[Ron Goodman]

FDR sent those GIs off with a declaration of war from the Congress of the time, something that no president since then has thought worth the time to secure.

[Sky Captain]

The Democrats are calling their new plan for Iraq "Operation Somalia."

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

Bataan. There's a real winner for humanity.
Has Japan apologized for that yet? Nanking?


What no mention of German internment?
My father hunted his own people as well as my Uncle.
And their farhers fought their own people 25 years earlier.

The difference between FDR and Bush: FDR sent tens of thousands of GI's to their death for something that would have worked itself out in Europe and Asia.
And we're still stuck there.
I got stuck there.

It is exceedingly rare to see someone speak out against US involvement in World War II. I'm literally speechless.

I'll assume, though, that if you are opposed to US involvement in Europe, then obviously you must also be against our involvement in the Middle East. Only the most isolationist of ideologies could dismiss Hitler's pursuit of hegemony over the continent--which would have succeeded were it not for US material aid to Russia--and Japan's imperial designs on such huge swaths of the Pacific as things which would "work themselves out," therefore the only logical conclusion is that the affairs of the Middle East would also "work themselves out," even if that working-out ended with a few mushroom clouds here and there.

So, I applaud your consistent worldview that denounces all US involvement outside its borders. Though I disagree with such a monolithic point of view, I cannot argue with its consistency...that is, so long as you are opposed to the war in Iraq, 'cause if not, what you said about WWII makes no sense whatsoever.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by art_director 

Thank you, that's a well-crafted and accurate telling of the facts.

I would make this one edit / addition:

The Bush family, going back four generations, realized the power and profit in war. They also realized the power and profit in oil. This conflict afforded George W. Bush both. Dubya learned this from his father, who learned it from his father, etc. My point is that this war was in planning long before September 11, the vial of white powder or the botched FBI intelligence.

A study of the Bush and Walker ( where George's 'W' comes from ) families will quickly bring people up to speed on these facts.

Thank you, but with all due respect, Bush doesn't seem to have learned anything from his father.

All this Bush has done is proven the validity of all the reasons his father gave for not going into Baghdad.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

It is exceedingly rare to see someone speak out against US involvement in World War II. I'm literally speechless.

I'll assume, though, that if you are opposed to US involvement in Europe, then obviously you must also be against our involvement in the Middle East. Only the most isolationist of ideologies could dismiss Hitler's pursuit of hegemony over the continent--which would have succeeded were it not for US material aid to Russia--and Japan's imperial designs on such huge swaths of the Pacific as things which would "work themselves out," therefore the only logical conclusion is that the affairs of the Middle East would also "work themselves out," even if that working-out ended with a few mushroom clouds here and there.

So, I applaud your consistent worldview that denounces all US involvement outside its borders. Though I disagree with such a monolithic point of view, I cannot argue with its consistency...that is, so long as you are opposed to the war in Iraq, 'cause if not, what you said about WWII makes no sense whatsoever.

I got to do GW1. Should have let Saddam have Kuwait. Lock stock and barrel.
And move into SA to top it off.

[ink]

OK, it's over.

Did y'all notice the new Macbooks?

Tasty!

[Helmling]

No kidding, one of the college tutors who works at my school had just bought a MacBook, but now he's sending it in for one of the new ones, which will make his 25% better than the one I'm typing on now...god, that irks me! My wife won't let me buy another new computer for years and...

Hey, wait a second! This is the war forum!

[Sky Captain]

I just returned a Compac notebook.
(I got a nasty messenger virus the second day I used it, pissed me off so I returned it)
I just may replace it with a Macbook. I wish they coded my software I need for Mac.

[ink]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

I just returned a Compac notebook.
(I got a nasty messenger virus the second day I used it, pissed me off so I returned it)
I just may replace it with a Macbook. I wish they coded my software I need for Mac.

Well, you can dual-boot or otherwise do VM on the Macbook.

[Sky Captain]

Yeah I thought of that.
But the Windoze side would propably just get infected again.
AND I would have to buy Windoze.

I'm still on the fence. I wanna buy a new Mitchel MX170 for the Beech though.

[Volanges]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

this is the 6 year itch and nothing more.

Still in denial today, I see. Sad.

Oh, and AP and NBC just officially called the Virginia race for Webb. Guess what THAT means?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain 

Yeah I thought of that.
But the Windoze side would propably just get infected again.
AND I would have to buy Windoze.

I'm still on the fence. I wanna buy a new Mitchel MX170 for the Beech though.

Use a VM. Set it up how you want with the stuff you need. Make a copy of the VM. If/when it gets infected or unusable, chuck it in the trash and start with clean one.

[Sky Captain]

VM=Virtual Machine?
I guess I gotta learn to do that.

[Mark Larr]

I set up a VM on a new Macbook and it is noticably slower under Parallels.

[Nicko]

A 25-point manifesto for the first 100 hours of the new Congress was just leeked:

1. Mandatory homosexuality
2. Drug-filled condoms in schools
3. Introduce the new Destruction of Marriage Act
4. Border fence replaced with free shuttle buses
5. Osama Bin Laden to be Secretary of State
6. Withdraw from Iraq, apologize, reinstate Hussein
7. English language banned from all Federal buildings
8. Math classes replaced by encounter groups
9. All taxes to be tripled
10. All fortunes over $250,000 to be confiscated
11. On-demand welfare
12. Tofurkey to be named official Thanksgiving dish
13. Freeways to be removed, replaced with light rail systems
14. Pledge of Allegiance in schools replaced with morning flag-burning
15. Stem cells allowed to be harvested from any child under the age of 8
16. Comatose people to be ground up and fed to poor
17. Quarterly mandatory abortion lottery
18. God to be mocked roundly
19. Dissolve Executive Branch: reassign responsibilities to UN
20. Jane Fonda to be appointed Secretary of Appeasement
21. Outlaw all firearms: previous owners assigned to anger management therapy
22. Texas returned to Mexico
23. Ban Christmas: replace with Celebrate our Monkey Ancestors Day
24. Carter added to Mount Rushmore
25. Modify USA's motto to "Land of the French and the home of the brave"


I didn't write it, just sharing.

[Dakar²]

Science help us.

[Helmling]

HA HA!

South Park! Those boys will spare no one. Well, good for them.

[Mark Larr]

16. Comatose people to be ground up and fed to poor.

Rock on!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Volanges 

Still in denial today, I see. Sad.

Oh, and AP and NBC just officially called the Virginia race for Webb. Guess what THAT means?

The Dems have 6 years to be blamed until it switches back again?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Volanges 

Still in denial today, I see. Sad.

Oh, and AP and NBC just officially called the Virginia race for Webb. Guess what THAT means?

OH, and it also means there won't be any real legislation passed for the next 2 years. That's a big plus. Total government gridlock is a great thing.

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

OH, and it also means there won't be any real legislation passed for the next 2 years. That's a big plus. Total government gridlock is a great thing.

hmmm

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

My hope is that Bush will just get out his Veto rubber stamp and just tag everything that crosses his desk for the next 27 months.

Hell, he can just stay in Crawford and let new bills just rot. I'd love that.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Nicko 

16. Comatose people to be ground up and fed to poor

Soilent Green is PEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPP LLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEE!!!!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

hmmm

No idea what you're pointing out, both statements say the same thing.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

OH, and it also means there won't be any real legislation passed for the next 2 years. That's a big plus. Total government gridlock is a great thing.

Amen.

[G Barnett]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

No idea what you're pointing out, both statements say the same thing.

Not exactly. In the second one he quoted, it looks like you forgot that if a president neither vetoes nor signs a bill, it will still count as being passed and become law. I forget the timing, but I do know there have been (somewhat) recent bills that presidents refused to sign as a protest, but that weren't worth vetoing either, and they became law after a certain period.

So, he can't just let bills rot on his desk if he doesn't want them to become law -- he must veto them.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by G Barnett 

Not exactly. In the second one he quoted, it looks like you forgot that if a president neither vetoes nor signs a bill, it will still count as being passed and become law. I forget the timing, but I do know there have been (somewhat) recent bills that presidents refused to sign as a protest, but that weren't worth vetoing either, and they became law after a certain period.

So, he can't just let bills rot on his desk if he doesn't want them to become law -- he must veto them.

He can pocket veto if he fails to sign a bill after Congress has adjourned.


Considering how short the session is, and how long he has to decide, that can be as much as half of a session's business.

[sek929]

MacNStein,

You mock liberals for wanting the war to fail, then you yourself admit you want the democratic process to fail just so you can laugh at liberals.

The P/L is like a years worth of hypocrisy jammed into an hour.

[Dakar²]

Thick & Rich�

Edit: Up yours, Quick Reply

[sek929]

Do the safety dance!

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Do the safety dance!

Awesome. Awesome to the max.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by sek929 

MacNStein,

You mock liberals for wanting the war to fail, then you yourself admit you want the democratic process to fail just so you can laugh at liberals.

The P/L is like a years worth of hypocrisy jammed into an hour.

Just realize that none of the legislation you're dying for is going to come to fruition?

I want the Federal gov't to bog down into an ineffectual morass, because that's when we seem to be the most effective.

FYI, the war itself is already funded for the remainder of the year, and they'll continue to do so. Failure to follow through would cause a disaster, and the Dems wouldn't want to be held reseponsible for that.

So, only things that Bush likes will be made into law, and Congress won't likely present anything new that Bush likes... Seems like a great Catch-22, from where I'm sitting.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

So, only things that Bush likes will be made into law, and Congress won't likely present anything new that Bush likes... Seems like a great Catch-22, from where I'm sitting.

Bush doesn't have to veto anything, he got the Congress to pass that Signing bill where he gets to inerpret anything.

The Dems could put up a bill that says "New sources for stem cell research will be opened for Federal Funding."

Bush just attaches a letter to it saying, "I interpret 'will' as 'won't.'"

[art_director]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

OH, and it also means there won't be any real legislation passed for the next 2 years. That's a big plus. Total government gridlock is a great thing.

No legislation is better than shiity legislation. Christ knows we've had six years of that.

[ironknee]

it's official...let's dance!

[art_director]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

it's official...let's dance!

I got my jig on,,,

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

it's official...let's dance!

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by art_director 

No legislation is better than shiity legislation. Christ knows we've had six years of that.

So now you decide to believe in Him?

[art_director]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

So now you decide to believe in Him?

Christ? Do I believe in Christ? Well, yeah, I believe there was a dude named 'Christ.' Did he walk on water and turn a California Rool into enough fish to feed the masses? No.

[ironknee]

i know a spanish guy name jesus

[art_director]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

i know a spanish guy name jesus

I know that dude. He sells loose joints in the park, right?

[sek929]

Originally Posted by MacNStein 

Just realize that none of the legislation you're dying for is going to come to fruition?

I want the Federal gov't to bog down into an ineffectual morass, because that's when we seem to be the most effective.

FYI, the war itself is already funded for the remainder of the year, and they'll continue to do so. Failure to follow through would cause a disaster, and the Dems wouldn't want to be held reseponsible for that.

So, only things that Bush likes will be made into law, and Congress won't likely present anything new that Bush likes... Seems like a great Catch-22, from where I'm sitting.

You still seem maliciously happy that nothing will get done, something I could have sworn you were above

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by sek929 

You still seem maliciously happy that nothing will get done, something I could have sworn you were above

I get deliriously happy over anything that throws the Feds into chaos. I hope they spend the next 2 years untying knots in their red tape.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by art_director 

Christ? Do I believe in Christ? Well, yeah, I believe there was a dude named 'Christ.' Did he walk on water and turn a California Rool into enough fish to feed the masses? No.

Actually "Christ" wasn't his name. It's more like a title, and some secular scholars question whether the guy whose name was Jesus actually thought he was "the Christ" as his followers would later claim on his behalf.

[Monique]

I loved it when Bush said about Rumsfeld that he did not want to interject his decision to fire Rumsfeld into the election. Let's see if the Republicans would have kept the House and the Senate would he have fired Rumsfeld. I guess the answer would be NO.

[kobi]

Originally Posted by MacNStein
Just realize that none of the legislation you're dying for is going to come to fruition?

I want the Federal gov't to bog down into an ineffectual morass, because that's when we seem to be the most effective.

FYI, the war itself is already funded for the remainder of the year, and they'll continue to do so. Failure to follow through would cause a disaster, and the Dems wouldn't want to be held reseponsible for that.

So, only things that Bush likes will be made into law, and Congress won't likely present anything new that Bush likes... Seems like a great Catch-22, from where I'm sitting.

I guess MacNStein forgot a little thing called Congressional Overrides.

Look it up it's in Article 1 Section 7 of the US Constitution.

My guess is we'll see a bunch of them in the upcoming session.

Here's a link in case anyone forgot what they learned in Government like MacNStein did.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...pdf/98-157.pdf

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by kobi 

Here's a link in case anyone forgot what they learned in Government like MacNStein did.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reso...pdf/98-157.pdf

You might have slept through the part in Civics class where they told you that Congress needs a 2/3 majority in both houses to veto. Since the Democrats have a razor-thin majority, the only things that would be overridden are things with strong Republican support as well -- and wouldn't Bush be more likely to sign the two of three things that come across his desk in the next two years that both sides can agree on?

It's much mroe likely that Congress passes bills that they know the President has no intent on signing, knowing that they'll never get the votes to override, just to make the other side look bad. MacNStein is rooting for this, I think because if the two sides are too busy swinging at each other, neither will have a hand free to put in his pocket or wag a finger at him....

[macintologist]

Did you get that from http://www.rightwasright.us/?

Because that domain was registered two days before this post.

Originally Posted by Nicko 

A 25-point manifesto for the first 100 hours of the new Congress was just leeked:

1. Mandatory homosexuality
2. Drug-filled condoms in schools
3. Introduce the new Destruction of Marriage Act
4. Border fence replaced with free shuttle buses
5. Osama Bin Laden to be Secretary of State
6. Withdraw from Iraq, apologize, reinstate Hussein
7. English language banned from all Federal buildings
8. Math classes replaced by encounter groups
9. All taxes to be tripled
10. All fortunes over $250,000 to be confiscated
11. On-demand welfare
12. Tofurkey to be named official Thanksgiving dish
13. Freeways to be removed, replaced with light rail systems
14. Pledge of Allegiance in schools replaced with morning flag-burning
15. Stem cells allowed to be harvested from any child under the age of 8
16. Comatose people to be ground up and fed to poor
17. Quarterly mandatory abortion lottery
18. God to be mocked roundly
19. Dissolve Executive Branch: reassign responsibilities to UN
20. Jane Fonda to be appointed Secretary of Appeasement
21. Outlaw all firearms: previous owners assigned to anger management therapy
22. Texas returned to Mexico
23. Ban Christmas: replace with Celebrate our Monkey Ancestors Day
24. Carter added to Mount Rushmore
25. Modify USA's motto to "Land of the French and the home of the brave"


I didn't write it, just sharing.