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Las Vegas shooting
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mindwaves
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Oct 2, 2017, 06:51 AM
 
So far, 20 dead, 100 injured.



Focusing on the CIS side of this shooting, I would what would it have taken and how long before police could identify the shooter being at the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay. How did they pinpoint the shooting from that particular hotel and how did they decide it was the 32nd floor and which room? How long did it take? I think it was probably mostly guess and check once they identified that it was coming from that hotel. Must have been a very powerful gun considering the distance and height.

(Yes, I know the deaths are horrible, but I'm curious about the CIS aspect of this also.)
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Oct 2, 2017, 07:14 AM
 
Its a wonder attacks like this one aren't more common.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Oct 2, 2017, 07:45 AM
 
That escalated quickly. At my last post it was 20 dead and 100 injured. Now its over 50 and 200.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
mindwaves  (op)
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Oct 2, 2017, 09:52 AM
 
The more plausible answer is someone from a nearby hotel room heard the shooting and notified police.

This is the worse mass shooting in US recent history.

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Oct 2, 2017, 10:28 AM
 
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 2, 2017, 10:36 AM
 
Not the greatest thing to wake up to. Just awful.
     
sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 11:28 AM
 

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And.reg
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:03 PM
 
Very bizarre tragedy. How did his 10 rifles get past Mandalay's security anyway?
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Spheric Harlot
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Very bizarre tragedy. How did his 10 rifles get past Mandalay's security anyway?
Why would they infringe on the basic 'Murican right to carry people-killing devices at all times? Can you imagine the shitstorm if they tried?
     
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Very bizarre tragedy. How did his 10 rifles get past Mandalay's security anyway?
Hotels don't screen luggage or bag contents.
     
sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:34 PM
 
I’d like to know how the John Wayne types would have stopped the gunman, since that’s always the narrative from gun owners. I’m sure if the whole crowd was packing heat on their hips they would have been able to take down an armed-to-the-teeth gunman 30 stories up.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:37 PM
 
I'm also surprised this doesn't happen every day in America, given how much groups like ISIS hate us and how much time they have to sit and prepare. One thing that I suspect keeps this from being a daily occurrence is that it's harder than you'd think to find reasonably intelligent people who are willing to kill themselves.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I have to agree, we must do something about what motivates these people, we can't afford to ignore it anymore. We need to become proactive against religious extremism in a way we never have before.
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sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:43 PM
 
How many mass shootings have ISIS and illegal immigrants been responsible for again?

We need a health care system for every citizen that addresses and treats mental illness as proactively as we stuff peoples mouths full of Opiods.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Why would they infringe on the basic 'Murican right to carry people-killing devices at all times? Can you imagine the shitstorm if they tried?
What? This situation has nothing to do with that, since these weren't the types of guns people carry, anyway. Geez.

Since it looks like these were purchased 100% illegally, it tells me that we aren't doing enough to crack down on black market firearm availability. Personally I know this is a fact, since it's easier to buy such weapons under the table than to go through legit channels.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
How many mass shootings have ISIS and illegal immigrants been responsible for again?
Worldwide? Way too many.

as proactively as we stuff peoples mouths full of Opiods.
If you understood the autoimmune epidemic going on you'd be asking better questions.
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:53 PM
 


"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 12:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Must have been a very powerful gun considering the distance and height.
Higher elevation actually helps.

Even with the height, it looks to be less than 500 yards. This is well within the range of the .308, which is the "standard" hunting round.
     
subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post

How did they pinpoint the shooting from that particular hotel and how did they decide it was the 32nd floor and which room?
Just read at some point so many bullets were fired it set off the smoke alarm.
     
sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post


Yeah people on Twitter are miserable c**ts, lots of racists as well, do either of these fringe elements represent the country as a whole?

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subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:14 PM
 
Whenever I see "automatic weapon" reported, I wonder if it's actually an automatic weapon.

Just heard the tape. Oh, yeah... that's an automatic weapon.
     
sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Worldwide? Way too many.
How about the USA, which was my original point, which you knew and chose to be willfully obtuse again.

Can’t argue that a real, well funded illegal arms task force is a great first step. Limiting legal gun purchases does little to deter folks who buy them illegally anyways.

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Paco500
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:20 PM
 
The first thing I saw this morning was a post from my brother that he and his wife were at a concert in Las Vegas. Then I got in the car and heard the BBC reports about a shooting at concert in Las Vegas.

After small panics, I was able to piece together that they were at a Depeche Mode concert and were actually already in the plane when they closed the airport.

Social media can be great, but it also opens new doors for panic.
     
sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:22 PM
 
I’d also like to point out that the media makes these sick murderers famous, providing a good motivation inside a twisted mind.

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Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
How about the USA
Pointless. These attacks by radical Islam are a worldwide epidemic. However, since you're going to complain until I do segregate America from the rest of the world, for whatever reason, the guns these guys used were already illegal for US citizens to purchase and own, like super illegal, unless you pay a fortune and submit to background checks that are more invasive than a prostate exam performed by the Elephant man. What they were using was military hardware. Ever see the movie Heat with Val Kilmer? That sort of weaponry.

which you knew and chose to be willfully obtuse again.
Blow it out your butt, you start this again and I'll report you. You said nothing about the USA in your post and I'm not your damned punching bag. If you're having a crappy day go find another way to cope. That clear?
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sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
you start this again and I'll report you
Next time just do it then and leave the tough guy act for someone who gives a shit. You knew damn well I meant mass shootings in the USA because thats the topic at hand.

Since we’re now on the same page answer the question “How many mass shootings in the USA are committed by illegal immigrants and/or Muslim extremists? Extra credit for the total death toll as compared to our own home-grown mass murderers.

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subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I’d also like to point out that the media makes these sick murderers famous, providing a good motivation inside a twisted mind.
What's the incidence rate of mass shootings where the intent of the shooter is to become famous? I have no idea what the actual answer is.

My assumption is it's low, because to be honest, that's a more sane thought process then I'm used to from mass shooters.
     
Chongo
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:54 PM
 
ISIS claiming responsibility, says shooter converted months ago.
Is Reuters ok?
http://news.trust.org/item/20171002142139-okyax
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sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:55 PM
 
How is murdering a bunch of people to become infamous a sane thought process? Having everyone hear about your atrocity is literally the backbone of terror, how is mass murder separate from that?

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el chupacabra
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Oct 2, 2017, 01:58 PM
 
You've been fake newsed. Random act of mass violence happen all over the word.
Im just really shocked this could ever happen considering these guns are banned. How did he get past the law?
the largest problem for Americans today is they eat too much food and dont have enough work to do to keep their heart healthy
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
ISIS claiming responsibility, says shooter converted months ago.
Is Reuters ok?
http://news.trust.org/item/20171002142139-okyax
Do you really believe them?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Next time just do it then and leave the tough guy act for someone who gives a shit. You knew damn well I meant mass shootings in the USA because thats the topic at hand.
Standing up to your bully-boy tactics does seem to make you mad. Until you grow up and stop lashing out at me at every turn, you can talk with someone else, because I'm not rewarding your behavior.
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
You've been fake newsed. Random act of mass violence happen all over the word.
Im just really shocked this could ever happen considering these guns are banned. How did he get past the law?
"We need to ban these guns!"
"Those guns were already banned and highly illegal to buy or own."
"... umm..."
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BadKosh
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I’d like to know how the John Wayne types would have stopped the gunman, since that’s always the narrative from gun owners. I’m sure if the whole crowd was packing heat on their hips they would have been able to take down an armed-to-the-teeth gunman 30 stories up.

Painting with a wide ignorance/fictional stereotype brush aren't you?
     
el chupacabra
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post

[How did they pinpoint the shooting from that particular hotel and how did they decide it was the 32nd floor and which room? How long did it take? I think it was probably mostly guess and check once they identified that it was coming from that hotel.
They could hear it for what direction it was coming. It was dark so it may have been very easy to see it flashing out the barrel as it fired.
the largest problem for Americans today is they eat too much food and dont have enough work to do to keep their heart healthy
     
sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Painting with a wide ignorance/fictional stereotype brush aren't you?

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Chongo
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:35 PM
 
There was no mention of SWAT being on duty. Had they been, one of the SWAT snipers could have taken him out after the first round of gunfire.
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subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
How is murdering a bunch of people to become infamous a sane thought process? Having everyone hear about your atrocity is literally the backbone of terror, how is mass murder separate from that?
I chose sane because the idea of mass shooting for fame sounds like what a sane person would come up with to explain a crazy person's behavior rather than a reason an actual crazy person would come up with.

This is going to sound flip, but the kinds of reasons an actual crazy person comes up with almost invariably sound like Alex Jones.

I don't know what word to use to compare killing for fame versus lizard people from the 8th dimension, but that's the distinction I'm trying to make.
     
subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 02:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by el chupacabra View Post
Im just really shocked this could ever happen considering these guns are banned. How did he get past the law?
The fundamental design for most guns is fully-automatic. If the designer wants semi-automatic functionality, they have to put something in to interfere with the inherent fully-automatic design.

In simplified terms, making a semi-automatic weapon fully-automatic involves taking something out, which is easy compared to putting something in.

It's not exactly a trivial modification, but well within the capabilities of someone who has access to a machine shop and the internet.

There also used to be a grey area concerning sale of the components, which if they can be acquired, does make it trivial, but I assume that's been tightened up.
     
sek929
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Do you really believe them?
I claim responsibility for impregnating Jessica Biel

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And.reg
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Why would they infringe on the basic 'Murican right to carry people-killing devices at all times? Can you imagine the shitstorm if they tried?
1. First off, how the heck do you think that carrying 10 cases big enough each for a large weapon wouldn't be the least bit suspicious? Someone ought to have caught that.

2. Second off, what the heck does this have to do with infringing, and what does this have to do with rights? That's a really stupid right for a criminal to walk into lodging with that many classified weapons and should not exist. I am shocked and disappointed that you would defend the arrogant prideful 'Murican patriotism and attitude in their selfish "rights" when the whole issue of infringing/rights don't (and shouldn't) matter in this case. Again, your point of "rights" is irrelevant here, and I didn't mention anything about rights in my original post.

3. Third, there SHOULD be security there, and they SHOULD have the right to investigate anything suspicious. This is Las Vegas, not "Bob's Redneck Depot."

Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Hotels don't screen luggage or bag contents.
????

That's not my point.
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subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
There was no mention of SWAT being on duty. Had they been, one of the SWAT snipers could have taken him out after the first round of gunfire.
That's not how SWAT works. They're all regular cops with regular cop duties. If they were always ready to go, all that regular cop work doesn't get finished.
     
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Whenever I see "automatic weapon" reported, I wonder if it's actually an automatic weapon.

Just heard the tape. Oh, yeah... that's an automatic weapon.
I went through the same process.

"It was a machine gun!"
"Sure it was."
<plays video>
"..............holy crap, it was a machine gun."

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I’d also like to point out that the media makes these sick murderers famous, providing a good motivation inside a twisted mind.
Roger Ebert:

Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.

The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."

In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.
     
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
There was no mention of SWAT being on duty. Had they been, one of the SWAT snipers could have taken him out after the first round of gunfire.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That's not how SWAT works. They're all regular cops with regular cop duties. If they were always ready to go, all that regular cop work doesn't get finished.
I understood they were a dedicated team. I hope in the furture there will be sniper rifle armed officers for these type of events where high buildings are near by.
LVPD snipers took out a perp in Aug.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/n...olice-snipers/
A SWAT negotiation turned deadly Sunday morning when a rifle-wielding man was fatally shot by officers in a west valley neighborhood, according to Metro.
Neighbors who witnessed —€“ and recorded — the event said the man was shot by multiple police snipers who were staged on nearby rooftops after he pointed his rifle at officers.
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subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
1. First off, how the heck do you think that carrying 10 cases big enough each for a large weapon wouldn't be the least bit suspicious? Someone ought to have caught that.
If he drove to the hotel, why would he try to move them all at once?
     
subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
LVPD snipers took out a perp in Aug.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/n...olice-snipers/
I'm saying there would have been no reason for them to have been on duty, because nothing was happening.

I'm sure the team was called up once the shooting started, but with my understanding of the chronology, I doubt they arrived before it was over.
     
And.reg
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If he drove to the hotel, why would he try to move them all at once?
What does it matter?
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subego
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Did he? What does it matter?
I have no idea what he did.

I understand he had a vehicle.

The claim was moving 10 cases is suspicious. My counter is it's not suspicious if they're not all moved at once, which one can do if they have a vehicle.
     
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If he drove to the hotel, why would he try to move them all at once?
Even taking up large cases one trip at a time should have raised red flags. "Hello, police? This guy at our hotel has taken 10 crates, nearly the size of coffins, up to his room. Could you come check this out?"
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What's the incidence rate of mass shootings where the intent of the shooter is to become famous? I have no idea what the actual answer is.

My assumption is it's low, because to be honest, that's a more sane thought process then I'm used to from mass shooters.
http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...contagion.aspx

People who commit mass shootings in America tend to share three traits: rampant depression, social isolation and pathological narcissism, according to a paper presented at the American Psychological Association’s annual convention that calls on the media to deny such shooters the fame they seek.

...

“Unfortunately, we find that a cross-cutting trait among many profiles of mass shooters is desire for fame,” she said. This quest for fame among mass shooters skyrocketed since the mid-1990s “in correspondence to the emergence of widespread 24-hour news coverage on cable news programs, and the rise of the internet during the same period.”
She cited several media contagion models, most notably one proposed by Towers et al. (2015), which found the rate of mass shootings has escalated to an average of one every 12.5 days, and one school shooting on average every 31.6 days, compared to a pre-2000 level of about three events per year. “A possibility is that news of shooting is spread through social media in addition to mass media,” she said.
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http://america.aljazeera.com/article...shootings.html
     
Laminar
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Oct 2, 2017, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
We need to become proactive against religious extremism in a way we never have before.
Why are you bringing religion into this?
     
 
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