[amazing]

Thanks for the video link--hadn't seen that.

Was sure that I saw a firewire port during the milling process but darn if it wasn't there afterwards!

But I did see some pretty impressive reflections on the screen...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

the macbook pro's (whose screen is also less reflective than the macbook).

Please stop saying this: it's not true.

The glass is EXACTLY the same.

The reflectiveness is EXACTLY the same.

The reflections don't bother you BECAUSE the screen is that much more vivid (not "it's more vivid and less reflective").

I'm not sure if you're just referring to that, but your phrasing implies that the display surfaces are different material, which they are most definitely NOT.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Please stop saying this: it's not true.

The glass is EXACTLY the same.

The reflectiveness is EXACTLY the same.

The reflections don't bother you BECAUSE the screen is that much more vivid (not "it's more vivid and less reflective").

I'm not sure if you're just referring to that, but your phrasing implies that the display surfaces are different material, which they are most definitely NOT.

i'm only talking about what i am seeing, ie, side-by-side, the mbp has better color, and is less reflective.

this unscientific observation is based on 3 applestore trips, one bestbuy visit, and a digital society visit (it's nyc, and i walk a lot).

still...on it's own without referencing the pro), the macbook is a good screen (there, i said it).

just personally, i prefer a matte screen...

[ghporter]

I have a question about the screen. The discussion has been talking about the "glass" and I wonder, is the new MacBook screen actually glass, or is there a plastic layer over the LCD? So is it like an older MBP glossy screen, or is it like an iMac screen?

[Simon]

It is actually glass, like the iMac. Not plastic like the previous glossy MB(P)s.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

less reflective.

*sigh*

[MacTheRiverRat]

I have no problems with the glossy screen as long as there are no lights right behind me as I work on my MB. Most forums or anyone posting about MB or MBP say little if any about the screens. Then again most buyers aren't really that keen to the glossy screens anyway. IMHO My biggest (small) problem is learning the new tricks from 10.4.11 to 10.5.5 I enjoy the new toy! ;-)

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by MacTheRiverRat 

Most forums or anyone posting about MB or MBP say little if any about the screens. Then again most buyers aren't really that keen to the glossy screens anyway.

have you been to apple's own forums? a LOT of posts there (and google a bit) about the overly-glossy screen.

BUT...seems most consumers PREFER glossy, hence apple's decision to go glossy with all it's notebooks...

[MacTheRiverRat]

You so right. Thats what I've been doing this morning. You seem to not be that crazy with the glossy screens.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by MacTheRiverRat 

You so right. Thats what I've been doing this morning. You seem to not be that crazy with the glossy screens.

i prefer seeing my work, or the movie i am watching, to seeing myself watch a movie...

[fisherKing]

finally, this.

despite my misgivings, and the smaller footprint of the 12" powerbook...this has become my favorite mac notebook (and i started with the incredible 2400c).

the screen's shortcomings are (somewhat) forgiven, considering it's brightness and sharp image. the size and weight of this thing is really nice, the backlit keyboard is awesome (i work a lot at night, and used a usb lite over my powerbook keyboard).

speed, power. modest heat. stable (so far). great design, and am getting into the trackpad options.

will manage without firewire (sigh). otherwise, a great mac, proof that good things sometimes come in small packages...

[Urkel]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

i'm only talking about what i am seeing, ie, side-by-side, the mbp has better color, and is less reflective.

It's almost as if people are TRYING to ignore your point. I think the problem is tht you're saying it is less "reflective" but since it uses the same material then the reflective qualities should be equal. But the point still stands, as far as perception goes then reflection from the MBP is more tolerable because it uses a much better screen while the regular MB really washes out blacks on high brightness. And considering "turn up the brightness" is the solution for the screen issues then washed out colors definitely is a very big deal.

Anyway, i've had a Macbook since launch and I'm still hate that screen. I use an external monitor at home but I'm not happy with the idea that a tool that I purchased can only be used in certain environments.

[Proudest Monkey]

...as far as perception goes then reflection from the MBP is more tolerable because it uses a much better screen...

I've also made numerous visits to various Apple Stores and Best Buys including at the Mall Of America which has both stores so that I could look at the MB's and MBP's and their screens in different environments. Best Buy's store is not nearly as lit-up as Apple.

That being said, this discussion about a "much better screen" makes it sounds like the MB uses a CRT-like screen while the MBP uses an LCD/Plasma quality screen. The different is not that intense.

Maybe you have more experience looking at different screens or your work requires a better screen but I think it's fair to say if there is a difference in quality it should be expected since you are paying less. I would not expect a 19 CRT TV to look like a 19 LCD TV. I think it's safe to say an average user could work with the MB screen and be perfectly happy. I'll have to post when I get mine and start using it after transferring everything over.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Proudest Monkey 

I've also made numerous visits to various Apple Stores and Best Buys including at the Mall Of America which has both stores so that I could look at the MB's and MBP's and their screens in different environments. Best Buy's store is not nearly as lit-up as Apple.

That being said, this discussion about a "much better screen" makes it sounds like the MB uses a CRT-like screen while the MBP uses an LCD/Plasma quality screen. The different is not that intense.

Maybe you have more experience looking at different screens or your work requires a better screen but I think it's fair to say if there is a difference in quality it should be expected since you are paying less. I would not expect a 19 CRT TV to look like a 19 LCD TV. I think it's safe to say an average user could work with the MB screen and be perfectly happy. I'll have to post when I get mine and start using it after transferring everything over.

but we're comparing the SAME type of screen; the only difference (or at least, it should BE the only difference), is in physical size.

if apple wanted to put a better-quality screen on the macbook, it could easily do that.

[Proudest Monkey]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

but we're comparing the SAME type of screen; the only difference (or at least, it should BE the only difference), is in physical size.

if apple wanted to put a better-quality screen on the macbook, it could easily do that.

It is the same type of screen but I'll need someone with more knowledge on this topic to chime in to confirm my thought but the MBP has the NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT discrete graphics while the MB does not.

Maybe that is making the difference people are seeing?

There needs to be some separation between the MB and MBP in addition to screen size, processor options, firewire and expresscard/34 slot. The MB is entry level for the new design. It should be cheaper, made with cheaper products to keep the price down, and lure people in. First time buyers or casual buyers are not interested in the other options the MBP offers over the MB.

[Cloud]

I just got the new MBP and have been using it a fair bit. I haven't used any graphic programs on it right now because I'm still waiting to install them. I don't mind the glass screen that much as of right now, I've even had to dim down the brightness cause its.... pretty bright. Then again I haven't taken this outside or in any other environments other than my home.

I used to use a BenQ 19" and I truly loved it. But the real test will come when I start using graphic programs. The only concern I have with it right now is when the screen is all black, during a movie, webpage or whatever. I can literally see whatever is behind me due to the reflection.

I'll post updates later if I have any.

[iREZ]

Originally Posted by Cloud 

The only concern I have with it right now is when the screen is all black, during a movie, webpage or whatever. I can literally see whatever is behind me due to the reflection..

...and therein lies the rub.

[MacTheRiverRat]

Strange but my TV also has a glare too! Could this be the things to come like the switch from analog to all digital TV recepition.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Proudest Monkey 

There needs to be some separation between the MB and MBP in addition to screen size, processor options, firewire and expresscard/34 slot. The MB is entry level for the new design. It should be cheaper, made with cheaper products to keep the price down, and lure people in. First time buyers or casual buyers are not interested in the other options the MBP offers over the MB.

my question is: why? why can't we have 'pro' notebooks with different options (ie screen size)?
so those of us for whom 'small & light' is priority can carry around a 'pro' mac, while someone who needs a larger screen (ie 15" or 17") can have that?

it's frustrating that apple has so few choices these days (even previous-gen mbps had a matte vs glossy option)...

[MacTheRiverRat]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

it's frustrating that apple has so few choices these days (even previous-gen mbps had a matte vs glossy option)...

It might be that do to the state of the economy that Apple is trying to get maximum profits from each new unit. Matte screens would be one more item to keep in their factory as others would want the matte screen too. You right there should a option for matte vs glossy screens. i guess time will tell

[MacTheRiverRat]

Seems the isight camera illumanates the keyboard in low light conditions. I guess I could always turn it off in system keyboard preferences. I thought I was seeing things thinking that my keyboard was acting up.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by MacTheRiverRat 

Seems the isight camera illumanates the keyboard in low light conditions. I guess I could always turn it off in system keyboard preferences. I thought I was seeing things thinking that my keyboard was acting up.

What are you talking about?

The ambient light sensor that controls screen brightness and keyboard illumination is located in the upper screen bezel, near the iSight.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the iSight camera, though.

[MacTheRiverRat]

After further review I stand corrected. Guesss I know nothing about my Macbook. I'm sending back to Apple.

NOT!

[MacTheRiverRat]

Its not that I'm stupid. Its just I don't know anything.
Mark Twain

[fisherKing]

the best comparison i got to make was at digital society (mac dealer on 10th st in nyc); they had a new macbook, a new macbook pro, a new air, and a (matte) previous-gen mbp side by side, all with the same background image:a halloween sale ad (so, appropriately, orange and black).

i matched up monitor profiles, maxed the backlight, turned off the keyboard backlight.
okay, not scientific, but definitely worth observing:

the new pro had the best image overall (i say this despite my dislike of glossy screens); sharp image, strong colors, deep black, bright.

the older macbook had a good image too, just not as deep or bright.

the air was ok, decent.

the macbook, tho...both the orange and black were weak, especially next to the other macs. the screen was more reflective than the air and pro. just disappointing all around.

still...i bought one, and overall, my best mac (notebook) experience so far (and i've owned 6). maybe next gen will have FW & a better screen... (okay, just a wish...)

[Cold Warrior]

It showed up yesterday afternoon. First impressions: strong, solid feel which makes it fun and easy to tote around; smooth, refined body style; speedy and quick operations.

The first thing I did was change the display's setting to TV gamma. The blacks and colors just look better. I like the black bezel because it provides a nice contrast/frame to the LCD.

I don't find any faults with the LCD quality but I am not a media professional. It seems just as good as my late 2006 MBP screen or my Dell 20" LCD (purchased new in late 2007) -- except that this MB LCD goes to full brightness right away, and that's very nice.

Overall I'm very pleased with it.

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

It showed up yesterday afternoon. First impressions: strong, solid feel which makes it fun and easy to tote around; smooth, refined body style; speedy and quick operations.

The first thing I did was change the display's setting to TV gamma. The blacks and colors just look better. I like the black bezel because it provides a nice contrast/frame to the LCD.

I don't find any faults with the LCD quality but I am not a media professional. It seems just as good as my late 2006 MBP screen or my Dell 20" LCD (purchased new in late 2007) -- except that this MB LCD goes to full brightness right away, and that's very nice.

i'm loving mine overall, too, and frankly, the screen KILLS my 12" powerbooks...

Overall I'm very pleased with it.

i'm pleased with mine too, and frankly, the screen KILLS my 12" powerbooks...

[steve666]

Originally Posted by polendo 

Spheric,
I´m believing to think that my MBP´s screen needs some serious calibration, since like I said.. in all truthness the MBP looks washed out compared to the dual usd iBook. You mention the LED early 08 MBP screen is quite better than any Powerbook.. do you have one? if do, did you calibrate the screen or just out of the box you found it pretty good?
If I had to rank them, iBook, MacBook (early 08) and then MBP matte (early 08).
regards

I just got a MBP (previous model also) and I am not pleased at all with the screen. I too find the colors washed out (setting it to the RGB calibration, which isn't even listed as for this screen, helps make the colors more saturated), but for some reason my eyes are bothering me. I don't know if its because its LED and my ibook wasn't but right now I'm kind of upset about my purchase!
I also don't like the feel of the aluminum on my wrists when I type, especially on cold mornings.

[steve666]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I too noticed the "washed out" look initially on my MacBook 2.4. It appeared washed out at all brightness levels.

So i went into System Preferences>Displays>Color and created a new profile with the "gamma" set to the "PC level" as opposed o "Mac level". The blacks appeared more black and overall the picture appeared less washed out.

Cheers

I did the same thing, it does help with the colors.
I got the matte screen because I dont like glare. I wonder if the plastic macbook's glossy screen is ok with glare as opposed to the aluminum glass covered macbook? Then again, its a 13 inch screen, although I found my ibook's 14 inch screen to be just fine, it did have a lower resolution so everything wasnt so damn small!

[steve666]

Originally Posted by Urkel 

It's almost as if people are TRYING to ignore your point. I think the problem is tht you're saying it is less "reflective" but since it uses the same material then the reflective qualities should be equal. But the point still stands, as far as perception goes then reflection from the MBP is more tolerable because it uses a much better screen while the regular MB really washes out blacks on high brightness. And considering "turn up the brightness" is the solution for the screen issues then washed out colors definitely is a very big deal.

Anyway, i've had a Macbook since launch and I'm still hate that screen. I use an external monitor at home but I'm not happy with the idea that a tool that I purchased can only be used in certain environments.

Dumb question here-
If you add a monitor to your laptop can you close the lid? I dont wnat 2 screens staring at me.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by steve666 

I just got a MBP (previous model also) and I am not pleased at all with the screen. I too find the colors washed out (setting it to the RGB calibration, which isn't even listed as for this screen, helps make the colors more saturated), but for some reason my eyes are bothering me. I don't know if its because its LED and my ibook wasn't but right now I'm kind of upset about my purchase!

I was surprised to read his. Are you sure it's not just bad calibration? I think this is the first time I read that somebody prefers his old CCFL backlit display over the new LED backlit one. The latter is generally considered much brighter and more even.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by steve666 

Dumb question here-
If you add a monitor to your laptop can you close the lid? I dont wnat 2 screens staring at me.

Absolutely. It's called closed-lid mode. Once it's activated the internal screen will stay off (until you disconnect the external screen) regardless of the position the screen is in. IOW you can open the notebook again and the screen will still stay off.

You can find all the details on closed-lid mode in this sticky thread.

[steve666]

Originally Posted by Simon 

I was surprised to read his. Are you sure it's not just bad calibration? I think this is the first time I read that somebody prefers his old CCFL backlit display over the new LED backlit one. The latter is generally considered much brighter and more even.

I calibrated it to the RGB choice and it does help with th colors.
Someone told me my eyestrain may be due to the LED backlight. It flickers imperecptively but some people can notice it. That may be my issue.

[steve666]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Absolutely. It's called closed-lid mode. Once it's activated the internal screen will stay off (until you disconnect the external screen) regardless of the position the screen is in. IOW you can open the notebook again and the screen will still stay off.

You can find all the details on closed-lid mode in this sticky thread.

That may be my best option since I don't want to take a hit with the restocking fee and who knows if Apple will come out with the a new Mini-thats actually what I was hoping for. I basically just surf the net and the only power I would need would be to watch MPG clips and even the plastic macbook can handle that-actually the white macbook is another option because if I don't like the screen, I can use the closed lid mode and the macbook will take up les space on my small desk.

[amazing]

Eyestrain can also be attributed to having a screen that is too bright. Along with keeping the brightness turned down, I use a desktop picture that's a picture around twilight. The blue tones are very restful for my eyes--something along those lines might work for you. Keeping up with B-vitamins and fish oil omega 3 for vitamins A & D also helps. Conversely, alcohol depletes those and tires the eyes.

If you're getting eyestrain with a matte screen, I can only think that a glossy screen would be worse?

[steve666]

Originally Posted by amazing 

Eyestrain can also be attributed to having a screen that is too bright. Along with keeping the brightness turned down, I use a desktop picture that's a picture around twilight. The blue tones are very restful for my eyes--something along those lines might work for you. Keeping up with B-vitamins and fish oil omega 3 for vitamins A & D also helps. Conversely, alcohol depletes those and tires the eyes.

If you're getting eyestrain with a matte screen, I can only think that a glossy screen would be worse?

Yes, toning down the brightness helps. I will change the desktop picture and see if that helps, although it was medium blue before.
I take tons of vitamins and the eyestrain only started after I got the MBP. Not sure if the glossy would be worse, but I would only try the old glossy macbook plastic model since I know the glass covered models would drive me crazy!

[Proudest Monkey]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

my question is: why? why can't we have 'pro' notebooks with different options (ie screen size)?
so those of us for whom 'small & light' is priority can carry around a 'pro' mac, while someone who needs a larger screen (ie 15" or 17") can have that?

it's frustrating that apple has so few choices these days (even previous-gen mbps had a matte vs glossy option)...

It sounds like you bought a machine despite your reservations and so far so good?

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Proudest Monkey 

It sounds like you bought a machine despite your reservations and so far so good?

exactly. made peace with no firewire, and a glossy screen (with fair color).
otherwise, it's a great mac; fast, light. love the backlit keys, heat is not bad...
and screen is bright and clear (better in that respect than my former 12" powerbook).

all is well (enough)...

[Proudest Monkey]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

exactly. made peace with no firewire, and a glossy screen (with fair color).
otherwise, it's a great mac; fast, light. love the backlit keys, heat is not bad...
and screen is bright and clear (better in that respect than my former 12" powerbook).

all is well (enough)...

what specs did you got with on the new machine? anything you are planning upgrade immediately if you didn't

[fisherKing]

Originally Posted by Proudest Monkey 

what specs did you got with on the new machine? anything you are planning upgrade immediately if you didn't

2.4g, 4gigs ram (from apple), base hd (250g). will use as is, would only upgrade the HD if i needed to (running logic with reason) but so far so good. love the backlit keyboard.

IF (big 'if'), apple improved the screen and/or added firewire in the next revision, i might give this one to my GF and get a newer one).

otherwise, am good, getting my work done!

[Proudest Monkey]

Originally Posted by fisherKing 

2.4g, 4gigs ram (from apple), base hd (250g). will use as is, would only upgrade the HD if i needed to (running logic with reason) but so far so good. love the backlit keyboard.

IF (big 'if'), apple improved the screen and/or added firewire in the next revision, i might give this one to my GF and get a newer one).

otherwise, am good, getting my work done!

I was curious about the RAM and if you went with Apple or installed it yourself. Mine will be picked up from Best Buy (more friends and family live near a Best Buy than an Apple Store thus I have many Best Buy gift cards and will get more with the holidays coming up) and will add RAM later and refer to the other posts about that issue.

Sounds good; can't wait for mine!