[Love Calm Quiet]

I'm no where near to an Apple store to experience such a large, high-gloss screen to myself, so I'm wondering who here has the new 27" and works in front of it for 12+ hours/day?

I'm coming from a Powerbook + an external display (for web dev /design work), and I *think* it would ease my eyes (compared to looking back and forth between PB & CD). And I *think* I can deal with the gloss, since there's no light source behind me. But it'll be a big change, especially since I'm used to kind of looking *down* at the PB screen a lot.

Anybody care to share how the 27" works for their eyes over lots of hours? (and maybe the angle of the neck, too, being different than looking significantly downward toward PB?) Gracias!

[imitchellg5]

I haven't used one for hours, but my 24" display is glossy like the iMac's and is mounted at the same height. You're right, since there isn't a light source behind you, glossy won't be an issue. You'll probably find it pretty comfortable, much more so than your PowerBook.

Where in Colorado are you?

[Love Calm Quiet]

Thanks, iM. That's good news.
I'm in foothills of Wet Mountains (looking at Greenhorn). - southwest Pueblo Co. You?

[imitchellg5]

Sweet, I'm in Colorado Springs... it is disappointing that even Pueblo doesn't have any sort of Apple reseller.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Well, I occasionally get up to Springs - but I wonder if Voelker has the 27". You even go in there?
[something like intersection of Union/Powers?]

[Eug]

Personally I think both the 24" and the 27" are a little too tall for proper ergonomics for many people. I find myself straining slightly as the top of the screen is higher than I'd really prefer, esp. given I'm not super tall.

That said, the 27" is no higher than the 24". They crammed in the extra pixels into the same height by 1) widening the aspect ratio, and 2) making the pixels much smaller.

Unfortunately, the smaller pixels make it hard to read smaller fonts at longer seating distances. This is especially noticeable with Safari. Laptops usually have smaller fonts too, but they are usually situated much closer to your eyes so the fonts don't seem as small. I don't have teenage eyes anymore, and I find when I get tired I have tendency to lean forward to read stuff on the 27", which obviously is bad for my posture. That's something I didn't do with my 24", because the fonts were so much bigger. To compensate I can increase the font size, but Safari doesn't have very fine grained zoom adjustments.

Then again, constantly looking down at a laptop isn't proper ergonomics either.

As for the glossy screen, if I have the lights on bright I do notice some reflections, something I didn't notice with my matte 24". Luckily, I usually prefer working with the room lights turned down to lower levels anyway, and in that context the reflections are not an issue.

To put it another way, I think better ergonomics might be to have two screens, with lower screen height, at least for me. So, why did I get a 27" screen? I don't sit in front of it 12 hours a day. I use it intermittently, and needed the quad-core speed for certain stuff I do.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Thanks, Eug.
Since I'm 6'3", the height is probably okay for me.
And I tend to adjust the fonts (Safari prefs setting min font size to 12 (or even 14 for something like Google).
I may be able to get near an Apple store over holidays. [no substitute for first-eye experience.]

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet 

Well, I occasionally get up to Springs - but I wonder if Voelker has the 27". You even go in there?
[something like intersection of Union/Powers?]

Yes, Voelker should have them. I haven't been in for a while, but they keep their stock fresh. They're at Union and Academy. But from where I live (Garden of the Gods) it's only about a 5 minute difference in drive time to the Apple Store from my house (about 15 min to Voelker, 20 to Apple).

[Veltliner]

I have the ideal viewpoint with my 24" iMac.

For those who aren't that tall, a height-adjustable chair might do the trick.

[Veltliner]

I've always wondered if there will ever be a matte display for the iMac.

Probably not, as the glass front is part of the design.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

I have the ideal viewpoint with my 24" iMac.

For those who aren't that tall, a height-adjustable chair might do the trick.

Unfortunately, they don't.

1) If you raise a chair too high, your feet will come off the floor.

2) If you raise a chair too high the table height becomes too low.

I blame it on the iMac's chin, and the space between the chin and the table. Ideally, the iMac's height should be adjustable. To give you an idea... I have a 24" external screen, and it is height adjustable. At maximum height (which may be too tall for most under 6') it is still shorter than the iMac.

[P]

The chin becomes smaller for each iteration - it's now only 2-3 inches - so the problem is really only the lack of built-in height adjustment. Of course, there is a solution for that: Buying a VESA mount and a compatible arm. While I'd love to see that as a standard feature, it's less of a problem than it used to be. It's bigger problem that I have keep turning my head to see the entire screen.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Originally Posted by P 

It's bigger problem that I have keep turning my head to see the entire screen.

Now *that* is exactly what I want as my "biggest problem" with a Mac!

[Eug]

Originally Posted by P 

The chin becomes smaller for each iteration - it's now only 2-3 inches

Don't forget the black trim (which doesn't exist on the old white iMacs).

This is the aluminum 24" vs. the old white 20":



The chin looks huge on the white, but is almost the same size as the aluminum. It's smaller now on the 27", but it'd be nice to see it get even smaller. The VESA idea is something I considered, but it seems like way too much of a hassle (and cost).

BTW, after getting used to 2 x 24", the 27" still isn't wide enough. I use dual screens, but I don't like my current 24". I may upgrade it next year to a better quality 24".

[Love Calm Quiet]

Thanks, Eug - the pix are worth a *thousand* words !

Also helpful is that you show me something of the glare effect: which is really not so bad - considering there is obviously a light source *behind* you (noting spot at top of 27" and shadow on wall) - and considering I'll have nearly *no* lighting behind.

Gracias!

[Eug]

That's a 24" and a 20" white. There is no 27" inch in that picture.

[Love Calm Quiet]

Whew! I thought it was a 27 and a 24.
I believe I'll love the 27s real estate - if I can read the icons in the menu bar
In any case, that 24 should probably matches the *glare* experience of the 27, n'est-ce-pas?

[P]

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet 

Now *that* is exactly what I want as my "biggest problem" with a Mac!

Yeah, I'm just not used to it, I guess. There are worse problems to have. Slightly worried that my iMac will start having that flickering problem, though, so I'm on my watch all the time while using it, trying to look for even the most minor defect.

[P]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Don't forget the black trim (which doesn't exist on the old white iMacs).

True, and the difference between the white 24" and the aluminum 24" is tiny, but the 27" has a significantly smaller chin. The total computer is about the same height as the 24" (a few millimeters lower) despite the bigger screen. The center of the screen actually seems to be the same as my old 17", or even slightly lower.

[Mojo]

For some people an iMac just won't cut it, ergonomically-speaking... So Buyer Beware when considering an iMac. In some cases the cost of adapting your office furnishings to accommodate an iMac may cost as much or more than buying a more expensive Mac and monitor.

I am 5"10" and when I purchased a white 24" iMac I developed serious neck pain because I had to look up at the screen. Since the iMac does not have any vertical adjustments I had to put my office chair at its highest position and fortunately it did the trick... barely. Of course, I had to raise the keyboard and mouse too, so they rest on top of books. If I had to go any higher my knees would not fit under the slide-out keyboard tray attached to my computer desk.

If you are shorter than 5'10" you may need a different chair and/or desk. I did a lot of searching and I could not find any reasonably-priced solutions. The Biomorph desks (Biomorph :: Ergonomic Desk and Ergonomic Furniture, Ergonomic Desks, PACS Radiology Furniture and Computer Desk) will do the trick but at around $1000 and up they certainly aren't cheap.

If I hadn't come up with the solution I described above I would have had to buy a new desk or switch to a portable Mac or MacPro and buy a height-adjustable monitor. Apple monitors cannot be adjusted up or down, but the Dell monitors that I have looked at have generous height adjustment options.

[Eug]

Any monitor can be adjusted up. Just put something underneath it.

[P]

And none of the current iMacs are as high (in terms of average viewing height) as the 24" white ones. Doesn't mean that there shouldn't be height adjustment, but realistically the lowest height would be very close to what the height is today.

A better solution then is a VESA mount. Mounting directly to the wall is easiest, if you can, but even some of the arms that you clamp to the desk can take the iMac weight. Apple charges a silly $30 for the mounting plate, but there are arms available for under $70, so the entire enterprise should come in under $100. The white 24" model also supports VESA mounts, if you can find the attachment plate anywhere.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by P 

And none of the current iMacs are as high (in terms of average viewing height) as the 24" white ones. Doesn't mean that there shouldn't be height adjustment, but realistically the lowest height would be very close to what the height is today.

Average viewing height is not as important as top viewing height.

Furthermore, it's quite common in monitors have the lowest viewing height 2 inches lower than what the iMacs (both 21.5" and 27") have today, in order to decrease the highest viewing height.

[P]

Most monitors don't have air vents underneath. Also, you can sort of compensate by bringing the iMac closer and tilting it up. I still recommend a VESA mount if you have ergonomic issues though. Mine is up against a window, or I would have ordered one already.

[Eug]

Yeah, but that is why I am saying the chin needs to get smaller. You can still have nice clearance for air flow over the table with a smaller chin.

IMO, the 21.5" is the sweet spot. Although it is the same rise off the table and the same sized chin, it's a significant 6.6 cm shorter than the 27". At that height, my eyes are close to the top of the screen.

Anyways, I'm now really considering getting that VESA mount again, but I'm wondering what to get without having to mount it to the wall. I don't really want to destroy my table either, but if it works that might be better than drilling holes in the wall.

Either that, or I could just tough it out until the 21.5" gets Core i7. I managed to tough it out with the 24", mainly because I don't sit in front of it all day long.

BTW, my best ergonomic computer setup is at work, and I just measured it. The table height is 29.5", and the screen height is 18". The 21.5" iMac has a screen height of 17.75", which a bigger bezel, which means it's about a 1/2" shorter. The 27" is about 2" taller than my setup at work, which means I'd need to lower the screen 2" to be comparable.

It's amazing what just 2" can do. The perils of being short.

[P]

There isn't a lot to give, not without moving the ports somewhere else. The ports need to have some depth on the inside of the shell.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by P 

There isn't a lot to give, not without moving the ports somewhere else. The ports need to have some depth on the inside of the shell.

Indeed. That's why I think this obsessiveness with iMac thinness is a bit odd. I never found the G5 iMac too thick, and I have never met anyone who actually cares that the edge of the Intel iMacs are a few mm thinner.

These are not laptops after all.