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Las Vegas shooting (Page 6)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 10, 2017, 04:14 AM
 
Perhaps so, but throwing a guy in prison for teaching his dog how to raise its paw when he said "Sieg Heil" (as a way of mocking nazis)? That's wrong. Are they going to jail people for watching Mel Brooks' films, too? A little "Springtime for Hitler" gets you 18 months?
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Doc HM
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Oct 10, 2017, 04:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Perhaps so, but throwing a guy in prison for teaching his dog how to raise its paw when he said "Sieg Heil" (as a way of mocking nazis)? That's wrong. Are they going to jail people for watching Mel Brooks' films, too? A little "Springtime for Hitler" gets you 18 months?
Surely it's also about intent. Mel Brooks is obviously lampooning, and also he is Jewish himself. That said I doubt it would fly as a film today. And that's not necessarily wrong. The same for the BBC sitcom from the 80s set in occupied France complete with "comedy" Gestapo and SS troopers.

Personally I feel that there should be a place for ridicule, people rarely feel as well disposed to ideas that are held to be entirely foolish by everyone else. I guess he really just should have thought a bit harder before posting the film.
And (again) personally a bit of community service would have been more sensible than jail time. Unless there was evidence of other behaviour.

ps The article seems to be saying he did it to annoy his girlfriend rather than mock Nazies?
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Oct 10, 2017, 04:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
That's shady. "A good bit of the Left"? It was popular with 96% of congress, on both sides of the aisle. It's also been repealed, and action also endorsed by both sides.
I have to say that's one thing I really wish we would learn form your government. Anti terrorism laws passed in haste never get repealed here.
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Oct 10, 2017, 05:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No it isn't. The USA isn't the UK, we have a culture that's grown around our ownership of guns, and we certainly don't want what's been happening over there and the EU (and getting worse). I believe some of you, particularly those who currently disagree with the state, are closer to being thrown into gulags than you think. As an example, this poor bastard, whom I know (he goes by the Youtube name "Count Dankula", who is likely going to spend time in prison for nothing more than teaching his dog to "heil Hitler" as a joke. Nice free expression you guys have over there.

Gun culture is a non-argument and you know it. You were a culture built on slavery long before you had a thing for guns.

We could definitely use a little more respect for free speech over here but that said I'll start to worry when its actually abused. The reason you don't punish people for shitty ideas is because ideally they should be free to have them but if those ideas are allowed to spread unchecked then you risk repeating the worst episodes of history. I'd rather punish some racist moron than end up with President Trump.

Besides that, there is really no causal connection between locking up racists and banning guns. Plenty of other countries have banned guns without ending up under dictators.
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subego
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Oct 10, 2017, 06:35 AM
 
Which worst episode in history was precipitated by free thought?
     
Chongo
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Oct 10, 2017, 07:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Which worst episode in history was precipitated by free thought?


"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
subego
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Oct 10, 2017, 07:47 AM
 
I'm listening. How was that precipitated by free thought?
     
Chongo
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Oct 10, 2017, 08:05 AM
 
Chamberlain was free to think Herr Hitler would keep his word and have “peace in our time”
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subego
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Oct 10, 2017, 08:13 AM
 
I march on Poland and free thought is to blame because someone else didn't kick my ass?
     
Chongo
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Oct 10, 2017, 09:15 AM
 
Czechoslovakia was first, after the free thinkers handed over the Sudetenland in the Munich agreement. Then Poland was invaded.
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Waragainstsleep
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Oct 10, 2017, 09:21 AM
 
Actually I never said the worst episode was precipitated by free thought/speech, only that free/thought speech is often used by those in greatest danger of repeating it to justify their actions.

We clamp down on Hitler fans, your president says they're "good people".
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subego
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Oct 10, 2017, 09:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Czechoslovakia was first, after the free thinkers handed over the Sudetenland in the Munich agreement. Then Poland was invaded.
Not really addressing the point.
     
Chongo
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Oct 10, 2017, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Actually I never said the worst episode was precipitated by free thought/speech, only that free/thought speech is often used by those in greatest danger of repeating it to justify their actions.

We clamp down on Hitler fans, your president says they're "good people".
At least get the words right.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/15/read...onference.html
Trump: [Inaudible.] You have some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group — excuse me, excuse me — I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 10, 2017, 10:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Gun culture is a non-argument and you know it. You were a culture built on slavery long before you had a thing for guns.
Another brilliant non-sequitur from you, eh? America had slavery in the past and that was bad, and since Americans also had guns back then, those are bad too? We also had peach pie during slavery, and slaves picked peaches, so peach pie should be banned? Soon you'll want us to ban some people from buying kitchen knives, like you do over there? Geez, stay in your lane and keep your oppressive totalitarianism to yourselves.

We could definitely use a little more respect for free speech over here but that said I'll start to worry when its actually abused. The reason you don't punish people for shitty ideas is because ideally they should be free to have them but if those ideas are allowed to spread unchecked then you risk repeating the worst episodes of history. I'd rather punish some racist moron than end up with President Trump.
WTF? Sending people to prison for merely mocking nazis isn't abuse? You want control of thoughts and ideas. WTF? The guy isn't racist, he was making fun of nazis (equating them to being nothing more than trained dogs). Seriously, we need to place you guys on the travel ban, maybe it'll help keep your thought-policing confined to your own little police state hell.

Besides that, there is really no causal connection between locking up racists and banning guns. Plenty of other countries have banned guns without ending up under dictators.
Yet ALL countries who DID end up with dictators first banned guns. There's no connection between controlling speech, confiscating the means of the citizenry to defend itself, and totalitarian control? Okay, you're just pulling our legs, right? Good one, you had me going there for a minute.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 10, 2017, 10:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Actually I never said the worst episode was precipitated by free thought/speech, only that free/thought speech is often used by those in greatest danger of repeating it to justify their actions.
When? Who? Give us examples.

We clamp down on Hitler fans, your president says they're "good people".
More disingenuous crap? Geez. Not everyone who went to that rally was part of the little torch ceremony the night before or even knew about it, and at least 1/4-1/3 of the people who were there for the daytime march didn't give a single damn about Spencer or his agenda, they only showed up because it was billed as a rally to save monuments, which many people find of importance (because knowing history is important).

I know you like to tar everyone with your identitarian brush (all Right = bad), but there were 100s of people on the political Right in attendance who weren't white supremacists/nationalists. So while most of the 500 who were there to protest the monument removal could be considered racist not all of them were, and it's safe to assume that at least some of them were "good people". Not that you actually care, you just use this type of thing for political fodder anyway.
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Laminar
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Oct 10, 2017, 10:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
they only showed up because it was billed as a rally to save monuments, which many people find of importance (because knowing history is important).
Yeah, we already shut that one down.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 10, 2017, 11:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Yeah, we already shut that one down.
For all in attendance? You personally know why each person was there?
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Oct 10, 2017, 01:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yet ALL countries who DID end up with dictators first banned guns. There's no connection between controlling speech, confiscating the means of the citizenry to defend itself, and totalitarian control?
They banned guns first? What about those dictators that could not have attained power without an armed citizenry? Tsarist Russia would likely not have fallen if there was not so much private ownership of guns to fight the government. Contrary to NRA propaganda, the Nazi's actually relaxed guns laws for most of it's citizenry- sure they made it illegal for Jews and other persecuted groups from owning guns, but they riled up the patriot Germans by identifying an internal enemy and turned those armed patriots into an extension of the state.

It was kind of like my hypothetical above.

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BadKosh
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Oct 10, 2017, 02:09 PM
 
The Brits are why we have such a gun culture in our country. The slavery stuff started later.
     
Laminar
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Oct 10, 2017, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
For all in attendance? You personally know why each person was there?
Deeper.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 10, 2017, 02:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Another brilliant non-sequitur from you, eh? America had slavery in the past and that was bad, and since Americans also had guns back then, those are bad too?
Sorry, was this remark over your head? I thought it was obvious myself. You had a culture of keeping slaves probably earlier than your 'gun culture' existed. You got rid of that slave culture (eventually) because it was wrong. Therefore if you can get rid of one culture that is highly ingrained in your society, you can get rid of another one. The other one being guns. Understand the point now?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
We also had peach pie during slavery, and slaves picked peaches, so peach pie should be banned? Soon you'll want us to ban some people from buying kitchen knives, like you do over there? Geez, stay in your lane and keep your oppressive totalitarianism to yourselves.
This is just embarrassing for you. Even for you. So, so simple yet so, so far over your head.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
WTF? Sending people to prison for merely mocking nazis isn't abuse? You want control of thoughts and ideas.
Bit of a stretch isn't it?

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
WTF? The guy isn't racist,
Know him personally do you? Oops, being a pedant means you can't get away with obvious mistakes and contradictions like this one.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
he was making fun of nazis (equating them to being nothing more than trained dogs).
Making use of your exclusive mind-reading rights again I see. Maybe he was making fun, maybe he was trying to embarrass his other half or maybe not. Maybe he was jailed because the authorities thought "making fun" was a lie to keep him out of trouble and punished him more harshly as a result. I don't know, but neither do you.
Also, whatever your intentions may have been, going around in public yelling Sieg Hail at your dog which then gives a Nazi salute is going to be very offensive to plenty of people. Its certainly racially insensitive, which means many would say its racist anyway. I'm not one of them, but you know that plenty of people think that way.
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subego
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Oct 10, 2017, 03:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
They banned guns first? What about those dictators that could not have attained power without an armed citizenry? Tsarist Russia would likely not have fallen if there was not so much private ownership of guns to fight the government. Contrary to NRA propaganda, the Nazi's actually relaxed guns laws for most of it's citizenry- sure they made it illegal for Jews and other persecuted groups from owning guns, but they riled up the patriot Germans by identifying an internal enemy and turned those armed patriots into an extension of the state.

It was kind of like my hypothetical above.

Not everything is so simple or black and white.
This sounds like it's knocking the October Revolution, when it was the February Revolution which toppled Tsarist Russia.
( Last edited by subego; Oct 10, 2017 at 05:12 PM. )
     
Paco500
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Oct 10, 2017, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This sounds like it's knocking the October Revolution, when it was the February Revolution which toppled Tsarist Russia.
Not sure I get your point here- is it your position that the February Revolution would have been successful without an armed citizenry?

I suppose it's possible, but that's not the way it happened.
     
subego
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Oct 10, 2017, 05:43 PM
 
I'm saying it's not as, umm... red and white as I felt it was being portrayed.

We have both good and bad results here due to an armed citizenry.
     
Paco500
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Oct 11, 2017, 01:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm saying it's not as, umm... red and white as I felt it was being portrayed.

We have both good and bad results here due to an armed citizenry.
Correct, so does that mean you also disagree with the statement:

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
Yet ALL countries who DID end up with dictators first banned guns.
which is clearly unsupported by facts?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 11, 2017, 10:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Deeper.
Dimmer.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 11, 2017, 10:54 AM
 
I've apparently hit gold now. Let's continue!

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Sorry, was this remark over your head? I thought it was obvious myself.
There are too many things you believe are "obvious" that are nonsensical poop outside of your own head. That was one of them.

This is just embarrassing for you. Even for you. So, so simple yet so, so far over your head.
That's how I know you realize you're wrong, but now you're going to double-down.

Bit of a stretch isn't it?
Sending someone to prison for teaching it how to raise its paw, especially as part of a Youtube comedy sketch, is ****ed up. If you can't see that, then you are the problem.

Know him personally do you? Oops, being a pedant means you can't get away with obvious mistakes and contradictions like this one.
Yes, I know him, I've watched his sketches for over a year, played games with the guy and talked with him over Discord. He's probably less racist than you.

Making use of your exclusive mind-reading rights again I see. Maybe he was making fun, maybe he was trying to embarrass his other half or maybe not. Maybe he was jailed because the authorities thought "making fun" was a lie to keep him out of trouble and punished him more harshly as a result. I don't know, but neither do you.
Also, whatever your intentions may have been, going around in public yelling Sieg Hail at your dog which then gives a Nazi salute is going to be very offensive to plenty of people. Its certainly racially insensitive, which means many would say its racist anyway. I'm not one of them, but you know that plenty of people think that way.
Noooo, I talked with him about his motivations for it, and I believe him, because he's a comedian who makes edgy content. The fact you believe he somehow deserves punishment over something he said in private means that YOU are the awful person in this, not him, and certainly not me. He did this in his home, not in public (he wasn't out yelling "Sieg Heil" to his dog, as you so ignorantly state.

Whatever has happened to you to make you believe that words, not even directed at any specific person, can be an imprisonable offense, has ruined you as a reasonable, rational human being. I guess you'd be okay for arresting a George Carlin-style comedian at a club, now? Is that "progressive"?
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 11, 2017, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
They banned guns first?
That proves my point. An armed populace took their country back. I may not agree with the revolution's politics, but I certainly don't agree with the Tsar's government, either. It was a bad business all around; a thoroughly corrupt leadership ran headlong into undiluted Marxism, it was destined to end up the most bloody coup in the history of humanity. That then became the most tyrannical gov't the world has ever known, leading to the deaths of over 80 million people (who had long-since been stripped of their guns under communist control, unless you were an unquestioningly faithful member of the Party).

which is clearly unsupported by facts?
While I'm sure you can dig for situations that aren't quite as black and white, yes. Historically, it's standard practice to strip the populace of their means of defense when installing a totalitarian regime. For their own good, of course, because filthy commoners can't be expected to know what's best for themselves, they might kill you while you're trying to make their lives "better".
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Oct 11, 2017, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I've apparently hit gold now. Let's continue!
I can't even imagine what you think you mean. I've never known anyone to be happy about the fact they can't understand simple sentences.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
There are too many things you believe are "obvious" that are nonsensical poop outside of your own head. That was one of them.
Was it really though? I'll try again, just to be a good sport.

You cited 'gun culture' as a reason not to repeal 2A. I stated that slavery culture was every bit as important as gun culture once upon a time in the history of the US, but still wasn't enough of a reason to not ban slavery.
You misinterpreted this as a comparison of whether owning guns was worse than owning slaves. Either you're an idiot or this is just your typical tactic of trying to rebuff things that people didn't actually say. Like you'll do again very shortly. This time however, it just makes you look foolish.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
That's how I know you realize you're wrong, but now you're going to double-down.
Double down? Or not let it go that you can't understand very simple concepts and comparisons correctly.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Sending someone to prison for teaching it how to raise its paw, especially as part of a Youtube comedy sketch, is ****ed up. If you can't see that, then you are the problem.
This is you doing it again as mentioned above. The stretch part was me wanting to control peoples thoughts based solely on my failure to agree with you on this freedom of speech issue.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yes, I know him, I've watched his sketches for over a year, played games with the guy and talked with him over Discord. He's probably less racist than you.
I was arguing this based solely on the information in this thread because frankly I didn't care enough to go read about it. What I thought had happened was that someone had taught a dog to do a Nazi Salute when it heard someone shout "Sieg hail!" in order to embarrass the dogs owner. Consequently I imagined scenes where the woman and her dog were out walking with the boyfriend who would then shout "Sieg Hail!" in order to make the dog salute in front of witnesses, thereby publicly embarrassing her. Not the funniest thing I've ever heard but I can see where he would have been coming from. Its not something I would jail him for, but I can clearly see that anyone with two brain cells to rub together was going to receive more shit than the joke was worth by going ahead with it, whether it was a fine, or just complaints from other people. It very clearly showed a lack of consideration in particular for Jewish people and a lot of our WW2 veterans take offence at any kind of Nazi sympathisers for obvious reasons.

So I went out of my way and read about this case now that you've mentioned youtube and his being a comedian etc. I didn't realise it was posted on Youtube. I would be very much against punishing anyone for things they say in their own homes, but broadcasting something like that to the world is even worse than just doing it in public for a limited audience. He really should have known better. As it is, the premise is funnier than I previously thought. I do get it, turn a cute dog into a Nazi. But put a uniform on it or something. The shouting is a monumentally stupid idea.
I can't help but wonder why you left out what I'm going to suggest is a 'key element' in this case, which is the bit where he teaches the dog to 'respond' when he says "gas the jews". He repeated this phrase a couple of dozen times or more during the video. A witness actually stated in court that this was the part he was really bothered by.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...o-nazi-salute/

He could have pulled off the same prank without using that phrase at all. Its senseless idiocy rather than an actual hate crime but intent is not always the be all and end all when it comes to commission of crimes.
I notice he hasn't been convicted yet let alone sentenced, but I should think a bit of community service would be appropriate here.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I talked with him about his motivations for it, and I believe him, because he's a comedian who makes edgy content. The fact you believe he somehow deserves punishment over something he said in private means that YOU are the awful person in this, not him, and certainly not me. He did this in his home, not in public (he wasn't out yelling "Sieg Heil" to his dog, as you so ignorantly state.
I'm not sure in what universe a youtube video constitutes the privacy of his living room.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Whatever has happened to you to make you believe that words, not even directed at any specific person, can be an imprisonable offense, has ruined you as a reasonable, rational human being. I guess you'd be okay for arresting a George Carlin-style comedian at a club, now? Is that "progressive"?
I never heard George Carlin say anything that I thought needed punishing. And as half-assed as my endorsement of imprisoning your mate was, I have downgraded my take on his punishment in light of actually bothering to get the facts. The facts which you had and still attempted to twist, selectively ignore and somewhat misrepresent.
( Last edited by Waragainstsleep; Oct 11, 2017 at 11:33 PM. )
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Oct 11, 2017, 10:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I can't even imagine what you think you mean.
You're a wealth of totalitarian garbage.

Was it really though?
Yep.

You cited 'gun culture' as a reason not to repeal 2A. I stated that slavery culture was every bit as important as gun culture once upon a time in the history of the US, but still wasn't enough of a reason to not ban slavery.
You misinterpreted this as a comparison of whether owning guns was worse than owning slaves. Either you're an idiot or this is just your typical tactic of trying to rebuff things that people didn't actually say. Like you'll do again very shortly. This time however, it just makes you look foolish.
No one looks more foolish than you in this discussion. There was never, EVER a "slave culture" in the USA, because 99% of people never even owned them. In fact, most people would have lived their lives without ever even seeing them. Unlike firearms, which most people owned and saw on a daily basis.

Maybe you should quit while you're behind, there?

Double down? Or not let it go that you can't understand very simple concepts and comparisons correctly.
Given the above, the irony there is thick and noxious, like Corbyn's thoughts, or farts (same thing).

This is you doing it again as mentioned above. The stretch part was me wanting to control peoples thoughts based solely on my failure to agree with you on this freedom of speech issue.
Wanting to punish people for saying words is ****ed up, no matter what the words are.

I was arguing this based solely on the information in this thread because frankly I didn't care enough to go read about it. ...
You finally admit that you were arguing from a position you had no knowledge of, at all. That's a start.

So I went out of my way and read about this case now that you've mentioned youtube and his being a comedian etc. I didn't realise it was posted on Youtube. I would be very much against punishing anyone for things they say in their own homes, but broadcasting something like that to the world is even worse than just doing it in public for a limited audience. He really should have known better. As it is, the premise is funnier than I previously thought. I do get it, turn a cute dog into a Nazi. But put a uniform on it or something. The shouting is a monumentally stupid idea.
I can't help but wonder why you left out what I'm going to suggest is a 'key element' in this case, which is the bit where he teaches the dog to 'respond' when he says "gas the jews". He repeated this phrase a couple of dozen times or more during the video. A witness actually stated in court that this was the part he was really bothered by.
and then you lose it again. Youtube is voluntary viewing, unlike just doing something in public among unwitting bystanders. The "gas the jews?" question was part of the skit, he could get the dog to look at him when he said it. Do you know how Youtube works? It isn't just "broadcast to the world" and people have no choice in receiving it. You realize that, right? This isn't like a bullhorn in public, or walking around the park with a TV on your back, streaming it to anyone and everyone who walks by. (I can't believe I need to explain streaming technology to you. So sad.)

I'm not sure in what universe a youtube video constitutes the privacy of his living room.
Yeah, and that's rather disturbing, TBH. See, he was literally in his living room, and the only way to view his video was to look for the video and then voluntarily open it. It isn't ANYTHING that just anyone would have seen by happenstance, it was made specifically for his audience, not people with delicate sensibilities, who wrongly (and ignorantly) believe that someone should be jailed over a comedy sketch.

He could have pulled off the same prank without using that phrase at all. Its senseless idiocy rather than an actual hate crime but intent is not always the be all and end all when it comes to commission of crimes.
I notice he hasn't been convicted yet let alone sentenced, but I should think a bit of community service would be appropriate here.
Of course you would, because you couldn't care less about free expression. You have many pro-fascist tendencies towards individual liberties, it's rather shocking. You should look into Liberalism.

I never heard George Carlin say anything that I thought needed punishing. And as half-assed as my endorsement of imprisoning your mate was, I have downgraded my take on his punishment in light of actually bothering to get the facts. The facts which you had and still attempted to twist, selectively ignore and somewhat misrepresent.
Reeeeeally? (NSFW)


That's 90 days community service for you, George (if you weren't now dead), under WAS's rules.
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Laminar
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Oct 12, 2017, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No one looks more foolish than you in this discussion. There was never, EVER a "slave culture" in the USA, because 99% of people never even owned them. In fact, most people would have lived their lives without ever even seeing them. Unlike firearms, which most people owned and saw on a daily basis.
You're asserting that a lot of people have to have owned slaves for there to have existed a "slave culture"? That's not true. A culture built around the existence of slavery - one where the general population readily accepts that a human being can lawfully own another human being - one where the general population accept that based on uncontrollable irrelevant physical characteristics alone, some human beings can be treated as less than human - that's a slave culture. It has nothing to do with what percent of people owned slaves.

But just for fun, let's check your numbers. Oops, looks like you're wrong again!

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...-slavery-1860/

Using Census data to research his book, Glatthaar calculated that 4.9 percent of people in the slaveholding states owned slaves, that 19.9 percent of family units in those states owned slaves, and that 24.9 percent of households owned slaves.
...
State-by-state figures show some variation. In Mississippi, 49 percent of families owned slaves, and in South Carolina, 46 percent did. In border states, the percentage was lower -- 3 percent in Delaware and 12 percent in Maryland. The median for slaveholding states was about 27 percent.
...
"Many non-slaveholding whites in the South rented slaves from wealthier slaveholders," he said. "So it was very common for a white Southerner to be a 'slave master' but not technically a 'slave owner."
Good try, though.

That's 90 days community service for you, George (if you weren't now dead), under WAS's rules.
And seven days in the time out corner for you.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 12, 2017, 12:20 PM
 
Half of Mississippi families had slaves? No wonder it's still a shitheel today
     
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Oct 12, 2017, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No one looks more foolish than you in this discussion. There was never, EVER a "slave culture" in the USA, because 99% of people never even owned them. In fact, most people would have lived their lives without ever even seeing them. Unlike firearms, which most people owned and saw on a daily basis.

Maybe you should quit while you're behind, there?
Slaves were so important you fought a civil war over them. Ultimately the pro-slavers lost of course, but there was more than enough of them to make it a pretty good fight and not a five minute formality.

Even if I were wrong, "gun culture" is still not a good enough reason for bad policy that gets people needlessly killed.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Given the above, the irony there is thick and noxious, like Corbyn's thoughts, or farts (same thing).
Have you been drinking?


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Wanting to punish people for saying words is ****ed up, no matter what the words are.
People have to take responsibility for their actions. Sometimes words speak loudly enough.

"I'm going to kill you!" or "So this is how we get in and out of the bank with the loot..." are just words but can get you charged on either side of the Atlantic. Same is true if those words happen to be labelled 'Classified' and you say them to the wrong people. "Come and meet me for sex underage child." There are all sorts of examples of words that you can be punished for saying. So calm your tits.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You finally admit that you were arguing from a position you had no knowledge of, at all. That's a start.
If I can't change my position when I learn new things I'm wasting both our time.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
and then you lose it again. Youtube is voluntary viewing, unlike just doing something in public among unwitting bystanders. The "gas the jews?" question was part of the skit, he could get the dog to look at him when he said it. Do you know how Youtube works? It isn't just "broadcast to the world" and people have no choice in receiving it. You realize that, right? This isn't like a bullhorn in public, or walking around the park with a TV on your back, streaming it to anyone and everyone who walks by. (I can't believe I need to explain streaming technology to you. So sad.)
You're trying to sound clever here but failing utterly. Uploading a Youtube video is publishing. Its functionally no different to selling it on DVD, or writing it in a book or newspaper or magazine. Its just free, thats all. If he'd put it on a private channel, invite only, then you might have a point, but he published it and someone saw it, took offence and reported him for it.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Yeah, and that's rather disturbing, TBH. See, he was literally in his living room, and the only way to view his video was to look for the video and then voluntarily open it. It isn't ANYTHING that just anyone would have seen by happenstance, it was made specifically for his audience, not people with delicate sensibilities, who wrongly (and ignorantly) believe that someone should be jailed over a comedy sketch.
Again, if his audience were on a mailing list and he restricted access or at least discovery to them, you might have a point. Can't say for sure without watching or consuming more of his content. If he really isn't racist then theres a chance there are no similar jokes which means theres a chance he might have Jewish fans and then even if he only sent the video to subscribers theres a strong chance he would still have upset some people.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Of course you would, because you couldn't care less about free expression. You have many pro-fascist tendencies towards individual liberties, it's rather shocking. You should look into Liberalism.
I could care a lot less about free expression. I could care a bit more about it too, but those who do only ever tend to use that extra bit of caring to defend racism and other shitty attitudes and behaviours. Hence my indifference.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Reeeeeally? (NSFW)


That's 90 days community service for you, George (if you weren't now dead), under WAS's rules.
Do I really need to go through with you the difference here?
In point of fact, there is one line in that video where Carlin might have got in trouble with UK laws, where he says that Pryor and Murphy are n-words. I'm sure we all understand why he did that. He punctuated a serious point with humour so as to reinforce the point. As such I'd forgive him and I strongly suspect UK police would have let it slide unless there was a lot of complaints about it too.
But a racial slur doesn't compare to a phrase like 'gas the Jews'. Taken out of context, thats an intimidating chant, a suggestion or instruction or voicing of support for the described action. If you take it as an instruction, thats very clearly incitement to violence which I think even you laws would be able to prosecute. Probably not in a red state but they could if they felt so inclined.
Do I think he meant it? No. But as I said, he didn't need it to make the joke work. He wasn't making any kind of valid intellectual point. He should have known better.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Oct 12, 2017, 02:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Half of Mississippi families had slaves? No wonder it's still a shitheel today
I think I'm right in saying Mississippi was the last state to ban slavery too. In 1996 or so.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Oct 12, 2017, 03:10 PM
 
They ratified the amendment in 1995.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 12, 2017, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
They ratified the amendment in 1995.
I always forget that.
     
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Oct 12, 2017, 06:14 PM
 
Thats right. It kicked in in 96 I think. I remember Michael Moore chaining up some slaves and dragging them around a shopping mall.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
 
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