[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Well considering it has a switch to turn off the ringer I think it would be pretty strange if it didn't have a vibrate feature.

Sure enough but it also has a camera and no sort of flash whatsoever. Even cheap assed Camera phones have a LED as a flash.

[icruise]

My RAZR doesn't.

[Chuckit]

My PEBL doesn't. None of my friends' phones (LG, Motorola, Nokia) do either.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

My PEBL doesn't. None of my friends' phones (LG, Motorola, Nokia) do either.

OMG what about the Sanyo or Samsung!? Surly somebody knows somebody who has a phone with no flash from one of them also!

I'll try not to notice my cheap Sony Phone from a year ago with the LED flash or the current models for $400 (no contract) that have real flashes.

That aside does a $600 iPhone fall into the same category?

[Stogieman]

Too bad the camera is on the opposite side of the the screen. They could of used the LCD display as a flash just like Photo Booth.

[King Bob On The Cob]

The Wii's controller vibrates.

Sony just was trying to justify to it's fanboys the fact it lost that lawsuit and can no longer use the vibrate feature.

And my Samsung doesn't have a flash. (Something to do with preventing Japanese and their upskirt fetishes, perhaps?)

[icruise]

Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob 

The Wii's controller vibrates.

Sony just was trying to justify to it's fanboys the fact it lost that lawsuit and can no longer use the vibrate feature.

Not sure who you're responding to there, but I think they probably could have used rumble if they had wanted to pay for it. Apparently they didn't think it was worth it (they were wrong, BTW).

[turtle777]

Flash on a camera phone ?

Never seen one.

-t

[butterfly0fdoom]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Flash on a camera phone ?

Never seen one.

-t

A lot of Sony Ericsson non-flip cameraphones are designed to look like cameras on the back, and that includes having a flash.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Flash on a camera phone ?

Never seen one.

-t

Sony k790

[macfantn]

my s710 has an led flash but it is useless makes a good flashlight though.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by macfantn 

my s710 has an led flash but it is useless makes a good flashlight though.

My Pearl uses an LED one also so did my old w600i. The SE k790 uses some sort of "real" flash and it works damn well. Eug can fill you in on the details.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Flash on a camera phone ?

Never seen one.

-t

Take a look at the SE 790. Works extremely well.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by icruise 

This page has estimated the total cost of iPhone ownership to be $1936 for the first year. Of course, the second year is less, since you've already paid for the phone, but by their figures it would cost you $3,232 over the 2 year contract.

Now first let me state that I find this overly sensationalistic, since we don't know what Cingular's iPhone plans will be, they've chosen a pretty expensive voice plan (my $40-a-month plan has way more minutes than I actually need) and they act like these fees are somehow unique to the iPhone when even the cheapest cell phone ends up being pretty expensive over the course of a couple of years.

But it did get me thinking. Let's look at a best case scenario and say that Cingular has a $50-a-month plan that combines unlimited internet with a reasonable amount of voice minutes (this may in fact be unrealistically low). Over the course of 2 years, the 8GB iPhone would still cost you nearly $2,000 when you figure in taxes and other fees. That's quite a bit of money and I'm not sure I can justify it. Admittedly, my current plan is costing me more than $500 a year, but I was thinking of changing over to a cheaper plan when my contract ends in a few months since I don't really use that many minutes. In short I'm not sure if I should get an iPhone or not.

It really is too bad that they don't have something that has the iPod/Internet/PDA features of the iPhone without the phone itself. I could see future iPods fitting in this category, though.

What's sad is that in America no cellphone provider charges you by the minute (at a normal rate), like say.. 0.5 cents a minute. No "reduced times" or anything, just simply 0.5 cents a minute at all times no matter where you are in the country. And then probably you'd pay like 3 dollars a month for having the phone number.

This is the kind of deal you can get all over Europe and it is mainstream. Why do American cell companies force you to buy an allotted number of minutes for a rip-off monthly fee?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by macintologist 

What's sad is that in America no cellphone provider charges you by the minute (at a normal rate), like say.. 0.5 cents a minute. No "reduced times" or anything, just simply 0.5 cents a minute at all times no matter where you are in the country. And then probably you'd pay like 3 dollars a month for having the phone number.

This is the kind of deal you can get all over Europe and it is mainstream. Why do American cell companies force you to buy an allotted number of minutes for a rip-off monthly fee?

There are pay-as-you-go plans in America. That's what my sister has. It's not really such a great deal, though, much like buying a bottle of Coke is a worse deal than buying a box at Costco.

[- - e r i k - -]

Here in Australia pay-as-you-go are a much better deal than plans for some reason (or at least was a couple of years back - it might have evened out by now). And with automatic top-up it's just as convenient as plans as you never run out of credit.

[BRussell]

Colbert on the iPhone.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Colbert on the iPhone.

I liked this one better: YouTube - Conan - iPhone Commercial

[TETENAL]

This one is the best: YouTube - iPhone spanks Microsoft

[voodoo]

Americans understand Craig Ferguson... or are the just laughing nervously at his accent? Ah the mysteries of life.

V

[icruise]

I don't watch TV so I've never heard of him before, but I think people can understand him just fine. I thought his act was total crap though. Not funny at all. Kind of like a parody of a stand up comedian.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Americans understand Craig Ferguson... or are the just laughing nervously at his accent?

I actually can't understand Scottish people a lot of the time, but Craig Ferguson is all right. Pretty funny, too, though that's not his best routine ever.

[Dark Helmet]

The funny thing is the iPhone was right under our noses for the past year with the multi-touch screen and proximity sensor patents that were discovered.

Apple Multipoint Touchscreen at hrmpf.com

Nobody really put it all together though as we were all thinking it was only for the widescreen video iPod.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Americans understand Craig Ferguson... or are the just laughing nervously at his accent? Ah the mysteries of life.

V

Are you saying a Spaniard watching a Scott on American comedy TV understands him better? You're more arrogant than I thought.

[Fdanna]

I'm not sure if anyone has touched on this yet, but Cingular currently requires that you purchase a data plan with any of their smart phones. That's an added monthly cost I certainly don't want.

So think about this:

$600 for the phone.
$40/month for voice
$20-30/month for data
Locked in for two years

That means in two years, you will have spent a minimum of $2400 for the privilege of owning an Apple iPhone. Now add in text messages and times when you go over your plan minutes. Eeek...

This doesn't seem very appetizing at all. I don't want the lousy data plan, Wi-Fi is good enough for me, but if current Cingular policy holds, you MUST buy the data plan with any smart phone.

Not to mention if you travel to other countries you can't use their local SIM chips and Cingular charges $2/min for international usage.

I think I just talked myself out of buying one.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Fdanna 

IThat means in two years, you will have spent a minimum of $2400 for the privilege of owning an Apple iPhone.

I don't know how it works in the US but here in Canada the contract is ONLY for the minutes plan and not anything else including the data, voicemail, texting etc. That leaves you free to change or cancel anything other than the minutes to go with current plans or promotions. You can also change your minutes plan at any time to anything cheaper with more minutes and sometimes even less minutes and less cost.

On top of that the MAX a carrier can charge you for early cancelation is $200.

So in Canada I can get a $500 phone on a 3 year contract with whatever minutes etc, change my mind the next week and want to can it all and only have to pay another $200. Plus you get to keep the heavily discounted phone.

I also don't see how the iPhone is an exception to other phones out there that offer the same or close.

[Dakar²]

Why would you get an iPhone without data, voicemail, and texting?

'Only' $200?

[Gossamer]

Ferguson has shown himself to be a fan of the iPod before, I think somebody posted a video of him making fun of the Zune a while back. Most of the routine wasn't that great but the last part was. A combination cell phone and iron!

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Why would you get an iPhone without data, voicemail, and texting?

'Only' $200?

For phone, music and video I would think. Many people I know don't have voicemail and Texting has become so cheap it is included free in most packages.

Point is $200 is not much to get out of a 3 year contact especially when you got a iPhone for $600 when without a contact it would probably cost you at least $800.

[Hi I'm Ben]

Originally Posted by Fdanna 

I'm not sure if anyone has touched on this yet, but Cingular currently requires that you purchase a data plan with any of their smart phones. That's an added monthly cost I certainly don't want.

So think about this:

$600 for the phone.
$40/month for voice
$20-30/month for data
Locked in for two years

That means in two years, you will have spent a minimum of $2400 for the privilege of owning an Apple iPhone. Now add in text messages and times when you go over your plan minutes. Eeek...

This doesn't seem very appetizing at all. I don't want the lousy data plan, Wi-Fi is good enough for me, but if current Cingular policy holds, you MUST buy the data plan with any smart phone.

Not to mention if you travel to other countries you can't use their local SIM chips and Cingular charges $2/min for international usage.

I think I just talked myself out of buying one.

I think this is a bit misleading... For one, you're going to pay for cell service one way or another. You shouldn't factor in that $40 per month because a majority of users ALREADY pay $40+ a month for their cell service. I've had 3 smart phones on cingular which I did not use their data plan, the most recent being the Nokia e62. Often times Cingular will offer additional rebates if you sign up for their data plan for at least 30 days, and this I've done in the past.

To me I see this as $25 a month more for the data plan. I'll sell my current phone to eat some of the cost. So $300 is really what I look at as the cost of ownership. I don't factor in the iPhone itself as ownership costs... I'd have spent that $500 dollars on a phone more than likely anyway.

The other thing to remember is that $300 of internet costs is really only applying to people who choose to use it, or don't already have it. If you already have a data plan with cingular, and already own a smart phone... all you're doing is buying a new phone.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I don't know how it works in the US but here in Canada ...

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that with Cingular.

-t

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Are you saying a Spaniard watching a Scott on American comedy TV understands him better? You're more arrogant than I thought.

Heh, asking a question and answering it yourself. That's not arrogant

An American or a Spaniard, yes they could understand a Scot well enough. Americans or Spaniards, no.

You understand less than I thought.

V

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that with Cingular.

-t

So how does it work exactly? Is the contract the whole package including data? What is the early cancelation fee?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

So how does it work exactly? Is the contract the whole package including data? What is the early cancelation fee?

I'm not sure about the early cancelation fee, but the unbundeling fo the data plan apparantly doesn't work.

Plus, free texting is not as common in the US as it seems to be in Canada.

I bet your ass that Cingular is going to milk the iPhone customers.

-t

[Hi I'm Ben]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

So how does it work exactly? Is the contract the whole package including data? What is the early cancelation fee?

No, contracts typically only follow minutes. You can switch out features at no extention to your contract.

"Features" being.... internet, text messaging, 7pm nights, call forwarding, international dialing, etc

EDIT: and the early cancellation fee will be the same for everyone, iPhone or not ($200 for 2 years left, $175(150?) for one year). I highly doubt cingular will treat this phone any differently than another smart phone.

[icruise]

There was some talk a few pages ago about whether the internet capabilities of the iPhone could be usable without an active cellular account. Are there any other wi-fi enabled phones that we could look to as precedents? Let's say that Apple comes out with a great new iPhone in a couple of years and you want to switch to it. Ideally, you should still be able to use your old iPhone as a music/video/photo player, PDA and portable internet device, but is that going to be possible?

[Troll]

Originally Posted by icruise 

There was some talk a few pages ago about whether the internet capabilities of the iPhone could be usable without an active cellular account. Are there any other wi-fi enabled phones that we could look to as precedents? Let's say that Apple comes out with a great new iPhone in a couple of years and you want to switch to it. Ideally, you should still be able to use your old iPhone as a music/video/photo player, PDA and portable internet device, but is that going to be possible?

Every smartphone I've ever used needed a simcard in it to work. Without a simcard, the only thing it would do is allow an emergency call. If you have a simcard in it but that simcard is from a dead account, the other features should still work. AFAIK, in that case, existing smartphones don't know the difference between "no signal available" and "account not paid up". I would think the iPhone works when there isn't a signal so I would imagine that as long as you have a spare simcard, you should be able to use the other features in ad infinitum.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by icruise 

There was some talk a few pages ago about whether the internet capabilities of the iPhone could be usable without an active cellular account. Are there any other wi-fi enabled phones that we could look to as precedents? Let's say that Apple comes out with a great new iPhone in a couple of years and you want to switch to it. Ideally, you should still be able to use your old iPhone as a music/video/photo player, PDA and portable internet device, but is that going to be possible?

Treo devices work without sim cards installed.

Nokia 6682 will function as a pda without the sim card installed.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

Treo devices work without sim cards installed.

Nokia 6682 will function as a pda without the sim card installed.

Well, it's Apple. Prepare to think different

-t

[Fdanna]

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben 

I think this is a bit misleading... For one, you're going to pay for cell service one way or another. You shouldn't factor in that $40 per month because a majority of users ALREADY pay $40+ a month for their cell service. I've had 3 smart phones on cingular which I did not use their data plan, the most recent being the Nokia e62. Often times Cingular will offer additional rebates if you sign up for their data plan for at least 30 days, and this I've done in the past.

To me I see this as $25 a month more for the data plan. I'll sell my current phone to eat some of the cost. So $300 is really what I look at as the cost of ownership. I don't factor in the iPhone itself as ownership costs... I'd have spent that $500 dollars on a phone more than likely anyway.

The other thing to remember is that $300 of internet costs is really only applying to people who choose to use it, or don't already have it. If you already have a data plan with cingular, and already own a smart phone... all you're doing is buying a new phone.

Good points, but for some reason when I tried to get a smartphone from Cingular, both online and at the store, they would not let me have it without the dataplan. I have no use for EDGE networks and the expensive fees they levy.

My desire for an iPhone was to not have to carry an iPod and a Phone. The iPhone its current form has too many price drawbacks to justify the convenience in my case. I travel to Italy so I need an unlocked phone to avoid the ridiculous roaming costs. I can buy an unlocked motorola with bluetooth for $170 or less and just carry my iPod with me. No need for a data plan, no contract. What I don't get is the browsing/wifi ability... something I don't have now and can continue to live without. Instead I can still sync with my computer (contacts and calendar) and my iPod will hold my entire music library, not a 3.5gb fraction of it (something I could have lived with).

In my opinion, for $600 a phone shouldn't require a contract, nor should it be locked. The assumption of a contract means the phone is subsidized... which means that it costs much more ... probably around $800... if that's the case fine, but if $600 is full price for the phone and you still have the burden of the contract and the locking... this doesn't seem fair.

Considering that the iPhone design is probably a nod to what the next iPod will be like in many respects, I think I'd be happier with a new iPod than a phone with many strings attached.

On a side note, Europeans mostly thumb their noses at locked phones, so it will be interesting to how this phone is sold and marketed there.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Flash on a camera phone ?

Never seen one.

Taken with my Sony Ericsson K790a in the dark with the built-in flash. (I turned off all the lights in my office.)

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I don't know how it works in the US but here in Canada the contract is ONLY for the minutes plan and not anything else including the data, voicemail, texting etc.

That is not always true.

[TETENAL]

The K800i is the only phone ever I have seen with a flash. All the others have LED photo lights which are useless for taking pictures but make decent flashlights.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

The K800i is the only phone ever I have seen with a flash. All the others have LED photo lights which are useless for taking pictures but make decent flashlights.

Yeah, mine's useless as a flash, but it's a friggin bright flashlight.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That is not always true.

Wanna fill us in any more than just that?

[PER3]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Here in Australia pay-as-you-go are a much better deal than plans for some reason (or at least was a couple of years back - it might have evened out by now). And with automatic top-up it's just as convenient as plans as you never run out of credit.

Unfortunately, the money does run out.

I bought my mother a Telstra mobile phone for emergencies with ten bucks in the account, but after a couple of months, the money "expired".

Total crap.

Even here in Russia, pay as you go phones don't expire. You buy a scratch card or pay electronically, but there's no time limit for usage.

Can't believe the rubbish that is Australian telecommunication.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by PER3 

Unfortunately, the money does run out.

Every pay as you go plan I have seen has to be used up within a few months.

Sucks as I know a few people who want to keep a phone only in the car for the odd emergency.

[PurpleGiant]

Originally Posted by PER3 

Unfortunately, the money does run out.

I bought my mother a Telstra mobile phone for emergencies with ten bucks in the account, but after a couple of months, the money "expired".

Total crap.

Even here in Russia, pay as you go phones don't expire. You buy a scratch card or pay electronically, but there's no time limit for usage.

Can't believe the rubbish that is Australian telecommunication.

Go Vodafone. You can choose a 'bonus' option with your prepaid, like cheaper calls, some free texts, or 365 day credit expiry. My mum chooses that option. Costs her about $25/year credit that she has auto-topup on expiry.

[Dark Helmet]

Weird. I thought crack whores, criminals and grandma's were the only ones that used pre-paid phones?

[PurpleGiant]

And Australians.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant 

And Australians.

I thought I had them covered when I mentioned crack whores and criminals?