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Parky · Jan 28, 2003, 09:38 AM

Apple site has the details, new 1.42 Duals !!

Gene Jockey · 09:48 AM

Yeah. Didn't see that coming this morning.

[edit]

Looks like a speed bump, w/ FW800 and BlueTooth thrown in as well. No new mobo design it seems yet

But they're cheaper, and fast, so that's a plus...wonder what G4 is in the 1.42 Ghz models?

--Josh

icruise · Jan 28, 2003, 09:44 AM

And the new displays are looking pretty good too.

scottiB · Jan 28, 2003, 09:46 AM

$1499 model is a single G4. If I were in the market, I'd be looking for dual-867 closeouts.

Displays are a good deal, though: at least the 20 and 23 inchers.

Shaktai · 09:55 AM

They caught everyone off guard. Didn't expect this until next week and then I figured we would see iMac upgrades first. I love it though.

Oh, and much better price points across the Board on PowerMacs and displays.

Jan 28, 2003, 09:52 AM

The entry level model is back down to one processor, and a 133MHz bus. I can see the single processor, but why the slower bus?

Scoo · Jan 28, 2003, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by scottiB:
$1499 model is a single G4. If I were in the market, I'd be looking for dual-867 closeouts.

It's f$%king embarrassing. That machine should be a grand, then it would only cost twice as much as a twice as fast PC. Oh well, at least the portable lineup has some semblance of value to it. Bah, this 970 chip has better be good.

Parky · Jan 28, 2003, 09:54 AM

Some nice additions :-

Firewire 800
Bluetooth enabled or included
SuperDrive 4 speed
Updated Video cards

and a price drop !!!

TallGuyGT · Jan 28, 2003, 09:56 AM

How can we tell if these G4's can make use of the DDR bandwith? Seems like increasing the MHz w/o doing anything to the bus won't get us as much.

scottiB · Jan 28, 2003, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by hayesk:
The entry level model is back down to one processor, and a 133MHz bus. I can see the single processor, but why the slower bus?

IIRC, the dual-867s were 133mhz, too.

At least my 933 didn't take too much of a value hit.

Krusty · Jan 28, 2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by scottiB:
At least my 933 didn't take too much of a value hit.

some poor bast#rd's 23 HD display did though. OUCH!! .. its only 57% of its former price.

legacyb4 · Jan 28, 2003, 10:02 AM

No kidding, talk about about throwing user expectations into a tailspin!

Dual-867 with good overall performance but minus the bells and whistles or a new single 1Ghz with bells and whistles?

This is going to be a scramble for the perfect fit...

Originally posted by scottiB:
$1499 model is a single G4. If I were in the market, I'd be looking for dual-867 closeouts.

Displays are a good deal, though: at least the 20 and 23 inchers.

rm199 · Jan 28, 2003, 10:03 AM

I have been holding off an upgrade for 6 months it is like a huge weight is off the shoulders - this is the spec that will make me buy.

RM

RealMadrid · Jan 28, 2003, 10:05 AM

Oh! nice updates.

The only negative again is the fact that Apple is having extreme problems to gain more processor speed. Is it really necessary to make them 1.42 GHz? Couldn�t it just be 1.4. I mean they take it to the limit. If they are selling 1.42 it means they were unable to make 1.43. Hopefully that will change with the 970.

I like the new 20'' display. Also interesting to see what the noise level of the new G4's will be.

Regards.

scottiB · Jan 28, 2003, 10:05 AM

My only (non-solicited) advice: after using Jaguar on my dual-800, I'll never go back to single processors on a tower. Ever. EVER!

YMMV

Parky · Jan 28, 2003, 10:05 AM

Nice that's it's not just a speed bump, might be other things there that will motivate buyers.

Looks like a great combination buy now. Dual 1.42 plus the 23 inch display. What value !!

Jonesy · Jan 28, 2003, 10:06 AM

Not bad but how cheap are they? 256Mb RAM! and they made it "Bluetooth Ready" Pay more for a Bluetooth connectivity module! Why can't they just stick it on the motherboard like the new PowerBook. Surely these things can't cost that much.

And I just noticed. They took the Superdrive out of the middle of the range as well!

arnette · Jan 28, 2003, 10:13 AM

I like Apple's new "Spring-it-on-ya-no-rumor-leaks approach. Granted, I'd be pissed if I had just bought a PowerMac, but this makes things much for fun.

I just checked the Apple website last night around 2am EST... no indicators then. Cool.

DaedalusDX · Jan 28, 2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Jonesy:
Not bad but how cheap are they? 256Mb RAM! and they made it "Bluetooth Ready" Pay more for a Bluetooth connectivity module! Why can't they just stick it on the motherboard like the new PowerBook. Surely these things can't cost that much.

And I just noticed. They took the Superdrive out of the middle of the range as well!

Bluetooth standard makes alot less sense on a desktop machine than on the Powerbooks.

on the powerbooks, you can use the built in bluetooth to send files to other laptops nearby with bluetooth with ease... not only that, but you can use the bluetooth option to connect to the internet through a cell phone (slowly, but still connected nonetheless).

A desktop would be nice to sync contacts and such... i have the dlink on my powermac, but i admit that making it standard is unecessary. $50 isn't too much to pay for a bluetooth adapter.

rm199 · Jan 28, 2003, 10:20 AM

I'm wondering if I should order a 20inch along with a new PM. I already have a formac 2010, I wonder what they would look like next to each other.

RM

Pepi Picklefoot · Jan 28, 2003, 10:26 AM

And for those that have been waiting for the 9700, it'll be available soon.

DaedalusDX · Jan 28, 2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Jonesy:
And I just noticed. They took the Superdrive out of the middle of the range as well!

Interesting, yes... If i were to get one of these machines, i'd probably get the middle model with the stock combo drive... and then go out and buy a dvd burner and install it myself... then i'd have dual drive action.

Apple wants $200 to upgrade the combo drive to the 4x superdrive... but $200 is close to the going price on the 4x DVR-A05 anyway...

In fact, on a hot deal, i put a 4x DVR-A05 in my current Powermac for just $180.

Oh, and Apple's prices on 4x media stink!

DaedalusDX · Jan 28, 2003, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by rm199:
I'm wondering if I should order a 20inch along with a new PM. I already have a formac 2010, I wonder what they would look like next to each other.

RM

It looks like the new 20 cinema display is a widescreen aspect, if that means anything to you...

However, it has less on screen area than your current formac 2010... 1680 x 1050 compared to the formacs 1600 x 1200.

That being said, the formac is also $400 more... dunno about the quality though. I'm sure your monitor is still very drool worthy.

Eug · Jan 28, 2003, 10:48 AM

Where are people seeing the 4X SuperDrive? It says 2X in the specs.

Anyways, this upgrade is not overly impressive, even compared to my relatively conservative prediction.

But if the low-end "pro" machine is 1 GHz, I wonder what the iMac is going to be.

DaedalusDX · Jan 28, 2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Eug:
Where are people seeing the 4X SuperDrive? It says 2X in the specs.

Anyways, this upgrade is not overly impressive, even compared to my relatively conservative prediction.

But if the low-end "pro" machine is 1 GHz, I wonder what the iMac is going to be.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/superdrive.html

It does say 4x. It would make no sense for Apple to release the 2x drive in anything now... since the 4x DVR-A05 is so cheap now.

*Mhz · Jan 28, 2003, 10:52 AM

I saw no info on OS 9 bootability. Are these the first macs with no classic support?

Eug · Jan 28, 2003, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by DaedalusDX:
http://www.apple.com/powermac/superdrive.html

It does say 4x. It would make no sense for Apple to release the 2x drive in anything now... since the 4x DVR-A05 is so cheap now.

OK thanks.

It seems the Canadian specs have not yet been updated. Still says there. In fact, it still says max 1.25 GHz.

andreas_g4 · Jan 28, 2003, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by *Mhz:
I saw no info on OS 9 bootability. Are these the first macs with no classic support?

What is OS 9? Is it new? Have I to buy one?

Seriously, no. The new Powerbook lack OS 9 bootability.

andreas_g4 · Jan 28, 2003, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by *Mhz:
I saw no info on OS 9 bootability. Are these the first macs with no classic support?

Oh, I didn't read carefully. In this particular case, you should not say "classic support", since hopefully this will last a few years more. In this case it is simply OS 9 bootability. Classic is the OS 9 environment in Mac OS X.

AGE · Jan 28, 2003, 11:11 AM

Why did apple keep the SP Ighz at 133 bus?
There is absolutely no price difference to them if they made it 167mhz.

I wonder how the 1.42 DP goes against a SP 1.8 AMD in DV editing and 3D appz?
And why does apple push the fact they use 333ddr when in fact the g4 cant handle ddr.
The more you read the specs the less exciting it seems..
Price drops are great but I feel the SP 1ghz is worth less.

gumby5647 · Jan 28, 2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by RealMadrid:
Oh! nice updates.

The only negative again is the fact that Apple is having extreme problems to gain more processor speed. Is it really necessary to make them 1.42 GHz? Couldn�t it just be 1.4. I mean they take it to the limit. If they are selling 1.42 it means they were unable to make 1.43. Hopefully that will change with the 970.

I like the new 20'' display. Also interesting to see what the noise level of the new G4's will be.

Regards.

That's just the way the bus multipliers work out.

166.66666666 * 7.5= 1.25GHz
* 8.0= 1.33GHz
* 8.5= 1.42Ghz
* 9.0= 1.50Ghz

dfiler · Jan 28, 2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by AGE:
Why did apple keep the SP Ighz at 133 bus?
There is absolutely no price difference to them if they made it 167mhz.

Gee, they must not have thought of that. What a great idea. Has anyone called apple to let them know they could give us faster computers for free?

*Mhz · Jan 28, 2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by AGE:
Why did apple keep the SP Ighz at 133 bus?
There is absolutely no price difference to them if they made it 167mhz.

Apple sells computers not upgrades. There is not a significant benefit of the faster bus with a single G4. They might have some old mobos still in stock and they are trying to get rid of them.

Westfoto · Jan 28, 2003, 11:24 AM

This is going to be a welcome upgrade. In % the speed bump is significant. Think about it last year we still had 533 as a MHz choice.

This is nice

I like that monitor!

Krusty · Jan 28, 2003, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by AGE:
Why did apple keep the SP Ighz at 133 bus?
There is absolutely no price difference to them if they made it 167mhz.

To get people to move upstrram in the product line. If they made the low end too good, people might seriously consider buying it instead of the mid range. As it stands right now:
$1499 PM = prosumers who might have bought an iMac but wanted the expandability and monitor choice of a tower. I bet the next highend iMac will roughly match the specs of this machine.

365 · Jan 28, 2003, 11:31 AM

These machines are just another example of how good Apple and Steve Jobs are becoming at turd polishing.

I don't see anything exciting, slightly faster processor's, superdrive's and Firewire 800 WOW!!

All I can say is it's good job that no one else in the computer industry knows how to build a decent operating system or Apple would be in deep trouble.

conky · Jan 28, 2003, 11:41 AM

How can we tell if these G4's can make use of the DDR bandwith? Seems like increasing the MHz w/o doing anything to the bus won't get us as much

=============================

Nope they cannot take advantage of DDR yet. That will happen with the G5 or whatever comes out.

asaturno · Jan 28, 2003, 11:46 AM

I'd say it's a pretty good upgrade, especially if you look
at the midrange model. You get a 25% speed increase (dual 1 -> 1.25)
AND a $500 price decrease ($2499 -> $1999), plus Firewire 800.

It will be interesting to see the price decreases for the "old"
models.

Fdanna · Jan 28, 2003, 11:48 AM

RATS, I was all set to buy after I heard about the updates but I see that Apple dropped their 6 months interest free stuff. Hmm... not that I can't afford the system but it would have been nice to spread out the pain on my wallet with no additional penalty.

365 · Jan 28, 2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by asaturno:
I'd say it's a pretty good upgrade, especially if you look
at the midrange model. You get a 25% speed increase (dual 1 -> 1.25)
AND a $500 price decrease ($2499 -> $1999), plus Firewire 800.

It will be interesting to see the price decreases for the "old"
models.

The dual 1.25 as lost its standard Superdrive on the UK Apple store,

Eug · Jan 28, 2003, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by AGE:
Why did apple keep the SP Ighz at 133 bus?
There is absolutely no price difference to them if they made it 167mhz.

Probably it's just to push people up the line, but one difference is that 333 DDR (PC2700) costs more than 266 DDR (PC2100).

asaturno · Jan 28, 2003, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by asaturno:
I'd say it's a pretty good upgrade, especially if you look
at the midrange model. You get a 25% speed increase (dual 1 -> 1.25)
AND a $500 price decrease ($2499 -> $1999), plus Firewire 800.

It will be interesting to see the price decreases for the "old"
models.

Oops..forgot that the Superdrive was on the "old" midrange,
and not on the "new" midrange, so thats $200 more. But it
is now 4x. Still the midrange is a great value I'd say.

CheesePuff · Jan 28, 2003, 12:16 PM

The new SuperDrives are much faster... 4x DVD-R, 16x CD-R, 32x CD-ROM Read, 8x DVD-ROM read.

And the ComboDrives read DVDs at 12x, burn CD-Rs at 32x, etc.

Surfer · Jan 28, 2003, 12:17 PM

Some info about the new PM's:

http://www.macgo.net/forum/showthrea...4521#post14521

365 · Jan 28, 2003, 12:25 PM

So do you think a $300 drop in price for a machine with a processor that was lagging behind even when it was introduced 6 months ago is good value.

I'm not going to switch and the alternative to Apple is unthinkable for me but blind faith is not healthy for anyone and there's a lot of that goes on on these forums. Apple are letting us down and the fact that they can't offer any significant performance improvements is leading to a situation where they are starting to offend their loyal customers, it's as though they throw us a minimal upgrade to say here you go we've still not got anything decent speed wise so you'll have to have this old crap with a few new but insignificant features.

How angry would you be if you bought a 23" Cinema Display last week when today for around $500 more you could get TWO for the price of your one!! I would be steaming in fact I am and I haven't got one.

TimmyDee51 · Jan 28, 2003, 12:29 PM

Boy am I glad that I got my dual 867 when I did. The lower price on the 17" would have been nice, but only one processor on the low end? I'm sitting pretty here.

Eug · 12:42 PM

17" PowerBook 1 GHz

� 1GHz PowerPC G4
� 167 MHz Bus
� 512MB DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
� ATI Radeon 9000 Mobility
� 60GB Ultra ATA drive
� SuperDrive (2X ??? DVD-R/CD-RW)
� AirPort Extreme Card
� 56K internal modem
� Backlit Keyboard
� Built-in Speakers
� 17-inch 1440x900 TFT Display
� Firewire 800
� Built-in BlueTooth

US$3299

17" PowerMac 1 GHz

� 1GHz PowerPC G4
� 133 MHz Bus
� 512MB DDR SDRAM - 1 DIMM
� ATI Radeon 9000 Pro w/64MB DDR
� 60GB Ultra ATA drive
� SuperDrive (4X DVD-R/CD-RW)
� AirPort Extreme Card
� 56K internal modem
� Apple Pro Keyboard
� Apple Pro Speakers
� 17" Studio Display (1280x1024)
� Firewire 800
� Bluetooth Module

US$2756

Thus, for a little over $500 more, you a very similar computer to the low end PowerMac in a laptop config.

Yep, this is the year of the laptop (at least according to Apple).

asaturno · Jan 28, 2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by 365:
So do you think a $300 drop in price for a machine with a processor that was lagging behind even when it was introduced 6 months ago is good value.

I mean that if you wanted a PowerMac midrange model, you get more
for your money with the new model versus the old. Apple realizes that a faster, more advanced processor is needed and it will
come when it is ready. But this upgrade is, as I see it, a
"value for your dollar" upgrade (when compared against the previous
models, NOT pentium pc's).

hadocon · Jan 28, 2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by scottiB:
My only (non-solicited) advice: after using Jaguar on my dual-800, I'll never go back to single processors on a tower. Ever. EVER!

YMMV

I hear you on that one brother. My Summer 2001 dual 800 is still going strong my friends. I added bluetooth to make my machine right up there with the new ones! Sad thing is that I would feel better if my mac was made insignificant in regards to the power of the new machine, but we are in a sad state here people when an approaching 2 year old computer is still very competitive with the current machine.

970 had better work out. I want mine dual please Steve!

dfiler · Jan 28, 2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by 365:
...
Apple are letting us down and the fact that they can't offer any significant performance improvements ...
they are starting to offend their loyal customers
...
How angry would you be if you bought a 23" Cinema Display last week when today for around $500 more you could get TWO for the price of your one!!
...

'Offend'? So because a company is unable to buy better parts from a supplier, you find that offensive? You think apple is happy with their current CPU suppliers? It doesn't seem to have registered with you that Apple is investing tens of millions of dollars in switching to a new CPU... yet because they can't buy what doesn't exist, you're 'offended'.

'Angry'? Again your reaction is a bit over the top. First you want them to offer better price/performance or else you get 'offended'. Next, you get 'angry' when they do release something better.

Whew... made it through my whole reply without flaming. That was difficult.