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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > I tinkered around with a MBP at the Apple Store today--impressions inside.

I tinkered around with a MBP at the Apple Store today--impressions inside.
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tictactoe
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Feb 26, 2006, 08:39 PM
 
My girlfriend and I stopped by the Apple Store to see if they had the new MBP's, turned out they had 3 on display. I immediately hopped on one and started testing everything out.

I'll give you a little background on my Apple experience first. I've been a Windows guy all my life, then switched over after I bought a 12" 1.33ghz PB. I later exchanged that for a 15" 1.5ghz PB. I really liked OSX and it's features, but something about the interface bothered me. It didn't feel as "snappy" as XP and that bothered me a lot. I ended up selling my 15" PB and building my own gaming machine instead. I quickly realized that a laptop would be more useful to me (I'm a college student), so I sold my gaming computer and bought an IBM Thinkpad T42 (1.8ghz, 1.5gb ram, 60gb 7200rpm HD). That's what I'm typing this review on, but somehow I'm using OSX 10.4.3 right now

The unit I played around on was the 2.0ghz model with 512mb ram and the 5400rpm HD.

- It's noticably thinner and noticably wider than the 15" PB, I didn't like that it was wider, but I liked that it was thinner, so that was a draw. I also like that the trackpad is wider.

- I played around with PhotoBooth, which was a lot of fun (my girlfriend got a kick out of it too).

- I really like that it has 2 latches vs. 1. I was always worried I was going to break the single latch on my 15" PB.

- The screen really doesn't tilt back that far, which made it hard to use because I was standing up. I don't imagine I'd have problems using it everyday on my desk. I might have problems with it on my lap because I'm 6'3" and I generally lean over the screen.

- I played a couple 1080p videos off of Apple's Quicktime HD gallery and they played fine, which was definitely not the case on my old PB.

- I ran XBench and got a score of ~50 something, which IIRC, isn't much better than the G4 PB I used to have. I made sure I had it set to "Better Performance." I think I may have done something wrong.

- It didn't get that warm during my use. The warmest part was near the top of the left speaker. The bottom got warm, but it was nothing bad.

- The screen is quite bright...much nicer than my old G4 PB and my T42.

- Battery life isn't impressive. At 100% charge, I set it for better battery life, turned off bluetooth, WiFi was on, closed every application other than Safari, set the screen brightness to the 2nd lowest, and unplugged it. I let it calculate while I browsed the web and after 2-3 minutes, it showed ~3:00 left. IIRC, my G4 PB, with those same settings, got between 3:30-3:45. I can't complain much because it is A LOT faster, but I was still a little disappointed. As is, my T42 with a 1.8ghz Pentium M and 7200rpm HD can go almost 5 hours on battery life with those same settings in Windows XP. That's 5 hours on a 6 cell battery...I can get a little over 7 hours out of a 9 cell battery

- The keyboard feels better than my T42, which is something I never thought I'd say. In fact, I wish I was typing on a MBP right now. It had a nicer feel than my old G4 PB's keyboard as well (less clicky).

- Everything loads really fast. That delay and lack of "snappiness" that made me sell my G4 PB is gone. Safari, Word, Excel, etc loaded up almost instantly (I made sure they were loading for the first time vs. being open and just opening a new document). I was very impressed with the speed.

Overall, I liked it. I'm thinking about selling my T42 and buying a MBP now that the thing that bothered me the most about OSX is history. That and my T42 doesn't run OSX x86 very well ...it is reminding me though that I miss OSX...I knew I shouldn't have installed OSX!
     
MacG33k
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Feb 26, 2006, 08:46 PM
 
Did they have one in stock for sale? Apparently CompUSA in NYC had it for few hours before they sold out.
     
tictactoe  (op)
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Feb 26, 2006, 08:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacG33k
Did they have one in stock for sale? Apparently CompUSA in NYC had it for few hours before they sold out.
I didn't ask.
     
urrl78
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Feb 26, 2006, 09:04 PM
 
I like and appreciate your review. I'm in the process of selling my PC laptop but not sure I'll be buying a MPB any time soon. I may try to wait and see if Apple can come up with something smaller in dual core; I am spoiled by the portability of my 10.6" screen Sony T250 but not impressed with its speed, especially with the shared memory. I also, like you, have a 1.5 Ghz Powerbook 17" and have never really been impressed with the speed. It is something I can be quite happy with however till Apple comes up with something smaller, since it gets the job done quite reliably.
     
John O'Shaughnessy
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Feb 26, 2006, 09:12 PM
 
How far back does the screen tilt? If straight up and down is 90 degrees, and laying open flat is 180 degrees, does it do 160 degrees? Only 135 degrees? I've currently got ThinkPad T41, and sometimes use it at 135 degrees.
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tictactoe  (op)
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Feb 26, 2006, 09:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by John O'Shaughnessy
How far back does the screen tilt? If straight up and down is 90 degrees, and laying open flat is 180 degrees, does it do 160 degrees? Only 135 degrees? I've currently got ThinkPad T41, and sometimes use it at 135 degrees.
135 degrees would be my best estimate, but it might be a little less.
     
rtamesis
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Feb 26, 2006, 09:45 PM
 
Nothing beats a Powerbook 2000 Pismo when it comes to bending that screen back. This baby goes all the way.
     
tictactoe  (op)
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Feb 26, 2006, 09:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by rtamesis
Nothing beats a Powerbook 2000 Pismo when it comes to bending that screen back. This baby goes all the way.
My T42 bends back all the way, but I've never found a use for it
     
AmericanPsych0
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Feb 26, 2006, 10:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by tictactoe
- The keyboard feels better than my T42, which is something I never thought I'd say. In fact, I wish I was typing on a MBP right now. It had a nicer feel than my old G4 PB's keyboard as well (less clicky).
I thought the keyboard felt slightly different from my now-sold 12" PB, but I couldn't be sure (since I haven't had my PB for over a month now). Good to know I'm not crazy. Oh, and it was certainly a nice-different feeling, too.
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Velocity211
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Feb 26, 2006, 11:50 PM
 
Does the screen on the 15in Powerbook bend back farther than the MBP?
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tictactoe  (op)
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Feb 27, 2006, 01:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Velocity211
Does the screen on the 15in Powerbook bend back farther than the MBP?
Yes, a lot farther.
     
mduell
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Feb 27, 2006, 01:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Velocity211
Does the screen on the 15in Powerbook bend back farther than the MBP?
Yes, by about 10 degrees; 120-130 deg for MBP and 130-140 deg for PB.
     
Big Mac
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Feb 27, 2006, 02:11 AM
 
What happens when you get the point at which the screen no longer goes back? Does it just stop with a lot of resistance felt, or does it feel like it could break? I really don't know what that's like because the only reference I have is my clamshell iBook, which goes all the way back and has remained as firm as the day I got it.

My iBook is five years old now, and while it feels slow at times I still adore it. Perhaps that's because it's my first laptop, but I really do think it has held up very well.

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dndog
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Feb 27, 2006, 03:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac
What happens when you get the point at which the screen no longer goes back? Does it just stop with a lot of resistance felt, or does it feel like it could break?
The back of the screen is physically limited, as it hits the base of the computer. The Powerbook/MacBookPro's aluminum build is very durable, and wont' have any "wobbly screen," if that is what you are worrying about.
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tictactoe  (op)
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Feb 27, 2006, 05:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by dndog
The back of the screen is physically limited, as it hits the base of the computer. The Powerbook/MacBookPro's aluminum build is very durable, and wont' have any "wobbly screen," if that is what you are worrying about.
^ what he said.
     
TheTraveller
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Feb 27, 2006, 11:54 AM
 
I am the guy who started this poll, here:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=286930

So I stopped in to the Palo Alto Mac store and checked out the MacBook Pros they had there. I had my credit card ready, just in case. I was standing (I'm 5'9) over the laptop and had the screen titled back as far as it would go. It was useable for me, but if I had been able to tilt the screen back farther, I would have. It kind of bugged me a bit that I couldn't.

Also, about the heat: it did seem hotter than my PowerBook G4. It seemed odd that it was so hot, given that it wasn't really running any programs and it was only 11:15 AM so I doubt it had been switched on all that long.

It also didn't blow me away in terms of performance. Granted, I only played with it for 20 minutes or so, so I really didn't get into anything too seriously. It was snappy, for sure, and did a good job loading MS Office and such, but it didn't feel like a night-and-day difference compared to what I have now.

I found myself thinking...I'll wait for Rev B.
     
gperks
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Feb 27, 2006, 12:59 PM
 
>It also didn't blow me away in terms of performance.

I was convinced by running iCal. Took a second or so the first time - HD reading. Quit iCal and relaunch. A "Boom" moment for sure. Came up instantly.

Tried the same steps on my 1.25GHz at home. More like "boom-boom-boom", a three-step process of window appearing, calendars being listed, and drawer sliding out.

A noticeably faster process on the MacBook.

Try playing some HD video for more convincing.

Still, bummer about the heat and I know I've wished my AlBook screen would tilt back further than it does. Inconsequetial details, or deal-breakers? I'm torn and might as well wait until the backlog gets cleared a little.
     
TheBum
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Feb 27, 2006, 04:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by tictactoe
The unit I played around on was the 2.0ghz model with 512mb ram and the 5400rpm HD.
Are you sure? 512 MB of RAM is not an available configuration option in the online Apple store for the 2.0 GHz MBP. The least you can get is 1 GB.

I, too, got some play time last Friday and I guess the impact it makes on a person depends on their reference point. I have an 867 MHz 12" PowerBook and the 2.0 GHz MBP absolutely screamed in comparison. I played some of the HD H.264 movies on the hard drive and they played back very smoothly. I probably would have gotten less than 1 frame per second on my PowerBook with those same movies.

It was an expensive trip, too: I promptly went home and ordered one (if they had had any in stock, I probably would have jumped at the chance), even though I previously had no intention of replacing my PowerBook until fall.
     
tictactoe  (op)
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Feb 27, 2006, 09:02 PM
 
It must have been 1gb then.
     
Zeeb
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Feb 27, 2006, 09:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheTraveller
I am the guy who started this poll, here:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=286930

So I stopped in to the Palo Alto Mac store and checked out the MacBook Pros they had there. I had my credit card ready, just in case. I was standing (I'm 5'9) over the laptop and had the screen titled back as far as it would go. It was useable for me, but if I had been able to tilt the screen back farther, I would have. It kind of bugged me a bit that I couldn't.

Also, about the heat: it did seem hotter than my PowerBook G4. It seemed odd that it was so hot, given that it wasn't really running any programs and it was only 11:15 AM so I doubt it had been switched on all that long.

It also didn't blow me away in terms of performance. Granted, I only played with it for 20 minutes or so, so I really didn't get into anything too seriously. It was snappy, for sure, and did a good job loading MS Office and such, but it didn't feel like a night-and-day difference compared to what I have now.

I found myself thinking...I'll wait for Rev B.
I checked out the MBP at my local Apple store as well. Overall, I was very impressed--fast computer and very sleek. If I really needed a new machine I would have ordered one without hesitation. If you already have a computer that you're looking to replace but can hold out a while longer--do.

The screen really does need to tilt back further and the downgraded optical drive is also a surprising and unfortunate compromise. Dual Core laptops from almost every other manufacturer are paired with Dual Layer burning DVD drives. Yes, I know they were downgraded to make it thinner--but its not that much thinner to be worth the drive downgrade.

I'm not a person who is frightened of revision A machines just because they are revision A, but if you don't immediately need a computer I think its a good idea to hold off for an update to the Macbook Pro --or see what the new intel "Ibook"(if its still called that) looks like.
     
hmp
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Feb 27, 2006, 11:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by tictactoe
The unit I played around on was the 2.0ghz model with 512mb ram and the 5400rpm HD.
I too went to the Apple Store the other day - three units on display as well. All three were 2.0 ghz with 1.5 gb ram. I didn't check on the hard drive speed.

All I know was that it was FAST. I'm not too sure why Apple decided to go with 1.5gb ram on their display models though. Wouldn't they want to do 2 gig (2x1gb) so it could get the full performance?
     
John123
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Feb 28, 2006, 12:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by hmp
I too went to the Apple Store the other day - three units on display as well. All three were 2.0 ghz with 1.5 gb ram. I didn't check on the hard drive speed.

All I know was that it was FAST. I'm not too sure why Apple decided to go with 1.5gb ram on their display models though. Wouldn't they want to do 2 gig (2x1gb) so it could get the full performance?
The performance difference in pairing chips versus not is not very large. It's one of those things that gets overblown in forums like this.
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robby818
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Feb 28, 2006, 12:20 AM
 
I played with one at the Glendale store on Sunday. The AC was not working in the store so it was sweltering inside. I stayed as long as I could stand it...

The screen brightness is amazing. Even in the brightly lit store environment the screens look bright enough. There was a 15" powerbook on display next ot the macbook and the difference was striking. BTW, i could see the horizontal line problem on the powerbook, no such issue on the macbook.

the macbook felt a little bit hotter than the powerbook, especially around the speakers. i checked the temps on the other two macbooks on display and they were all a bit hotter than the powerbooks.

I could not believe just how responsive the macbook is...safari just pops up web pages.

the only sad note was when i looked at the little plastic thing that lists the prices and configurations. the top end machine was listed at $2899. Talk about sticker shock. BTW, the price tags incorrectly listed the slower cpu speeds that were announced at macworld, not the shipping speeds.
     
pete
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Mar 4, 2006, 12:47 PM
 
I went to tekserve yesterday to check it out too and these are my observations coming from a powerbook G4 1.67ghz:

- Sad that they removed modem and sad that they didn't add another USB port in its place
-The screen really does not tilt back enough. This might be a decision based on the design, but it's a mistake to limit the flexibility on such a key part of the laptop given how people use these computer in a wide range of circumstances. That's the point of a laptop. The angle is much less than my powerbook - so much that when standing there I had either bend down or tilt the laptop up to see how wonderfully bright and sharp the latest LCD is!

- The LCD is truly marvelous but compared to the most recent 17" LCDs it's about the same and en par with the cinema displays.

- It seems to run hotter than my powerbook: underneat, around the hinge and unfortunately even around the keyboard and palm rests - though there it is just warm. That's a huge downside to me since I write for extended periods of time and don't like my palms to turn sweaty. So, heat remains an issue but that's nothing new.

- Apple still seems unable to make an LCD bezel that closes evenly. Just like the powerbook before it, the bezel, when examined from the front, is not flush with the lower casing. Part of it may be a design decision, but the UNEVEN gap between the two sides of the laptop is most certainly not meant to be. Why is this so hard? It's painful when such a meticulously designed laptop has such a glaring design flaw.

- The AC plug is amazing. brilliant. Superb. But the adapter is bigger.

- Speedwise this laptop felt very fast with finder operations, application launching etc. Finally! Can't comment on real speed gain but there have been numerous testings already.



I feel pretty underwhelmed, I must admit. And it's not because I bought a new powerbook in the fall. Usually I feel new laptop lust whenever Apple releases a new laptop. This time I feel nothing. Of course I would like a brighter screen and a faster processor, but not at the cost of less LCD angle, no modem, few Universal apps yet, hotter case etc. Not to mention the big difference in price between an older powerbook G4 and this one.

I hope we'll see some real innovation in the next generation of powerbooks. While the casing and speed has changed over the past 8 years since the Wallstreet powerbook G3 was released, there really is not that much innovationg going on in Apple's laptops. Sure, they're great, solid and beautiful computers with nice design touches, but there is obviously much more that could be done with a portable computer to make it more ergonomic, adaptable and useful. The large trackpad/gesturepad patent filed by Apple would be a great move if it makes it to production. The very real issue of wide-spread RSI NEEDS to be tackled by computer makers soon. The computer-using world is facing huge long-term health problems because of computer use and few mainstream companies seem to be working on solutions. Apple could offer a breakthrough in this area.

So: nice new macbook pro, but to me definitely not woth upgrading too.
( Last edited by pete; Mar 4, 2006 at 02:09 PM. )
     
PeterKG
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Mar 4, 2006, 01:11 PM
 
So Pete,

I'm glad by going over the new Macbook, you came to the conclusion that you would not replace your just recently purchased PB. That would make sense anyway. I was able to exchange my PB (same model you have), for the Macbook. I paid the restocking fee and the difference in price. To me that was a smart move, as I would not have done so without such an exchange.

But you review was lacking. After spending a week with the Macbook, it is a much better computer than what it replaces. You failed to mention many features (iSight, Frontrow, larger trackpad,, and in my opinion much better build quality, etc.).

But most of all, speed. The Macook is so responsive compared to what it has replaced. But enjoy your PB until the time you feel the need to upgrade. In the meantime, the Macbook is a great purchase for someone needing a new computer.
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pete
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Mar 4, 2006, 01:55 PM
 
I didn't mean to say that the macbook pro isn't a really good computer, just that for powerbook owners of the last two generations it is not really a worthwhile update unless they really really need that CPU power. As far as I'm concerned, Apple is not taking very big steps in their laptops but rather small incremental improvements. Isight, frontrow and a wider trackpad are nice to have, but to me definitely not something I'd base my purchase on. Speed and display would be far more important to me as would improvements in ergonomics such as at least the equivalent in display opening angle, less heat, less rigid trackpad button (or even two buttons), detachable keyboard, adjustable height display etc - things that would make a real difference in everyday work comfort and usability.

I also didn't get the impression that the build quality was 'much better' but maybe I was missing something? What do you think is better?


What bothers me is that there are several things that really are worse than the previous powerbooks . They've been mentioned before: absence of modem, s-video out, pc card and the inabiltity to tilt the display back more. In my mind, leaving out a modem is crazy. Most of the world (and most of the industrialised world too) still doesn't have broadband and apple thinks a modem isn't necessary on a laptop that's intended for travel???

In any case, if i didn't have a laptop now I probably would buy a macbook pro and live with its weaknesses.

BTW, I bought two of the last generation of powerbooks and returned them both because of various quality problems and the screen lines. I finally got the generation before that which I'm pretty happy with. If I had kept one of those PBs and been offered an upgrade for the restocking fee I would have gone for it too! They were terrible.


that's all. Glad you're enjoying your new 'book!

Pete
     
yticolev
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Mar 4, 2006, 03:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by PeterKG
You failed to mention many features (iSight, Frontrow, larger trackpad,, and in my opinion much better build quality, etc.).
What do you like about a larger trackpad? I was bummed when I upgraded from the Titanium, now I have many accidental trackpad inputs. This despite checking ignore in preferences. And I have tracking speed up most of the way so I only use a very tiny area of the trackpad. Unless Apple is planning drawing capabilities, I see no advantages to a larger trackpad at all. Interesting that some find it a selling feature.

And what about build quality? Seems identical to the other Aluminum models. If you are talking about better LCDs, no argument there but I never thought about that as being build quality. Build quality is things like flush seams.
     
PeterKG
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Mar 4, 2006, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by pete
I didn't mean to say that the macbook pro isn't a really good computer, just that for powerbook owners of the last two generations it is not really a worthwhile update unless they really really need that CPU power. As far as I'm concerned, Apple is not taking very big steps in their laptops but rather small incremental improvements. Isight, frontrow and a wider trackpad are nice to have, but to me definitely not something I'd base my purchase on. Speed and display would be far more important to me as would improvements in ergonomics such as at least the equivalent in display opening angle, less heat, less rigid trackpad button (or even two buttons), detachable keyboard, adjustable height display etc - things that would make a real difference in everyday work comfort and usability.

I also didn't get the impression that the build quality was 'much better' but maybe I was missing something? What do you think is better?


What bothers me is that there are several things that really are worse than the previous powerbooks . They've been mentioned before: absence of modem, s-video out, pc card and the inabiltity to tilt the display back more. In my mind, leaving out a modem is crazy. Most of the world (and most of the industrialised world too) still doesn't have broadband and apple thinks a modem isn't necessary on a laptop that's intended for travel???

In any case, if i didn't have a laptop now I probably would buy a macbook pro and live with its weaknesses.

BTW, I bought two of the last generation of powerbooks and returned them both because of various quality problems and the screen lines. I finally got the generation before that which I'm pretty happy with. If I had kept one of those PBs and been offered an upgrade for the restocking fee I would have gone for it too! They were terrible.


that's all. Glad you're enjoying your new 'book!

Pete
Hey Peter,

I remember well your problems with the last generation B, and that you had returned it and gone to the revison before that. Did you know that Apple is now replacing screens for PB's with the line issue? That is great news for those who had a problem with it. I was really happy you solved your dilema and are happy with your PB.

It sounds to me you would prefer a Windows laptop that would come with all kinds of options which I think run opposite of Apple design, which is simplicity.

Display angle is not a problem for me. I would not have even noticed, if for not reading threads here. At a desk, or on the lap, or where most people use them it's a non issue. Build quality is really good on the MBP. I returned three of the last generation before getting an acceptable unit. My very first generation 15" PB had keyboard, latch, trackpad, fit and finish, issues.

I travel all over Asia and Europe, and never used a modem. I also prefer to attach a PDF rather then fax. I never used s-video, or FW-800, and I think most users are in the same boat.

So rather than follow the crowd wh feel these things are so important, I chose the MBP because it does eveything I need it to do, and in a FASTER and more elegant way.
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pete
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Mar 4, 2006, 04:41 PM
 
Hi Peter,

I know they are replacing the LCDs now....still glad I returned my two. It sours the experience when they're rotten out of the box.

I am extremely satisfied with using a mac and unless I am forced to again (I was last year because of RSI and the need for speech recognition software ), I will stay with MacOS as long as I can. That doesn't mean I don't think powerbooks could be better. I love the simplicy of these machines, but that doesn't mean that they could not be made ergonomically more sound.

As for the angle of the screen. Of course most people will probably be fine, but the question is why should those who want to have a little more angle (like the albook, which is still much less than the titanium, which in turn was less thatn PB G3...) be able to do that? How difficult can it be for Apple to do that?

I travel all over Asia and Europe too for research, visiting friends and pleasure and my experience is that unless you;re staying at a urban hotel , a modem often comes in very handy. Of course, if you are there and stay at hotels in cities that is a different issue. It depends on where you are always - I spend a lot of time in Taiwan and China and in Europe in Sweden, UK, Germany, France. Still, the fact remains that most people in the world do not have internet and of those who do, most do not have broadband/wireless access. So, the question I have is, why? To save a few bucks? To save space?

S-video I can live without and the adapter is so small that it doesn't really matter in terms of accessories so fine.

In any case, I'd be happy with a macbook pro too and would just work around what I perceive as its limitations, as I have always done with all computers I've had. I agree completely with you that one should choose whatever works well for one's specific needs. That should be the basis for purchases.
     
mduell
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Mar 4, 2006, 05:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by yticolev
And what about build quality? Seems identical to the other Aluminum models.
IIRC they switched from Compal (one of the cheapest ODMs) building the PowerBooks to Quanta (one of the best ODMs) building the MacBook Pro (with Asustek rumored to be building the MacBook).
     
   
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