[ourisman]

Anyone know of an Mail Client that could be used with the iPod touch?

[Earth Mk. II]

any webmail interface supported by safari.

If you want true mobile communication, get an iPhone.

[Visnaut]

We won't know until early adopters get their hands on the iPod touch, but if its processor is the same or extremely similar to the one on the iPhone, there is a very high likelihood that one can just copy the MobileMail app from the iPhone to the iPod and it would function exactly the same. This would also be illegal, since even if you own an iPhone, you only have a license to use it on one device.

However, given the same similarity in hardware, it won't take long for developers to use the existing toolkit to code and compile an open-source mail app for the iPod.

It will happen, just give it time.

[dindaex]

With no Mail and no local document storage, they've really handicapped the device. I would assume this was done for AT&T.

I like Web 2.0 as much as the next guy, but that's no excuse to bail on core functionality. I can't help but think what a great Newton this could be. Could be.

I hope things come around, and Apple adds these simple but necessary features.

[Earth Mk. II]

"Core functionality"?! It's an iPod. It plays music. You watch video on it. That's the "core functionality" of the device.

The WiFi's just there so you can get the WiFi iTunes Store and give Apple your money on impulse song purchases. $0.99 adds up.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by dindaex 

I like Web 2.0 as much as the next guy, but that's no excuse to bail on core functionality. I can't help but think what a great Newton this could be. Could be.

But it's an iPod. And if you want that sort of connectivity, the iPhone sells for practically the same price. $399 gets you either a very newton-like device plus phone, or an extra 8 gigs of storage. You pick.

But don't worry, within a few months, you'll be seeing developers adding extra functionality to the iPod and make it as capable (software wise) as the iPhone.

[Parky]

Originally Posted by ourisman 

Anyone know of an Mail Client that could be used with the iPod touch?

I will be more than happy to use .Mac webmail.

Can anyone tell me how well it works on the current iPhone?

Ian

[dindaex]

If it is only for listening to music (and maybe watching videos), why have contacts, calendar, and a full-blown web browser? Or CoverFlow and a touch screen, for that matter?

And I know the iPhone is available with a mail client, but it still requires an AT&T contract to work (unless you hack it). And it does not officially support document storage.

It just frustrates me that they have all the pieces, but choose not to put it together. Or they want to be able to trickle features out to continue to add value and get press. Or they are obligated under contract with AT&T.

An iPod touch with e-mail and document storage and management would be an even better product, and I think they could do it without ruining the KISS ideal, since the functions would not interfere.

So, why not do it?

[jamesa]

it's a deal breaker for me. don't understand why the hell they didn't do it - if you're going to give us a browser, give us a damn mail client also!

[Earth Mk. II]

See, this was kinda my argument against the whole "iPhone without the phone" thing. You're right that including WiFi and Safari to the thing just adds confusion.

The only reason I can see for WiFi in the touch is the occasional impulse buy of a track over the wifi iTunes store. (With enough users and time, that could be significant)
The only reason to include Safari, then, is to aid in the access of wifi networks with web-based authentication. I actually believe that SJ's comment on this point was mostly in earnest.

iPods have always had your contacts and calendars available. Also, notes and a stopwatch. None of these things really make sense on a DAP... but there they are.

The touch interface makes sense; it's the UI paradigm du-jour Apple's pushing, and it really does work exceptionally well with the iPhone. I assume no less with the touch.

If you want a mobile communications tool that has an iPod, get the iPhone. If you want a snazzy new iPod that'll let you download songs on a whim, get the iPod:Touch. They're confused, but they do serve different functions.

[JonoMarshall]

Why wouldn't something like this work: e-mol?

[The Placid Casual]

Originally Posted by jamesa 

it's a deal breaker for me. don't understand why the hell they didn't do it - if you're going to give us a browser, give us a damn mail client also!

I feel totally the same way...

[jbleisure]

Originally Posted by jamesa
it's a deal breaker for me. don't understand why the hell they didn't do it - if you're going to give us a browser, give us a damn mail client also!
I feel totally the same way...

Ditto........also input for iCal and addressbook!

[TiDual]

I was prepared to forego mail by using some WebMail solution, but is it true that one can't add/change addresses or calender entries on the Touch?? That might just break the deal for me. I've ordered one, but if it has neither Mail nor full Cal functionality, it's starting to look much less appealing: it means I still need to lug my Dell x50v around with me (which in addition to web, mail, and calendar, actually is an ok video player too ... of course the OS/interface suck ... but it has the functionality that I, and apparently others, require).

Oh, and to those who say "just get the iPhone, 'cause it costs the same", you know you're being misleading. It involves an additional $1440 financial commitment. I hate using phones, and have WiFi access 95% of the time. Some of us want a single PDA/Media Player/Internet access device without the financial commitment of a huge provider contract.

Apple has the ability to provide this (ie give us an iPhone which is *only* missing the phone), and have *chosen* not to. That's their call, and their reasons are relatively obvious (to maintain the appeal of the iPhone). But, please don't insult us with subjective arguments about "what the device is intended for", and what people should or should not want in a device.

[Visnaut]

Fair enough, TiDual. I see your point, and I also wish the iPod touch had the same mail client as the iPhone. You're right in that it's a deliberate omission.

My sentiment still stands though that there is a very high likelihood that you will have both the option to transfer the iPhone's MobileMail app to the iPod (not legal, but highly functional), and/or that the developer community will step up and make a completely open-source mail app for the iPod (legal, but probably not as full featured, at first).

Originally Posted by TiDual 

I was prepared to forego mail by using some WebMail solution, but is it true that one can't add/change addresses or calender entries on the Touch?? That might just break the deal for me.

I have good news and bad news. Judging by the hands-on pictures posted on iLounge...

You can edit contacts! Note the edit button:


But no calendar editing, it seems. Note the absence of the "+" button on the top right:


Again, that is an omission on Apple's part, one that doesn't make much sense if you can edit contacts. But again, you might have the option of transfering the iPhone's calendar app, or wait until there's an open-source or third party solution.

[TiDual]

Thanks for the pointers, Visnaut. Editing Cal is more critical than Addresses for me ... is the absence of the "+" clear evidence (i.e. is there one on the iPhone in the month view)?

I agree, about Mail ... a solution will come along there. I'm less certain about Cal, especially one that still syncs correctly over iTunes, etc. ... unless it is really possible to port the iPhone version somehow.

I'd actually consider an iPhone (depending on the contractual obligations once they come out here in Germany) ... but only 8GB is then a big downside. Sigh.

[mitchell_pgh]

The calendar thing is odd. Perhaps you need to be on "day" mode to input events? If there isn't a calendar where I can add events, the calendar basically becomes useless.

Friend: Hey, what are you doing next Sunday?
Me: "Oh, let me check... <open iPod touch> looks like I'm open"
Friend: "Here's the party info... XYZ"
Me: Hold on... do you have a sheet of paper and a pencil so I can write this down... enter it into my calendar on my computer, so it will synch with my iPod touch..."

BZZZZZZZzzzzzz....

[besson3c]

The reason why you can't edit calendar events is a protocol limitation which should be fixed with Leopard and CalDAV savvy clients. The specific limitation is that you can't edit a calendar which you have subscribed to, and you can't publish to the same calendar from multiple clients or else this data will not stay in sync.

Edit: this should not be a problem with calendars that are not published to a server though.

[stuffedmonkey]

If it isn't there, someone will write a good client within a month I would bet....

What I want to know is can you update your podcasts over wifi...? That would be really helpful for me

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The reason why you can't edit calendar events is a protocol limitation which should be fixed with Leopard and CalDAV savvy clients.

Uh, the iPhone can edit and create events just fine. The discussion here is if the iPod touch can do the same or not.

Originally Posted by stuffedmonkey 

What I want to know is can you update your podcasts over wifi...? That would be really helpful for me

This is one of my top questions as well. It would be great if they implemented this from the start, but I would assume they would add that functionality in later.

It's also worth mentioning that enterprising hackers will probably be able to decompile the headers of the Mobile iTunes app, figure out the function calls, and possibly tie into those in order to code some custom podcast downloader that adds them to the library.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Uh, the iPhone can edit and create events just fine. The discussion here is if the iPod touch can do the same or not.

Events on subscribed calendars that have been published?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Events on subscribed calendars that have been published?

There is ALWAYS a "+" icon at the upper right-hand corner of the iPhone's calendar app.

Its absence on the iPod touch has been taken by the more astute readers of this thread to indicate that there is no way to add new calendar items; hence editing existing ones is probably not possible.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

There is ALWAYS a "+" icon at the upper right-hand corner of the iPhone's calendar app.

Its absence on the iPod touch has been taken by the more astute readers of this thread to indicate that there is no way to add new calendar items; hence editing existing ones is probably not possible.

Okay, but I can tell you without even owning an iPhone or new iPod that it is not possible to write to the same published calendar from multiple clients and have these changes sent up to the calendar server. This is a protocol limitation, not an Apple decision or an iPhone interface issue.

It is possible that the client on the iPhone is a CalDAV supported client and that the iCal server running on .Mac is the new iCal Server, but I doubt it, as how would iCal on your Mac know what to do with changes you've made to your published calendar from your iPhone?

The other possibility is that the iPhone does not communicate with the iCal server from the client, but simply syncs with your Mac and has your Mac manage syncing with the calendar server, but this seems like it would add confusion into the mix.

Therefore, I wouldn't mind clarification that iPhone owners have been able to:

1) Publish a calendar to a WebDAV server or .Mac from their Mac

2) Subscribe to this calendar on their iPhone, (or else simply write to the same calendar file copied from their Mac)

3) Make changes to the calendar from their Mac

4) Make changes to the calendar from their iPhone (do not sync again with the Mac)

5) Subscribe to the calendar from another machine and see changes made from both Mac and iPhone within the calendar

[analogika]

As you obviously haven't read up on, nor actually used an iPhone:


Any calendars synced with the iPhone are fused into ONE calendar on the phone.

Any new items added on the iPhone are synced into a single calendar of your choosing on the Mac.

The iPhone does not sync through ANYTHING other than iTunes, and does not sync to ANYTHING other than the application sync services supported by iTunes.

Any iCal syncing to subscribed calendars is handled by iCal itself, and does not concern the iPhone.

This, btw, is how contact and calendar sync has worked with all phones ever since Apple introduced it with iSync way back when.

[Eug]

If the iPod touch doesn't support calendar entry then I'm not buying one. Having no Mail and Google Maps support is bad enough, but no calendar entry functionality would be the deal killer.

I'm not interested in the iPhone so much either, because 8 GB is too anemic for a media player, and I'm in Canada anyway.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

As you obviously haven't read up on, nor actually used an iPhone:

I haven't, but I've read enough about WebDAV and CalDAV to know what sorts of limitations they have.

Any calendars synced with the iPhone are fused into ONE calendar on the phone.

Any new items added on the iPhone are synced into a single calendar of your choosing on the Mac.

The iPhone does not sync through ANYTHING other than iTunes, and does not sync to ANYTHING other than the application sync services supported by iTunes.

Any iCal syncing to subscribed calendars is handled by iCal itself, and does not concern the iPhone.

This, btw, is how contact and calendar sync has worked with all phones ever since Apple introduced it with iSync way back when.

Okay, so the calendaring mechanism is pretty mickey mouse, based on what you are describing. New events are not pulled down into the calendar until next iTunes sync, and changes made on the iPhone are not published until next iTunes sync. The fusing into a single calendar means that one cannot really use the calendar for both business and personal stuff without mixing things together.

Apple will need to figure out what they intend to do here if they really want to impress business people wanting to use their iPhones with their Groupware environment.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Okay, but I can tell you without even owning an iPhone or new iPod that it is not possible to write to the same published calendar from multiple clients and have these changes sent up to the calendar server. This is a protocol limitation, not an Apple decision or an iPhone interface issue.

Okay, thanks. Except that isn't what anyone was asking about. The more prevalent topic was about whether you can create new calendar events on the iPod touch. Period. That's it.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Apple will need to figure out what they intend to do here if they really want to impress business people wanting to use their iPhones with their Groupware environment.

Well thank goodness you've already answered that:

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The reason why you can't edit calendar events is a protocol limitation which should be fixed with Leopard and CalDAV savvy clients.

And honestly, let's not kid ourselves, if they really care about business people in groupware environments, what they really need to do is add Exchange support.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Visnaut 

Okay, thanks. Except that isn't what anyone was asking about. The more prevalent topic was about whether you can create new calendar events on the iPod touch. Period. That's it.

I know, and I brought this up before it was clarified that under no circumstances can you create new entries. I figured maybe the limitation was noticed with published calendars.

And honestly, let's not kid ourselves, if they really care about business people in groupware environments, what they really need to do is add Exchange support.

Yeah, but I'm not really clear about whether one could license ActiveSync for such a purpose, or whether Apple would have to come up with reverse engineered stuff. Reverse engineered stuff is difficult to support and likely to break between releases. An API for supporting Exchange would be better, but it's really up to Microsoft, not Apple to provide such a thing.

[Homer1946]

According to the iPod Touch page on the Apple web site...

"And iPod touch features a touchscreen QWERTY keyboard perfect for browsing the web in Safari, searching for videos on YouTube, finding music on the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, entering calendar events, or adding new contacts."

That seems pretty clear that one can edit the calendar and the address book.

[mitchell_pgh]

besson3c,

So how can I enter new events on my cell and have them updated via iSync to iCal?

Homer1946,

NICE FINE!!! wOOt

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Homer1946 

According to the iPod Touch page on the Apple web site...

"And iPod touch features a touchscreen QWERTY keyboard perfect for browsing the web in Safari, searching for videos on YouTube, finding music on the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, entering calendar events, or adding new contacts."

That seems pretty clear that one can edit the calendar and the address book.

Yep. It's on the Multitouch page, and here is the full blurb:

iPod touch features the same revolutionary interface as iPhone. Built to take full advantage of the large 3.5-inch display, the multi-touch interface lets you control everything using only your fingers. So you can glide through albums with Cover Flow, flick through photos and enlarge them with a pinch, or zoom in and out on a section of a web page. And iPod touch features a touchscreen QWERTY keyboard perfect for browsing the web in Safari, searching for videos on YouTube, finding music on the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, entering calendar events, or adding new contacts.

That's a relief. Nonetheless I hope that iFuntastic can be modded quickly to work with the iPod touch. The iPod touch is still lacking for some software functionality, compared to the iPhone.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh 

besson3c,

So how can I enter new events on my cell and have them updated via iSync to iCal?

Homer1946,

NICE FINE!!! wOOt

Your cell would either need to write to iCal files that iSync could shuttle back to your Mac, or else write to a WebDAV or CalDAV server.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The fusing into a single calendar means that one cannot really use the calendar for both business and personal stuff without mixing things together.

yep.

Basically, it means that you need to sync back into a "To be sorted" calendar on the Mac, and manually sort new events.

The same way it's been since the dawn of iSync.

I'm hoping this limitation will be lifted with Leopard.

[besson3c]

One of the reasons why I'm so curious about how Apple is handling calendars is because it seems like Apple is being Apple again and being inconsistent and odd...

Apple writes their own Calendar Server which will be out for Leopard. The server is basically complete now, according to the developers on the list. One would think that they would properly support their own product, and that the purpose of this product being developed in the first place is to make Apple a bigger player in the Groupware market. This is an opportunity for Apple to take a bite out of Exchange and to show people that their iPhones can be used for businessney type stuff.

I know that both Calendar Server and Leopard aren't out yet, but iPhone users are apparently early adapters. Why not implement the initial phase which gets people using their iPhones with Calendar Server, advertise this functionality as beta if you want, make it .Mac only if you want, but it seems like an excellent way to get some testing happening, and ultimately a great feature to be able to advertise.

Here's hoping that when Leopard is out, Apple supports their own product fully.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Your cell would either need to write to iCal files that iSync could shuttle back to your Mac, or else write to a WebDAV or CalDAV server.

Oh come on, admit it! You have never used a Mac.

[analogika]

Touché.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Oh come on, admit it! You have never used a Mac.

Would it help if I used the more commonly used Apple labels such as "iSync", "iSync Services" (which I'm assuming is what iTunes uses), "iCal" rather than lingo like CalDAV, WebDAV, etc.?

I can assure you I do use a Mac, but I'd prefer your responses to address the accuracy or lack thereof of my statements, rather than engaging in pseudo detective work... Cool?

[analogika]

iCal is not a protocol. It is an application that resides in Apple Macintosh computers' Applications folder.

Just for future reference.

You've never used iCal, and you've never attempted to sync any external device with a Mac. That much is obvious.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

iCal is not a protocol. It is an application that resides in Apple Macintosh computers' Applications folder.

Just for future reference.

You've never used iCal, and you've never attempted to sync any external device with a Mac. That much is obvious.

Hehheh...

I know iCal is not a protocol. WebDAV is the protocol iCal uses for publishing calendars to remote servers, CalDAV is the protocol that will also be supported in Leopard's iCal application. The iCal calendar file file format is an open standard also confusingly called iCal. On the Mac its file extension is .ics.

I'm actually running the Darwin Calendar Server now, and before that I used to publish my iCal calendars to my server via WebDAV. I stopped using Apple's iCal since it doesn't yet support CalDAV, but I will probably return to using it under Leopard.

How do we know that you use iCal analogika, since we're playing this pointless game?

[analogika]

If I'm not, at least I appear to have read up on it enough to have an inkling of how syncing with external devices actually works in practice (hello thread topic).

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

If I'm not, at least I appear to have read up on it enough to have an inkling of how syncing with external devices actually works in practice (hello thread topic).

Like I said, I'm hip to how syncing of external devices occurs, and we both know you cannot prove otherwise (and don't bother to, if you are really concerned about keeping this thread on topic).

I felt like this thread provided room to include discussion about calendar publishing as well, is this a big deal? The original subject is about mail clients, which calendaring is not... Out of courtesy to the original poster, I would be more than happy to start a new thread about this stuff if he was bothered by this. So far, I haven't been asked.

Get off my back.

[analogika]

That's fine.

Except you're obviously NOT hip to the fact that multiple calendars are fused together into a single calender the moment they're synced up to an external device (though they remain separate in iCal.app).

Now you know.

You're welcome.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by analogika 

That's fine.

Except you're obviously NOT hip to the fact that multiple calendars are fused together into a single calender the moment they're synced up to an external device (though they remain separate in iCal.app).

Now you know.

You're welcome.

How is this relevant to anything? Where is this going? Unless there is a point to all of this, I'm not interested in bickering with you (nor anybody else)...

Thank you for clarifying some questions I had. I don't own an iPhone, but I was curious about how it dealt with publishing calendars.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

How is this relevant to anything? Where is this going? Unless there is a point to all of this, I'm not interested in bickering with you (nor anybody else)...

Thank you for clarifying some questions I had. I don't own an iPhone, but I was curious about how it dealt with publishing calendars.

Just a reminder before I let you drop - this was your initial post in this thread:

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The reason why you can't edit calendar events is a protocol limitation which should be fixed with Leopard and CalDAV savvy clients. The specific limitation is that you can't edit a calendar which you have subscribed to, and you can't publish to the same calendar from multiple clients or else this data will not stay in sync.

Edit: this should not be a problem with calendars that are not published to a server though.

NONE of which is relevant at the moment because a) you CAN edit calendar events, at least on the iPhone and b) neither the iPhone nor the iPod touch even DEAL with the protocols you mention, and then go into some length to explain.

No questions AFAICS.

So, indeed, you're right: it's irrelevant. That took you a while.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yep. It's on the Multitouch page, and here is the full blurb:

iPod touch features the same revolutionary interface as iPhone. Built to take full advantage of the large 3.5-inch display, the multi-touch interface lets you control everything using only your fingers. So you can glide through albums with Cover Flow, flick through photos and enlarge them with a pinch, or zoom in and out on a section of a web page. And iPod touch features a touchscreen QWERTY keyboard perfect for browsing the web in Safari, searching for videos on YouTube, finding music on the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, entering calendar events, or adding new contacts.

That's a relief. Nonetheless I hope that iFuntastic can be modded quickly to work with the iPod touch. The iPod touch is still lacking for some software functionality, compared to the iPhone.

Nope. It's gone. Now it says:

iPod touch features the same revolutionary interface as iPhone. Built to take full advantage of the large 3.5-inch display, the multi-touch interface lets you control everything using only your fingers. So you can glide through albums with Cover Flow, flick through photos and enlarge them with a pinch, or zoom in and out on a section of a web page. And iPod touch features a touchscreen QWERTY keyboard perfect for browsing the web in Safari, searching for videos on YouTube, finding music on the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, or adding new contacts.

The "entering calendar events" text has now been removed. Apparently Apple's own employees couldn't fathom the illogic behind leaving out this feature.

Apple has just lost a sale.

[TiDual]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Nope. It's gone.

...

The "entering calendar events" text has now been removed. Apparently Apple's own employees couldn't fathom the illogic behind leaving out this feature.

Apple has just lost a sale.

Yeah, this is pretty disappointing. Really may cancel my order too ... I'm getting generally concerned about this being a Rev. 1 device in many senses, and that in 6 months well see both improved functionality and greater storage capacity. It's clear that "feature limitation" serves two purposes here, for Apple: 1) it keeps the iPhone differentiation clear, and 2) it gives them room to offer a new model in the medium term (since major design changes aren't going to happen).

Touch buyers (and I may be one, still undecided), need to brace themselves for the fact that there will be a more feature complete model in the relatively near future. I know that's always the case, more or less, but this time it will come quite soon, and people area really going to want those features.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The "entering calendar events" text has now been removed. Apparently Apple's own employees couldn't fathom the illogic behind leaving out this feature.

That really sucks, and it is basically confirmation of the fact.

The sad part is that, if we are to believe the iPod touch uses the same binaries, then Apple has to maintain a separate calendar app that simply rips out the editing capability, just so they can keep it distinguished from the iPhone.

I thought Steve, and Apple, didn't care about Apple products cannabalizing other Apple products?

I'm still set on getting an iPhone and getting it unlocked, but I know many friends who don't want to bother and will just get an iPod touch, and are looking to get mostly the same functionality from it as an iPhone, minus phone of course.

This, and other holes in the functionality basically ensure there will be a healthy market of iPhone/iPod third-party apps, and unfortunately, the scavenging and illegal use of iPhone binaries in iPods (if they are compatible).

[Homer1946]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The "entering calendar events" text has now been removed.

Yes, I agree. This sucks.

[Visnaut]

Engadget has confirmed with a statement from Apple:

"Like current iPods, the touch can only view calendar entries created on your computer"

Boo.

So just because the previous iPods were limited to viewing calendar events, due to there not being a feasible input mechanism, that means they'll keep the calendar purposefully dumbed down? Then why offer the ability to add or edit contacts? I would wager that most people have to jot down dates more often than they have to jot down contact information.

It's lame that Apple went this route, not because of a technical reason (the framework for this already exists for the iPhone) but for a purely business reason to differentiate it from the iPhone.

I'm not one to usually complain about Apple's decisions. Even over other omissions for clever business reasons (i.e.: not including FM tuning in iPods). But in this case, they're having to at least remove or partially re-write an app that already works in order to remove functionality. Not cool.

I'm getting an iPhone for other reasons, but this still sticks in my craw.

[Big Mac]

Sorry to rez this thread, but I just want to point out to those who haven't used the iTouch that the info on not being able to create no calendar events is wrong. You can create new calendar events and new Address Book entries.

As for webmail, I have found that .Mac web mail unfortunately doesn't work very well, especially compared to gmail. Not that that comes as much of a surprise - I expect .Mac will be updated with a special mobile version at some point in the near future.