[skyman]

Ever since switching to an Intel Mac I have had to rebuild my Entourage DB every couple of weeks.

Question #1

I have read that the Entourage DB is just one BIG meta file and if it gets damages I am screwed. Is this true?

Question #2

What type of DB system does Apple's Mail application use and is it better than the Entourage DB schema?

Question #3

What Mail application do you recommend?

Thank You!

[EFFENDI]

Question 1: If it is damaged, I would venture to guess you'd be basically screwed
Question 2: What do you call a deer with no eyes?
Question 3: Having used both, and constantly having to troubleshoot everybody else's Entourage problem around my office, I personally prefer Apple Mail.

[rickey939]

There is a built-in "Database Utility" that Entourage has to help fix corrupted databases if they should happen.

[imitchellg5]

3) Entourage. Mail is slower as an app, it has an atrocious interface IMO, and it is way easier to change preferences in Entourage than Mail. Entourage is also much more versatile than Mail, although that may change with Leopard.

[Thinine]

Mail FTW. Unless you need a specific feature, it's the best.

[DuckRacer1]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

3) Entourage. Mail is slower as an app, it has an atrocious interface IMO, and it is way easier to change preferences in Entourage than Mail. Entourage is also much more versatile than Mail, although that may change with Leopard.

I don't know if you're using a PPC Mac, but on an Intel Mac, Mail is considerably faster to launch, it takes up a fifth of the RAM that Entourage takes up, and it's more responsive in general. Now, Entourage might be faster than Mail on a PPC setup, but since skyman is on an Intel Mac, Mail takes the cake easily.

[besson3c]

If you want the most feature-filled and best behaving client, this would actually be Thunderbird.

Entourage does quirky and non-standard things, and OS X Mail is pretty light on features.


The OS X Mail mailbox format is its own variation on Maildir/Cyrus mailboxes, where each message is a file that can be indexed by Spotlight.

[Thinine]

Eww, gross. No one should use Thunderbird over Mail. Again, unless there's a specific feature you need.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Thinine

Eww, gross. No one should use Thunderbird over Mail. Again, unless there's a specific feature you need.

There are several that Thunderbird has that I need actually...

I'd also say that its interface is at least as good as Entourage.

[infowarrior]

I use Entourage myself for the past several years for two reasons -- firstly, I like having mail, contact, and schedules all done in one application Window. I tried doing it the Mail/iCal/Addressbook way and slick as they were, I really just couldnt' get used to having 3 apps doing the work of 1. I also don't quite like how Apple Mail does the 'side drawer' and multiple mailboxes thing.

While Entourage has some quirks now and then it's been pretty solid for me and my 800MB mail database. Entourage's database is one file that can get horked if you're not careful -- but that's offset by its DB Repair Utility and the simple ease that you can drag the "Entourage Identities" folder to another drive to back it up, which I do regularly.

I just wish the MacBU would get Entourage 2007 out --- the 2004 version is starting to creak in terms of the GUI experience compared to 10.4 and Tiger apps.

[driven]

I'm kind of torn. There is a lot I like about Mail.app and a lot that I like about Entourage.

Recently I started using a hosted Exchange server to sync to my WM5 based phone. I was happy to find that both Entourage and Mail.app sync as well. The advantage is on Entourage that also syncs the address book/calendar and not just the mail. (Although both screw the pooch on the task list)

I like the integration of .mac mail better on mail.app. For example: If I create aliases using the webmail interface of my .mac mail account then those aliases also show up in mail.app but not Entourage. Entourage seems to treat my mac mail account just like another IMAP account. Minor nit really.

I like the smart-folders better in Mail.app and it seems to get refreshed more regularly than Entourage does. Then again, Entourage is from Microsoft so I always question it's quality.

... still torn. I'd love to hear others opinions on this topic.

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by EFFENDI 

Question 2: What do you call a deer with no eyes?

Huh?

[mark.s]

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 

Huh?

No idea.

[driven]

Originally Posted by mark.s 

No idea.

(Get it? No eye deer !?!?!)

<drum roll>

[mbw]

I've tried both, though my latest struggle with Entourage was quite some time ago. I liked using Entourage initially, however, every time I stopped Entourage and restarted it, I'd have to rebuild the database. I *think* this is because I was also checking my mail with another client on another machine, though would not bet my paycheck on it. Since it's important for me to check mail from more than one location without worrying about installing Entourage everywhere I go, I use Apple Mail and am fairly happy with it.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mbw 

I've tried both, though my latest struggle with Entourage was quite some time ago. I liked using Entourage initially, however, every time I stopped Entourage and restarted it, I'd have to rebuild the database. I *think* this is because I was also checking my mail with another client on another machine, though would not bet my paycheck on it. Since it's important for me to check mail from more than one location without worrying about installing Entourage everywhere I go, I use Apple Mail and am fairly happy with it.

If Entourage will not handle file locks and multiple people accessing the same mailbox, this is pathetic. This is sort of the point of IMAP in the first place, and you'd think an email client with groupware functionality would handle this gracefully.

The whole mail store is a single giant database thing is pretty lame too. In Entourage v.X, TLS authentication wasn't even supported, instead using SSL, which even at the time was quite old school.

In short, Entourage is a POS, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Honestly, if you want an email client with a rich rule set, the ability to choose what folders you want to subscribe to (useful when there are shared mailboxes you wish to access), and all of these sorts of advanced features, you are best off with Thunderbird.

Thunderbird may not be the most Mac-like email client available, but it is the most capable, best behaved, and capable.

OS X Mail is okay, but aside from lacking some of these features it also does annoying things like only allow you to cache every mailbox within your entire account, rather than just particular mailboxes. Frankly, I hope that that mail searching at the client side is only temporary, because it seems like a very inefficient model to:

1) download all messages
2) index them/search them
3) perpetually download and index new messages

I've seen server-side mail indexing in action, and it works quite well. If only we can get more servers and clients doing this. Of course, this will cost more on the backend...

[driven]

Originally Posted by mbw 

I've tried both, though my latest struggle with Entourage was quite some time ago. I liked using Entourage initially, however, every time I stopped Entourage and restarted it, I'd have to rebuild the database. I *think* this is because I was also checking my mail with another client on another machine, though would not bet my paycheck on it. Since it's important for me to check mail from more than one location without worrying about installing Entourage everywhere I go, I use Apple Mail and am fairly happy with it.

I've been doing this now for about a week (Entourage 2004 and also had Outlook running on a different machine against the same back-end.) No issues to speak of. (So far anyway.)

[OwlBoy]

Mail just ate 2 years of email when I tried to undo a move of messages.

Now I am not too happy with mail…

-Owl

[olePigeon]

I lived by Eudora in Classic. That was my favorite email program.

[kcmac]

Originally Posted by infowarrior 

I also don't quite like how Apple Mail does the 'side drawer...

?????

Mail all the way. The Mac BU, as hard as they try, just can not keep up with the world these days with these 2-3 year schedules for updates.

I really like Tiger Mail and look forward to Leopard.

[Abbas]

I use an Exchange server that syncs contacts and calender along with email and keeps my mobile phone, notebook, home and office PC in sync. It also allows me to use a web browser to check my mail, contacts or appointments. For me, Entourage is the best option even though I dont like it much as I'm using Intel Macs at the home, office and on the go.

I wish there was a competing technology. While my macs can sync with an Apple account, my mobile phone wont- at least over the air which is a much needed feature for me.

-a

[TimmyDee51]

FWIW, Entourage used to have a 4 GB limit on the database (and 2 GB before that). I've had a few users who's Entourage DBs have gone south upon reaching this limit. MS has done away with the file size limit and instead imposes an item limit of 1 million. I would assume this is contacts + calendar events + mail messages + notes + whatever else Entourage keeps track of.

[driven]

Originally Posted by Abbas 

I use an Exchange server that syncs contacts and calender along with email and keeps my mobile phone, notebook, home and office PC in sync. It also allows me to use a web browser to check my mail, contacts or appointments. For me, Entourage is the best option even though I dont like it much as I'm using Intel Macs at the home, office and on the go.

I wish there was a competing technology. While my macs can sync with an Apple account, my mobile phone wont- at least over the air which is a much needed feature for me.

-a

I use it for this same purpose. I only wish that it would also sync tasks. :-(