[silverfox]

Why do PC people want the Apple Store to fail so bad? Why do they shake their heads and piss on us all the time?

Why do they hate people who love their computers so much? Why do pc people berate mac users who feel it's made a difference in their lives?

Why is it so god-damn important to derisively slap around people who are walking on a different path, one that they are building themselves?

Why do you hate Apple so much?

Isn't it enough that a free market enterprise allows anyone with an idea that people endorse the opportunity to build and share with others and enrich their own lives? Or is that dream dead?

Or maybe you wanted to bury Tucker, too, when the big three in Detroit got the government to shut him down because he had a dream of a new car that flaunted design innovation. I think Apple, for a company that makes computers and an OS from the ground up, makes a mighty fine machine that may not be bleeding edge, but its got heart and agility. And it's taken many people farther than they would have gone otherwise. If you begrudge Apple that, then I hope you have a better dream that you yourself are going to market to us. Good luck.

[Zigmanx001]

Why? Because they know that we ARE better then them. Secretly... If they where to step out of line, they would loose friends, and be 'diffrent'. That would make them 'un cool', (not popular), and that would suck...
I'm proud to be diffrent.


------------------

[eep!]

most pc users really don't give any kind of creatures rear end that you're a mac user, it's just the over vocal, socially inept uber geek, seeking revenge for years of torment by the majority.

------------------
"Sometimes it's when everything seems to suck that we become motivated to find solutions to [our] problems." - MikeM32

[suprz]

i have pondered this same thought many times. i believe that it might be a case of "mob mentality" the world is so flooded with pee cees, many would be mac users are turned away from the light and go to the dark side because everyone has one and the software is so abundant, and you dont have to always ask..."is this mac compatible?". some people are not up to thinking different......and even though it might be "harder" for a mac person in this pee cee world, personally i wouldnt have it any other way

------------------
" I think,
therefore....IMAC

[Kosmo]

I have this friend, a PC user....everytime he comes over to my house he HAS to touch my Macs...he sits down at my DP and plays with it, picks up my TiBook and gets this glaze in his eyes...it's pretty sad.

I tell him to sell off his PC stuff and 'Go Mac' and his reply is always "I couldn't do that...I'm afraid".

So he calls me yesterday to tell me he bought a new 1.2Ghz processor. I ask him how it works, he says "not as fast as your DP. And I keep locking the damn thing up"... Again , it's pretty sad...

PC users know we have better computers. But they are afraid to switch. I don't know why, but they are.



------------------
http://www.manzione.com/
MacNETv2 coming July 2001

[AlbertWu]

cause then THEY get picked on, etc.. \

its a vicious cycle

------------------
<A HREF="http://alnora.carbonized.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi" TARGET=_blank>
Alnora Design Forums</A>

Why do VB programmers talk down about Delphi?

Why do Ford owners talk down Chevys (and vice-versa)?

When people make an investment in something (time, money), they have an emotional buy-in to that thing. They want to feel they did the right thing. Anything that confirms this view is eagerly accepted. Anything that tears down that view is attacked. It's an emotional response, so it can get irrational at times.

[fobside]

first of all...im both a PC user and an Apple user. i think people who claim one platform is superior in all aspects is general are ignorant. i think people define themselves as what they are and also what they are not. to be a pc user, in most cases, you cant be a mac user. thefefore mac is bad and should fail. long live pc because thats what i am...something like that.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by PrivateCitizen:
When people make an investment in something (time, money), they have an emotional buy-in to that thing. They want to feel they did the right thing. Anything that confirms this view is eagerly accepted. Anything that tears down that view is attacked. It's an emotional response, so it can get irrational at times.

Exactly. And really, IMO, Mac users are more zealous than PC users. Mac users hate Windows much more than PC users hate Mac, in my experience.

Mac users feel much more pressure to justify their choice, because it's in the minority. PC users typically don't even know the difference between Windows and Mac, and don't even know what Windows is. So we Mac users become MORE emotional and irrational about our computer choices than PC users.

[C-Eye]

It's simple. People fear what they don't understand. Most Mac-hating PC users have never used a Mac. I've used both a lot, and It wasn't too hard to decide which OS let's me get things done instead of troubleshooting all the time.

Some PC users have invested a lot of time and money in their computers, and the last thing they want to hear is that their system is inferior.

------------------

[Jsnuff1]

because they know were better than them and apples producs are better than theirs and there all jealous, mwhahaha let them hate us thell never be as good as us and they now it

[cheerios]

Originally posted by C-Eye:
It's simple. People fear what they don't understand. Most Mac-hating PC users have never used a Mac. I've used both a lot, and It wasn't too hard to decide which OS let's me get things done instead of troubleshooting all the time.

Some PC users have invested a lot of time and money in their computers, and the last thing they want to hear is that their system is inferior.

Bing bing bing, we have a winner!! I couldn't work a mac, and so, I hated them. When I met Juan, and saw his DP, I said "I'm sorry," and assumed that because i didn't get it, it was inferior. But I hate to not know what's goin on, so i let him show me how it all worked, and fell almost immeadiately in love.

------------------

...it's only life after all!
--Indigo Girls

[Timo]

Originally posted by PrivateCitizen:
[snip]
Why do Ford owners talk down Chevys (and vice-versa)?

When people make an investment in something (time, money), they have an emotional buy-in to that thing. [snip]

Yep. Emotional buy-in is right on. People these days have an enormous investment of not just money but emotional currency in the things they buy, and if that were not true then people wouldn't spend so much money on clothes or cars or other things where cost far outstrips functionality.

Job's campaign of making the Apple the center of a digital lifestyle demonstrates how Macs are marketed as more than just computers; they're part of a lifestyle. You know, that whole "think different" idea. I wonder if a certain subset of zealous PC users simply chafe at this campaign, because it promotes the idea that they are drones in some vast interchangable global corporate culture. And then there's a little snobbery in it too, it may be irritating for some when a rival operating system posits itself as so chic.

Anyway, people get absurdly defensive about these "lifestyle" badges, kinda like the way sports team rivalries grip the fans. In a consumer society, people often define "who they are" by "what they buy", and a computer (or a car) is a major enough purchase to get excited about.

My two cents, T

[xyber233]

Since they are the majority, they think they have power over us. Because they are part of the majority, they must be "right".

------------------

[iCartman]

Exactly. And really, IMO, Mac users are more zealous than PC users. Mac users hate Windows much more than PC users hate Mac, in my experience.

Bingo! Most Mac users who frequesnt BBS's are angry people who attack anyone anti-Apple (just look at the backlash in the OSX forum towards the people who dislike OSX). It's definately some form of insecurity complex. Hell, look at all the attention XP gets here! And there are far more zealot Mac web sites out there than zealot Wintel web sites. In my experince those Mac sites usually have all the wrong information when it comes to thier "comparisons" with PC's.

Apple is just getting thier fair share of medicine. They kicked Intel when Intel was down, now the tables have turned. Perhaps in the future it will reverse itself again (probably not).

------------------
respect mah athoritah!

[ironknee]

penis envy

[osiris]

Because they're donkey raping sh*t eaters?

Oh, that's Bill Gates description. Sorry.

Peecee people are just boneheads who still believe that Macs can't run Word, play QuakeIII
or go on the internet. Plus It's just a general belief that 'they' won and we lost, and we are therfore expected to
give up our Macs because of that 'fact'. Typical case of capitalism bastardizing free enterprise.

BTW & IMO the American Dream is dead, though still worth the visit.

As your attorney I advise you to read some Hunter S. Thompson to gain perspective.

[This message has been edited by osiris (edited 05-15-2001).]

[silverfox]

While there is not so much as recent years, here are some recent high profile Apple bashings:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...1/b3733059.htm
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/20...le2/index.html

Also, there has been press that Quicktime is losing its share, and CNET even recommends PC users download other plug-ins and give up on Quicktime. Read this:
http://www.cnet.com/software/0-32278...95-8-5726522-9

I think I find the worst of the bashing in my workplace and in forums. I look at a lot of posts in gaming forums and various messageboards, and it's not uncommon in a day to find someone just randomly saying: "I hate Apple. The computers are so gay looking and mac users are so full of themselves".

At the same time, some people come to Apple's defence. They immediately get labelled as the "mac-faithful" or "evangelists" and are considered as people too far gone to even give the trust of walking with scissors.

And the worst is when Apple is just plain forgotten or barely mentioned. Especially with the new digital hub motif the industry is creating, which incidentally was first mentioned by Apple in January (and then parroted by Gates and Dell in the following weeks), because Apple is the only one marketting digital lifestyle right now and to the whole industry's benefit. It hurts to be ignored. Like this article that asks why there is no innovation in computers, but sidelines Apple as if they don't make computers that anyone actually owns.
http://www.thestandard.com/article/0,1902,24328,00.html

And I have to agree, most people don't even think about Apple. And they want to feel good about their choices. But SOME people out there have a real bone to pick, and ostracize Apple users from their schools and companies, and refuse to even consider developping for the Mac OS, and advocate this neglect in boardrooms all over.

ps. Apple NEEDS the Apple Store to remind people it's here and thriving better than anticipated four years ago.

[This message has been edited by silverfox (edited 05-16-2001).]

[AppleGrazia]

I think a lot of it has to do with being miss informed or uniformed at all. After all a lot of pc users no next to nothing about macs while most mac user understand how the pc and mac works. They can see what the diffrences are and are able to make better choices. A lot has to do with the herd effect too. For example if 100 people drove Pinto's and 5 people drove volvo's. Those Pinto drivers would defend it to the end because they spent their money on it and their are more of them then the volvo's but the volvo drivers know they have the better machine so what does it matter what the other people think.

[Bugs Bunny]

I told this PC guy about my Ti the other day, and he says "what software do you run on dat Mac?" So I says,"well I use Office 2001 for all my WP stuff." He says, "who makes that?" I said, " you've got to be kidding , right?" I tell him, and he says, "I didn't know MS makes Mac software" I said, "yep, their software runs better on a Mac than on Windows." He was shocked. I wanted to beat his sorry @ss.

[The Dude]

Originally posted by osiris:
Because they're donkey raping sh*t eaters?

As your attorney I advise you to read some Hunter S. Thompson to gain perspective.

[This message has been edited by osiris (edited 05-15-2001).]

These are probably the best things I have ever read on these forums.

Ever.

[The Dude]

DP


[This message has been edited by The Dude (edited 05-16-2001).]

[pathogen]

Originally posted by The Dude:

These are probably the best things I have ever read on these forums.

Ever.

Just look out for the bats.

In other news, I find it interesting to read posts by taunters and trolls in these very forums. They always have a bizarrely snooty tone of voice in their writing that they are far more objective and enlightened. Who the hell can be enlightened when it comes to computers? There's another thread here about idols, and you see people loving Rush Limbaugh, Karl Marx, and M.I.T. ...and that's just the tip of the subjective iceberg each of us are towing behind us. The american dream is dead, long live the american dream. or whatever.

[silverfox]

Originally posted by pathogen:
Just look out for the bats.

In other news, I find it interesting to read posts by taunters and trolls in these very forums. They always have a bizarrely snooty tone of voice in their writing that they are far more objective and enlightened.

I think that's true of many who post around here, but some people are more diplomatic and humble than others.

The real wisdom of some users comes through when they aren't beating you over the head. Posts like Timo's up above are more understandable than someone who insults. It's the anger some people have that bothers me. Like the episode a few weeks ago where a mac user group tried to talk to a school board - they had good intentions but stumbled a bit, and the school board slapped them around publically and took away the group's weekly meeting location in an elementary school. The school board was angry! Their arguments were based on some Wormtongue who coached them to staunchly fight against macs, and they insulted the user group's intelligence in public statements. GRRRRR!!!!

[typoon]

My take on the whole thing is that PC people don't understand the Mac. I talk to PC users every day and when I tell them I use a Mac there like "hoe do you use soemthing like that" or "Oh, You use a Mac." The they get into the usual software spiel. A lot of people who use PC's think that since they can modify there config.sys and things that there computer is better because they are able to do things like that. I tell them I just want to get my work done and don't want to hack my system to make it jump through hoops so that I can look cool. I usually go into my main network question. How come you need to reboot after changing just one number or one letter in the Network section of your computer? I tell them I just set it up and can just switch configs and keep working. Now with Mac OS X I don't even need to do that. The I ask them how come you can't just Drag and drop something to install. or how come you have to right click on your recycle bin to empty trash? The Main thing I ask them is how come you can't boot from you CD?
The reason I HATE Windows is because of the Windows users I have talked to. Don't get me wrong there are many Mac users who are they same way but most Windows Users I talk to are like that, and because I have to troubleshoot it everyday and even the most confusing or difficult of Mac issues seem to get resolved painlessly by removing a preference file or disabling an extension or just reinstalling the program.

[iDude]

Originally posted by Zigmanx001:
Why? Because they know that we ARE better then them. Secretly... If they where to step out of line, they would loose friends, and be 'diffrent'. That would make them 'un cool', (not popular), and that would suck...
I'm proud to be diffrent.

I have a mac, and everyone at school says they suck. I just stick up for em becuase they are the best. I don't care what other people say I
just tell them that they're wrong.


------------------
the old iBooks rule,
dont forget it--iDude

[Macfreak7]

honestly... who cares.

just be happy with whatever you have.

peecee users probably arent happy with what they have so they have to criticize 'others' to make themselves feel better.

[pathogen]

and don't forget that nasty joe wilcox at CNET... what a mutherfokker! I mean, who's pocket is he in? And the rest of CNET too. Always pointing out what they think sucks vis a vis apple and never giving any props. Its a consipracy and its not just for ratings, these guys have an axe to grind!

[Macfreak7]

Originally posted by pathogen:
Its a consipracy and its not just for ratings, these guys have an axe to grind!

no kidding.
BusinessWeek is apparently funded by Intel

[bradoesch]

If most Wintel people were probably exposed to the whole Mac experience, I think they'd have a different outlook.
Personally, before I loved Apple, I hated them. I had never sat down with a recent Mac, and had a proper expience with them. I'd used a few at school, and they were outdated and slow. And that was my first experience, which stuck with me. And everytime I saw "Apple", I thought of crap. It wasn't until I had the chance to use B/W G3s in high school that I realized I had been totally wrong. And for hating Apple for so long, it was just my natural way of thinking. Apple is different, Apple sucks. They are slow, and sucky. I still remember the one buttom mouse (the older style, with the square button). Since that was the only Apple mouse I'd used, and I hated it, I figured they all sucked. I never knew the entire machine was 10 years old. They were all gray boxes to me. But after 2 PCs, I'd really had enough of fighting with the computer, and it was about that time I finally 'disocovered' Apple. Luckily it happened, and now I own an iMac. It's "saved" me from the maddness of the PC world. I wondered if I'd miss things like trying to fix all the little problems, and IRQ settings, and such, but I really don't. It was all so useless and dumb. And all the crashing, I just figured that all computers are like that. Not saying my Mac doesn't crash (which would be a big lie), but not nearly as often.
And speed, wow, once you see how fast things zip along, it's amazing. It felt like my PCs would slow down and I'd want a new one in a few months. But now my iMac. It still feels like it's got a powerhouse in there (after more than a year).
I also used to hate the interface...with a passion. But then again, all I saw was System 7, and I thought that was what they were all like. I was pretty wrong. Once I finally saw OS 8, the elegance and sophistication of it all, I was hooked on it. It was just so beautifully done, and so great to look at all the time. Amazing! And after that, I started to love System 7's interface, and I know have it as a Kaleidoscope skin.
Now I am just babbling on and on.
Yes, proper exposure is the key. I have a teacher at school who likes to make Mac jokes (knowing I like them), and he admits over and over again, "I've never used one before".
That's how I see things.

------------------
Why 1984, won't be
like "1984"

[iBabo]

You guys have no idea how it feels like to be a mac guy and a sophomore in highschool...and not just any highschool, Clark Magnet High School, "with emphasis on science tecnology and mathematics"...my whole school is filled with dumbasses that think they know stuff about computers, and when they find out i use a mac their friest response is "mac's suck"...(then i respond with "your mom sux"..but that's a different story)and as if it couldnt get any worse...my school is sponsered by compaq(its kinda funny to see the blue screen of death alot)and the irony of it all is our own principal has a mac in his office even though every other computer in our school is a PEECEE.
the whole school practically knows im "the mac guy"....and youd be surprised the questions i'l get asked. some guy asked me if a mac can have a desktop picture.....

also, as you can imagine i get bagged on alot for using a mac(after all it IS a nerd school...well kinda) its like i go to give a presentation, and i have a typd up piece of paper, and people go likeooh you did that on your mac?..im surprised it didnt crash....

on a brighter note, using my great business techniques..i have converted at least 7 people to "mac-ism"(if thats what you call it)...one guy acctually put down $4500 for a titanium after talking to me....and he hated macs before....and now his whole family is getting macs :-)
all i can say is ..its hard being a teen mac addict in a magnet school. . .

------------------
Babo
------------------
Think Different.

"Reality leaves alot to the Imagination"
-John Lennon

[Nimisys]

God i love hearing what i am thinking and the reason behind my exsistance... it seems to be Just to annoy you.

reality is i dislike the MacOS, and i find the Hardware too expencive and too limited for me. i perfer the opener feeling (including the barage of info that windows hits you with) of the PC archituchre...

Why i am here (a PC-only in a Mac-Only area), is because i also dislike zealotry, and ignorance. I find a sort of entertainment here annoying you all with my PC views and perspectives. call me hypocritical, but for every once of my zealotry and ignorance i see an equal amount around here.

[Nimisys]

God i love hearing what i am thinking and the reason behind my exsistance... it seems to be Just to annoy you.

reality is i dislike the MacOS, and i find the Hardware too expencive and too limited for me. i perfer the opener feeling (including the barage of info that windows hits you with) of the PC archituchre...

Why i am here (a PC-only in a Mac-Only area), is because i also dislike zealotry, and ignorance. I find a sort of entertainment here annoying you all with my PC views and perspectives. call me hypocritical, but for every bit of my zealotry and ignorance i see an equal amount around here.

[silverfox]

I'm quite saddened by that last (double) post. The embodiment of mac bashing (and poor writing skills... of which we are all guilty of now and again, but often it makes someone who would appear to be interesting just a little bit more stupid and insulting because they disdain any effort).

: P

[Nimisys]

hey it's 11:40 at night, i'm tird, my brain is fried from my networking class earlier, i can't seem to type at all, and my writing skills just plain suck (ask any of my earlier english teachers). as for the double post, i tried to delete it but it would not allow me to. sorry about that.

as for what i said, if i am the imbodiment of all that is anti-mac then you guys got it easy. look at some of the comments made by your fellow users... not exactly clean are they. I espcailly liked the one by sombody-Butcher about having Hitler around to kill of all PC users. do your ideas of being different and allowing other to choose only flow toward you? no. no they don't, personally i am afraid if this forum is an example of all other Mac forums. for a group that cry's out to be left alone and to be aloud to choose your platform, all your actions are the oppisite... all chanting "we are superior" or "we are better."

Actions, my fellow computer users, speak louder than words.

No i won't leave, i will remain here in this forum as a thorn in your side, if nothing else to make it harder to spout off ignorant, arrogant comments. Got a problem with it, i am sorry to hear it.

[TheGreatButcher]

poor PC user with no life - I think he's mad because Dell doesn't have zealots that love their machines to death

[Nimisys]

Originally posted by TheGreatButcher:
poor PC user with no life - I think he's mad because Dell doesn't have zealots that love their machines to death

no dumb a$$, i get angry for being told what i think, what i feel, what i am, or from your ass: how much my life is worth (or isn't Fu&lt;k Head)

i don't got to justify my life to you, nor will I.

As for Dell... Dell can suck on Janet Reno's nuts for all i care. Understandably you can't seem to grasp the concept that PC's aren't Dell, or Gateway, or any other single OEM... it's the group as a whole. I feel bad for you, not being of a high enough intellegence to grasp what should be a simple concept. If you and your simple mind want to go to your death with a zealotry for a machine, all the while speaking words in complete opposite of your actions, then far be it from me to stop you. If thats something you take pride in, the by all means do so, don't allow me or my lack of life (value) stop you.

you argue against Anti-Mac Zealots and yet as a Mac Zealot, you wish for mass genocide for all PC users at the hands of Hitler or i would assume, any other person with the means. What a poor twisted sad little person you are.

[nana2]

Originally posted by typoon:
The Main thing I ask them is how come you can't boot from you CD?
The reason I HATE Windows is because of the Windows users I have talked to.

LOL, you say that PC people don't understand the Mac? From your comments on how you can't boot from a CD on a PC I think any further comment is not required.

As for Dell zealots, certainly if you look for them you can find people who have bought Dell's and want to justify their expenditure. Especially the crippled/cut-down-to-bare-bones P4 systems they are selling at the moment.

Personally I find the idea of HATING someone because they choose to use a Mac/PC is just childish. That's not to say I don't dislike the MacOS (9 anyway), having had to do graphics programming on an early G3 it was an absolute horror show, especially with no protected memory so a pointer out of bounds would involve a hard restart and a few minutes waiting for it to boot From what I hear OSX is much better.

Certainly if I could get an x86 compatible Powerbook G4-clone that would be very nice. But the problem for me is that I could build 2 complete desktop x86 systems with 17" monitors for the price of a decent Cube or g4 Tower without a monitor! (This is in Australia) That is an incredible difference. Of course you would say that it is my problem that I can't afford it, and that is certainly true. A friend of mine who has a very old Mac was saying how he was looking for a new computer, and said he'd been to the local Mac shop. I told him I was building a PC for someone for $1700 with a 17" monitor, and his eyes nearly fell out of his head! For his tasks something like an iMac would be good, plus he's used to the MacOS look and feel, but spending $1795 on an all-in-one with a 15" monitor is just absurd.

Anyway, just another PC troll'er I guess

[TNproud2b]

^^^ what he said.

I find these forums to be packed full of misinformation relating to PCs and Windows. I get a huge kick out of reading what some of you think.

carry on.

[pathogen]

Originally posted by silverfox:
I look at a lot of posts in gaming forums and various messageboards, and it's not uncommon in a day to find someone just randomly saying: "I hate Apple. The computers are so gay looking and mac users are so full of themselves".

At the same time, some people come to Apple's defence. They immediately get labelled as the "mac-faithful" or "evangelists" and are considered as people too far gone to even give the trust of walking with scissors.

and round and round it goes... childish? Definitly. Misinformation on both sides? Definitly. But no one can deny that it hurts to be laughed at for loving something and to be treated like a foolish second-class citizen.

[typoon]

Originally posted by pathogen:
and round and round it goes... childish? Definitly. Misinformation on both sides? Definitly. But no one can deny that it hurts to be laughed at for loving something and to be treated like a foolish second-class citizen.

This happens with everything in today's society. From what politcal party you are affiliated with to what car you drive to what race/religion/sexual orientation. Yes it is very foolish, But that is why we are allowed to express how we feel in a free society.

[iBabo]

doesnt anyone care about my post???
i think i have it the hardest of all!!!!
doesn't anyone sympathize fopr me???
???
:-(

[pathogen]

I totally understand where you're coming from! I was the only mac user I knew until in college when I had a japanese exchange student for a roommate. The coolest guy ever, stayed up all night smoking cigarettes and drinking gin, and wrote letters to his girlfriend on his powerbook. My other roomates were PC freaks, and put down my mac constantly. Never mind that in 1995 my mac had video capture, voice recognition, a pen tablet and a million other things their PC's were still waiting on, they made fun of my mac every chance they could. And they were very arrogant about it.