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nonhuman · 09:26 PM

Hi, I'm getting hired to set up an Xserve in someone's office, and to transfer the data from their current (Mac) server. The Xserve will have 2x 500 GB drives, that will need to be mirrored. It won't have a video card. Is the best way to handle this to book the Xserve in target disk mode and use another computer to RAID the HDDs and install OS X Server? Obviously once the OS has been installed ARD and Server Admin can be used to get everything else taken care of.

Thanks!

tooki · Jul 19, 2006, 11:06 AM

Well, if you use TDM, you may not get the correct install set -- the installer ALWAYS installs for the machine that the Installer application is running on. (A TDM'd Mac appears only as an external disk -- the installer cannot tell that it's a Mac, nor what model it is.)

I'd consider popping a graphics card in it temporarily. I think the usual idea for the headless xServes is that you have one unit with a graphics card which you use to administer a cluster of headless ones whose disks are cloned from the "master" one.

tooki

nonhuman · Jul 19, 2006, 11:30 AM

Hmm. I suppose I could take the graphics card out of my PC at home, although there's a good chance it will still be in transit when I'm doing this job (I'm in the process of moving to Boston, where this job will be taking place). I suppose I can just buy a cheap video card at CompUSA or something. :/

Damn, and I know for a fact that there's no monitors sitting around at the office I'll be installing this in. I wonder if I can get a really cheap LCD. A little 12" or something would be perfect for this sort of job.

nonhuman · Jul 19, 2006, 11:53 AM

So does anyone know if any old PCI video card will work fine? How about this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143058

And has anyone ever played with one of these: http://www.logicsupply.com/product_i...roducts_id/193 ? It looks pretty cool and it sounds like they're working on Mac drivers for the touch screen. Seems like it would be perfect to use as a portable display for testing out headless servers.

dimmer · Jul 19, 2006, 04:00 PM

Check out Apple's support site. The XServe has been designed with remote, headless management in mind. Target disk mode isn't a good idea.

nonhuman · Jul 19, 2006, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by dimmer

Check out Apple's support site. The XServe has been designed with remote, headless management in mind. Target disk mode isn't a good idea.

Yes, but if you're going to need to re-install the OS, how else are you supposed to do it? If it has no video card, there just isn't any other way.

dimmer · 05:26 PM

You put the Mac OS X Server CD in the Xserve, power it up, walk away, and start up server manager from any Mac on the subnet - easy as pie and you get a working Xserve config with minimum hassle. Schweet!

If it's a new OOTB XServe you don't even need to do that: just be on the same subnet as it with the system you'll be installing from and go. If the XServe -needed- a video card (and the first version did) do you think it'd ship without one?

http://manuals.info.apple.com/Apple_...5UserGuide.PDF

All you need to know. It is a G5 Xserve, right?

Xserve (and Xraid) setup isn't akin to configuring a desktop system or OS X Server on a repurposed desktop. It's enterprise level and amateur hour setups will only reflect badly on the hardware and Apple. May be best to honest up and say you are not in your comfort zone and either offer the setup gratis as it's learning experience for you, or pass the opportunity to a certified Xserve support group. Great as MacNN is, it's not a cure-all.

nonhuman · Jul 19, 2006, 05:41 PM

Um, that document says nothing about being able to re-install the OS by just putting the disk in and using the Server Admin app. In fact it recommends using target disk mode on page 65...

And this is not beyond my comfort level, I've installed and set up OS X Server many times; I do Mac IT professionally, and have for a while now. I've just never had to re-install OS X server on a headless Xserve before, so I wanted to make sure I didn't screw it up.

If the Server Admin thing does work, does it also allow me to get into disk utility? The Xserve will have two 500 GB HDDs installed, and my client wants them RAIDed together. I've done it plenty of times before, but I've always had a monitor and video card to work with. Obviously that part could easily be done in target disk mode, but I'm curious about this now and don't want to just experiment on my client's machine.

dimmer · Jul 19, 2006, 06:16 PM

Yeah, it will do all of that! Doing it headless is a much better way that using disk mode (you can shove a graphics card in and do it that way, but it does have to have a Mac compatible ROM: if it's from a Mac, it'll work; from a PC it's more a "it might"). I wasn't slighting you personally, just wanted to make sure that anyone else on this path didn't think that not using the built-in headless setup was 'wrong' and target mode 'right'.

The Server Admin deal will take you step by step through the setup just as if you were running from the Xserve with a video card in it, so you can config the drives etc. as you see fit. It's a good idea btw to have a root/boot partition on one drive, and mirror data on the other two drives but not the OS (you can have a duplicate 'root/boot' backup on the second for faster recovery, but for HA IP failover is the only way to go: (yeah, needs another Xserve, which kinda sucks). A mirrored system won't recover from one active boot drive to it's mirror expect in the case where the whole HD dies, and even then it requires a reboot.

Note also the TDM is just a complex way of doing what I suggested:

Connecting Another Mac With the Xserve G5 System in Target
Disk Mode
You can also connect a PowerBook, iBook, Xserve G5, or other Mac directly to your
Xserve G5 system. The computer you connect must have a FireWire port and an optical
drive, and the Xserve G5 system must be in target disk mode.
Note: The default name of the server’s startup volume is Server HD. If you connect
another server to your Xserve G5 system, you may want to change the name of its
startup volume temporarily to avoid having two disks with that name when you want
to install.
To put your system into target disk mode and connect a Mac to it:
1 Remove any FireWire devices that are connected to the Xserve G5 system.
2 Use the front panel mode to put the system into target disk mode. See “Entering
Firmware Boot Commands From the System’s Front Panel” on page 63 for instructions;
use light 5.
3 Connect a PowerBook, iBook, or other Mac to the FireWire port on the Xserve G5
system’s front panel.
4 Turn on the connected computer and insert Mac OS X Server Install Disc 1 in its optical
drive.
The Xserve G5 system’s drive or volumes mount on the connected computer.
5 Begin the installation process from the server install disc and install on the mounted
volume of your installation drive (that is, the volume on the Xserve G5 that will be the
system’s startup disk).
Note: You can use either Server Assistant or the Terminal application and commandline
tools to control the installation.
See the PDF document Command-Line Administration on the server website
(www.apple.com/server/documentation/) for more information about using commandline
tools with the Terminal application.

nonhuman · Jul 19, 2006, 06:19 PM

Ah, cool. Thanks.

Although now I'm not justified in buying that cool little LCD...

dimmer · Jul 19, 2006, 06:34 PM

Well, it might be nice to have, on hand, just in case!

BTW, did we clarify the model Xserve this is? If it's first generation G4 Xserve (with the nasty flip out CD tray like the original iMac) it can't do headless; if it's slot load or G5 model, we're golden.

nonhuman · Jul 19, 2006, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by dimmer

Well, it might be nice to have, on hand, just in case!

BTW, did we clarify the model Xserve this is? If it's first generation G4 Xserve (with the nasty flip out CD tray like the original iMac) it can't do headless; if it's slot load or G5 model, we're golden.

True, never can get enough toys after all.

It's a brand new one. Hasn't even been ordered yet (hopefully I'll be doing that tomorrow...).

Dzokayi · Jul 19, 2006, 08:33 PM

Nothing to add except great information exchange in this thread. Let us know how it works out!

nonhuman · Jul 20, 2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dzokayi

Nothing to add except great information exchange in this thread. Let us know how it works out!

I'll definitely do that. Although it probably won't actually happen for a couple weeks (If it happens at all, this particular client is exceedingly stingy and hates to spend money on anything, no matter how essential. This has been in the works for several months now and they still haven't authorized the cost of the new server even though I was able to get them a great discount and they absolutely need to do this if they want to continue growing...).

Waragainstsleep · Jul 27, 2006, 06:29 PM

I wouldn't boot from a mirrored RAID drive if I were you. Or any RAID drive.

mousehouse · Jul 31, 2006, 09:38 AM

Why not?

I suspect that has to do with the way an Xserve handles it's boot volume on a failed software-RAID drive? In that case, didn't Apple offer a hardware RAID card for the Xserve's? That would definately be my recommendation...