[vmarks]

Originally posted by Logic:
Nice duck and also you are wrong.

Nuclear weapons have been used twice.

Will you answer my question please?

Again- asked and answered.

This tactic of yours gets old.


And why do you not believe the reports from Sweden?


PS - Hiroshima and Nagasaki are counted as one event, the bombs left at the same time on the same plane on the same mission.

[Troll]

A reminder for the Bush supporters out there. Here are your mantras:

"America is safer thanks to George W. Bush"

"Bush foreign policy is not making more terrorist enemies for the US."

"Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East."

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Troll:
A reminder for the Bush supporters out there. Here are your mantras:

"America is safer thanks to George W. Bush"

"Bush foreign policy is not making more terrorist enemies for the US."

"Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East."

Don't forget Afghanistan.

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Again- asked and answered.

This tactic of yours gets old.


And why do you not believe the reports from Sweden?


PS - Hiroshima and Nagasaki are counted as one event, the bombs left at the same time on the same plane on the same mission.

Either I missed you answer or you didn't answer. Could you point me to the post where you answered my question?

Why I don't believe the reports from Sweden? Because I lived in a Muslim "ghetto" in Sweden. And I can tell you that I would much rather live in a Muslim ghetto than in any other low income ghetto.

And you are wrong about Nagasaki and Hiroshima. There were three days between the bombings so unless the planes were able to refuel in air in WWII and the plane circled the air for 72 hours or so you are wrong. Little Boy(60kg U-235) was dropped by Enola Gay the 6th of August. Fat Man(8kg Pu-239) was dropped by Bock's Car the 9th of August.

You really need to get your facts straight.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Logic:
Either I missed you answer or you didn't answer. Could you point me to the post where you answered my question?

Why I don't believe the reports from Sweden? Because I lived in a Muslim "ghetto" in Sweden. And I can tell you that I would much rather live in a Muslim ghetto than in any other low income ghetto.

And you are wrong about Nagasaki and Hiroshima. There were three days between the bombings so unless the planes were able to refuel in air in WWII and the plane circled the air for 72 hours or so you are wrong. Little Boy(60kg U-235) was dropped by Enola Gay the 6th of August. Fat Man(8kg Pu-239) was dropped by Bock's Car the 9th of August.

You really need to get your facts straight.

So, are the reports from Sweden false?

Would you like to read the news articles in Swedish?

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are taught together. I erred. Get over it.

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
So, are the reports from Sweden false?

Would you like to read the news articles in Swedish?

Hiroshima and Nagasaki are taught together. I erred. Get over it.

Well rapes have gone up but it has nothing to do with Muslims. And sure. Give me the links. I read news from Sweden on a daily basis and have yet to encounter anything like what you mentioned.

Get over it? I just pointed out that you were wrong.

And you didn't point me to the post where you answered my original question. Care to do that?

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Logic:
"holds the leash"? Perhaps the US should try to keep a shorter leash on Israel. If the US would do that it would be safer, be able to continue to support Israel, and could save countless lives.

It could do these things, yes. But even a dog will only tolerate so short of a leash before it turns on its master.

At the moment the US is only concerned about Israeli(Jewish and Christian lives).

This is a grave and groundless accusation, one which doesn't become you. It's rather a shame, actually. You and I have had our agreements and disagreements in the past, but it used to be that you did your chosen alias justice, always relying on logic and reason for your arguments even when we disagreed. Now I see you turning to -and I hate to use Zimphire's phrase, but I know no better term- kneejerk emotional reactions. Simply because we disagree does not mean we do not care.

Or, perhaps to put it into the words of more zealous people than you or I, when the Palestinians start caring enough about Israeli lives to police their own people, they will find others more amenable to dealing with them peacefully. Most Palestinians are peaceful, but not so peaceful as to stop their brothers from giving the monsters in the Israeli government plenty of metaphorical ammunition.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Millennium:
It could do these things, yes. But even a dog will only tolerate so short of a leash before it turns on its master.

This is a grave and groundless accusation, one which doesn't become you. It's rather a shame, actually. You and I have had our agreements and disagreements in the past, but it used to be that you did your chosen alias justice, always relying on logic and reason for your arguments even when we disagreed. Now I see you turning to -and I hate to use Zimphire's phrase, but I know no better term- kneejerk emotional reactions. Simply because we disagree does not mean we do not care.

Or, perhaps to put it into the words of more zealous people than you or I, when the Palestinians start caring enough about Israeli lives to police their own people, they will find others more amenable to dealing with them peacefully. Most Palestinians are peaceful, but not so peaceful as to stop their brothers from giving the monsters in the Israeli government plenty of metaphorical ammunition.

True. And yes, that was a wrong accusation. I'm sure the US admin views all life equally, but I think the problem is how they achieve that. As long as they'll continue to support Israel in the way they do now it will look the way I described it. That is not the truth however and I apologise for saying that.

But as long as it looks that way the radicals in the ME will have plenty of metaphorical ammunition themselves. That is IMO one of the main problems. Both sides are playing into their opponents hands. And it's the innocent civilians on both sides that suffer.

That's why I have said for a long time that it is time for a UN military intervention in the Israeli/Palestinian issue. We need to separate the two and create an atmosphere that will allow the "moderates" on both sides to gain power. The current corrupt leaders will definitely not allow that to happen and as long as they are in charge the war will continue.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by vmarks:
PS - Hiroshima and Nagasaki are counted as one event, the bombs left at the same time on the same plane on the same mission.

History
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/hitimeline/1945.html
August 6
The world's second atomic bomb, Little Boy [on the Enola Gay], a gun-type uranium bomb, is detonated 1,900 feet above Hiroshima, Japan. It has a yield of approximately 15 kilotons TNT. Some 90,000 to 100,000 persons are killed immediately; about 145,000 persons will perish from the bombing by the end of 1945.

More History
http://www.nuclearfiles.org/hitimeline/1945.html
August 9
At 9:44 a.m. Bockscar, a B-29 carrying Fat Man, the world's third atomic bomb, arrives at its primary target, Kokura. The city is covered in haze and smoke from an American bombing raid on a nearby city. Bockscar turns to its secondary target Nagasaki. At 11:02 a.m. the world's third atomic bomb explosion devastates Nagasaki, the intense heat and blast indiscriminately slaughters its inhabitants.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:

Read up. I said I erred. Big deal, move on.

Doesn't change the facts that a terrorist group has now declared the US (who unfortunately funds that terrorist group via the UN and UNRWA who hires terrorist members) an enemy.

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Read up. I said I erred. Big deal, move on.

Doesn't change the facts that a terrorist group has now declared the US (who unfortunately funds that terrorist group via the UN and UNRWA who hires terrorist members) an enemy.

No one hires terrorists to work for UNRWA. That is yet one more "error" coming from you.

Every member of Hamas in Gaza isn't a terrorist. Many of the Hamas members work in charity and that is the only thing they do. Stop spinning or you'll get even dizzier.

[Spliffdaddy]

Thanks for the PM, vmarks. Sometimes I get impatient and look for a quick solution. I'd make a pretty bad president. Mostly because I'd always be nuking stuff. So let 'em fight - and may the best side win.

[Troll]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Doesn't change the facts that a terrorist group has now declared the US (who unfortunately funds that terrorist group via the UN and UNRWA who hires terrorist members) an enemy.

Which illustrates how moronic Bush's foreign policy has been. Instead of diminishing the terrorist threat the US faces, his failing to stick to the Roadmap for Peace, his unwaivering support for Sharon and his failure to show any real interest in the Palestinian problem at all, means that the US now has a new terrorist enemy. Evidence that Bush doesn't know how to fight the War on Terrorism properly.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Big deal, move on.

It is a big deal. You attempted to revise one of the most significant and controversial events of the last century. Had you not been called on it, you may have continued believing that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were one attack with both bombs carried on the Enola Gay until eventually you conveniently erased Nagasaki from your memory entirely.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Logic:
No one hires terrorists to work for UNRWA. That is yet one more "error" coming from you.

Every member of Hamas in Gaza isn't a terrorist. Many of the Hamas members work in charity and that is the only thing they do. Stop spinning or you'll get even dizzier.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Period. It isn't spinning.

Peter Hansen, director of UNRWA has said that he fully expects that he has hired Hamas members.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1096870636345

Hansen also said Monday night that reports of his admission that his group employs Hamas members had misconstrued his statements.

On Sunday, Hansen told Canada's CBC television, "I am sure that there are Hamas members on the UNRWA payroll and I don't see that as a crime."

The terrorists themselves admit to using UNRWA vehicles to transport ammunition to cells.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Troll:
Which illustrates how moronic Bush's foreign policy has been. Instead of diminishing the terrorist threat the US faces, his failing to stick to the Roadmap for Peace, his unwaivering support for Sharon and his failure to show any real interest in the Palestinian problem at all, means that the US now has a new terrorist enemy. Evidence that Bush doesn't know how to fight the War on Terrorism properly.

Negotiations in a war when the war has not ended are premature. Oslo, Camp David, Roadmap, all were premature because the Palestinian party was not ready to accept the conditions of any of those agreements.

Negotiations are the formality that decrees how things will proceed once the war has ended, but they are premature when the Palestinian party wishes for nothing more than to keep fighting.

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
The terrorists themselves admit to using UNRWA vehicles to transport ammunition to cells.

They aren't alone in that. The IOF has been found to do that regularly as well.

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Negotiations in a war when the war has not ended are premature. Oslo, Camp David, Roadmap, all were premature because the Palestinian party was not ready to accept the conditions of any of those agreements.

Negotiations are the formality that decrees how things will proceed once the war has ended, but they are premature when the Palestinian party wishes for nothing more than to keep fighting.

You really need to check your facts. Barak's "generous" offer is the prime example of how willing Israel is to get real peace. Never have they offered anything even close to acceptable so it isn't surprising that the Palestinians won't accept any of the conditions set forth in the "peace" offerings from Israel.

[Troll]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Negotiations in a war when the war has not ended are premature. Oslo, Camp David, Roadmap, all were premature because the Palestinian party was not ready to accept the conditions of any of those agreements.

Negotiations are the formality that decrees how things will proceed once the war has ended, but they are premature when the Palestinian party wishes for nothing more than to keep fighting.

Notice the way you conflagrate Israel's war and America's war.

America was never at war with the Palestinians so I hardly see how your point about negotiation is relevant.

[vmarks]

You know, you never did answer why the reports from Sweden are false to you.

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
You know, you never did answer why the reports from Sweden are false to you.

I already did.

I said that I lived in a Muslim ghetto and read and watch Swedish news everyday. I said that I would much rather live in a Muslim ghetto rather than any other low income ghetto.

But because you want me to elaborate on it I will.

The suburb I lived in consisted of about 50% foreigners and the ghetto that was a part of that suburb consisted of about 70-80% foreigners. Of those about 70% were Arabs/Muslims. I recall just a couple of rapes the 10 years I lived there. And from what I've read it hasn't increased. And before you say something I should highlight that not one single rape was committed by a Muslim. Not a single one. The reports from Sweden state that women have become more likely to report rapes and that some kind of rapes have therefor been added to the list. The reports haven't in any way pointed out that one group of believers or "race" is more likely to commit rape.

Now, are you going to answer my original question? I've entertained your little game now.

And are you going to show me the report you mentioned?

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Logic:
I already did.

I said that I lived in a Muslim ghetto and read and watch Swedish news everyday. I said that I would much rather live in a Muslim ghetto rather than any other low income ghetto.

Now, are you going to answer my original question? I've entertained your little game now.

And are you going to show me the report you mentioned?

So we're supposed to take your word for it on the basis that you lived there, but you won't take my word on anything regarding Israel- cute double-standard you've got there.

http://www.expressen.se/expressen/js...y.jsp?a=181406
http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/stockholm/n...artikel=473749
http://www.spectator.se/stambord/ind...?p=97#comments
http://www.sindbad.se/phpBB2/

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10070548
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10046819
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10046811
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10047861
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=147&a=247830
http://www.berlingske.dk/indland/artikel:aid=478960/
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10079070
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10079070
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10090550
http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10091227
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...515222,00.html

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
So we're supposed to take your word for it on the basis that you lived there, but you won't take my word on anything regarding Israel- cute double-standard you've got there.

http://www.expressen.se/expressen/js...y.jsp?a=181406

Not a single rape case and the only one that mentions "race" is where a couple of guards shout "****ing nigger" at a man that threatened to call the police after he wasn't allowed to enter a pub.

http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/stockholm/n...artikel=473749

Nothing related to rape or race. Just vandalism towards buses.

http://www.spectator.se/stambord/ind...?p=97#comments

e influx of hordes of benefit-hungry migrants from the new EU states



Nothing about race only mentions people from the new EU states. Doesn't mention crimes either.

http://www.sindbad.se/phpBB2/

A Swedish Muslim forum discussing everything in life. The link above didn't work but I did browse through it and there I found what got you to believe this BS. An article on JihadWatch. They basically laughed at it and said that the author needs help.

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10070548

Doesn't mention one thing about race but talks about the vandalism and attacks on persons there. The police said it's mostly young guys who want revenge when someone gets arrested and didn't seem too worried.

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10046819

A basic article about what is happening there. Points out that more than half the population in Roseng�rd is younger than 18 and that it is overpopulated. The population has grown from 3000 to 5000 even if no new apartments have been built. Nothing about rapes etc.

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10046811

Doesn't mention crimes at all but does mention that the media is making it much worse than it is. He points out that even if only one student out of 30 wears the Hijab the photographer and editor will focus on her and therefor give the whole community that "label".

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se/Article.jsp?article=10047861

Talks little to nothing about crimes and just points out that it is a clash between neo-nazis and the foreigners and that has resulted in a radicalisation of the two parties. And that the government hasn't done enough for the people in that ghetto.


don't know why I bother but I'll keep on reading the links that have nothing to do with your argument.

http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=147&a=247830

Talks about how poor that part of Malm� is and how many of the people living in that suburb are foreigners. The police says that the crime statistics aren't much worse than in other parts of Malm�. Doesn't mention anything about rapes though.

http://www.berlingske.dk/indland/artikel:aid=478960/

page not found

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10079070

Talks about a couple of workers working on building a new parking space near the school and how they had to abort the project for the time being because some kids threw eggs at them

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10079070

same article as above

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10090550

Talks about a murder and clashes between Kosovo Albans and Arabs that followed. Nothing here to support your original claim. Also talks about how long it took for the police and ambulance to react.

http://w1.sydsvenskan.se//Article.jsp?article=10091227

Talks about the relatives of the person murdered(article above) and their reaction.

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyhete...515222,00.html

Talks about how crime has gotten more and more common in Malm�. Was expected due to the former low rates and less control over immigration due to membership in the EU.

There is nothing here that supports your original claim and your attacks on Muslims in Sweden. Nothing.

So yet another worthless claim from you has been debunked. Will you ever stop your attempts at vilifying Muslims?

Original claim:
the situation in Malmø Sweden, where the police are afraid to police the city, and Swedes are emigrating from the city fearing for their safety, as stabbings, armed robbery, vandalism and pretty much any kind of crime and violence you can think of occur at the hands of Muslim immigrants- as terrorism?

As for the rape and gang rape situation, Swedish media have admitted that there has been a sharp increase in brutal rapes, including gang rapes, during recent years. They don’t state why, though. It may still not be as bad in Sweden as it is in Muslim ghettos in France, but the trend is the same:

[lil'babykitten]

roflmao.

[itai195]

I have to give Logic props for actually reading through and responding to all those articles. Personally, I don't know $hit about Sweden (but I love Ikea!).

[Randman]

Kitten, do you ever post an original idea on your own, or to you just parrot what logic says in the hopes that people think you said it?

And I'm glad I know true Muslims and have Muslim friends and co-workers and have been to Muslim countries because you are logic really do give your religion a bad name. logic really sounds like an insecure prick with a chip on his shoulder and too much time on his hands in whatever european country you're in.

Glad to see you two take ramadan seriously. Do you even break fast or do any introspection, or is your Muslim act just a facade to cover up for whatever insecurities make you post like an ass?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Randman:
Kitten, do you ever post an original idea on your own, or to you just parrot what logic says in the hopes that people think you said it?

And I'm glad I know true Muslims and have Muslim friends and co-workers and have been to Muslim countries because you are logic really do give your religion a bad name. logic really sounds like an insecure prick with a chip on his shoulder and too much time on his hands in whatever european country you're in.

Glad to see you two take ramadan seriously. Do you even break fast or do any introspection, or is your Muslim act just a facade to cover up for whatever insecurities make you post like an ass?

The days when I actually took the posts on this board seriously have looong since past. Who are you anyway? As if you have even been here long enough to know what my political beliefs and ideas are.

Recently I've been more amused than intrigued by the posts here so my posts reflect that. I really don't care what your opinion of me is and it's quite funny that you've actually taken the time to post some kind of personal evaluation of me. Perhaps your warped assessment of me helps you deceive yourself due to your own insecurities? That's a shame. Maybe you should take your own advice and be a little reflective yourself. I'm quite secure in my beliefs but thank you for your concern. It's truly heartwarming.

[The Oracle]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Who are you anyway? As if you have even been here long enough to know what my political beliefs and ideas are.

Don't be so elitist. It doesn't take a veteran of this twisted segment of the lounge to know where you stand or what your beliefs are. And it doesn't take a genius to click on your profile and read some past posts.

Do some original thinking and these insights would be apparent to you.

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by vmarks:
the situation in Malmø Sweden, where the police are afraid to police the city, and Swedes are emigrating from the city fearing for their safety, as stabbings, armed robbery, vandalism and pretty much any kind of crime and violence you can think of occur at the hands of Muslim immigrants- as terrorism

You're confusing muslim terrorists with drunken natives. The links supposedly describing the chaos and dissarray read more like an episode of 'Cops'.

Muslim immigrants here in neighbouring Finland aren't causing trouble, most are enterprising and business-minded people who add great potential to our otherwise diminishing population.

Then again, we don't have any real ghettos either. Even so, there are stereotypical immigrant troublemakers, but they certainly don't come from the middle-east.

J

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by The Oracle:
Don't be so elitist. It doesn't take a veteran of this twisted segment of the lounge to know where you stand or what your beliefs are. And it doesn't take a genius to click on your profile and read some past posts.

Exactly, so why ask such a stupid question? If he was really interested in my opinions he would do a search.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Judge_Fire:
You're confusing muslim terrorists with drunken natives. The links supposedly describing the chaos and dissarray read more like an episode of 'Cops'.

Muslim immigrants here in neighbouring Finland aren't causing trouble, most are enterprising and business-minded people who add great potential to our otherwise diminishing population.

Then again, we don't have any real ghettos either. Even so, there are stereotypical immigrant troublemakers, but they certainly don't come from the middle-east.

J

kiitos!

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Randman:
Kitten, do you ever post an original idea on your own, or to you just parrot what logic says in the hopes that people think you said it?

And I'm glad I know true Muslims and have Muslim friends and co-workers and have been to Muslim countries because you are logic really do give your religion a bad name. logic really sounds like an insecure prick with a chip on his shoulder and too much time on his hands in whatever european country you're in.

Glad to see you two take ramadan seriously. Do you even break fast or do any introspection, or is your Muslim act just a facade to cover up for whatever insecurities make you post like an ass?

OMG. Theolein has some serious competition in the ass-chewing category. I thought he was the best...but now I ain't so sure.

condescending tone, excellent use of leading questions, and perfect placement of the 'ass' word. It doesn't get more highly refined and professional than that, folks.

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by Logic:
Not a single rape case and the only one that mentions "race" is where a couple of guards shout "****ing nigger" at a man that threatened to call the police after he wasn't allowed to enter a pub.

Nothing related to rape or race. Just vandalism towards buses.

e influx of hordes of benefit-hungry migrants from the new EU states



Nothing about race only mentions people from the new EU states. Doesn't mention crimes either.

A Swedish Muslim forum discussing everything in life. The link above didn't work but I did browse through it and there I found what got you to believe this BS. An article on JihadWatch. They basically laughed at it and said that the author needs help.

Doesn't mention one thing about race but talks about the vandalism and attacks on persons there. The police said it's mostly young guys who want revenge when someone gets arrested and didn't seem too worried.

A basic article about what is happening there. Points out that more than half the population in Roseng�rd is younger than 18 and that it is overpopulated. The population has grown from 3000 to 5000 even if no new apartments have been built. Nothing about rapes etc.

Doesn't mention crimes at all but does mention that the media is making it much worse than it is. He points out that even if only one student out of 30 wears the Hijab the photographer and editor will focus on her and therefor give the whole community that "label".

Talks little to nothing about crimes and just points out that it is a clash between neo-nazis and the foreigners and that has resulted in a radicalisation of the two parties. And that the government hasn't done enough for the people in that ghetto.


don't know why I bother but I'll keep on reading the links that have nothing to do with your argument.

Talks about how poor that part of Malm� is and how many of the people living in that suburb are foreigners. The police says that the crime statistics aren't much worse than in other parts of Malm�. Doesn't mention anything about rapes though.

page not found

Talks about a couple of workers working on building a new parking space near the school and how they had to abort the project for the time being because some kids threw eggs at them

same article as above

Talks about a murder and clashes between Kosovo Albans and Arabs that followed. Nothing here to support your original claim. Also talks about how long it took for the police and ambulance to react.

Talks about the relatives of the person murdered(article above) and their reaction.

Talks about how crime has gotten more and more common in Malm�. Was expected due to the former low rates and less control over immigration due to membership in the EU.

There is nothing here that supports your original claim and your attacks on Muslims in Sweden. Nothing.

So yet another worthless claim from you has been debunked. Will you ever stop your attempts at vilifying Muslims?

*smackdown*


Taliesin

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by constrictor:
In a perfect world, we would just nuke the entire Middle East, Israel included, and then the problem would be solved.

In the real world, perhaps we can do it anyway? I know what our response will be if we ever get "dirty bombed" here on US soil. Then the message to all the Middle Eastern fathers whose babies are born with heart defects from our retaliatory nuclear radiation will be simple: you should have done something to stop your neighbors.

In a perfect world Israel wouldn't have been recreated in the first place, Hitler-Germany wouldn't have commited a genocide on the jews and other people, the ottomans wouldn't have been able to conquer the islamic world, etc... but only God knows what these developments were good for.

To nuke the middle-east is a near impossibility for the US as there is more than 60% of the world's magnificient oil. Nuking the middle-east would stop the drilling of oil from there for decades, not to think about the catastrophic consequence of losing more than 60% of world's oil-deliverement at once, which would single-handedly destroy the world-economy including the highly dependent US-economy.

Just to play along your little thought-game: Imagine a new islamistic terror-group would be founded with only 20 members. Imagine they would rob banks in the middle-east to get to the necessary money. They could justify stealing by saying that the ends justify the means. The end being jihad, the defeat of an enemy of Islam, etc.. Imagine they were able to rob together 100 million dollars. They would then buy their route free to a ex-Soviet-Union-state where nukes are abundant and buy one from a general with 50 million dollars.

Let's imagine this group would then travel on a cargo-ship to southamerica and pay one of the drug-smugglers there to smuggle them into the US. Ah, forget that last part, not even necessary, they just fire that nuke-rocket from southamerica into an US-town like Washington-DC or Langley, Virginia, and then commit suicide shortly after they have send the rest of the money to their families.

What would the US do? There is noone left they could hunt, noone they could make responsible, the group was founded for that one attack and killed itself, the money was robbed together, the nuke-rocket sold by a corrupt russian general...

If you think a russian or ukrainian generaly wouldn't sell a nuke rocket, what about buying the nuke from the ex-Soviet-Union and the rocket from North-Corea and then combine them.

Taliesin

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by constrictor:
In a perfect world, we would just nuke the entire Middle East, Israel included, and then the problem would be solved.

Nuke the damn planet. This convenient Total Pre-Emptive approach, combined with the on-going presidential election reminds me of Elektra:Assassin by Miller/Sienkiewicz

Hmm

J

[Dave Brasgalla]

Originally posted by Logic:
Talks about how poor that part of Malm� is and how many of the people living in that suburb are foreigners. The police says that the crime statistics aren't much worse than in other parts of Malm�. Doesn't mention anything about rapes though.

Heh. That DN article gives an example about how the people don't want to use the pedestrian tunnel going under the street late at night when there are a dozen or so teenagers hanging out down there. What a surprise! Purse-snatchings are a problem. Some broken windows and assorted acts of vandalism. Basically, teenaged kids in an overpopulated, low-income neighborhood getting up to petty crime at night or while skipping school. Want to name me a major city anywhere that doesn't have that problem?

A little tip for you, vmarks: Expressen is sensationalist and about on the level of the New York Post - not exactly what intellectuals here consider a paragon of journalism.

Swedish police afraid to police Malm�? Swedes moving from the cities in droves, desperate to escape crime? Muslim hate crime/terror waves? I live in Stockholm and read the paper (DN) every day, and I have no idea where you are getting this. Swedes typically want to move *into* the cities - that's the big reason why there are housing shortages in the cities!

Like any poorer area, Roseng�rd has problems, but there are plenty of decent, honest, hardworking people living there - immigrants included. They just don't make the tabloids.

You know, your chances of being the victim of a violent crime here in Sweden are actually fairly slim. Stockholm is the safest city I have ever lived in. Violent crimes like rape and murder are shocking to us, since they are uncommon rather than common. These incidents make the news here because they *are* news here, rather than some kind of norm.

Yes, we have crime here just as all countries and cities do, but to blame it on Muslims would be not only ludicrous, but also considered rascist. You might get a slap on the back and a boozy toast from some grizzled and embittered old nationalist drinking himself to death at some local bar, but it won't make you any friends anywhere else here. Just ask Moderaterna, the party that basically blew the last election when a few of their more inept people made some rascist comments about immigrants on a hidden camera.

As I say, I really have no idea where you are getting these lurid ideas from, vmarks (well, if you read Expressen often maybe it's not so much of a mystery). This has about as much to do with Hamas as Stockholm's locally-controversial inner city automobile toll/tax.

[Logic]

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Taliesin:
In a perfect world Israel wouldn't have been recreated in the first place, Hitler-Germany wouldn't have commited a genocide on the jews and other people, the ottomans wouldn't have been able to conquer the islamic world, etc... but only God knows what these developments were good for.

To nuke the middle-east is a near impossibility for the US as there is more than 60% of the world's magnificient oil. Nuking the middle-east would stop the drilling of oil from there for decades, not to think about the catastrophic consequence of losing more than 60% of world's oil-deliverement at once, which would single-handedly destroy the world-economy including the highly dependent US-economy.

Just to play along your little thought-game: Imagine a new islamistic terror-group would be founded with only 20 members. Imagine they would rob banks in the middle-east to get to the necessary money. They could justify stealing by saying that the ends justify the means. The end being jihad, the defeat of an enemy of Islam, etc.. Imagine they were able to rob together 100 million dollars. They would then buy their route free to a ex-Soviet-Union-state where nukes are abundant and buy one from a general with 50 million dollars.

Let's imagine this group would then travel on a cargo-ship to southamerica and pay one of the drug-smugglers there to smuggle them into the US. Ah, forget that last part, not even necessary, they just fire that nuke-rocket from southamerica into an US-town like Washington-DC or Langley, Virginia, and then commit suicide shortly after they have send the rest of the money to their families.

What would the US do? There is noone left they could hunt, noone they could make responsible, the group was founded for that one attack and killed itself, the money was robbed together, the nuke-rocket sold by a corrupt russian general...

If you think a russian or ukrainian generaly wouldn't sell a nuke rocket, what about buying the nuke from the ex-Soviet-Union and the rocket from North-Corea and then combine them.

Taliesin

We have a missile defense system.

Try again.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
We have a missile defense system.

Try again.

What's the success rate again? 20%? 50%? 100%?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Logic:
What's the success rate again? 20%? 50%? 100%?

So far, zero missiles have hit the USA.

I'd say the success rate is 100%.

Stop watching those failed tests from 14 years ago. There's been a lot of advancement since then. And DOZENS of Space Shuttle flights of a dubious nature.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
So far, zero missiles have hit the USA.

I'd say the success rate is 100%.

Stop watching those failed tests from 14 years ago. There's been a lot of advancement since then. And DOZENS of Space Shuttle flights of a dubious nature.

[Splinter]

Originally posted by Logic:
What's the success rate again? 20%? 50%? 100%?

arrow... it had a success rate of 95%. Im sure the US has some or some like them. to be safe they launch 10 at the incoming balistic missle even 2...

boom, GG

[itai195]

Originally posted by Logic:
What's the success rate again? 20%? 50%? 100%?

I believe they passed 5 of 8 scripted tests, with no decoys. Note this is only one part of a multi-pronged strategy, though. Certainly not a strong enough track record for our president to go around daring other countries to try and hit us.

[constrictor]

Originally posted by itai195:
I believe they passed 5 of 8 scripted tests, with no decoys. Note this is only one part of a multi-pronged strategy, though. Certainly not a strong enough track record for our president to go around daring other countries to try and hit us.

[retard]Bring it on!!!![/retard]

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by itai195:
I believe they passed 5 of 8 scripted tests, with no decoys. Note this is only one part of a multi-pronged strategy, though. Certainly not a strong enough track record for our president to go around daring other countries to try and hit us.

As far as I know, the US-missiledefense works only when the rocket is travelling longer than a specified time in the air and under a maximum speed. It wouldn't work at all when the rocket is fired from a nearby country, as far as I know.

Besides the terrorists wouldn't have to fire the rocket, it would suffice to smuggle it into the US with the help of drugsmugglers and detonate it manually.

9/11 was in my eyes something similar to the parliament-burning in Hitler-Germany that was used by Hitler to declare a war on terror and its supporters. In Hitler's eyes the terrorists were the jews and the jews according to Hitler build up an international terror-network and controlled the world-media and many states and that their goal was the desctruction of Germany.

He saw enemies everywhere, outside Germany, and espescially inside, and so he worked out his racistic ideology in order to dehumanize all the people that he wanted to free Germany from, jews, gypsies, handicapped people, etc, so that the german people would easily follow him, once they have accepted the idelogy he had worked out, without having feelings of remorse. Off course in that idelogy the arian race he claimed most germans belonged to was the best, Nietzsche greets.

So, consequentially it was the german race, the chosen race, to rule over all other races, to expand and be the superpower on earth.

Bush and the neocons obviously learned alot from Hitler, not only his rocket- and nuclear-technology that was the basis for the american nukes, rockets, jets, and space-programm, see Braun, Einstein and Oppenheimer etc.., but also on how to gain power, and to use fear for controlling masses.

The only difference is that they didn't use the outdated concept of superior and minor races, but instead the concept of superior economy/religion/government to justify the ruling over other economies/religions/governments. The positive sideeffect is that at least genocide is out of discussion and unnecessary or even contraproductive.

What it boils down to, is that Hitler's war against terror was in reality a war between the german race and the jewish race (or against anyother), while Bush's war against terror is in reality a war between american globalism and islamic globalism (or against anyother).

Both had in mind a socialdarwinism, the survival of the fittest.

Taliesin