[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Isn't the 'left' better connected to the green causes, and those who support them? Where were their suggestions on how best to clean it up? All I hear is silence.

Probably all the sand in your ears. The first suggestion was to not drill in the first place, ergo avoiding this problem all together. The usual suggestions for cleaning up the surface spill is to create a floating barrier around the oil, then use boats to pull the crude into a more manageable surface area. From there there are several other options, unfortunately, none of them as effective as anyone would like them to be.

Since we've yet to encounter a spill like this, people can only speculate on how to contain the subsurface spillage.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Designing better systems for dealing with these kind of surprises looks to be a new industry as the oil industry will have to re-tool for a decade or so.

The current system does works. The problem is forcing corporations to actually invest in applying their preventive measures. All the safeguards in the world are useless if the company running it is completely negligent in their duties.

Apparently BP knew about the faulty shutoff valve for 11 months prior to the disaster. They kept putting off a potentially expensive repair, betting on extracting the oil before any disaster would happen.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Each oil rig should have associated emergency ships standing by. This might have prevented the fires from getting out of control and causing the rig to sink in the first place. It might have been able to rescue the workers too. We will never know.

Each oil rig does have life boats and emergency vehicles. Again, it's up to BP to keep these safety features readily available. They don't.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

I think BP never wanted anything like this to happen, and now it's gonna ruin many lives as the company goes under or bankruptcy.

You mean like how the Exxon Valdez disaster (which we're still cleaning up, by the way) destroyed Exxon? They put ton of money into marketing and bet on the average person's exceedingly short memory to forget about it. A mere 10 years after the spill and Exxon was one of the most profitable companies in the world again. They still are, even post market crash.

BP is not worried, nor do they care, except for the barrels of oil they report "saving" every day. They'll simply put the Spin Machine all the way to 11, wait a few years, and they'll be back on track like nothing happened.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Politicians never talk to the leading engineers and those who design and maintain the systems whether it's a Space Shuttle, Locomotive, oil drilling and refineries, coal mining and burning and other such industries or unique complex machines like the shuttle.

Wait, let me take a screenshot. This is awesome. The guy that says scientific method is useless is complaining that politicians never talk to the scientists. I thought you'd be the first person in line with a huge sign applauding them for ignoring those windbags. They don't know what they're talking about, remember? It's all political hackery.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

I dunno, but perhaps those who are predisposed to be politicians may also not be mechanically inclined, or able to see things in simple obvious ways.

I'm sure a few of them have engineering degrees. However, millions of dollars in lobbying money is more important to them.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Probably all the sand in your ears. The first suggestion was to not drill in the first place, ergo avoiding this problem all together. The usual suggestions for cleaning up the surface spill is to create a floating barrier around the oil, then use boats to pull the crude into a more manageable surface area. From there there are several other options, unfortunately, none of them as effective as anyone would like them to be.

Obviously you can't see that this isn't a solution? Lets not drill anywhere. We've been waiting for all these new greener energy solutions but that hasn't happened. We can't wait for environmentalist wackos to offer realistic solutions. It just doesn't happen with liberals.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Since we've yet to encounter a spill like this, people can only speculate on how to contain the subsurface spillage.

agreed.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

The current system does works. The problem is forcing corporations to actually invest in applying their preventive measures. All the safeguards in the world are useless if the company running it is completely negligent in their duties.

So, Obama won't be giving BP that award?

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Apparently BP knew about the faulty shutoff valve for 11 months prior to the disaster. They kept putting off a potentially expensive repair, betting on extracting the oil before any disaster would happen.

And they will pay for it.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Each oil rig does have life boats and emergency vehicles. Again, it's up to BP to keep these safety features readily available. They don't.

Are they the only ones who are slacking?

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

You mean like how the Exxon Valdez disaster (which we're still cleaning up, by the way) destroyed Exxon? They put ton of money into marketing and bet on the average person's exceedingly short memory to forget about it. A mere 10 years after the spill and Exxon was one of the most profitable companies in the world again. They still are, even post market crash.

I still remember when the President of Exxon said they were done paying. Haven't used their gas since.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

BP is not worried, nor do they care, except for the barrels of oil they report "saving" every day. They'll simply put the Spin Machine all the way to 11, wait a few years, and they'll be back on track like nothing happened.

Business as usual for many kinds of businesses and political types.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Wait, let me take a screenshot. This is awesome. The guy that says scientific method is useless is complaining that politicians never talk to the scientists. I thought you'd be the first person in line with a huge sign applauding them for ignoring those windbags. They don't know what they're talking about, remember? It's all political hackery.

WRONG. Scientific methods are fine if actually practiced. Tampering with data isn't it however.

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I'm sure a few of them have engineering degrees. However, millions of dollars in lobbying money is more important to them.

The majority don't seem to have a clue.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Probably all the sand in your ears. The first suggestion was to not drill in the first place, ergo avoiding this problem all together.

No... the solution would've been not to drill this deeply offshore to begin with, but cowering to the green lobby shows yet another good, warm-fuzzy intention gone bad.

Since we've yet to encounter a spill like this, people can only speculate on how to contain the subsurface spillage.

The unique feature of this spill from the reactionary perspective is its size. It seems reasonable instead of allowing BP (govt knew) to skew the amount low to avoid public outrage, react with a reasonable degree of urgency including deploying all booms, all hands on deck, all countries, boats, and assistance, all of it. Hay, powder, skimmers, dog hair... whatever you got If not within the first 15 days, at least within the first 30.

The current system does works. The problem is forcing corporations to actually invest in applying their preventive measures. All the safeguards in the world are useless if the company running it is completely negligent in their duties.

BP wasn't completely negligent. Again (for the thousandth time) the point of failure is thought to be the blow-out preventer; Transocean's architecture awarded by the MMS for safe operations. All the safeguards and regulations and laws and actions will still allow for cowering to lobbyists of all shapes and sizes, sex, drugs, favoritism, corruption, waste, fraud, and abuse. Again, you'll have no teeth if you're pulling them for the gold fillings. BP? Absolutely. Federal government? You know it. 50/50. Period.

Apparently BP knew about the faulty shutoff valve for 11 months prior to the disaster.

It'll be interesting to know what and who of the MMS is exposed in the investigations as it seems they too may have been aware when they granted the go-ahead without the required impact studies. Lots of kickbacks and perks going around.

Each oil rig does have life boats and emergency vehicles. Again, it's up to BP to keep these safety features readily available. They don't.

Yup... and booms and the Coast Guard and... wait I don't recall seeing lawyers in the decades-old gulf disaster preparedness initiatives that occurred as a result of the Exxon debacle.

You mean like how the Exxon Valdez disaster (which we're still cleaning up, by the way) destroyed Exxon? They put ton of money into marketing and bet on the average person's exceedingly short memory to forget about it. A mere 10 years after the spill and Exxon was one of the most profitable companies in the world again. They still are, even post market crash.

While the MMS is unaware of how much oil is being produced by the industry we pay for it to "oversee" they're intimately familiar with Exxon's books as beneficiaries of its kickbacks and perks. Quite a cozy relationship the government has developed with big oil. I can avoid BP or Exxon, I can't avoid the government.

BP is not worried, nor do they care, except for the barrels of oil they report "saving" every day. They'll simply put the Spin Machine all the way to 11, wait a few years, and they'll be back on track like nothing happened.

To compare this travesty with the Exxon spill has been laughable for over a month now in scope. Make no mistake, this'll hurt. The only thing that props failed businesses of this size up is government. I'd be willing to bet that BP cares a hell of a lot more about their bottom line than Obama a lost vote for absolute incompetence as a leader. They'll both pay dearly.

I'm sure a few of them have engineering degrees. However, millions of dollars in lobbying money is more important to them.

To who, an Administration more beholden to Corporate lobby than any to date? BP is losing billions here. Let's not pretend they don't care.

[BadKosh]

Our president did a lousy job last night. Blather and suggestions for YET MORE TAXES. No solutions, no direction. no point in wasting prime-time TV bandwidth either. He makes Carter look good. I guess you libs who pissed your votes for him last time didn't care that he had no experience leading anything. Will you ever learn?

[hyteckit]

What we have learned.

Pres. Bush was an awful president.
Government is too cozy with corporate lobbyist.
Need more oversight.
Less oil drilling.

Need a more liberal president than Pres. Obama who is a wallstreet pro-business moderate.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

What we have learned.

Pres. Bush was an awful president.
Government is too cozy with corporate lobbyist.
Need more oversight.
Less oil drilling.

Need a more liberal president than Pres. Obama who is a wallstreet pro-business moderate.

Pro BP Obama, who took more money from BP than anyone else in recent history? Good thing those cozy lobbyists are around huh?

Why do you assume Obama has been anything but anti-business? Where are those Jobs? They won't be created because of the punishing taxes and such the anti-business liberal TAXn Spend Dems have put in place.

[Lint Police]

Jimmy Carter is a happy man today.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Obviously you can't see that this isn't a solution? Lets not drill anywhere. We've been waiting for all these new greener energy solutions but that hasn't happened. We can't wait for environmentalist wackos to offer realistic solutions. It just doesn't happen with liberals.

The solutions are already available, but you're only half right. The liberals don't have the spine to implement the measures and the conservatives don't see a way to make more money off it than they do with oil; both camps are so deep in lobbyist money that neither one will do anything. We could create a ton of money and jobs simply by having every commercial building affix a single solar panel on their roof.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Are they the only ones who are slacking?

I'd be very surprised if there was a single oil company that didn't cut corners when it comes to safety. Corporations can not be trusted to govern themselves. Deregulation has left any sort of regulatory service completely neutered, so this is what we get.

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

WRONG. Scientific methods are fine if actually practiced. Tampering with data isn't it however.

You were against any study before you misinterpreted "climategate" and came to the wrong conclusion that the data was tampered with. Three separate investigations found zero evidence of malpractice, manipulation, or any other crap you read into on FOX News and Rush Limbaugh. You're still perpetuating it.

You're attacking the very same scientific principals used to study our planet's climate in all its intricacies, that are used for evolution, for the theory of gravity, and for the applied sciences used to create the computer you're using to argue on a network designed and implemented by said principals.

You complain that politicians aren't consulting scientists who study fluid dynamics and organic chemistry while simultaneously criticizing politicians consulting scientists who study climatology.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

No... the solution would've been not to drill this deeply offshore to begin with, but cowering to the green lobby shows yet another good, warm-fuzzy intention gone bad.

I don't think the distance off shore would have made any difference in BP's or Obama's ineptitude.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

The unique feature of this spill from the reactionary perspective is its size. It seems reasonable instead of allowing BP (govt knew) to skew the amount low to avoid public outrage, react with a reasonable degree of urgency including deploying all booms, all hands on deck, all countries, boats, and assistance, all of it. Hay, powder, skimmers, dog hair... whatever you got If not within the first 15 days, at least within the first 30.

100% agree.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

BP wasn't completely negligent. Again (for the thousandth time) the point of failure is thought to be the blow-out preventer; Transocean's architecture awarded by the MMS for safe operations.

As I stated, any regulatory service has been completely neutered from deregulation at the behest of lobbyists. BP was completely negligent. They knew there was a problem, but they went on anyway.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

It'll be interesting to know what and who of the MMS is exposed in the investigations as it seems they too may have been aware when they granted the go-ahead without the required impact studies. Lots of kickbacks and perks going around.

I'd like to see some prison sentences, top government and regulatory officials fired, but it's never going to happen.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I can avoid BP or Exxon, I can't avoid the government.

I don't think so, not unless you want to avoid using any petroleum based products. It would be impossible to avoid using all plastics. You're going to use BP and Exxon whether you like it or not.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I'd be willing to bet that BP cares a hell of a lot more about their bottom line...

That's what caused the problem in the first place. I have no doubt in my mind their only care is for their bottom line.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

To who, an Administration more beholden to Corporate lobby than any to date? BP is losing billions here. Let's not pretend they don't care.

They care very much about the money, just not much anything else. Right now their priorities are not cleaning up the oil spill, but how to spin it so it doesn't look so bad. Their concerns are who they have to bribe next election (with no limitation on corporate kickbacks now, they'll have a relatively easy job of it), not what technologies would be most effective in cleaning up this and future oil spills.

[besson3c]

olepigeon: what I don't get is why the potential to make new kinds of money doesn't allure beyond the old money/lobbyist money?

I can understand the idea of some risk, how prices don't come down until there is mass-production, etc. but whomever can produce some sort of energy source that can reduce energy bills that businesses have to pay for in such a stark and dramatic fashion that you'd be an idiot to *not* jump aboard the bandwagon is going to make insane boatloads of money.

Some might say that we are on the verge with wind and solar, and beyond larger businesses (who I would suspect would be the first to adopt this), there is also every home in America. Why aren't people running, and not walking towards this kind of money making? I mean, if you can move to owning your power source (e.g. wind/solar) rather than paying per usage and subscribing to a service, who wouldn't want this?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

olepigeon: what I don't get is why the potential to make new kinds of money doesn't allure beyond the old money/lobbyist money?

That's easy.
- The established practices for making old money have become easy.
- They don't have to convince people to purchase their product.
- It takes less effort to fight to maintain old business models than it does to develop new ones.
- Decades of effort have been spent getting government into their pockets.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

No... the solution would've been not to drill this deeply offshore to begin with, but cowering to the green lobby shows yet another good, warm-fuzzy intention gone bad.

Are you suggesting that the oil companies have zero interest in deep-water oil? I can pretty much guarantee that they'd be heading out there anyways after all the shallow-water oil was consumed.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

We've been waiting for all these new greener energy solutions but that hasn't happened.

"Waiting" isn't very productive. If *I* lived in a country that was so concerned about being dependent on a resource that I had to obtain from my enemies, I'd want the *whole* energy industry to be exploring *all* alternatives: alternative sources for oil and alternative sources for energy.

Are they the only ones who are slacking?

Nope.

[ironknee]

there's a bunch of hicks here flip flopping on the government...

and some are even defending bp.... hicks

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

Jimmy Carter is a happy man today.

Indeed.

[Montezuma58]

At least the Governor of Florida is on the beaches doing what is necessary.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Montezuma58 

At least the Governor of Florida is on the beaches doing what is necessary.

Just making sure the girls are not covered in oil. Or at least the wrong kind of oil.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Pro BP Obama, who took more money from BP than anyone else in recent history? Good thing those cozy lobbyists are around huh?

Why do you assume Obama has been anything but anti-business? Where are those Jobs? They won't be created because of the punishing taxes and such the anti-business liberal TAXn Spend Dems have put in place.

Maybe corporate whore Republican Rep. Joe Barton? Took $1.4 million in contributions from BP.

Pres. Obama is being a big meanie.

Joe Barton, BP Apologist, In '04: Offshore Drilling So Safe, A Gum Wrapper Won't Even Fall Off Platform

[BadKosh]

I Dunno......

Obama biggest recipient of BP cash - Erika Lovley - POLITICO.com

[ort888]

So of the $750 million he raised... $77,000 came from BP?

That's means that like .0001 percent of what he raised came right from BP!!!! OMG!!!!!

That's like giving a $5 bill to a man who takes home $50,000 a year (after taxes) .

You can just see the strings going from the President of BP right to Obama.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ort888 

So of the $750 million he raised... $77,000 came from BP?

Why, that means that 1/10,000 of what he raised came right from BP!!!! OMG!!!!! That's like .0001 percent!

You can just see the strings going from the President of BP right to Obama.

Still not cool if it is true, since Obama said at the time that he wasn't taking money from PACs...

[besson3c]

Actually, wait... Didn't Obama decide to accept money from PACs after Hilary Clinton did the same? I can't remember.... Still, no matter what I'm definitely not a fan of this.

[ort888]

According to that article the 77,000 was not from PACs, but rather individual contributors with ties to BP.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

I Dunno......

Obama biggest recipient of BP cash - Erika Lovley - POLITICO.com

I'm pretty sure $1.4 million is much bigger than $77 thousand.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Maybe corporate whore Republican Rep. Joe Barton? Took $1.4 million in contributions from BP.

Pres. Obama is being a big meanie.

Money given to Republicans from Big Oil doesn't count.

[hyteckit]

Rep. Joe Barton Likes BP -- and the Company Likes Him Back with Cash - OpenSecrets Blog | OpenSecrets

Oil & Gas: Money to Congress | OpenSecrets

Wow, all Republicans except for 2 Democrats.

Top 20 recipients of Gas & Oil contributions:

McCain, John (R-AZ) $2,677,064
Hutchison, Kay Bailey (R-TX) $2,137,225
Gramm, Phil (R-TX) $1,682,814
Cornyn, John (R-TX) $1,638,450
Barton, Joe (R-TX) $1,447,880
Inhofe, James M (R-OK) $1,228,223
Pearce, Steve (R-NM) $981,272
Young, Don (R-AK) $980,263
Obama, Barack (D) $973,051
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) $860,261
Nickles, Don (R-OK) $841,388
Vitter, David (R-LA) $783,835
Dole, Bob (R) $781,705
Landrieu, Mary L (D-LA) $757,744
Domenici, Pete V (R-NM) $747,897
DeLay, Tom (R-TX) $689,840
Conaway, Mike (R-TX) $651,718
Sessions, Pete (R-TX) $642,864
Tiahrt, Todd (R-KS) $618,773
Santorum, Rick (R-PA) $614,178

[hyteckit]

BP contributions to Obama.

$1000?

https://www.fecwatch.org/pacs/pacgot...103&cycle=2004


Damn. I just realize I'm more of a journalist than the Politico blog. I actually research for facts.

[Wiskedjak]

Fixed that for ya to reflect what BadKosh will see.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Top 20 recipients of Gas & Oil contributions:

McCain, John (R-AZ) $2,677,064
Hutchison, Kay Bailey (R-TX) $2,137,225
Gramm, Phil (R-TX) $1,682,814
Cornyn, John (R-TX) $1,638,450
Barton, Joe (R-TX) $1,447,880
Inhofe, James M (R-OK) $1,228,223
Pearce, Steve (R-NM) $981,272
Young, Don (R-AK) $980,263
Obama, Barack (D) $973,051
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY) $860,261
Nickles, Don (R-OK) $841,388
Vitter, David (R-LA) $783,835
Dole, Bob (R) $781,705
Landrieu, Mary L (D-LA) $757,744
Domenici, Pete V (R-NM) $747,897
DeLay, Tom (R-TX) $689,840
Conaway, Mike (R-TX) $651,718
Sessions, Pete (R-TX) $642,864
Tiahrt, Todd (R-KS) $618,773
Santorum, Rick (R-PA) $614,178

Seriously, BadKosh, I'm surprised you want to get into the realm of campaign donations to politicians by oil companies.

[Kerrigan]

Obama is taking dithering to a whole new level.

[BadKosh]

All while not actually helping, but geting in the way of the clean-up...

BP Oil Spill: Against Gov. Bobby Jindal's Wishes, Crude-Sucking Barges Stopped by Coast Guard - ABC News

[The Final Dakar]

Haha, love the change of subject.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Haha, love the change of subject.

I think all of this is therapy for BadKosh.

[BadKosh]

And lets only do the clean up part-time.


Obama's Spill Recovery Chief Will Be Part-Time - ABC News

[besson3c]

Are you subscribed to some sort of "links to bad stuff about Obama" RSS feed aggregate or something BadKosh?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Are you subscribed to some sort of "links to bad stuff about Obama" RSS feed aggregate or something BadKosh?

Talk Radio - Listen Live - Rush Limbaugh, Bill Oreilly, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Don Imus, Neal Boortz, Laura Ingraham, Laura Ingram

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Money given to Republicans from Big Oil doesn't count.

Right just like money given to Democrats and governmental regulatory agencies from Big Oil doesn't count.

Commence with the usual agreement/disagreement.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Are you subscribed to some sort of "links to bad stuff about Obama" RSS feed aggregate or something BadKosh?

He might just be connected to media that is critical of this Administration. Eureka! Imagine that. The audacity!

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Haha, love the change of subject.

Yeah... changing the subject from how much money Barton got from BP to how the Obama Administration is reacting to this gulf disaster in a thread comparing the BP disaster with Katrina.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Right just like money given to Democrats and governmental regulatory agencies from Big Oil doesn't count.

Commence with the usual agreement/disagreement.

Sure. It's just funny to see BadKosh getting wound up over Barry's $77,000 from BP ($973,000 total from Oil) when 8 Republican representatives received more from Oil, and the Republican Presidential Candidate received *significantly* more.

I'm just pointing out BadKosh's hypocrisy. No intent to defend "contributions" to Democrats. They're *all* crooks and cheats as far as I'm concerned.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Sure. It's just funny to see BadKosh getting wound up over Barry's $77,000 from BP ($973,000 total from Oil) when 8 Republican representatives received more from Oil, and the Republican Presidential Candidate received *significantly* more.

I'm just pointing out BadKosh's hypocrisy. No intent to defend "contributions" to Democrats. They're *all* crooks and cheats as far as I'm concerned.

While I might agree that Badkosh may have been better served bringing up the contributions of Big Labor to Obama that is obviously affecting Obama's judgment to bring skimmers in from abroad, it seems you're consistently talking about how "conservatives" would regard this and that and taking issue with criticism of this Administration or government in general. If they're all crooks and liars, why so quick to pick up on others' criticism of it? Were you this defensive of the Bush Administration?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

it seems you're consistently talking about how "conservatives" would regard this and that and taking issue with criticism of this Administration or government in general.

Absolutely I am, because the hypocrisy between what was defended in the last administration and what is being attacked in this administration is so painfully/humorously obvious.

If they're all crooks and liars, why so quick to pick up on others' criticism of it? Were you this defensive of the Bush Administration?

I'm sorry if I come across as defending the Obama administration. That is not my intent as I find him to be quite meh. I likely would have drawn attention to Democrat hypocrisy during Bush's administration had I been more politically aware during Clinton's admin.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Absolutely I am, because the hypocrisy between what was defended in the last administration and what is being attacked in this administration is so painfully/humorously obvious.

I'm sorry if I come across as defending the Obama administration. That is not my intent as I find him to be quite meh. I likely would have drawn attention to Democrat hypocrisy during Bush's administration had I been more politically aware during Clinton's admin.

I don't know, I'd probably take your crusade against hypocrisy a little more seriously if you had seized upon any of the bulk of it coming from the left in their shameless Obama Administration apologetics of late; particularly in a thread comparing the Federal response to two incidents in the Gulf which didn't seem to interest you as much as proving BadKosh was capable of hypocrisy in your opinion, on campaign donations.

After all, what strikes you as more egregious; a Republican receives $1.4 million from Big Oil in exchange for an apology to an oil giant or a Democrat who accepts over $60 million from Big Labor in exchange for declining foreign aid in our cleanup effort in the Gulf?

[ort888]

You guys know who I hate? Barrack Obama.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by ort888 

You guys know who I hate?

Anyone who doesn't think like you?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Anyone who doesn't think like you?

I think anybody who doesn't just want to bitch and moan about all things government in general has been pretty much marginalized from these sorts of threads, and many others.

[ironknee]

so... this thread means katrina was a bad thing for bush?

yet i remember all you wing nuts defending bush at the time... make up ur minds

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

so... this thread means katrina was a bad thing for bush?

yet i remember all you wing nuts defending bush at the time... make up ur minds

This thread is actually about Catrina.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

No... the solution would've been not to drill this deeply offshore to begin with, but cowering to the green lobby shows yet another good, warm-fuzzy intention gone bad.

washingtonpost.com

"Unless of course that's where the oil is. Willie Sutton robbed banks because that's where the money is. And oil companies venture into deep waters for exploration because that's where the oil is."

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Sure. It's just funny to see BadKosh getting wound up over Barry's $77,000 from BP ($973,000 total from Oil) when 8 Republican representatives received more from Oil, and the Republican Presidential Candidate received *significantly* more.

I'm just pointing out BadKosh's hypocrisy. No intent to defend "contributions" to Democrats. They're *all* crooks and cheats as far as I'm concerned.

Who's in power now? Did THEY take money. Yup. So when the spill occurred, What did the Obama admin do? Besides screw around for over a week?

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think anybody who doesn't just want to bitch and moan about all things government in general has been pretty much marginalized from these sorts of threads, and many others.

Bess,

Just like in the other thread. Before we can make positive change on policy we must make positive change on our politicians. Frankly, a large portion of right and left leaning citizens will be deaf to the propaganda of the current administration/congress. The appetite for reform and massive changes will resurge once our governmental system is fixed (returned to how it was intended to be). Until then, any an all legislation coming from these boobs will be considered hostile. Hell, these people aren't even reading the bills they are passing...Thats their one ****ing job - To vote on proposed legislation, and they can't even do the first step in that process correctly.

I will stop bitching and moaning when you stop supporting the destruction of this country. You and I don't fall far off from each other when it comes to policy - I just feel you are woefully naive of the implications of attempting to enact that legislation in the midst of corruption. Ever heard the phrase "do it right or don't do it all"? Thats where we're coming from. And the track record of our current administration/congress puts most of us squarely in the "don't do it all" camp. Help us clean this country up and I'll gladly support you in "do it right."