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Parky · Sep 5, 2007, 12:20 PM

I recently ordered an iPhoto book from Apple.

Total cost £50.85 ($100) including :-

Cost of book - £37.79 ($75)
Shipping - £5.49 ($11)
TAX - £7.57 ($15)

When the package arrived there is a customs sticker on the front (as the book shipped from Germany) that states the contents Photos, Printed Matter - Value is $18.99.
The sticker has been stamped as 'Primary Customs Cleared' by the Royal Mail.

Now something does not look right here.
The actually value of the contents (i.e. what I paid for it) is $75 NOT $18.99.

What is the reason for the difference? Could it be that Apple are cheating UK Customs by not declaring the real value of the contents? If they stated the real value we would be liable for VAT and Import Duty. Does this mean I am cheating UK Customs.

Either way, this is not right!!

Ian

CatOne · Sep 5, 2007, 12:42 PM

Hopefully you'll end up in the slammer for tax evasion.

Parky · Sep 5, 2007, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

Hopefully you'll end up in the slammer for tax evasion.

Was there any reason to be offensive?

It seems like a perfectly reasonable topic to discuss!

richwig83 · Sep 5, 2007, 01:03 PM

Something naughty is going on there but you would not be liable for anything!!!!!. 18.99 might be the actual value of the book (materials/printing cost etc), but i suppose the book has to be processed by apple which is maybe where they make the difference is... not forgeting their profit.

Just a guess

Parky · Sep 5, 2007, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by richwig83

Something naughty is going on there but you would not be liable for anything!!!!!. 18.99 might be the actual value of the book (materials/printing cost etc), but i suppose the book has to be processed by apple which is maybe where they make the difference is... not forgeting their profit.

Just a guess

Actually the customs value that should be declared is the amount that was paid for the item, it should have been declared as $75.

Ian

TETENAL · Sep 5, 2007, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Parky

If they stated the real value we would be liable for VAT and Import Duty.

You did pay VAT already, didn't you? And I don't think you have to pay customs duty at all for goods shipping within the EU. So they can not cheat the UK Customs no matter what price they declare. But if you think something is wrong bring it to your nearest customs office and ask them.

richwig83 · Sep 5, 2007, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Parky

Actually the customs value that should be declared is the amount that was paid for the item, it should have been declared as $75.

Ian

OK didnt realise that. In that case something isnt quiet right!!!! Id ring apple

(glad to see someone elsefrom manchester on here)

SpencerLavery · Sep 5, 2007, 04:09 PM

I must admit I've never heard of somebody who's upset about NOT having to pay taxes.

I'm still sore from my (apparently) US Postal Service parcel today being delivery by ParcelForce with their £8 tax-handling charge ON TOP of the import tax. Sneaky ****ers only get away with it because they threaten to send your parcel back if you don't pay it. I fail to see how printing me a customs invoice could cost them anywhere near to £8 on top of the money they are making from the delivery.

philm · Sep 5, 2007, 05:07 PM

You won't pay any duty within Europe.

SpencerLavery · Sep 5, 2007, 06:39 PM

philm's right, EU (not technically Europe, but pretty much) countries don't pay any duty for imports/exports.

Also, the 'Primary Customs Cleared' sticker doesn't solely refer to duty/tax, Customs spend just as much time checking packages to ensure that they're safe/legal. Don't assume just because it's got a sticker on it that it denotes duty to be paid.

I'm still completely perplexed as to why the OP is worried about this though. Who on earth wants to call up Apple because they're worried that they didn't pay enough tax? If I was on the receiving end of that phonecall I'm not sure I could contain my laughter. If taxes were a little more moral perhaps I'd feel differently.

Strix · Sep 6, 2007, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by SpencerLavery

I must admit I've never heard of somebody who's upset about NOT having to pay taxes.

I'm still sore from my (apparently) US Postal Service parcel today being delivery by ParcelForce with their £8 tax-handling charge ON TOP of the import tax. Sneaky ****ers only get away with it because they threaten to send your parcel back if you don't pay it. I fail to see how printing me a customs invoice could cost them anywhere near to £8 on top of the money they are making from the delivery.

Some courier companies will charge you a tax/duty handling charge because they have paid the duty to customs on their deferment account for you on your behalf. The £8 therefore covers the admin charge for doing this plus a little extra on top.

By the time it comes to delivering the parcel, it has already cleared customs, however the courier will want his money back before handing it over to you

SpencerLavery · Sep 6, 2007, 06:23 AM

Yes, but I specifically chose for the item to be delivered by USPS (and hence, Royal Mail) in order to avoid those charges. Quite why ParcelForce delivered it I'll never know. They seem to have taken over parcel operations for Royal Mail, which would be a crying shame. This country is falling apart.

philm · Sep 6, 2007, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by SpencerLavery

Yes, but I specifically chose for the item to be delivered by USPS (and hence, Royal Mail) in order to avoid those charges. Quite why ParcelForce delivered it I'll never know. They seem to have taken over parcel operations for Royal Mail, which would be a crying shame. This country is falling apart.

Hmm. A slight over-reaction there mate. Perhaps read less of the Daily Mail.

Koralatov · Sep 6, 2007, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Parky

What is the reason for the difference? Could it be that Apple are cheating UK Customs by not declaring the real value of the contents? If they stated the real value we would be liable for VAT and Import Duty. Does this mean I am cheating UK Customs.

Either way, this is not right!!

Technically, you aren't cheating UK customs, as it wasn't you that misinformed them of the value of the goods. However, I think you would be really stupid to kick up a fuss about it; you saved money. What's not to like?

mpancha · Sep 7, 2007, 09:09 AM

There are still a few who believe in paying their taxes instead of wheasling out of it. Customs are there for a reason, may not agree with them 100%, but they are there for a reason.

Once you've paid what you should pay, you have every right to complain about what is right and wrong wtih the system. If you don't, then you're as big a crook as the gov't.

at least... that's my two cents (duty free)

TETENAL · Sep 7, 2007, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by mpancha

There are still a few who believe in paying their taxes instead of wheasling out of it. Customs are there for a reason, may not agree with them 100%, but they are there for a reason.

Again, there are no customs within the EU.

Koralatov · Sep 8, 2007, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by mpancha

There are still a few who believe in paying their taxes instead of wheasling out of it. Customs are there for a reason, may not agree with them 100%, but they are there for a reason.

Once you've paid what you should pay, you have every right to complain about what is right and wrong wtih the system. If you don't, then you're as big a crook as the gov't.

at least... that's my two cents (duty free)

Whilst some people do agree with paying their taxes, I’m not one of them. As it stands, I pay ~$150 per month Council tax, and I lose another ~$500 a month to income tax and national insurance. As a result almost a third of my income ends up being swallowed by tax—and that’s before I even pay any living expenses, such as rent or food. Whilst this might be acceptable for those earning quite highly, I don’t earn a lot.

On top of that, food is heavily subsidised in the UK and EU (resulting in it costing approximately twice what it does in the North America), and products generally cost more here than they do elsewhere (case in point: the iPod touch costs ~$140 more over here than in the States). So, call me a ‘weasel’ or a ‘crook’ if you like, but I resent paying extra tax on the occasional luxury I decide to indulge in.

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Again, there are no customs within the EU.

My apologies; I wasn’t aware the iPhoto book was sent from within the EU. However, I still stand by my previous assertions regarding customs taxes.

ghporter · Sep 8, 2007, 08:29 AM

It would seem that perhaps the value declared was the "cost of replacement" rather than the "cost to the consumer." Since the customer did not himself ship the item, it might just be that Apple produced the book and shipped it with a declaration of how much THEY had invested in it, not how much the customer had paid for it.

If this is true, then I'd be concerned about the markup of the product, not that someone's dodging taxes.

SpencerLavery · Sep 8, 2007, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by philm

Hmm. A slight over-reaction there mate. Perhaps read less of the Daily Mail.

Is that the standard retort for any complaint about this country on these forums? It's boring. I probably dislike the Mail more than you. I do however, dislike the state of this country even more than that. You can ignore it if you like, make like a good little statistic.

Koralatov · Sep 9, 2007, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by SpencerLavery

Is that the standard retort for any complaint about this country on these forums? It's boring. I probably dislike the Mail more than you. I do however, dislike the state of this country even more than that. You can ignore it if you like, make like a good little statistic.

For what it's worth, I agree with you on the Parcelforce thing, and the general status of our postal system. I'm only 23, and I can remember when it was much better than it is now. Hell, when I was in school the post arrived at 7am on the dot every morning; now, my parents are lucky if their mail turns up before noon. I'm pretty sure that, objectively, that could be used as a measurement of a declining standard of service.

Personally, I love the Daily Mail. Not as a source of news, of course, but as a source of priceless entertainment. One of my friends in Uni used to read it, and it could always be relied upon to supply me with at least one hysterical over-reaction a day to laugh about. That said, you wouldn't catch me dead paying for it.

SpencerLavery · Sep 9, 2007, 12:50 PM

I couldn't agree more Koralatov, and I'm only 24 myself

Koralatov · Sep 9, 2007, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by SpencerLavery

I couldn't agree more Koralatov, and I'm only 24 myself

I'm pretty sure it must be a bad sign that neither of us is a quarter of a century old and we're already giving it "When I were a lad [insert subject of complaint] were much better than it is now. This country's going to pieces I tell you!" speeches. Isn't that meant to be the preserve of crotchety old men?