[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Gavin

This could work if it were kept as a loose virtual hierarchy

Gavin that's exactly the type of system I was thinking of but obviously you explained it better.

Most people dont keep their files organized anyways, they just dump everything into my documents and scroll up and down till they find it, or they just lose stuff in other folders which they can't even remember. An iPod style column view in the finder would make it a lot easier for the average user to find his files.

[Kerrigan]

Those screenshots are really boring, it almost looks like Platinum all over again. Why would someone switch from Vista or XP to that?

[Eug Wanker]

For the same reason they would switch from XP to Tiger? Actually, Leopard will have more than Tiger, so there will be even more reason to switch.

[Toyin]

Originally Posted by Gavin

This could work if it were kept as a loose virtual hierarchy. And only as an addition to normal column view. There are several standard bits of meta data that every file has. We already have a bit of this functionality, but it is spread around:

The Open Recent item in the file menu (any self respecting app has this)
The Go menu shows you recent folders where you saved/opened things
Smart folders can list files based on all sorts of criteria - most recent, etc.

Essentially you would have nested smart folders that can build themselves on the fly. But instead of fiddling with query building popups the interface would act just like browsing with column view.

Even with only four or five standard bits of info tunneling could be very useful.

most recent > text files > example.txt
applications > text edit > files > example.txt
text files > saved today > example.txt
text files > owned by me > example.txt
email attachments > I got yesterday > example.txt

And it would be loose, so that you could do this:

most recent > text files > example.txt

or this:

text files > most recent > example.txt

The beauty of this approach is there are many ways to tunnel in and find the same document. So no matter how your mind works one path will work for you. Very Mac-like!

This would rock if tied into the idea of "Projects" aka "Workspace" aka "Scene", etc. A group of related files.

If you could just tag your files with a couple of meta data fields on save this would be even more useful. A couple obvious ones are Project and Category , or define your own (keywords/tags, etc.). So as I save example.txt, with a couple of quick clicks I flag it as belonging to the " Bob Co Proposal " project and as "work related", and "draft" (or whatever).

Projects > Bob Co Proposal > all files > example.txt
Categories > work related > last month > example.txt

Once you get to example.txt you right click for the contextual menu and choose "open all documents in this project", and boom, everything related to "Bob Co. Proposal" opens in various applications. A spread sheet, two Word Docs, some artwork in photoshop, a couple of web pages with research and your notes (as 4 stickies) all pop up.

Brilliant!

I had trouble imagining how a finder based purely on metadata would work but these examples are great. I'd imagine save dialogs would contain metadata fields where you could add as much information as you wanted. This would force users to at least think about how they may want to retrieve data later. Applications would automatically stamp data like date, application, type of document and the user could enter the rest. Great thing is this would work for disorganized folks just as well as the anal retentive.

Hmmm, you've suddenly make my organized folder structure obsolete. Now I hope we have this option in the Leopard Finder. I was doubtful about iTunes and iPhoto managing my files, but when you work with just the application and forget the folders it's much easier managing files.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Those screenshots are really boring, it almost looks like Platinum all over again. Why would someone switch from Vista or XP to that?

Exactly. Side by side Vista looks more advanced because it is fancier, transparent windows, 3d effects, the sidebar.

I am not saying I want those things in Tiger but they have to glitz it up, it is 2007 and it looks almost the same as 2000! If anything the non-metal finder looks even more bland.

Friggin tabs in the finder and merging addressbook and iCal isn't going to do that.

[voodoo]

Those images may be fake, but they are just about what I expect from Apple as a 'major' update to the Finder. Sheesh.

V

[Kerrigan]

Is it true that 10.5 is gonna be the last major update for a while? They'd better pull out all the stops, otherwise Vista will steal the show whenever its released.

[moonmonkey]

Those screenshots are so fake, one of the icons in the finder is so un-apple it hilarious.

A new version of IE? please... this is total crap.
Apple need to pull something spectacular out of the bag this time, it really is crunch time.
If they do some magic they have a real chance to make a dent in MS while everyone is still running XP or reeling from Vista's problems.

I hope it happens.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Is it true that 10.5 is gonna be the last major update for a while? They'd better pull out all the stops, otherwise Vista will steal the show whenever its released.

10.5 will be the last major update for a while just like 10.4 was the only major update for a while. Both were slated to come out shortly before Vista, if I recall.

[LightWaver-67]

Vista-schmista...

Is Vista REALLY that relevant to Mac users...? I mean, really...?

To everyone I know, both Mac and WinPC users... Microsoft is no-longer this untouchable giant. It seems that most people I know ( all couple-dozen of them... heheheh ) are either fed-up with Microsoft or have bought-into the fact that Vista is gonna be (yet again) another rehash of Windows with a lot of it's existing problems carried over... just a slinkier interface with a lot of graphic bells-n-whistles.

Perception is reality, eh...?

It doesn't mean their all gonna SWITCH to a Mac... but I don't think most people believe Vista is gonna be this great "solution" for them... and I'm not sure why Mac OS X of any flavor is really being compared to Win of any flavor anymore.

Maybe I'm the one out-of-touch, but it just seems irrelevant to compare the two.

Sorry for the "trolling"... I just felt the urge to chime-in there... be it right or wrong.

Later...

[Toyin]

If you look at the screenshot/photoshop you'll notice a few things.

1. IE is NOT a OS-X application. It's supposed to demonstrate a XP application running in OSX almost like a classical application.

2. The shadowing effects are consistent with having the Finder being the front most application and IE in the rear.

3. In the about this Mac box, there is an additional line that informs you of what version of Windows you're using. Presumably you would install Windows on a separate partition and run it within OS-X like parallels.

4. The warping effect is changing from one desktop to the other. The dock is not distorted because presumably in this implementation the dock is static across desktops. Using this effect instead of the cube rotation would help differentiate switching users from switching desktops. (Though anyone using multiple desktops would probably know what they're doing)

5. In the about this Mac box, the core duo is reading 1gb of DDR ram. Either they change the labeling in 10.5 or it's a photochop boo-boo.

6. The weird B in MacBook (IE webpage) could be a rendering defect of IE or compression artifact from the screenshot

It's all very interesting, real or fake? I'm leaning towards fake, but the ideas are cool. I hope that if Apple develops a 'classic' type environment for Windows. However they need to offer some sort of protection to the OSX environment from spyware and malware.

In addition, Apple HAS to come up with some plan so developers won't just develop for Windows. At minimum they would need to develop an X-Code that can compile applications for both Windows and OSX. There also needs to be some incentive to move to X-Code. If Apple marketshare increased significantly, that might be enough, but who knows?

[Peabo]

I remember when practically no one would believe the widgets weren't a fake.

[Kerrigan]

Unlike the widgets, what's unbelievable about these new "features" is that they're so boring, they must be fake.

[Peabo]

I doubt you know many of the new features from looking at 3 beta screenshots

[Toyin]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Unlike the widgets, what's unbelievable about these new "features" is that they're so boring, they must be fake.

Boring, like running windows applications native within OS X?
If this is boring, I'd like to hear what your idea of exciting is.

This feature alone would be well worth the upgrade.

[silverboy31]

Images have now been confirmed as fake...... http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/2....html....enjoy

[Kerrigan]

This thread is about OSX's UI. Check the last few pages and you'll see some interesting ideas about how the OSX interface can be changed to make it new and exciting again.

I hate to say it but Aqua is gonna seem old and boring next to Vista, especially if it looks anything like those fake screenshots.

[silverboy31]

Images have been confirmed as fake... http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/2...n_archive.html

[Peabo]

Egg & bacon on my face

[LightWaver-67]

I love it if not for JUST the fact that it got me excited to think about the next version.

Fine. I admit it... I drank the KoolAid™... I am one of those that drools over the new features and counts the days until the version is released. I plunk-down the $129 every time.

Seeing those screenshots (albeit fake) got me jonesin' for some new OSX.

WooHOO! Bring on da real stuff!

[kcmac]

When people using Vista realize just how bad the see thru windows, et al are, they will add more opacity...just as OS X has done over the versions. I would think MS would have learned a little something from Apples experience. Especially since they seem to be adopting so much of it. Just cuz they can put a familiar wrapper on it, doesn't mean they understand what's important underneath.

You nervous nellies need to settle down. Leopard will smoke Vista. If and when Vista appears. Plus, from what I've witnessed, Panther meets or beats it now.

Beyond the new features that will occur, I just really want to see a uniformity in the look of the apps. So much has happened so fast in the OS X transition that I think this will finally be able to happen. I will buy it just for that reason. Well, and because I always buy the new version. Gotta have it.

[Kerrigan]

Vista's UI is crap but apparently the graphics engine is very nice and so I can imagine people making themes for it which will be very impressive.

[Landos Mustache]

I am so happy those leaked shots are fake, I was worried for a while.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

I am so happy those leaked shots are fake, I was worried for a while.

The funny part is the leaked shots of the Finder looked just like the 10.5 video you started a thread about in the Lounge.

(P.S. I hosted it on my webspace. The original site seems to be taking a beating.)

[GnOm]

Exposé - has to go
Dashboard - has to die too
Spotlight - do it right or let it die
Finder - drop the old one and start over, work out a concept and stick with it no matter if people what this or that "back"


cheers.

[Macanoid]

Exposé go?? Well, not for me. Switch it off if you don't like it.

Dashboard: It can be (very) useful. Thing is, when you have to many widgets it's easy to lose track of what you have. Apple should allow you to switch between sets.

I'm a big fan of Launchbar, and I trigger Spotlight from launchbar. Gives be a much better interface-experience!

I use Pathfinder as a Finder replacement and like it ok. Still, with utilities like Launchbar (or Quicksilver / Butler) I hardly need the Finder.

[Gee4orce]

Jobs is a showman - he understands more than anybody that features don't sell an OS. Sexy interface gadgets sell the OS

That's why there was such a huge emphasis on Dashboard when Tiger was released. Arguably, Spotlight was the killer feature of Tiger, but Jobs was all over the Dashboard and it's whizz-bang eye-candy.

I'm pretty confident that there'll be plenty of new eye-candy in the OS - even if the workhorse Finder gets totally revamped functionally. It'll be the eye candy that appeals to the heart, the all new power Finder that appeals to the head.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by GnOm

Exposé - has to go
Dashboard - has to die too
Spotlight - do it right or let it die

WTF?

[besson3c]

I think 10.5 should do away with icons and double clicking too.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

WTF?

Seconded.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I think 10.5 should do away with icons and double clicking too.

I like icons but double clicking yes.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by GnOm

Exposé - has to go
Dashboard - has to die too
Spotlight - do it right or let it die

Well, that would blow my mind all right... but not in a good way...

[GnOm]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

WTF?

The first two are useless gimmicks IMO, Dashboard even more than Exposé.
Spotlight is a nice technique but in some aspects much worse than the old Find function.

cheers.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by GnOm

The first two are useless gimmicks IMO, Dashboard even more than Exposé.
Spotlight is a nice technique but in some aspects much worse than the old Find function.

cheers.

Oh shut it, expose is the best thing to happen to OSX since it shipped.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Oh shut it, expose is the best thing to happen to OSX since it shipped.

Next to the ripple effect

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by GnOm

The first two are useless gimmicks IMO

Not so "useless" considering that I use both of them every day.

I hardly ever do anything with my Mac other than playing games that doesn't involve the use of Exposé at some point along the way.

[Judge_Fire]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I think 10.5 should do away with icons and double clicking too.

Well, double-clicking is just a shortcut - you can still use the real method instead.

J

[- - e r i k - -]

Holy ****. Exposé a gimmick? What planet are you on?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Oh shut it, expose is the best thing to happen to OSX since it shipped.

No kidding. I'd go so far as to say Exposé is the best new feature in any operating system in the past decade.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

No kidding. I'd go so far as to say Exposé is the best new feature in any operating system in the past decade.

Agreed.

Kinda sad actually...

[Horsepoo!!!]

To say Exposé has to go is like saying icons are a stupid way of representing files. People that hate Exposé might as well just go back to using a pen and paper.

[slugslugslug]

If, for some bizarro reason, Exposé were to disappear from Mac OS X, I would actually punch someone. When I'm on a BSD box at work, I'm constantly reaching for the F10/F11 keys, and I tend to only have 7 or 8 windows open at a time there.

But yeah, even if people are weird enough to not want to use Exposé, its existence doesn't impede them in any way, since it can be effectively deactivated by turning off all the triggers.

[teney7]

I love Expose, I dunno what I would ever do without it. After being on my Mac for so long, I find myself trying to use expose in Windows.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by teney7

After being on my Mac for so long, I find myself trying to use expose in Windows.

Same here. It's especially true for me at work since I have a Mac and a Windows box side by side.

[Simon]

Ditto here.

[moodymonster]

when I sit down on windows or exposé-less mac I suddenly don't know what I'm doing because 'swishing' windows out of my way is now instinctive to the way I use the computer.

in short exposé

[mchladek]

In order to waste a couple hours of my day I did a quick and dirty mockup of possible additions to the Finder in Leopard. So, here it is:



Click on the thumbnail for a larger image. OK, I know it's not the most eloquently done. I basically took elements from iPhoto and iTunes and pasted them onto the Finder. This is how it'd work: The "Home" tab in the sidebar would be akin to the "Library" in iPhoto containing all of the user's files (e.g., documents, music, movies, etc.). The "System" tab would provide access to things like app preferences, application support files, etc. (i.e., stuff the basic user wouldn't necessarily have to access and, therefore, could be hidden by default). The other folders in the sidebar would be akin to albums/playlists in iPhoto/iTunes. Users could drag any files from the home folder into them or make smart folders.

The Finder would be primarily driven by metadata with the ability to attach keywords to files similar to what's been discussed above. Column view, then, would be like the navigation in iTunes or on an iPod like discussed above. The mockup I did shows the Finder in icon view to show what I think will be some appearance additions in Leopard. First, the reflection of icon previews like is now present in the Videos tab of iTunes. Image reflections seem to be prevalent on Apple's website and in iWeb so I imagine it will be used more in Leopard. Second, I think the translucent effects/adjust palettes of iPhoto/iWeb will be used throughout the OS. My mockup includes a translucent Get Info pane for example.

[I WAS the One]

Originally Posted by mchladek

In order to waste a couple hours of my day I did a quick and dirty mockup of possible additions to the Finder in Leopard. So, here it is:



Click on the thumbnail for a larger image. OK, I know it's not the most eloquently done. I basically took elements from iPhoto and iTunes and pasted them onto the Finder. This is how it'd work: The "Home" tab in the sidebar would be akin to the "Library" in iPhoto containing all of the user's files (e.g., documents, music, movies, etc.). The "System" tab would provide access to things like app preferences, application support files, etc. (i.e., stuff the basic user wouldn't necessarily have to access and, therefore, could be hidden by default). The other folders in the sidebar would be akin to albums/playlists in iPhoto/iTunes. Users could drag any files from the home folder into them or make smart folders.

The Finder would be primarily driven by metadata with the ability to attach keywords to files similar to what's been discussed above. Column view, then, would be like the navigation in iTunes or on an iPod like discussed above. The mockup I did shows the Finder in icon view to show what I think will be some appearance additions in Leopard. First, the reflection of icon previews like is now present in the Videos tab of iTunes. Image reflections seem to be prevalent on Apple's website and in iWeb so I imagine it will be used more in Leopard. Second, I think the translucent effects/adjust palettes of iPhoto/iWeb will be used throughout the OS. My mockup includes a translucent Get Info pane for example.

nothing happens when I click on the picture link. ????

[Dark Helmet]

So the new UI had better be one of those missing features.

[inkhead]

Today apple demoed leopard, but the new finder was labeled "top secret" so they aren't showing the finder. The guy at wwdc told me that they literally put mostly tiger's finder in this version of Leopard Preview until Steve is ready to put the leopard finder in. Apparently it's just an app they can switch out, but want to keep it completely secret until it's too late for MS to copy the ideas.