Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

ghporter · Apr 10, 2006, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

What do you expect with conservative America?

It's not a matter of conservative/liberal when it comes to military people. They both signed a contract and took a solemn oath to obey the rules-which are spelled out thoroughly and in great detail BEFORE it's too late to back out. Using pot or any other illegal drug is one of the first things a recruit is told about, including the fact that in Ann Arbor, Michigan you might get a ticket for having a joint on you, but on a military installation you can go to prison for a long, long time. It's not a surprise, it's not supposed to be. It's something the member has PROMISED NOT TO DO. I do not want someone who can't keep a simple promise like that to have access to weapons. Do YOU?

After a person finishes an enlistment and gets out, that's a completely different matter, but WHILE IN THE MILITARY, it's dumb, dishonorable and despicable.

Kevin · Apr 10, 2006, 10:20 PM

Don't mind him gh. He's just being a troll.

jamil5454 · Apr 11, 2006, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Pot smoking is a fine line for me, if I do too much I get really barfy and I have to sleep it off. If I do the right amount though I am good.

So you've thrown up from smoking too much? I though I was the only one.

Landos Mustache · Apr 11, 2006, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

So you've thrown up from smoking too much? I though I was the only one.

Ya I know a couple other people like that also.

Tuoder · Apr 11, 2006, 04:56 AM

I have been nauseous from smoking before. It was usually because it was old schwag, though.

Moderator · Apr 12, 2006, 10:48 AM

Anyone who risks their lives on behalf of US government and/or people should be able to set aside time to A) smoke pot and B) bang hookers. The gov't should look the other way..let these guys relax and de-stress from time to time christ.

and yes spliff...you should feel bad..in my opinion.

Dark Helmet · Apr 12, 2006, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Moderator

Anyone who risks their lives on behalf of US government and/or people should be able to set aside time to A) smoke pot and B) bang hookers.

Actually I think anyone should be allowed to do that.

isao bered · Apr 12, 2006, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by Moderator

Anyone who risks their lives on behalf of US government and/or people should be able to set aside time to A) smoke pot and B) bang hookers. The gov't should look the other way..let these guys relax and de-stress from time to time christ.

and yes spliff...you should feel bad..in my opinion.

?! cool. what other laws should military service members be allowed to break? i'm thinking total immunity to all traffic violations - including drinking and driving. the stress of the job demands it. also, it would be nice to not have to worry about prosecution for assault. beating people is a great way to relieve stress, too.

i mean, really, it's not like we *need* a mentally, physically, and spiritually (in the morale sense) healthy fighting force...

be well.

laeth

Spliffdaddy · Apr 12, 2006, 05:04 PM

ouch.

*SMACKDOWN*

Moderator · Apr 13, 2006, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by isao bered

?! cool. what other laws should military service members be allowed to break?

i mean, really, it's not like we *need* a mentally, physically, and spiritually (in the morale sense) healthy fighting force...

There is nothing wrong with two adults having sex...and there is nothing wong with smoking a J to take the edge off.

Obviously anything can be abused..I'm talking about being resposnible about it.....taking 150,000 men and putting them in a barracks for a year with no sexual outlet is a recipe for disaster....they're gonna need to unload one way or another.

... stripping detainees and kicking the crap out of them might be another avenue but i dont condone that.

Kevin · Apr 13, 2006, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by Moderator

and there is nothing wong with smoking a J to take the edge off.

Um yes, it's against the law. They knew that when they signed up.

Moderator · Apr 13, 2006, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Um yes, it's against the law. They knew that when they signed up.

It was once against the law to have a drink. to get a blow job from your wife. to open a shop on sunday. to marry someone of the opposite race.

don't equate legal/illegal with right/wrong.

sek929 · Apr 13, 2006, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Moderator

It was once against the law to have a drink. to get a blow job from your wife. to open a shop on sunday. to marry someone of the opposite race.

don't equate legal/illegal with right/wrong.

Bingo!

And don't compare driving drunk with smoking a joint behind the barracks, isao, the two are very different and you know it.

The Godfather · Apr 13, 2006, 12:59 PM

Yeah, because smoking behind the barracks and smoking on a picnic table is the same thing.

If they don't like the Army rules, they should leave the Army. They are cheating those soldiers who quit smoking after enlisting.

isao bered · Apr 13, 2006, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Moderator

I'm talking about being resposnible about it.....

no... you are talking specifically about being **irresponsible**. responsible people seek to obey the law - even if they disagree with it. irresponsible people may seek to break the law and then bitch about being held accountable for their actions.

abuse and/or use of certain drugs and toxins is prohibited in the military. certain sexual activities are prohibited in the military - things like visiting prostitutes and committing adultery to name a couple. responsible service members honor those policies. they don't intentionally create situations whereby their fellow servicemembers are unduly burdened.

when we lose members because of drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and various other disciplinary issues ready relief may not be forthcoming. perhaps four people will now have to perform the work normally assigned to five. when a member is burdened with medical issues that can result from these activities we are discussing, the same scenario applies.

no... i just don't see a responsible way to break the rules i agreed to upon entry.

be well.

laeth

isao bered · Apr 13, 2006, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

Bingo!

And don't compare driving drunk with smoking a joint behind the barracks, isao, the two are very different and you know it.

i *know* many things. such as i know it is idiocy for some here to rationalize irresponsible behaviour by those who have made the same or similar commitment i have. and while the actions may be dissimilar and the immediate consequences vary, the end result is the same - you broke regulations/laws and you will be held accountable.

be well.

laeth

Moderator · Apr 14, 2006, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by isao bered

you broke regulations/laws and you will be held accountable.

you continue to equate "rules" with "ethics" as if one needs to follow the rules in order to be ethical. There are plenty of "rules" or "laws" that are unethical to follow. There is not necessarily a connection between whats "illegal" and whats "wrong".

And there is nothing "wrong" with smoking a j in your off-time. Just like there's nothing wrong with having a beer. The only thing you keep saying is its wrong because its against the rules....can you think of another reason? Because that's a flawed argument.

Spliffdaddy · Apr 14, 2006, 01:39 PM

I agree with you.

However, it could be argued that enlisted servicemen really don't have any 'off time' if they must be available to respond anytime their presence is requested.

My biggest problem with the whole thing is that drinking alcohol would be acceptable behavior, while smoking marijuana is considered a criminal act.

isao bered · Apr 14, 2006, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Moderator

you continue to equate "rules" with "ethics" as if one needs to follow the rules in order to be ethical.

<snip>

The only thing you keep saying is its wrong because its against the rules....can you think of another reason? Because that's a flawed argument.

no. i'm not confusing anything. the military has both specific and general guidance that governs the profession - acting against that governance is unethical. by willingly breaking with those expected standards of conduct one is acting wrongly - especially so since one accepted those standards upon entry into service.

"the only thing..."?! please pay closer attention. a great portion of my post dealt with the likely effects on comrades. yes, smoking marijuana is wrong to do because it is against the rules. yes, it is unethical to do because it breaks the standards governing the profession. yes, it is a despicable thing to do because it breaks faith with comrades and tends to unduly burden them.

be well.

laeth

isao bered · Apr 14, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

My biggest problem with the whole thing is that drinking alcohol would be acceptable behavior, while smoking marijuana is considered a criminal act.

drinking alcohol *is* tolerated, but is not always considered acceptable behaviour. over the years alcohol abuse and addiction has come under continually closer scrutiny. policy-wise, punishments for inappropriate use of this legal substance seem to have become more severe and more certain.

yes, there is zero tolerance for illegal drug use; however, it is not necessarily correct to assume there is a very broad tolerance for alcohol abuse - it is a potentially dischargeable offense (particularly with incident involvement).

be well.

laeth