[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I guess you missed the iSuppli report showing that the hardware+software+manufacturing cost of the iPhone is about $250?

I guess YOU missed the info that this doesn't include SG&A + Profit.
And the minor detail of Apple's economies of scale.

-t

[chabig]

Not to mention the fact that Apple's markup is pretty standard for any company. If we were going to chastise companies for marking up prices over and above their costs, then Microsoft would have to top the list, wouldn't it? How much does it cost to stamp a Vista CD?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by chabig 

Not to mention the fact that Apple's markup is pretty standard for any company. If we were going to chastise companies for marking up prices over and above their costs, then Microsoft would have to top the list, wouldn't it? How much does it cost to stamp a Vista CD?

Not much, but 5+ years of development tends to put you in the hole a little bit. But I agree, Apple's markups are very reasonable. There's a reason you pay a premium price for premium products.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by im_noahselby 

Both Fido & Rogers are GSM. One reason I prefer Fido over Rogers is because they offer superior student plans that cost less. I think if you are a student, it would be wise to consider Fido.

Like to add that in Vancouver Fido customers get better quality service too, besides the fact that Fido stuck in thousands of towers here for the City Fido plan they had before Rogers took over, Fido Customers get to use both the Fido network and Rogers network while Rogers phones are still stuck on Roger towers only right now.

Im not to worried about Rogers being the only one selling iPhones. I'm sure I will be able to find one from some one that wants to sell it not long after they come out here and I will just get the phone unlocked to use with my Fido Sim card.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Athens 

Like to add that in Vancouver Fido customers get better quality service too, besides the fact that Fido stuck in thousands of towers here for the City Fido plan they had before Rogers took over, Fido Customers get to use both the Fido network and Rogers network while Rogers phones are still stuck on Roger towers only right now.

It Toronto it seems different but I don't know if it has changed recently.

Rogers uses 900 and 850MHz while Fido only used 900MHz.

If you were on Fido and wanted to use the Rogers towers you had to pay an extra $5 a month while Rogers users got Fido towers for free.

Doesn't matter much here though as Rogers coverage is fantastic in or out of the city. Fido's isn't great out of Toronto.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

It Toronto it seems different but I don't know if it has changed recently.

Rogers uses 900 and 850MHz while Fido only used 900MHz.

If you were on Fido and wanted to use the Rogers towers you had to pay an extra $5 a month while Rogers users got Fido towers for free.

Doesn't matter much here though as Rogers coverage is fantastic in or out of the city. Fido's isn't great out of Toronto.

There is no such thing as a Fido network anymore in Toronto. They dismantled any Fido towers they weren't using AFAIK.

However, what areas get designated as long distance/roaming depends on the Fido plan you're on. For me, it's pretty much identical to Rogers subscribers in the same area.

I was under the impression the same was true in Vancouver. ie. No separate Fido network anymore there either, but I'm not sure. Or maybe they just haven't gotten around to doing it yet in Vancouver.

P.S. Now that I have an 850 phone, I notice no difference in voice reception in Toronto compared to when I had a 900 phone. The main difference now is I have EDGE much more often. EDGE support on 900 isn't very widespread on Rogers, but it's quite widespread on 850.

[icruise]

Yesterday was my birthday and I received what I am sad to say is a cheap knockoff of an iPhone as a present. Not only is it much bigger than the Apple version, but I was startled to discover that it's made entirely out of cake! Needless to say, I will be notifying Apple legal.



Seriously, though, my mom apparently asked a friend of hers to make this for me. I knew nothing about it. I thought it was kind of sweet (especially since I'm in my 30s now and haven't had a birthday cake like this in years).

[slugslugslug]

That is friggin' bonkers!

(and awesome.)

[icruise]

The iPhone thread has now been moved to the new iPod, iPhone & Apple TV forum. It would be good if we could keep general discussion of these products in that forum from now on. Thanks.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Yesterday was my birthday and I received what I am sad to say is a cheap knockoff of an iPhone as a present. Not only is it much bigger than the Apple version, but I was startled to discover that it's made entirely out of cake! Needless to say, I will be notifying Apple legal.



Seriously, though, my mom apparently asked a friend of hers to make this for me. I knew nothing about it. I thought it was kind of sweet (especially since I'm in my 30s now and haven't had a birthday cake like this in years).

That's great! What an awesome mom!

[::maroma::]

Just saw this from Sony Ericsson. As flip phones go, it pretty damn hot:

Translated version of http://www.sonyericsson.co.jp/product/au/w51s/index.html

[abbaZaba]

that phone seems classier than the iPhone. it looks really good.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

It is nice look for a flip but it has half the battery life of most other Sony phones.
Does it also have an external display to show the caller or just those cute little icons?

It also comes in Gold which is sorta neat but not for me.

[::maroma::]

I don't think it has an external display. But it has sweet LEDs at the bottom strip that flash and glow and stuff.

If I weren't holding out for an iPhone I'd probably look at this thing pretty seriously. I'm not a giant flip phone fan, but this one is my style.

[Captain Curt]

One critical feature that the iphone is missing (or hasn't be mentioned) is a port and/or access for a external cellular antenna. It can make a huge difference in remote areas.

[vmarks]

You don't need an external antenna - many phones don't have them - you need a cell repeater / amplifier.

Cellular Amplifier-Large Facility Applications-Cellular Solutions shows a few.

[Captain Curt]

For folks that do alot of traveling, a external cellular antenna is nice to have. I drive semi long haul. For me, a external cellular antenna is standard equipment. I'm hoping that Apple chooses a higher gain antenna for the iphones.

[Captain Curt]

vmarks, thanks for that link. It is nice to have more options. That will be what I go to if the iphone can't accomidate the external antenna.

[icruise]

Looks like my iPhone cake got dugg.

[Weezer]

youre on engadget too!

iPhone and Mac mini: cake editions - Engadget

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Yesterday was my birthday and I received what I am sad to say is a cheap knockoff of an iPhone as a present. Not only is it much bigger than the Apple version, but I was startled to discover that it's made entirely out of cake! Needless to say, I will be notifying Apple legal.



Seriously, though, my mom apparently asked a friend of hers to make this for me. I knew nothing about it. I thought it was kind of sweet (especially since I'm in my 30s now and haven't had a birthday cake like this in years).

Your mom and her friend are fantastic.

[Monica Litt]

Wow, this is amazing! I like it

[ink]

Saw this story today:

Readers Write About Symbian, OS X and the iPhone

OS X and iPhone don't have [the limitations that Symbian does]. It's one of the reasons I believe Steve Jobs is more or less right in iPhone being 5 years ahead of the competition--of course there is slight marketing hype as well, but not that much an exaggeration as the media and analysts think. Making high quality, advanced applications with a superior user experience will be fast and easy with OS X. On other platforms it's like competing with a small Fiat car in a Formula 1 race against Ferrari and Williams.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by ink 

Saw this story today:

Readers Write About Symbian, OS X and the iPhone

I think the software on the iPhone is being overlooked in the media so far. I know for a fact that the "user experience", which the software accounts for the majority of, is being overlooked in evaluating the iPhone's value.

Its just like the iPod, in that when it was first released, people looked at the pics of it and read the specs and said "meh". But when they got their hands on one, and used it, they fell in love. It will be the same with the iPhone.

[Sherman Homan]

icruise, that is fantastic! What about the candles!?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I had a symbian phone. The OS was horrible as it was slow as hell and the menu structure was bewildering. The Blackberry OS is super simple but it is fast and works.

I can't wait for the iPhone though.

[ink]

If I can run Terminal.app, I'm there.

[icruise]

I wouldn't bet on that.

[Dakar²]

As long as it runs activity monitor, I'm happy.

[AlbanianGenome]

so what I am understanding is the main complaint that people are having with the iPhone is that it is only EDGE and not 3G, what exactly is 3G anyhow? How is it different from EDGE, is 3G really necessary. I have T-Mobile right now, going month to month, waiting for my chance at the iPhone. As a consumer I am really rolling the dice by signing up with "the new AT&T" because its service is known to be sub-par. I have used the Sidekick 3(horrible for internet), Samsung T-629(not the greatest), and my fav of all available phones right now, the Blackberry Pearl(does the best job of internet and email that I have seen) The iPhone supposedly is not going to chop up the webpages however and make them look flawless, this alone is worth it, for it is something that I have always wanted. Will the iPhone have a Push based email? If so, this phone will be the best phone out there period. Part of me keeps saying to go and buy the Blackberry Pearl again for $199 with a 1 year contract and save the extra money, but having an iPhone is damn tempting considering no phones out there are that mac compatible, they all fall very short in that category. I tried Pocketmac with my Blackberry Pearl but it failed to sync. The temptation is there for the iPhone.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by AlbanianGenome 

so what I am understanding is the main complaint that people are having with the iPhone is that it is only EDGE and not 3G, what exactly is 3G anyhow? How is it different from EDGE, is 3G really necessary.

Well, 3G would be a lot faster, but it's not available everywhere. I don't think it's available in my area yet, so I guess I'm not overly upset about it, although from the standpoint of futureproofing it would have been nice.

The iPhone supposedly is not going to chop up the webpages however and make them look flawless, this alone is worth it, for it is something that I have always wanted.

It should be nice, although I'm not yet sure how well the browser will actually work in practice. When you're dealing with a small, relatively low-res screen, sometimes you actually *want* the format of web pages to be broken up. Otherwise, you have to do a lot of horizontal scrolling which makes reading pages a pain. Hopefully Apple has a good solution to this, but just going from the demo in the keynote I'm not entirely convinced. I've used the web on PDAs quite a bit, so I have a feeling for what works and what doesn't, and even using a PDA with a VGA screen results in more scrolling (or squinting) than is really preferable.

Will the iPhone have a Push based email?

The iPhone will at least support push email through Yahoo email, and a free account is apparently given to you with the purchase of the iPhone. How that will work in conjunction with existing email accounts, I'm not entirely sure. Can you just have them forward the mail to Yahoo, making any mail service (.Mac mail, for example) into a push email service?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by AlbanianGenome 

so what I am understanding is the main complaint that people are having with the iPhone is that it is only EDGE and not 3G, what exactly is 3G anyhow? How is it different from EDGE, is 3G really necessary.

I believe the main benefit of 3G is the data rate. Someone has quoted the differences in this thread, but the main difference I got out of it was that 3G is much faster than EDGE. But EDGE is the leader right now in the U.S. and Cingular's (ATT) network is EDGE based, if I'm not mistaken, which is why Apple chose it for this version of the iPhone.

Its a pretty safe bet that the European/Asian version will be 3G, as well as future U.S. versions.

[icruise]

By the way, I'm interested to hear what people think about an issue I brought up many pages back in the thread -- support for foreign languages. A large amount of the email I get is in Japanese, so at a bare minimum I would need to be able to read Japanese if not write it. I imagine other people are in similar situations with other languages (although Japanese is of course more complex than most in terms of its entry method).

Since every iPod is compatible with Japanese (and many other languages) anyway, I'm thinking that this won't be a problem. They have to have all the fonts on the device anyway, so hopefully support for displaying Japanese email and web pages will be built in. Of course, ideally it would support Japanese text entry as well, but it may be that we won't see that until it launches in Japan next year (?).

[AlbanianGenome]

let me pose this question as well, if you WILL NOT be purchasing an iPhone, why not, and what phone do you find to be the best out there for mac compatibility and for great web and email service. I would have to say any BlackBerry would take my vote. What phones do you guys use right now, or may use instead of the iPhone?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by AlbanianGenome 

let me pose this question as well, if you WILL NOT be purchasing an iPhone, why not, and what phone do you find to be the best out there for mac compatibility and for great web and email service. I would have to say any BlackBerry would take my vote. What phones do you guys use right now, or may use instead of the iPhone?

Sorry for the OT post, but I noticed you're from Mesa, which is where I grew up! I never see anyone from there, so I just had to say something. How's things in the neighborhood?

...ok, back on topic.

[AlbanianGenome]

lol, maroma. Actually I am over in Scottsdale now, but Mesa is keeping a name for itself these days. Mesa known for 5 children Mormon homes, dive bars, and of course lets not forget, it is the Meth Capital. So it is handling its business we could say, back on topic now, what cell phone are everyone using now?

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by AlbanianGenome 

lol, maroma. Actually I am over in Scottsdale now, but Mesa is keeping a name for itself these days. Mesa known for 5 children Mormon homes, dive bars, and of course lets not forget, it is the Meth Capital. So it is handling its business we could say, back on topic now, what cell phone are everyone using now?

Ahh, home.. I miss it so!

Anyways, currently I'm using a Motorola A630. It sucks. Terrible, horrible reception. Low battery life. Interface is as frustrating as you can get. I've been holding out for an iPhone. I was hoping they'd be available for purchase sooner than June, but oh well. I gotta use this POS for a few more months.

[AlbanianGenome]

ok so I am very tempted to pick up a new Moto RAZR V3T(Polished Black and Deep Purple) and sign a one year extension with T-Mobile. T-Mobile is exceptional, the iphone doesnt come out for at least another 4 months, and when it does you have to sign a 2-year nightmare contract with Cingular. Someone want to convince me I am making a bad choice right now(hint hint, please do) because even though the iPhone looks great, you will still be using a below average service, and a phone is still about being able to talk to people. Any feedback is welcome. The RAZR would be $149 with a 1 year, and the other option I thought about was the Blackberry Pearl, and that would be $199 with a 1 year.

[icruise]

You probably know the status of the various services in your area, but where I live Cingular has great service (I'm referring to reception and not customer service, but I haven't had any real problems with that either). It's been about a year and a half, but when I had T-Mobile I didn't get nearly as good a reception as I do with Cingular, and my parents (who have Sprint) also don't get as good a reception. For example, I can get 5 bars down in their basement on my RAZR, while my Dad's RAZR gets 1. His earlier phone (a low-end Samsung) didn't work in the basement at all. I guess my point is that for me, at least, having to go with Cingular is not really a negative at all.

As for the RAZR, I'd have to ask what it is you want from your phone. The RAZR is a nice enough phone as phones go, and I like its form factor. You can do some limited syncing and sending/receiving of files with a Mac via bluetooth. But in terms of functionality, I don't think you can even compare it to the iPhone. Don't even think of using the RAZR for music, and it really can't be used as a PDA very easily (the address book in mine, anyway, doesn't even store addresses -- just names, phone numbers, and email).

I'm also debating between the RAZR and the iPhone, but for different reasons. My parents have a deal with Sprint that would allow them to add a line to their account for me for only $9.99 a month. The local Sprint store sells the RAZR in conjunction with this deal for $29.99. Of course you are locked in for 2 years, but this very tempting for someone like me who really doesn't use a cell phone all that much (in terms of the number of minutes used a month).

On the one hand, I realize that I have little need for a mobile device such as the iPhone. I work at home and do almost all of my communications with clients via email. But I love PDAs and have been using them for years, and the iPhone seems to have the potential to be a really great PDA (lack of third-party applications notwithstanding). I'm just hoping that Cingular will have a semi-reasonable plan to go with the iPhone, but realistically it's hard for me to give up a $9.99 a month plan in favor of a plan that will be $50 or more of month.

[AlbanianGenome]

agreed. It really does depend on where you are living I must agree. However everyone I think needs to remember that apple will probably update the iPhone within 6 months or shortly thereafter to address bugs and even 3G standard for their phone. We need to remember how the first iPod was, it was good, but had a lot of tweaking to turn into the piece of work it is now. This will probably apply with the iPhone as well. I just signed up for another year with T-Mobile and got the amazing looking polished black and purple RAZR V3T. Now you see, I feel comfortable getting this phone because its polished, meaning, it has gone through many different revisions and its probably going to be one of the final razr's manufactured. I have no problem throwing a little over a hundred at this phone and waiting out the iPhone hype, and sitting patiently for iPhone 2 with 3G and all the little annoyances tweaked out. There is also something fun about saying you owned the first product in the phone category as well from Apple, just isnt that smart of an investment in my opinion. How many of you guys knew that the razr V3T also has a 8x digital zoom on the camera

[::maroma::]

I must say, the fact that Apple had to announce the iPhone so early before its available seems to be really hurting it. It has only been a month since its announcement and every single day there's a new Op-Ed piece or article explaining why it isn't all its cracked up to be. Or the many other phones that are being released that look just like it. I'm hearing people calling it the vaporPhone. Etc, etc.

Its a shame that Apple had to announce it so early. It seems to have only served to hurt its potential sales, as well as serving to give the competition plenty of time to come out with copies (albeit probably poorly done copies). The initial "wow" factor is going to be long dead by the time its available for purchase. And that's going to hurt.

I can only imagine what revelations are going to come out in the next 4 months. I assume all the discussions will slowly die down until its just about to be released. But still, there will be a ton of articles explaining why people shouldn't buy it. They might all be misguided, but they are still out there. And a lot of people believe what they read no matter where they read it.

Anyways, I must admit that I'm already having doubts creep into my head about buying one. I was on the hook, no doubt I was going to get one. But now I'm wondering. Damn the FCC, why can't they keep a damn secret?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I must say, the fact that Apple had to announce the iPhone so early before its available seems to be really hurting it. It has only been a month since its announcement and every single day there's a new Op-Ed piece or article explaining why it isn't all its cracked up to be. Or the many other phones that are being released that look just like it. I'm hearing people calling it the vaporPhone. Etc, etc.

Well, you've got a lot of people out there who don't want the iPhone to succeed. There are the usual Apple haters who just want it to fail because it's from Apple, and then there are the people in the multi-billion-dollar cell phone business (aside from Cingular) who obviously don't take kindly to Apple entering their turf.

That's not to say that everyone criticizing the iPhone fits into these categories. Since basically no one has been able to actually use the phone (and it's still in development), it's natural to focus on what we do know about it. We really don't have much information to go on -- basically just the keynote demos, a list of specs/features, and a price. And for people who don't have as much confidence in Apple as most of us, it's not hard to understand how they might be skeptical.

I have no real doubts about the iPhone per se, but I do have big doubts about whether I personally should get one. The biggest missing piece of the puzzle is the cost of the monthly service. I would not hesitate to buy the hardware for $599, but when a potentially large monthly fee and a minimum 2-year contract enters the picture you have to stop and think.

Originally Posted by AlbanianGenome 

How many of you guys knew that the razr V3T also has a 8x digital zoom on the camera

Digital zoom is meaningless, since you can get the exact same image by just cropping and enlarging on the computer. The camera on the RAZR is also pretty bad in general. Of course, I don't really expect the iPhone's camera to be a whole lot better.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Well, you've got a lot of people out there who don't want the iPhone to succeed. There are the usual Apple haters who just want it to fail because it's from Apple, and then there are the people in the multi-billion-dollar cell phone business (aside from Cingular) who obviously don't take kindly to Apple entering their turf.

That's not to say that everyone criticizing the iPhone fits into these categories. Since basically no one has been able to actually use the phone (and it's still in development), it's natural to focus on what we do know about it. We really don't have much information to go on -- basically just the keynote demos, a list of specs/features, and a price. And for people who don't have as much confidence in Apple as most of us, it's not hard to understand how they might be skeptical.

I have no real doubts about the iPhone per se, but I do have big doubts about whether I personally should get one. The biggest missing piece of the puzzle is the cost of the monthly service. I would not hesitate to buy the hardware for $599, but when a potentially large monthly fee and a minimum 2-year contract enters the picture you have to stop and think.

Yeah that is true. Most of what I'm reading is conjecture, so I guess I shouldn't take it terribly seriously. I think a lot of my doubts are about price, and like you I'm more worried about Cingular's rates rather than the price of the iPhone itself. I don't mind the $600. I hope Cingular understands this and offers a discounted rate or something. I think a lot of people are on the same fence. They love what they've seen from the iPhone, and can convince themselves to pay the price for it. But when they think about the total cost, including monthly payments for the service, it scares them. Of course this is based on their current rates, but still. I hope Cingular releases their plan soon. But I suspect they'll wait until just before its released.

[icruise]

This video posted on TUAW is interesting, not so much for what it shows but because of the reasons behind its creation. Unless I miss my guess, they were trying to show that Windows Mobile can do everything ("and more") that the iPhone can do, but in my eyes they only ended up showing exactly what's wrong with the current batch of smart phones. Look how many stylus taps it takes to do some of these things. Look at that interface. (I'll ignore for the moment that the phone in the video only has 128MB of flash memory.) This video is a classic example of people "not getting" the iPhone. It's not about who has the most features, it's about who has put them together in a way that makes them easy to use.

[f1000]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

I believe the main benefit of 3G is the data rate. Someone has quoted the differences in this thread, but the main difference I got out of it was that 3G is much faster than EDGE. But EDGE is the leader right now in the U.S. and Cingular's (ATT) network is EDGE based, if I'm not mistaken, which is why Apple chose it for this version of the iPhone.

It's more than just about data; 3G phone calls are noticeably clearer as well. In any case, Apple will probably put out a 3G/3.5G phone within a matter of months after the initial release of the 2.5G iPhone. No sense in crying over spilt milk.

[f1000]

Cingular is already operating HSDPA (3.5G) at 3.6 Mbps. Even if introduced now, the iPhone would have data transfer speeds of less than a tenth of the network's full potential.

[f1000]

I see some misunderstanding about Cingular's network on this page. To recap, Cingular runs a 3.5G HSDPA-enhanced UMTS network. Many newer Cingular phones now include 3.5G capabilities, which can offer data transfer rates of up to 3.6 Mbps.

EDGE is an older, fallback technology typically described as 2.5G. In areas with weak or no UMTS/HSDPA coverage, Cingular's network will drop back down to EDGE.

Cingular has activated 3.5G in most major metro areas, including Chicago. Just in the past few months, for example, I've been able to use it in at least nine states. Go to the following webpage, zoom down to city level, and check mark "Show 3G Coverage" to see if 3G is in your area.

Even if it were to be put on sale today, the iPhone, being an EDGE-only phone, would only be able to transfer data at roughly a tenth of the network's speed (0.236 Mbps versus 3.6 Mbps); yet, iPhone users would be charged the same amount for unlimited data usage as 3.5G phone users. Even worse, the iPhone's unusually large screen and enhanced browser/multimedia capabilities practically scream for bandwidth, so the omission of a not-so-cutting-edge technology already incorporated into products by Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, LG, HTC, and others is surprising.

EDGE (2.5G) -> UMTS (3G) -> UMTS/HSDPA (3.5G)

[mduell]

Originally Posted by f1000 

I see some misunderstanding about Cingular's network on this page. To recap, Cingular runs a 3.5G HSDPA-enhanced UMTS network. Many newer Cingular phones now include 3.5G capabilities, which can offer data transfer rates of up to 3.6 Mbps.

EDGE is an older, fallback technology typically described as 2.5G. In areas with weak or no UMTS/HSDPA coverage, Cingular's network will drop back down to EDGE.

<nit-pick>
EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards. It also enhances the circuit data mode called HSCSD, increasing the data rate of this service.

Whether EDGE is 2G or 3G depends on implementation. While Class 3 and below EDGE devices clearly are not 3G, class 4 and above devices perform at a higher bandwidth than other technologies conventionally considered as 3G (such as 1xRTT). Because of the variability, EDGE is generally classified as 2.75G network technology. (source)
</nit-pick>

I'm excited about 4G (WiMAX and friends), which will finally allow the same performance as most fixed broadband connections (4-8Mbps).

[f1000]

Originally Posted by mduell 

<nit-pick>
EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network, and has been accepted by the ITU as part of the IMT-2000 family of 3G standards. It also enhances the circuit data mode called HSCSD, increasing the data rate of this service.

Whether EDGE is 2G or 3G depends on implementation. While Class 3 and below EDGE devices clearly are not 3G, class 4 and above devices perform at a higher bandwidth than other technologies conventionally considered as 3G (such as 1xRTT). Because of the variability, EDGE is generally classified as 2.75G network technology. (source)
</nit-pick>

I've been using EDGE since its rollout in the U.S., and for "Masters of the Universe" types to change convention just to act more in the know is migraine-inducing. 2.5G was a qualitative and not a quantitative way to differentiate EDGE from GPRS and UMTS. Going by the Wiki-Nazi's reasoning, 7.2 Mbps HSDPA isn't 3.5G, it's more like 20G or something...shut up already!

Seriously, labeling EDGE as 3G is simply an attempt by U.S. providers to make their networks sound more advanced than they really are. Marketers can call EDGE whatever they want, but by any name it is SLOW; just ask the Japanese. Cingular is currently selling the Moto 3xx, a 3.6 Mbps HSDPA phone, and was supposed to have upgraded its network to 7.2 Mbps HSDPA back in January; hence, Apple has introduced a phone that will only be able to take advantage of 1/30th of Cingular's current network. Who knows how much faster Cingular's (AT&T's) network will be by June?

I'm excited about 4G (WiMAX and friends), which will finally allow the same performance as most fixed broadband connections (4-8Mbps).

I'll be excited about it when I can actually sign up for service. For now, Cingular's soon-to-be 7.2 Mbps HSDPA network is the fastest game in town.

[::maroma::]

I'm excited for 10G. Screw all this 2.5G, 3G, 4G crap. I'll never get any phone until they are 10G! Anything else is worthless!!

Seriously though, what's with this stuff? I never understood the philosophy some people have about waiting as long as it takes to get the next best iteration in a particular technology. The thing about technology is that it never ever stops advancing. And you'll never ever have the end all be all of any technology. When I need a new phone, I get one. When I need a new computer, I get one. Those of you who are complaining that about the iPhone's technologies not being what you want, well then you don't need it, so don't get it. Why argue about who's smarter for waiting, or whether or not everyone else is wasting their money on something that isn't for you. Some people need a new phone, and will get it when its released. Others don't need a new phone so they won't get it. That's it. The end.

All this bickering is so tiring and pointless.