[hyteckit]

For whatever reason, some people here think it's a battle between Sony and Microsoft, Xbox 360 vs. PS3.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

For whatever reason, some people here think it's a battle between Sony and Microsoft, Xbox 360 vs. PS3.

Maybe that's because the PS3 is a blu-ray player and MSFT sold an HD DVD add-on and had a guy called Amir (former VP or HD DVD section inside MSFT) on AVS touting HD DVD and spreading FUD about BD 50 yield rates.

[mrtew]

What are you talking about when you say that you ITMS song purchases are only good on an iPod or computer??? You can burn them on a CD and play them on any device that plays them such as a car or walkman or stereo etc. I can't even think of a device that you CAN'T use to play them except maybe an 8-track player or a Zune :-]

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Did Managed copy ever see the light of day? Was it Mac compatible? I don't recall you answering my questions. Does it really exist or was it all talk and is it MSFT specific? HD DVD and Blu-ray both use ACSS encryption and Blu-ray was in the design phase "before" AOD even existed let alone when it was renamed to HD DVD and Toshiba decided to switch to blue-violet lasers like Blu-ray was using.

I think you're missing the point. Competition between Bluray and HD-DVD was what would have ensured that managed copy saw the light of day.

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Prove to me that it was not vaporware and that it was not tied to the MSFT OS and ecosystem. Give us some links.

Again, you're not understanding. The point of managed copy was so that one format could claim it was more consumer friendly than the other. With the competition gone, there is no more reason for managed copy.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if HD-DVD finishes managed copy in one last attempt to hold off Bluray.

[TETENAL]

goMac, you were sold an empty promise.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I think you're missing the point. Competition between Bluray and HD-DVD was what would have ensured that managed copy saw the light of day.



Again, you're not understanding. The point of managed copy was so that one format could claim it was more consumer friendly than the other. With the competition gone, there is no more reason for managed copy.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if HD-DVD finishes managed copy in one last attempt to hold off Bluray.

But if it is limited to windows only and at the discretion of MSFT, how is that consumer friendly? You might notice that the windows only WMA stores never took off while iTMS did.

[Eug]

I figured as much, but now we have confirmation...

Blu-ray: Early adopters knew what they were getting into

Representatives at the Blu-ray booth at CES told BetaNews that the PlayStation 3 is currently the only player they would recommend, due to upcoming changes to the platform. But Pioneer, Samsung, Panasonic and Sony have all been selling standalone Blu-ray players to customers.

When BetaNews asked developers of BD Live whether they were concerned about a backlash from early adopters who supported the format from the beginning, we were told: "They knew what they were getting into."

When BetaNews asked why these manufacturers rushed out players that were not fully capable and potentially buggy due to their BD-J implementation, the Blu-ray partner pointed blame across the room to HD DVD. "We should have waited another year to introduce Blu-ray to the public, but the format war changed the situation," he said. HD DVD was already coming and the BDA had no choice but to launch Blu-ray.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

goMac, you were sold an empty promise.

I didn't buy anything, so I wasn't sold any promises. Seriously, I haven't bought an HD-DVD player yet because there is no managed copy. And honestly, if they added managed copy, I would still buy an HD-DVD drive.

Originally Posted by aristotles 

But if it is limited to windows only and at the discretion of MSFT, how is that consumer friendly? You might notice that the windows only WMA stores never took off while iTMS did.

Managed copy wasn't at the discretion of MSFT and was not limited to Windows only. Managed copy is actually at the discretion of each studio.

Managed copy isn't based on any Microsoft technology at all.

[jokell82]

Even more rumors, although these come from Bill Hunt so take them with a salt mine:
Sources say Universal and Paramount are both going Blu - Engadget

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Yeeeehaaaaw!

Petition to keep HD DVD alive appears online - Engadget HD

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Yeeeehaaaaw!

Petition to keep HD DVD alive appears online - Engadget HD

Heh. Lame.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

In all seriousness has an online petition ever worked for anything?

[icruise]

When an online petition appears, that's usually the death knell for any cause. But seriously, what do these guys think they're going to accomplish with something like this?

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

For any PS3 owners that want to stream content from their Mac...
Nullriver Software ~ Media Link PS3

That's is so freaking SWEET! It's almost like a free AppleTV! This PS3 is the best purchase I ever made and anyone that reads this whole thread knows that I was never a Sony or Blu-ray fan-boy until I bought it last month but I sure am now! It's just one cool surprise after another!

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by icruise 

When an online petition appears, that's usually the death knell for any cause. But seriously, what do these guys think they're going to accomplish with something like this?

Salvage their investment in their $99 stand alone player?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

That's is so freaking SWEET! It's almost like a free AppleTV! This PS3 is the best purchase I ever made and anyone that reads this whole thread knows that I was never a Sony or Blu-ray fan-boy until I bought it last month but I sure am now! It's just one cool surprise after another!

They also have it for the 360 if anyone is interested.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Salvage their investment in their $99 stand alone player?

Well duh. But I mean, do they really think some studio execs are going to read an online petition and change their mind about this?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Well duh. But I mean, do they really think some studio execs are going to read an online petition and change their mind about this?

The sad truth is that they probably do.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Ok, this is unrelated, but does the PS3 upscale DVD's?

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Yes and extremely well.

Originally Posted by Eug 

The PS3 is reasonably good at DVD upscaling, but it's definitely not top tier.

OK, here we go. This test is a little old now. It would be interesting to see how well the A2 and A3, and the latest PS3 firmware fare. However, most of the recent reviews still have the A2 being better than the PS3 for upscaling... but the XA2 is noticeably superior. It should also be noted that these tests are not the final say of how good a player is. (A perfect score doesn't mean a perfect player.)

1. Toshiba HD-XA2 - 130 (out of a possible 130)
2. Toshiba HD-A1 - 116
3. PS3 with 1.8 Update - 91

Here are the details (average of 3 different viewers):

>Toshiba HD-XA2 with 1.6 Firmware
Color Bar/Vertical Detail - Pass – 10 of 10
Jaggies Pattern 1 - Pass – 5 of 5
Jaggies Pattern 2 - Pass – 5 of 5
Flag - Pass – 10 of 10
Picture Detail - Pass – 10 of 10
Noise Reduction - Pass – 10 of 10
Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction - Pass – 10 of 10
3:2 Detection - Pass – 10 of 10
Film Cadence - Pass – Combined 40 of 40
Mixed 3:2 Film, Horizontal Text Crawl - Pass – 10 of 10
Mixed 3:2 Film, Vertical Text Crawl - Pass – 10 of 10
Total Score - 130 out of a possible 130

>Toshiba HD-A1 with 2.2 Firmware
Color Bar/Vertical Detail - Pass – 10 of 10
Jaggies Pattern 1 - Pass – 3 of 5
Jaggies Pattern 2 - Pass – 3 of 5
Flag - Pass – 5 of 10
Picture Detail - Pass – 10 of 10
Noise Reduction - Pass – 10 of 10
Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction - Pass – 10 of 10
3:2 Detection - Pass – 10 of 10
Film Cadence - Pass – Combined 40 of 40
Mixed 3:2 Film, Horizontal Text Crawl - Pass – 5 of 10
Mixed 3:2 Film, Vertical Text Crawl - Pass – 10 of 10
Total Score - 116 out of a possible 130

>PS3 with 1.8 Update
Color Bar/Vertical Detail - Pass – 10 of 10
Jaggies Pattern 1 - Pass – 3 of 5
Jaggies Pattern 2 - Pass – 3 of 5
Flag - Pass – 5 of 10
Picture Detail - Pass – 5 of 10
Noise Reduction - Pass – 5 of 10
Motion Adaptive Noise Reduction - Pass – 5 of 10
3:2 Detection - Pass – 10 of 10
Film Cadence - Pass – Combined 30 of 40
Mixed 3:2 Film, Horizontal Text Crawl - Pass – 5 of 10
Mixed 3:2 Film, Vertical Text Crawl - Pass – 10 of 10
Total Score - 91 out of a possible 130

We tried my friend's PS3 which still had the 1.7 Software and the total HQV benchmark score was a measly 38 (average) and failed most of the tests. So overall, a very good effort from Sony.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Maybe that's because the PS3 is a blu-ray player and MSFT sold an HD DVD add-on and had a guy called Amir (former VP or HD DVD section inside MSFT) on AVS touting HD DVD and spreading FUD about BD 50 yield rates.

Because it's more between Sony and Toshiba rather than between Sony and Microsoft.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Well duh. But I mean, do they really think some studio execs are going to read an online petition and change their mind about this?

I was being sarcastic anyway as they should be happy the player was so cheap. Shame the disks is where the real cost comes in.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

They're not incompatible positions. It may very well make good business sense to keep one money loser while getting rid of another. Sony's Playstation and SCEA are money makers (or potential money makers) for Sony and has long been part of their core business. The Playstation 3 is a loss leader that, in large part, won the format war for Sony and is steadily increasing their presence in the next-gen game console market, and, as noted above, it's unlikely to be a "loss" for very much longer. The manufacture of chips, on the other hand, may not naturally "fit" with Sony's business, which is typically associated with music, movies, games and consumer electronics. In the long term (or even not so long term), Sony's gaming division is more likely to generate profits than a substantial investment in microprocessors that they'll be able to take advantage of whether or not they own the facilities that make them.

Core business? Whatever is profitable becomes a company's core business. Whatever is a costing the company tons of money will no longer be a company's core business. No company is going to let one division to take down the whole company.

iPod and iTunes is successful, so it's now Apple's core business. The iPhone looks like it'll just be as successful, the cell phones will soon be Apple's core business. The Apple Newton was a failure, so PDA is not an Apple core business.

Look at Sega and Atari. Game systems use to be their core business. Guess what happened? They lost lots of money in their game system division, so they killed it off. For Atari, it was the Atari Jaguar; for Sega, it was the Sega Dreamcast. For both company's the only division left is their game development division.

Economies of scale and technological advances will eventually lower the cost of the PS3. But saying that economies of scale and technological advances will guarantee that the PS3 is a success and will guaranteed Sony profitability on in PS3 division is just ludicrous. Most game systems are loss leaders and try to make up the loss in game sales. However, there is no guarantee that they will.

Economies of scale, technological advances, loss leader and making it back in games applies to most games systems. Dreamcast lost money, Atari Jaguar lost money, Xbox lost money, Xbox 360 lost money. What makes you think PS3 is going to make money?

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Core business? Whatever is profitable becomes a company's core business. Whatever is a costing the company tons of money will no longer be a company's core business. No company is going to let one division to take down the whole company.

A bit unsophisticated. A unit may be profitable but still not fit in a company's overall business and a company may stand to gain (above mere profits) by just selling the unit for a lump sum and may still derive benefits post-sale as needed. And just because a unit loses a company money does not mean the company will cut that business immediately, especially if the loss can be counterbalanced by other goals or if there is a likely prospect that the unit may turn the corner to profitability soon. Sony's game division taking a big hit certainly helped swing the format war in its favor. Even Warner Home Entertainment's president noted they could not ignore the PS3 numbers out there. So, in terms of whether Sony's gaming division is taking down the whole company -- debatable. Take a short term ~$800M loss in order to win a format war that could reap Blu-ray royalties for the next 10 years? ... hm.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Economies of scale and technological advances will eventually lower the cost of the PS3. But saying that economies of scale and technological advances will guarantee that the PS3 is a success and will guaranteed Sony profitability on in PS3 division is just ludicrous. Most game systems are loss leaders and try to make up the loss in game sales. However, there is no guarantee that they will.

Economies of scale, technological advances, loss leader and making it back in games applies to most games systems. Dreamcast lost money, Atari Jaguar lost money, Xbox lost money, Xbox 360 lost money. What makes you think PS3 is going to make money?

I never said technological advances or economies of scale will guarantee the PS3's success. Don't twist my words. A product is still subject to marketplace particulars and consumer choice, which have shown to be increasingly receptive to the PS3 given the right price point and better title selection. Sales are up and both game and Blu-ray titles are expanding. You, however, were certain that the PS3 was on an unsustainable sales model because it posted losses so early in its life cycle, which I pointed out was the very same model every other company in the game console industry follows. Even you realize that some products lose money and fall flat, others eventually recoup their losses and turn profitable per unit for their manufacturer. I doubt even you'd suggest that every single console you listed is continuing to lose money and not turn profits for their respective companies. But yet you seemed convinced that a huge loss in one quarter (or even one FY) meant the PS3 spelled doom for Sony as a whole. Tell you what, if the PS3 is still around in 5 years, eat crow, okay?

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

A bit unsophisticated. A unit may be profitable but still not fit in a company's overall business and a company may stand to gain (above mere profits) by just selling the unit for a lump sum and may still derive benefits post-sale as needed. And just because a unit loses a company money does not mean the company will cut that business immediately, especially if the loss can be counterbalanced by other goals or if there is a likely prospect that the unit may turn the corner to profitability soon. Sony's game division taking a big hit certainly helped swing the format war in its favor. Even Warner Home Entertainment's president noted they could not ignore the PS3 numbers out there. So, in terms of whether Sony's gaming division is taking down the whole company -- debatable. Take a short term ~$800M loss in order to win a format war that could reap Blu-ray royalties for the next 10 years? ... hm.

I never said technological advances or economies of scale will guarantee the PS3's success. Don't twist my words. A product is still subject to marketplace particulars and consumer choice, which have shown to be increasingly receptive to the PS3 given the right price point and better title selection. Sales are up and both game and Blu-ray titles are expanding. You, however, were certain that the PS3 was on an unsustainable sales model because it posted losses so early in its life cycle, which I pointed out was the very same model every other company in the game console industry follows. Even you realize that some products lose money and fall flat, others eventually recoup their losses and turn profitable per unit for their manufacturer. I doubt even you'd suggest that every single console you listed is continuing to lose money and not turn profits for their respective companies. But yet you seemed convinced that a huge loss in one quarter meant the PS3 spelled doom for Sony as a whole. Tell you what, if the PS3 is still around in 5 years, eat crow, okay?

Don't put words in my mouth.

When did I say PS3 spells doom for Sony? When did I say PS3 will never make any money?

I said Sony fanboys are ridiculous in assuming PS3 and Bluray will be a success because PS3 cost will drop due to economies of scale and technological advances, and they will make it up due to software sales and bluray sales.

I said there is no guarantee that PS3 or Bluray will be a success; Not that it won't.

So you are agreeing with me that there is no guarantee that PS3 or Bluray will be a success?

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Don't put words in my mouth.

When did I say PS3 spells doom for Sony? When did I say PS3 will never make any money?

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

It you are losing $800 million per quarter, can [Sony] really last 5 years? How many billions of dollars can Sony lose a year?

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Sony is losing sh*tloads of money of the PS3. Sony is lost over 800 million dollars the previous quarter on the PS3 division having to sell the PS3 at a huge lost. Sony needs to be profitable on the PS3 division soon or it'll be in serious trouble.

If everyone is just buying PS3 as a Bluray player, Sony is in deep sh*t. The more people buy PS3, the more money Sony losses. The attachment rate for Bluray movies to PS3 is about 1. Hardly enough to cover the loss of $200 to $300 per PS3 sold.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I said Sony fanboys are ridiculous in assuming PS3 and Bluray will be a success because PS3 cost will drop due to economies of scale and technological advances, and they will make it up due to software sales and bluray sales.

Again, you're misunderstanding the argument about economies of scale. The argument isn't that economies of scale --> lower costs = success for the PS3 or Blu-ray. (Although, lower costs do seem to have spurred increased sales of the PS3.) Merely, economies of scale will reduce the cost of manufacturing the PS3 and therefore, contrary to what you might think, Sony's loss on each PS3 is not fixed but rather will drop as scale kicks in and tend towards profitability.

Your argument that suggests Sony will continue to take a huge hit on each PS3 sold seems to ignore economic realities and believes that the losses will remain fixed at $200-300 per unit for the entire life of the product. You assume Sony's gaming division will continue to mount huge losses per quarter, when you note that those losses are largely attributed to Sony selling the PS3 for less than what it cost them to manufacture it. Your understanding of the business is seriously flawed if you think that the disparity between manufacture price and retail price will never close or that each unit will not become profitable in time.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I said there is no guarantee that PS3 or Bluray will be a success; Not that it won't.

Of course there isn't, but that isn't saying much. Regardless, the outlook is looking a lot better than last year, or even last week.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Hickey and Pachter talk Blu-ray and PS3 - PS3 Fanboy

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Again, you're misunderstanding the argument about economies of scale. The argument isn't that economies of scale --> lower costs = success for the PS3 or Blu-ray. (Although, lower costs do seem to have spurred increased sales of the PS3.) Merely, economies of scale will reduce the cost of manufacturing the PS3 and therefore, contrary to what you might think, Sony's loss on each PS3 is not fixed but rather will drop as scale kicks in and tend towards profitability.

It's not nearly that simple. Sony's competition will drop in price due to their decreased manufacturing costs, and they will in turn lower their prices. This is especially true of Nintendo, who is making a larger profit than Microsoft (who has also started turning a profit). Sony, in turn, will be forced to lower their prices, keeping the PS3 potentially from making a profit.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

It's not nearly that simple. Sony's competition will drop in price due to their decreased manufacturing costs, and they will in turn lower their prices. This is especially true of Nintendo, who is making a larger profit than Microsoft (who has also started turning a profit). Sony, in turn, will be forced to lower their prices, keeping the PS3 potentially from making a profit.

Think about how much it costs sony to make a PS2 when it first came out compared to today where they are still selling like hotcakes.

Sony is going to make a lot off the PS3 in a couple years and it is here for a long time.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Think about how much it costs sony to make a PS2 when it first came out compared to today where they are still selling like hotcakes.

Sony is going to make a lot off the PS3 in a couple years and it is here for a long time.

I think the point is that many people think the PS3 won't be nearly as successful as the PS2.

Yeah, Sony got a big shot in the arm with Warner's decision, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly going to win the console war.

Remember, one HUGE advantage Sony had with the PS2 is that it came out long before both the Xbox and the GameCube. This time around, the Xbox 360 had a large headstart, which helped it immensely against the PS3. However, the much lower priced Wii is still a much better seller.

P.S. I just managed to get a hold of a Wii... but not for myself. It's sold out everywhere, but I found one locally, and sent it out to Vancouver for a friend's dad.

[exca1ibur]

Universal HD DVD exclusivity contract has expired, sits non-renewed - Engadget

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Think about how much it costs sony to make a PS2 when it first came out compared to today where they are still selling like hotcakes.

I don't think Sony was losing as much money on the PS2 as they are on the PS3. It's a bigger gap that they have to close.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Agreed, DVD wasn't as cutting edge technology back then.

[Eug]

Also, the PS2 was $299 at launch, which helped its adoption immensely.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Well, I think that's partly due to the drive being cheaper technology to produce at that point.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

Well, I think that's partly due to the drive being cheaper technology to produce at that point.

Yes. It was a cheaper unit, since DVD was already established. It also launched long before the competition.

In contrast, the PS3 is a more expensive unit than the competition, and launched later, and not surprisingly is now in last place overall.

The PS3 has definitely helped Blu-ray's cause immensely, but Blu-ray has meant a lot of compromises for the launch of the PS3. For someone to assume that the PS3 will replicate the PS2's success is naive. It's always possible, but I personally think it's unlikely that the PS3 will do anywhere near as well, even in the long run.

[Dakar the Fourth]

I thought that was obvious as soon as the price was announced. Previous marketshare, brand loyalty, the blu-ray drive being a 'steal' or not, its just never seemed like a viable price-point for general consumers. The jump in sales since the price drop seems to have bore that out.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I thought that was obvious as soon as the price was announced. Previous marketshare, brand loyalty, the blu-ray drive being a 'steal' or not, its just never seemed like a viable price-point for general consumers. The jump in sales since the price drop seems to have bore that out.

I think it was a combination of the price, and that Sony was rapidly cutting features and increasing the case size of the unit. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence in Sony's engineering skills.

[exca1ibur]

People looking at the PS2 now and compared to the PS3 at this point is now, is pretty stupid as well. One product is trying to grow, and one is established. Everyone else seems to be looking at this as a short term business model, but Sony. Common sense would have told people the PS3 wasn't going to fly off the shelf at $599.

For having such a muffed up launch, I'm pretty impressed with where they are today to be honest. I didn't expect any momentum for them till about the middle of 2008.

[Eug]

? The design of the PS3 seems solid. I don't like some of their choices (like no IR support), but in terms of actual engineering the PS3 seems good.

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

People looking at the PS2 now and compared to the PS3 at this point is now, is pretty stupid as well. One product is trying to grow, and one is established. Everyone else seems to be looking at this as a short term business model, but Sony. Common sense would have told people the PS3 wasn't going to fly off the shelf at $599.

For having such a muffed up launch, I'm pretty impressed with where they are today to be honest. I didn't expect any momentum for them till about the middle of 2008.

Except the PS2 was never in the same predicament. The PS2 was a success from the getgo.

Most people thought the PS3 would do much better once it got a few games and dropped in price. That's exactly what happened. Fortunately for Blu-ray, it was enough to keep its advantage over HD DVD.

[ort888]

I think Sony honestly thought the PS3 would dominate at $599.

I think two generations of complete and total domination made them overconfident.

The exact same thing happened to Nintendo with the N64.



The lessons we've learned so far in the brief history of video games is that brand names means less then you think and that things can and will change.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

? The design of the PS3 seems solid. I don't like some of their choices (like no IR support), but in terms of actual engineering the PS3 seems good.

The unit itself seems solid, but it runs very hot. I know someone who had to open the door to his entertainment cabinet while he'd play DVD's on his PS3. Otherwise the PS3's fans would spin up to vacuum noise levels. I mean, the PS3 doesn't red ring like the XBox 360, but it still seems like there were some oversights in engineering.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I think Sony honestly thought the PS3 would dominate at $599.

I think two generations of complete and total domination made them overconfident.

The exact same thing happened to Nintendo with the N64.

Yep, I was making that comparison early on.

Originally Posted by goMac 

The unit itself seems solid, but it runs very hot. I know someone who had to open the door to his entertainment cabinet while he'd play DVD's on his PS3. Otherwise the PS3's fans would spin up to vacuum noise levels. I mean, the PS3 doesn't red ring like the XBox 360, but it still seems like there were some oversights in engineering.

Yeah, I'm really loving how this latest generation is louder than the last one. And it was louder than the one before that (In Sony's case).

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The unit itself seems solid, but it runs very hot. I know someone who had to open the door to his entertainment cabinet while he'd play DVD's on his PS3. Otherwise the PS3's fans would spin up to vacuum noise levels. I mean, the PS3 doesn't red ring like the XBox 360, but it still seems like there were some oversights in engineering.

I think that's just as much a testament to IBM's engineering than Sony's per se.

The Xbox 360 runs just as hot. Not surprising, cuz it uses a chip based on a similar heritage. The plus for the PS3 though is that it doesn't red ring. (Note: My 360 is still going strong.)

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The unit itself seems solid, but it runs very hot. I know someone who had to open the door to his entertainment cabinet while he'd play DVD's on his PS3. Otherwise the PS3's fans would spin up to vacuum noise levels. I mean, the PS3 doesn't red ring like the XBox 360, but it still seems like there were some oversights in engineering.

ANY piece of electronic equipment kept in a closed cabinet will get hot, the PS3 is not exception. I keep my PS3 on an open shelf and have NEVER had the fans turn on.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The Xbox 360 runs just as hot. Not surprising, cuz it uses a chip based on a similar heritage. The plus for the PS3 though is that it doesn't red ring.

The 360 seems to be a different beast though. It's always running a little loud, but it always seems to stay at the same noise level. The PS3 starts very quiet, but gets all the way up to a dull roar.

My friend kept a 360 in the same cabinet and never had any issue with it. Recently he's moved the PS3 into an open backed cabinet but I don't think he's tried a DVD on it yet. The PS3 actually put out so much heat before that it heated the whole cabinet and fried his Tivo Series 3.

[hyteckit]

From what I've read, the PS3 division is losing more money, not losing less.

When the PS3 was selling for $599, it was losing $200 to $300 per unit.

When the PS3 was selling for $399, it was losing $200 to $300 per unit.

The PS3 division had a loss of over $800 million for the 3rd quarter, up from the $500 million loss for the 2nd quarter.

Still doesn't change the argument that if the PS3 division doesn't become profitable soon, it'll be in big trouble.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

ANY piece of electronic equipment kept in a closed cabinet will get hot, the PS3 is not exception. I keep my PS3 on an open shelf and have NEVER had the fans turn on.

My PVR (playing music channels) is fine in a closed closet.
My standalone HD DVD player (playing CDs) is fine in a closed closet.

My 360 is not.

Originally Posted by goMac 

The 360 seems to be a different beast though. It's always running a little loud, but it always seems to stay at the same noise level. The PS3 starts very quiet, but gets all the way up to a dull roar.

My friend kept a 360 in the same cabinet and never had any issue with it. Recently he's moved the PS3 into an open backed cabinet but I don't think he's tried a DVD on it yet. The PS3 actually put out so much heat before that it heated the whole cabinet and fried his Tivo Series 3.

My 360 starts out moderate, and gets loud, even when sitting on an open shelf.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

My 360 starts out moderate, and gets loud, even when sitting on an open shelf.

I don't know. I never notice any real big noise coming from it. The big problem for me is the heat. Usually XBox + LCD tv = open a window even in winter.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Eug 

My PVR (playing music channels) is fine in a closed closet.
My standalone HD DVD player (playing CDs) is fine in a closed closet.

My 360 is not.



My 360 starts out moderate, and gets loud, even when sitting on an open shelf.

Your PVR and standalone do FAR less and draw less power.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

When the PS3 was selling for $599, it was losing $200 to $300 per unit.

When the PS3 was selling for $399, it was losing $200 to $300 per unit.

Source?