[The Final Dakar]

For First Time, Americans Favor Legalizing Marijuana

For marijuana advocates, the last 12 months have been a period of unprecedented success as Washington and Colorado became the first states to legalize recreational use of marijuana. And now for the first time, a clear majority of Americans (58%) say the drug should be legalized. This is in sharp contrast to the time Gallup first asked the question in 1969, when only 12% favored legalization.

So why the big change in opinion? I mean, marijuana culture was there in the 90s (Half-baked was in '98) yet approval was really low then? I suppose it could be best explained by the old dying off and a gen of pot smokers now being firmly entrenched as adults. The details kind of back this up:



Pretty stark difference between the SS crowd and everyone else.


Of course, no poll is complete without the political breakdown:


Once again out of step with the mainstream opinion, Republicans

[Shaddim]

That's actually more Repubs than I thought. Conservatives do change, just not as quickly, as evidenced by your charts. However, that's the nature of the ideology, they're more cautious, but that can be a good thing. Eventually pot will be legal, or at least federally decriminalized, then the individual states will decide how to proceed on the issue.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That's actually more Repubs than I thought. Conservatives do change, just not as quickly, as evidenced by your charts. However, that's the nature of the ideology, they're more cautious, but that can be a good thing.

More cautious or more resistant? Scientifically there isn't any data to show marijuana as being wildly deleterious, doubly so when compared to cigarettes or alcohol. (Let's not even get into the medical part, which people also deny)

My thread title was a joke, but in retrospect, I wonder how much religiosity correlates with the hold outs. Of course, it could also be casual racism, as marijuana is perceived to be part of that culture as well. We have jails full of these minor offenses.

Edit: It's a shame they didn't also poll stances on medical marijuana and decriminalization.

[subego]

AFAIK, there's no Christian prohibition against it, other than you should follow the law.

If the reason Republicans aren't for it is because it's against the law, isn't that begging the question?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

AFAIK, there's no Christian prohibition against it, other than you should follow the law.

Hopefully a resident Christian will come in and clarify this for us.

[subego]

It was asked to the Padre.

JuRY: Is there anything against smoking pot in the bible?
Padre: No, but you shouldn't...
JuRY: You down with P. O. P. E.? You know I'm blowin' trees! Cos I'm the POPE! I got nuns sittin' on my... WHAAAAT?


If that helps.

[The Final Dakar]

JuRY?

[subego]

Justin Robert Young. Shwood's cohort.

For those out of the loop, JuRY and Shwood are comedians, and "the Padre" is a Jesuit priest.

Sorry for the lack of background.

[The Final Dakar]

You had to know I'd ask, right?

[subego]

Actually no. I've always used that nickname in the TWiT thread.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by subego 

AFAIK, there's no Christian prohibition against it, other than you should follow the law.

If the reason Republicans aren't for it is because it's against the law, isn't that begging the question?

I've heard it argued that Christians shouldn't drink alcohol because it takes away our God-given intellect, but it always struck me as "What rationalization can I find to hate booze" rather than "What does the Bible say about booze?". I suppose a similar argument could be made against pot, but it'd be just as hard to find Biblical backing.

[Laminar]

TWiT?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I've heard it argued that Christians shouldn't drink alcohol because it takes away our God-given intellect, but it always struck me as "What rationalization can I find to hate booze" rather than "What does the Bible say about booze?". I suppose a similar argument could be made against pot, but it'd be just as hard to find Biblical backing.

Well it reminds me of strains of ultraconservative christianity that are against dancing (I may have my facts wrong but I believe that was said about fmr. attorney general Ashcroft).

I always thought that the argument against alcohol fell to gluttony, in that partaking too much made one drunk. Of course that leaves the door open to recreational drinking, for the more reasonable people.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

What does the Bible say

Sin-sin-sin-sin-sin-sin-sin-sin!

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

TWiT?

Death by acronym.

This Week in Tech

[subego]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

TWiT?

This Week in Tech.

They (surprisingly) have a priest on staff.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I've heard it argued that Christians shouldn't drink alcohol because it takes away our God-given intellect, but it always struck me as "What rationalization can I find to hate booze" rather than "What does the Bible say about booze?". I suppose a similar argument could be made against pot, but it'd be just as hard to find Biblical backing.

I'd say that until you get germ theory, booze is far safer to drink than water. I'd be surprised if they encoded anti-drinking sentiments in there. That would have killed their adherents.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Eventually pot will be legal, or at least federally decriminalized, then the individual states will decide how to proceed on the issue.

Um, have you failed to notice that the exact opposite is happening?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I've heard it argued that Christians shouldn't drink alcohol because it takes away our God-given intellect, but it always struck me as "What rationalization can I find to hate booze" rather than "What does the Bible say about booze?"

I've always found it incredibly bizarre that any Christian group would ban the consumption of alcohol, despite it being a ritually-mandated requirement from the very inception of the religion, as advocated by the very founder of the religion.

[ebuddy]

I can't help, but think folks are so dug in ideologically that they'd cite a political difference as somehow demonstrative of a more pervasive societal "disconnectedness"; another excuse to ridicule religion. This is not about hiding under coffee tables clutching rosaries and Bibles. Republicans often and conservatives generally, want a firm grasp on the implications of law and a disciplined approach to their workings. Law is inherently political so it only follows that there would be political differences. I think a lot of Republicans could be swayed considerably by a champion who does not carry himself as if he needs a fat blunt for emotional control.

I think the poll also indicates more broadly that people are more quick to identify themselves as Independent than "Republican" as this is increasingly a bad word.

With as much professed support for the legalization of marijuana as this poll suggests, let the polling places decide and let the States who want to pioneer this new ground show us how it's done and whether the pros outweigh the cons.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Well it reminds me of strains of ultraconservative christianity that are against dancing (I may have my facts wrong but I believe that was said about fmr. attorney general Ashcroft).

I know a church camp director that's vehemently against dancing and rap music. I went to a wedding held at his facilities and they had to wait until he left to break out the swing dancing. No rap music, though.

I always thought that the argument against alcohol fell to gluttony, in that partaking too much made one drunk. Of course that leaves the door open to recreational drinking, for the more reasonable people.

"Drunkenness" is specifically called out so there's no need for it to fall to gluttony. But it's easy to argue whether "drunkenness" refers to being drunk once or a pattern of being drunk all the time (alcoholism).

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'd say that until you get germ theory, booze is far safer to drink than water. I'd be surprised if they encoded anti-drinking sentiments in there. That would have killed their adherents.

Those are always my favorite conversations.

"But Jesus and the disciples drank wine! It's right there!"

"Alcohol was safer than the water available to them, so it's okay that they drank. You have water."

"But Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding where they ran out of wine. You think they started out with a shortage of wine??"

"NO BOOZE. The...uh...spirit is leading me to say that."

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I've always found it incredibly bizarre that any Christian group would ban the consumption of alcohol, despite it being a ritually-mandated requirement from the very inception of the religion, as advocated by the very founder of the religion.

I was 21 by the time I finally went somewhere that actually served wine at communion. It threw me off in a big way.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Um, have you failed to notice that the exact opposite is happening?

What do you mean? It's be legalized in a few states and medical marijuana is allowed in many others.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I can't help, but think folks are so dug in ideologically that they'd cite a political difference as somehow demonstrative of a more pervasive societal "disconnectedness"

It was tongue in cheek, just like the thread title.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Republicans often and conservatives generally, want a firm grasp on the implications of law and a disciplined approach to their workings.

The problem is, they accept the premise that it should be illegal based on what?

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I think a lot of Republicans could be swayed considerably by a champion who does not carry himself as if he needs a fat blunt for emotional control.

Hahaha, now that is a good point. Much like OWS the most visible pot smoker usually isn't winning the cause any friends.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

I think the poll also indicates more broadly that people are more quick to identify themselves as Independent than "Republican" as this is increasingly a bad word.

Well, liberals certainly wouldn't know anything about how that feels.

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

With as much professed support for the legalization of marijuana as this poll suggests, let the polling places decide and let the States who want to pioneer this new ground show us how it's done and whether the pros outweigh the cons.

As I pointed out, you can break it down to three issues: legalization, decriminalization, and medical marijuana. I understand doubts about the first, and resistance to the second, but the third is inexcusable.

Ex: New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie's medical marijuana changes pass house - CNN.com

Christie ... said he would sign legislation that included a rule that edible marijuana would be dispensed only to minors and that a psychiatrist and a physician both would have to approve before a minor could join the program.

I very much doubt there's a medical reason he wants that bolded.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

What do you mean? It's be legalized in a few states and medical marijuana is allowed in many others.

That's exactly what I suggested. Shaddim suggested federal decriminalization with happen and then states will decide whether to keep it legal, when in fact decriminalization is starting at the state level already. We should expect the feds will drag their heels on pot decriminalization for many years yet.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

That's exactly what I suggested. Shaddim suggested federal decriminalization with happen and then states will decide whether to keep it legal, when in fact decriminalization is starting at the state level already. We should expect the feds will drag their heels on pot decriminalization for many years yet.

Its been a weird issue. Obama came in and dicked over California but after Washington and Colorado they seem to have either changed their minds or figured out public opinion and are now backing off.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Its been a weird issue. Obama came in and dicked over California but after Washington and Colorado they seem to have either changed their minds or figured out public opinion and are now backing off.

Have they? I was under the impression that states that decriminalize pot will be left alone, but states that merely permit medical marijuana will continue to be hounded. Is that not the case?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I was under the impression that states that decriminalize pot will be left alone, but states that merely permit medical marijuana will continue to be hounded.

Logic-wise that feels backwards.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Is that not the case?

Telling you what I remember. Don't take it as hard fact.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

Republicans often and conservatives generally, want a firm grasp on the implications of law and a disciplined approach to their workings.

Academic Republicans maybe, Joe Sixpack Republican? Not a chance.

I think the poll also indicates more broadly that people are more quick to identify themselves as Independent than "Republican" as this is increasingly a bad word.

"Liberal" is often used as a bad word too, agreed?

[BadKosh]

Just the power of propaganda. No actual thought about having irresponsible jerks on the road drunk or stoned. The drunks pass out on their couch, ruining their livers while the stoners just sit passively and smoke to ruin their lungs. Do you see the disconnect of banning tobacco while pushing pot?

[subego]

I'd rather be called a liberal than a Republican, and I'm much closer to being a Republican.

[subego]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Just the power of propaganda. No actual thought about having irresponsible jerks on the road drunk or stoned. The drunks pass out on their couch, ruining their livers while the stoners just sit passively and smoke to ruin their lungs. Do you see the disconnect of banning tobacco while pushing pot?

Wut

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

Wut

He sees the restriction of where you can smoke tobacco products as contradictory with the effort to legalize marijuana. Except he's sees the restriction of tobacco where tobacco can be used as a "banning" and equal rights for pot as "pushing."

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'd rather be called a liberal than a Republican, and I'm much closer to being a Republican.

That was not the case on this forum 5-10 years ago, I assure you.

[subego]

I picked up on it early.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

He sees the restriction of where you can smoke tobacco products as contradictory with the effort to legalize marijuana. Except he's sees the restriction of tobacco where tobacco can be used as a "banning" and equal rights for pot as "pushing."

This is cool! I can translate Chongo for you, and you can translate BK for me!

In some ways, he may have a point. If you live in SF, I'd say tobacco is closed to banned, and while pot isn't "pushed" per-se, it's smoked pretty aggressively.

In public.

Where it's illegal to smoke cigarettes.


Of course, pot has very little in the way of permanent side effects, and cigarettes kill you.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

This is cool! I can translate Chongo for you, and you can translate BK for me!

In some ways, he may have a point. If you live in SF, I'd say tobacco is closed to banned, and while pot isn't "pushed" per-se, it's smoked pretty aggressively.

In public.

Where it's illegal to smoke cigarettes.


Of course, pot has very little in the way of permanent side effects, and cigarettes kill you.

The smell is enough that both should be treated the same.

[subego]

Really? Love the smell of good pot.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

Really? Love the smell of good pot.

Not everyone does (I think I'd get sick of it after a while). It's one of the reasons people hate cigarettes; It permeates everything.

[subego]

And by "agressive" I mean "you kids stop making all that noise or I'm going to call the cops. We're tryin' to smoke pot over here!"

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Not everyone does (I think I'd get sick of it after a while). It's one of the reasons people hate cigarettes; It permeates everything.

Stale cigarette smoke smell is nasty. I'll completely agree with that.

I'm not as bothered by fresh smoke, but that is likely because I smoke.

Pot smoke doesn't bother me whether fresh or stale.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

The smell is enough that both should be treated the same.

What I should have said...

Bite your tongue! Chongo smells like roses.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm not as bothered by fresh smoke, but that is likely because I smoke.

Also because as a smoker, your sense of smell is worthless.

[subego]

I've been told that, but I'm not sure how true it is.

I mean, I'm sure it's not as good as before I started, but it's better than a lot of people I know who don't smoke. Especially when it comes to things like mold.

Likewise, I'm desensitized somewhat to smoke, but I definitely notice it on clothes and such.

[besson3c]

Subego, I love you, you should quit smoking because it is bad for you, just in case you hadn't heard.

Plus, it is the leading cause of forest fires, and I know an upstanding young man like yourself is not interested in burning down the homes of our woodland creatures.

[Snow-i]

Weed smells way better then cig smoke. It also doesn't permeate quite as much.

As one of the 35%, I'll chime in to say that its about time, and I am less alone on the right side than I thought before this poll.

I'd also like to point out that the age demographic is extremely important to this trend. Right now, the only age group not in favor of legalization is the 65 and older crowd. Republican and democrat isn't going to matter in another 20 years on this issue. Especially since the establishment GOP is now what the establishment Democrats will be in another 5-10 years. The pendulum swings and its time we move these old farts out of office, regardless of party. They are out of touch with people at large, and are far more concerned with being reelected than with doing what's best for the citizenry.

[subego]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Plus, it is the leading cause of forest fires, and I know an upstanding young man like yourself is not interested in burning down the homes of our woodland creatures.

Truly the worst cigarette smell is your pack after you start using it for butt disposal because you don't want to litter and/or burn down a forest.

[laughingbunny]

I don't think legalizing weed is decaying American morality
a lot of kids smokes weed too, by being in jail and interact with other murder, rapist is not going to help them become a better person
Even Obama smokes weed, if he had a criminal record he wont become who he is today

People make mistakes and do stupid things, as long as you learn from it it's worth it

[BadKosh]

I tend to be more ambitious and busy when I don't smoke or drink. I've pretty much stopped both. I feel better and don't wake up in the morning with a cloud in my head either.

[Shaddim]

Still not seeing how consuming MJ is immoral. A little unethical perhaps, since it's still a federal crime to possess any, but immoral?