[Kevin]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

That's because you're a poor debater, not because you were a liberal.

Take lpk's word for it. It comes from experience .

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Actually, in the US you can give your child up and not have to raise it. Someone with more responsibility than you will take care of your "mistake".

There are millions of families clamoring for cheaper adoptions. They will take your unwanted babies.

[Monique]

So how many exactly that are ready to adopt up to 10 children.

[Spliffdaddy]

probably quite a few.

I know there are tens of millions who would love to adopt *any* child.

Face it, Monique, killing children is never going to be an acceptable solution.

No matter how badly you'd like it to be.

[lpkmckenna]

Well, it's July 1st, and abortion is still legal in South Dakota. So here's a happy dance:



See you all in November.

Originally Posted by ebuddy

They'll throw together a predicted, fruitless effort mid-June. Any thoughts on which States illegalize next?

How's that crow, ebuddy?

[lpkmckenna]

YouTube news report on the South Dakota abortion ban

State Senator Bill Napoli - a nut of the highest order.

[Railroader]

I've never seen anyone celebrate the killing of babies. Sad.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I've never seen anyone celebrate the killing of babies. Sad.

hyperbole™

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Face it, Monique, abortion is never going to be an acceptable solution. *edited for accuracy*

Never? How can it be "never" when it has been acceptable since at least 1972?

Wow, a mutual occurrence of hyperbole and error. I never would have expected that!

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I've never seen anyone celebrate the killing of babies. Sad.

For certain definitions of "baby," I'm sure you have.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Busemann

hyperbole™

Did you have a English lesson in grade school? Good for you.

My statements still stands.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

For certain definitions of "baby," I'm sure you have.

Conceived child. No, I haven't. I found it pathetic.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Conceived child. No, I haven't. I found it pathetic.

You don't know anyone who likes veal?

[Kevin]

Do they make veal out of growing living humans?

If not, it's irrelevant.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by chuckit

You don't know anyone who likes veal?

Oh, I see. you're being stupid on purpose. Cute.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Conceived child. No, I haven't. I found it pathetic.

Oh look! "Baby" pictures.....



tasteless abortion humor

[Kevin]

Ah but most aren't done at that stage.

Lets be a bit honest lpk.

[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Oh look! "Baby" pictures.....

awwww look at baby! lol

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah but most aren't done at that stage.

Lets be a bit honest lpk.

Yes, let's all be honest. Except for when it's time to refer to something called an "embryo" by a term we know is incorrect, like "baby." in that case, honesty is superfluous.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Railroader

My statements still stands

..as hyperbolic, yes.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

Yes, let's all be honest. Except for when it's time to refer to something called an "embryo" by a term we know is incorrect, like "baby." in that case, honesty is superfluous.

I am being honest. Most abortions occur after said pictures are take. Most abortions occur when you can tell very well what it is inside the mother's stomachs.
I'm the one being honest.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Oh, I see. you're being stupid on purpose. Cute.

No, I'm making the point that by your idea of "baby," these people are happy about killing babies. By theirs, they are talking about something else entirely.

[saddino]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Most abortions occur when you can tell very well what it is inside the mother's stomachs.

Uh, Kevin, you do know that when your parents told you a "baby grows in a mother's tummy" they we're just simplifying things for you, right?

But to get back on point, you are being honest only about your opinion, which by the way, is wrong:

According to the CDC's 2002 comprehensive report on abortion:

Of all abortions for which gestational age was reported, 60% were performed at <8 weeks' gestation and 88% at <13 weeks. From 1992 (when detailed data regarding early abortions were first collected) through 2002, steady increases have occurred in the percentage of abortions performed at <6 weeks' gestation. A limited number of abortions was obtained at >15 weeks' gestation, including 4.1% at 16--20 weeks and 1.4% at >21 weeks.

Of course, I suppose it's possible your parents also told you that "most" meant something else, too.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Busemann

..as hyperbolic, yes.

You got it! You passed 3rd grade!! WOO HOOO!!!!

Hyperbole-

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Oh look! "Baby" pictures.....

The amazingness of life. It's amazing what just a sperm and egg can produce.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

tasteless abortion humor

I didn't visit your link.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

No, I'm making the point that by your idea of "baby," these people are happy about killing babies. By theirs, they are talking about something else entirely.

Good for you. Do you feel better about about your tasteless humor concerning the topic of abortion? Do you joke about other people having cancer and going through chemotherapy?

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Railroader

You got it! You passed 3rd grade!! WOO HOOO!!!!

Hyperbole-

A figure of speech in which exaggeration is used for emphasis or effect, as in I could sleep for a year or This book weighs a ton.

Yeah your statement was hyperbolic. A correct one would be 'people are celebrating the fact that women still have a choice' or something like that.

oh, and do get down off this silly high horse of yours

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Yeah your statement was hyperbolic. A correct one would be 'people are celebrating the fact that women still have a choice' or something like that.

oh, and do get down off this silly high horse of yours

[img]http://www.horse-of-dream.vsau.ru/ind.jpg[img]

Pot, meet kettle.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Good for you. Do you feel better about about your tasteless humor concerning the topic of abortion? Do you joke about other people having cancer and going through chemotherapy?

Good questions. Do you ever try to take away other people's choice to undergo chemotherapy? Or what about their choice to engage in activities that increase their risk of cancer, like smoking or eating charred meat?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton

Good questions. Do you ever try to take away other people's choice to undergo chemotherapy? Or what about their choice to engage in activities that increase their risk of cancer, like smoking or eating charred meat?

Excellent question. Would you take away someone's choice to live?

[Uncle Skeleton]

No.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Excellent question. Would you take away someone's choice to live?

If that "someone" is 1) within just a few months of being a fertilized egg, and 2) inside another person's body, then I'd leave it up to that person whose body this someone is inside.

There's no way around it: You want the government to force pregnant women to give birth against their will. And that's the only difference between those of us who are pro-choice and those of you who are pro-life. We want to see all abortions end (via better education, better medicine, better access to contraceptives, etc.), but we're not willing to use the government to force pregnant women to give birth against their will like you are.

Throw into the mix the fact that many pro-lifers are against the very contraceptives and education that would reduce abortion, and your left with the fundamental immorality of a large segment of the pro-life side.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Excellent question. Would you take away someone's choice to live?

A fetus is not a "someone" it is a "something". See the difference?


I know you don't. But that is the main difference between those who are pro-life and those who are pro-abortion, when does a clump of growing cells turn into a human: Some say at the moment of conception, others say when there is a fully developed brainstem, still others not until it comes out of the woman.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Excellent question. Would you take away someone's choice to live?

I would in some cases. For instance, when they are threatening somebody else's life, I think it is permissible to kill them without asking permission.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Excellent question. Would you take away someone's choice to live?

So you're really one of them peaceniks, huh?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by saddino

Uh, Kevin, you do know that when your parents told you a "baby grows in a mother's tummy" they we're just simplifying things for you, right?

100% Silly

But to get back on point, you are being honest only about your opinion, which by the way, is wrong:

According to the CDC's 2002 comprehensive report on abortion:

Point to me were exactly it says i am wrong.

Of course, I suppose it's possible your parents also told you that "most" meant something else, too.

100% Silly

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by BRussell

If that "someone" is 1) within just a few months of being a fertilized egg, and 2) inside another person's body, then I'd leave it up to that person whose body this someone is inside.

Didn't they have that choice when they were having sex?

Originally Posted by BRussell

There's no way around it: You want the government to force pregnant women to give birth against their will.

WRONG! I want them to live the life of their choices. Their choice to have unprotected sex.

Originally Posted by BRussell

And that's the only difference between those of us who are pro-choice and those of you who are pro-life.

WRONG, there are many differences. You don't believe in taking responsibility for your action.

Originally Posted by BRussell

We want to see all abortions end (via better education, better medicine, better access to contraceptives, etc.), but we're not willing to use the government to force pregnant women to give birth against their will like you are.

I am willing to use the goverment to protect lives. to better society by making people accountable.

Originally Posted by BRussell

Throw into the mix the fact that many pro-lifers are against the very contraceptives and education that would reduce abortion, and your left with the fundamental immorality of a large segment of the pro-life side.

I am not in that mix. No need to bring it up as they are a near silent minority. Education is they key. Education is paramount. Teens need to learn that the best way not to get pregnant is to not have sex until they are ready for children beacause condoms are NOT reliable long term solutions.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Busemann

So you're really one of them peaceniks, huh?

Whatever label you want to put on me. As long as it is a lable that identifies me as someone who thinks we don't have a right to kill.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I would in some cases. For instance, when they are threatening somebody else's life, I think it is permissible to kill them without asking permission.

Why not just kill them if you think they might harm you? Why not just kill anyone? Why are you taking away the choice of people to kill indiscriminately?

[Chuckit]

Who said anything about being indiscriminant?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

A fetus is not a "someone" it is a "something". See the difference?

It is the beginning of life. It is not malignant. It is not a random growth. It is not a "simple clump of rowing cells". It has a purpose and was placed there with intent.

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

I know you don't.

I see you don't know the difference betwwen when life begins either.

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

But that is the main difference between those who are pro-life and those who are pro-abortion, when does a clump of growing cells turn into a human: Some say at the moment of conception, others say when there is a fully developed brainstem, still others not until it comes out of the woman.

I say conception. No one knows for sure, but I am playing it safe. You can be reckless with human life, I'll play this part of my life conservatively.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Who said anything about being indiscriminant?

A serial killer. Why are you taking away his choice to kill indiscriminately? If you beleive in "choice" so much?

[Chuckit]

Earth to Kilbey, come in Kilbey. We're losing touch with you.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by BRussell

If that "someone" is 1) within just a few months of being a fertilized egg, and 2) inside another person's body, then I'd leave it up to that person whose body this someone is inside.

There's no way around it: You want the government to force pregnant women to give birth against their will. And that's the only difference between those of us who are pro-choice and those of you who are pro-life. We want to see all abortions end (via better education, better medicine, better access to contraceptives, etc.), but we're not willing to use the government to force pregnant women to give birth against their will like you are.

Throw into the mix the fact that many pro-lifers are against the very contraceptives and education that would reduce abortion, and your left with the fundamental immorality of a large segment of the pro-life side.

This is the most common arguement I hear from the pro-choice side. I may make a few generalizations here that don't apply to everyone. Please forgive me. The pro-choice side generally pushes for the giving away of condoms in elementary school (at LEAST middle school) which I think is absurd. (Better access to contraceptives.) This is based on the premise that "They're going to do it anyway, so lets make it safe for them." What this does is take a way resonsibility for the choice of having sex. If anything it encourages having sex amoung young people--they're not as worried about the potential consequences of thier actions. "Well, if I get pregnant, I can always get rid of it..." The best way to learn is to be faced with the horrors of reality.

I knew a girl in High School who was date-raped, got pregnant from it, carried the baby to term, and put him up for adoption. I also happen to know the parents who adopted him. I seem them every couple years or so, and I cry every time I see him. That child brought joy to a couple who couldn't have their own children. It's a beautiful thing.

In my mind the "Rhight to Choose" is really "The Right to Choose to End a Life." No one should have that right.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Railroader

It is the beginning of life. It is not malignant. It is not a random growth. It is not a "simple clump of rowing cells". It has a purpose and was placed there with intent.

Placed there with intent? By whom?

Originally Posted by Railroader

I see you don't know the difference betwwen when life begins either.

I say conception. No one knows for sure, but I am playing it safe.

Actually, we do know for sure: an embryo is alive. That's not the issue. The issue is whether this life is a "person," morally and legally.

Originally Posted by Railroader

You can be reckless with human life, I'll play this part of my life conservatively.

You play your life conservatively, and let me live mine how I wish.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Railroader

It is the beginning of life. It is not malignant. It is not a random growth. It is not a "simple clump of rowing cells". It has a purpose and was placed there with intent.

This is mere assertion. You can't just assert "I'm right and you're wrong" and expect that to convince anybody.

[lpkmckenna]

Nine Reasons Why Abortions Are Legal

Philosophically, the most important reason: A woman is more than a fetus.

Some people argue these days that a fetus is a "person" that is "indistinguishable from the rest of us" and that it deserves rights equal to women's. On this question there is a tremendous spectrum of religious, philosophical, scientific, and medical opinion. It's been argued for centuries. Fortunately, our society has recognized that each woman must be able to make this decision, based on her own conscience. To impose a law defining a fetus as a "person," granting it rights equal to or superior to a woman's — a thinking, feeling, conscious human being — is arrogant and absurd. It only serves to diminish women.

Morally, the most important reason: Laws against abortion kill women.

To prohibit abortions does not stop them. When women feel it is absolutely necessary, they will choose to have abortions, even in secret, without medical care, in dangerous circumstances. In the two decades before abortion was legal in the U.S., it's been estimated that nearly a million women per year sought out illegal abortions. Thousands died. Tens of thousands were mutilated. All were forced to behave as if they were criminals.

See also: Five Ways to Prevent Abortion (And One Way That Won't)

[placebo1969]

I always thought Planned Parenthood is a very ironic name.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Didn't they have that choice when they were having sex?

No.

Originally Posted by Railroader

WRONG! I want them to live the life of their choices. Their choice to have unprotected sex.

Come back to reality. Unprotected sex is not the only reason for unplanned pregnancy.

Originally Posted by Railroader

WRONG, there are many differences. You don't believe in taking responsibility for your action.

Having an abortion isn't evading responsibility. It's one of several ways to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Railroader

I am willing to use the goverment to protect lives. to better society by making people accountable.

Banning abortion won't make society more accountable. Treating fetuses as if they were morally equivalent to people is flagrantly irrational.

Originally Posted by Railroader

Teens need to learn that the best way not to get pregnant is to not have sex until they are ready for children beacause condoms are NOT reliable long term solutions.

I'm all for ABC-style teaching. But that has nothing to do with abortion legality.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by placebo1969

I always thought Planned Parenthood is a very ironic name.

Well, they help out the girls who didn't plan on parenthood. I guess "Unplanned Parenthood" would be better huh...