[hart]

So I'm helping a guy update his web site. The company that made it no longer exists but they seem to be still hosting the site and it has their own content management system installed which was clearly designed to keep people from wrecking the site.

The problem is that the CMS seems to be so rudimentary as to be useless for what this guy needs done. Basically the only thing you can do is edit the text in the main body of the existing pages and add images or links into that text.

He needs to modify menus on existing pages and add in new pages. On top of this he says someone hacked into the main page (index) and it no longer has any of his content on it. Trying to access the page returns a "fatal error" message.

PLUS when I log into the CMS it seems to freeze before fully loading the interface so I only seem to have access to some of the controls.

Bear in mind that I am not fully experienced dealing with a CMS so I'm feeling my way around here. I could build the site from scratch as it's basically text and links and a few images but fixing up this mess is a bit complicated.

What I want to know is

1-does it make sense that a company that no longer exists is hosting?

2-Is there usually some way to get around a CMS or is the interface provided the sum total of access to the site?

3-If the site is inaccessible to make the changes he wants does that mean he has to change hosting providers and make a whole new site? How does one make a transition like this? I mean closing out the old site and starting up a new one at the same address.

I know these questions may sound asinine but I'm trying to figure out what approach to take to make the changes he wants.

And I suppose if he does have to move the site I'll have to think about how he will manage his content at the new location.

I think what I need is a web developers forum so any recommendations for that would be great too!

Thanks for any hand-holding you can provide.

[iMOTOR]

1. Maybe.

2. Probably not. What CMS is it? Drupal? Joomla? Wordpress?

3. Yes. Does he know were the domain name is registered? You can do a whois search to see who the registrar is. Then you will need to log in to the registrars control panel to change the domain to point to the nameserver of your new host.

[andi*pandi]

1. Possible, but I think it more likely that OutofBusinessCo paid HostingCo for a year so it's still working til the year is up.

2. I think most CMS separate structure (template, navigation, layout) from content (posts, pages, etc). To edit the structure/theme you'd need FTP access.

Aside from any login to the CMS center do you have any FTP access? From the CMS center can you export posts?

3. If the host is anything like dreamhost, and the CMS is anything like wordpress, he/you should be able to log in to the CMS, export posts, log in to FTP, zip up all his files, and then import everything somewhere else. If this is a completely custom CMS though, I suspect you're best starting over.

[besson3c]

You'll also need a database dump if the CMS saves to a database. Not all CMSes provide an export option, in which case you'll have to do a mysqldump (if it is a Linux based host running MySQL).

It is definitely possible to migrate to a new CMS and do whatever you want, the how-to will depend on the particulars of the site you are dealing with.

[Big Mac]

Hey besson, I have a similar issue. A site that I help manage wants to change servers, but the current host that the site has been on since its CMS-based redesign doesn't want to provide SFTP, SSH or myphp direct access to download the files and database so that it can be placed elsewhere.

The best they've said they'll do up to this point is burn a disc with the files including a database dump. However, the other firm we work with that helps with some web design aspects said that that's not really good enough and may cause issues as a result of not getting configurations exactly right. The person I talked to about this who told me a dvd backup isn't sufficient isn't a tech person, just the owner of the company. I don't think she really knows what she's talking about. Do you think she could be right?

[hart]

1-talked to the client and it's being hosted by some 3rd company.

2-the CMS installed is some custom application of OutofBusinessCo. It doesn't even seem to load fully but times out with half the stuff unloaded. So there may be more controls but they just aren't loading. The only thing available is editing main text on each existing page via a little edit icon that shows up when you're logged in.

So I can't do anything from the CMS center because it either doesn't exist or isn't showing up.

Ah! database dump. Lost me there. Sorry for my ignorance.

OK, I'm going to poke around a bit and see if I can get any further.

Any recommendations on what is most straightforward CMS to work with if he has to move?

(I would really love it if just once I got a project that was something I knew backwards and forwards.)

Thank you for your help!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Hey besson, I have a similar issue. A site that I help manage wants to change servers, but the current host that the site has been on since its CMS-based redesign doesn't want to provide SFTP, SSH or myphp direct access to download the files and database so that it can be placed elsewhere.

The best they've said they'll do up to this point is burn a disc with the files including a database dump. However, the other firm we work with that helps with some web design aspects said that that's not really good enough and may cause issues as a result of not getting configurations exactly right. The person I talked to about this who told me a dvd backup isn't sufficient isn't a tech person, just the owner of the company. I don't think she really knows what she's talking about. Do you think she could be right?

There is no host that will provide you with the configurations of their services.

There are some hosts that allow local PHP configurations, but these would be included in your site backup. Likewise for rewrite rules found in an .htaccess file. All of these configurations would exist in your top level web directory, so if there is anything there that is not a part of your website, I'd suggest checking them over and if your site has any particular server-side requirements make sure that the host you move to has these features available and enabled. Sometimes sites will make use of local cronjobs, SSH public keys, and other sorts of workflow type stuff, so I'd also check to see if there are any cronjobs or scripts that push or pull stuff to the site via SSH. If you host doesn't offer SSH these two factors are moot.

Sometimes there will be code that uses functions found only in a particular version of PHP, or perhaps old stuff that won't work properly with newer versions of PHP (or Ruby, or whatever the site uses). I'd check this out too. The same applies with the database the site uses, if any. You can mess around with installing the site locally or through a VM with the latest versions of things, and take note of what versions were on the host originally too before you get off of it.

Finally, sometimes hosts suppress PHP error logging to the browser while others don't (I don't know if other languages have similar settings). These settings can also be overridden in the code. This is another thing to check on, or else you might get a lot of ugly non-fatal notices and warnings being output to your sites.

However, while these sorts of precautions are smart, in most cases the majority of sites are portable and can be transferred to another host without issue. To do so you just need to copy over:

- a database dump
- all website files, including any .htaccess rules
- any server specific stuff such as the stuff listed above, if applicable

If your host does not give you command line/SSH access to replay a database dump file you can open this open in any text editor and paste this into the phpMyAdmin query window or any sort of MySQL shell and execute it that way. A dump file is simply a list of SQL statements needed to regenerate your database schema and/or data.

If the site is a Ruby on Rails site you will need to make sure you have all of the gems installed the site uses.

I hope this helps, it's more thorough than most anybody doing this will need, but there you go

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by hart 

1-talked to the client and it's being hosted by some 3rd company.

2-the CMS installed is some custom application of OutofBusinessCo. It doesn't even seem to load fully but times out with half the stuff unloaded. So there may be more controls but they just aren't loading. The only thing available is editing main text on each existing page via a little edit icon that shows up when you're logged in.

So I can't do anything from the CMS center because it either doesn't exist or isn't showing up.

Ah! database dump. Lost me there. Sorry for my ignorance.

OK, I'm going to poke around a bit and see if I can get any further.

Any recommendations on what is most straightforward CMS to work with if he has to move?

(I would really love it if just once I got a project that was something I knew backwards and forwards.)

Thank you for your help!

If the CMS is some homegrown thing, I would skip fussing with it. Unless the code is clear, understandable, and enough that you want to salvage it's probably best to skip it like you are trying to do and evaluate moving to something else that is supported and being actively maintained.

To move to another CMS since there won't be a database import script from this proprietary CMS to whatever you wish to use you'll have to write something yourself, or else copy and paste the content out of the old site into the new, recreating it. You'll also have to learn about the theming engine for that CMS so that you can separate the template from the content. A CMS allows a user to manage the site's content, the template (the stuff that is static from page to page) is typically non-editable from within the CMS. I'd take a look at the HTML code too. If it is dreck, I wouldn't bother trying to migrate the theme over to the CMS as is, I'd just start from scratch with new HTML.

There are a variety of CMSes, each with their strengths and weaknesses. We'd have to know more about this company and the site and how it will be used and edited and stuff to make a recommendation. This assessment will primarily be an assessment of the best balance of kitchen sink of features vs. user friendliness/simplicity, or in a perfect world something that provides both.

I'm sorry that there is no simple one-size-fits-all answer here, not to suggest that you were expecting one, but it still can be overwhelming wading into a project like this for the first time having to sort out somebody else's mess, particularly when it seems very shoddy and held together with duct tape. Sometimes these sorts of projects can be the most challenging, even compared to creating a brand new site from scratch! Unfortunately, non savvy business owners don't seem to generally be very smart about avoiding these sorts of situations and the whole painting-yourself-into-a-corner thing

[hart]

The whole thing was built years ago. The last communication from OutofBusinessCo was in 2008.

The whole site is just text and links with a contact form on one page. Nothing complicated at all. It's for a small non-profit with one guy running the administrative part who will have to do any updates which mostly seem to amount to changing the staff bios when necessary and similar stuff. So I think I'd lean towards ease-of-use over features in a new CMS.

Geez, I'm doing a lot of work for a job that I haven't actually confirmed yet. I have to chalk it up to "learning experience." In which case maybe I should pick the CMS which would be most useful for me to learn about. :/

[andi*pandi]

WordPress. Not just saying because I know it, but for a small site as you describe WordPress will be your friend.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by hart 

The whole thing was built years ago. The last communication from OutofBusinessCo was in 2008.

The whole site is just text and links with a contact form on one page. Nothing complicated at all. It's for a small non-profit with one guy running the administrative part who will have to do any updates which mostly seem to amount to changing the staff bios when necessary and similar stuff. So I think I'd lean towards ease-of-use over features in a new CMS.

Geez, I'm doing a lot of work for a job that I haven't actually confirmed yet. I have to chalk it up to "learning experience." In which case maybe I should pick the CMS which would be most useful for me to learn about. :/

Oh, so the old site didn't use a CMS at all? In that case, this makes life much easier for you.

WordPress is indeed a nice and easy choice to get up and running, I'd echo andi*pandi's suggestion and suggest you start looking there

[hart]

Thanks. That's the third vote for Wordpress.

[turtle777]

Start from scratch and make a new web site.

I like concrete5 - Free CMS | Open Source Content Management System

-t

[andi*pandi]

Thanks for the link turtle! That looks like something that would be friendly, but perhaps a little more powerful than wordpress?

[turtle777]

I opted for it instead of Wordpress. Wordpress is a bit too "bloggy".

I can't tell if it's more powerful. But it's a bit more useful for a professional website.

-t

[besson3c]

That WordPress cannot be used for non-blogging websites is a common misconception. WordPress is missing some features you'd find in other CMSes, but it is not unsuitable for a "professional" website. There are things about it I dislike, but end user friendliness and lack of theme/plugin/widget options is not one of them. It's a great first timer CMS, if nothing more.

[Big Mac]

Thank you for your thorough reply to my question, besson. I'm looking at the files they sent by CD. They actually could have just emailed them to me because they didn't even fill a CD. I have a zip that contains the FTP files and then a single MYSQL file. I'm wondering if that's sufficient to recreate the site. To clarify, I wasn't expecting them to provide all the configuration details about their servers. I just was wondering if I could determine whether or not the CD dump the current host provides is equivalent to what our design firm would download if they had the full FTP/SSH/myphp access they were looking for.