Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

wallinbl · Nov 22, 2002, 03:30 PM

I'm looking to buy a Powerbook, but my problem is that I do a lot of consulting work on Windows platforms. I develop in VB6/VB.NET most of the time I am at work. Over time, I'd like to transition to doing Mac development & consulting, but that will take time.

Until that time, if I purchased a Powerbook, I'd be spending a considerable amount of time doing work at client sites in VPC. Does anyone do this? What has your experience been?

ivi · 07:41 PM

On my 667 VGA It was very slow for any serious work. I don't know how is it on new ones, but you will probably be better off getting some chip wintel, if you want to have both OS's. I mostly used VPC for linux in text mode, which is very good.

Edit: I meant it runs very good.

Eug · Nov 22, 2002, 04:18 PM

It's supposed to be much faster if the drive where the Windows image is on is a separate drive. I don't know how much faster, because I have not done this and don't use VPC, but in the case of the PowerBook it would of course mean an external Firewire drive, which kinda defeats the point of its portability.

My useless 2 cents.

rm199 · Nov 22, 2002, 05:18 PM

I do 'serious' work in VPC but that doesn't mean I wouldn't lose patience with the 667 if taking it to client sites. The suggestion to get a cheap wintel is a good one.

RM

PeteWK · Nov 23, 2002, 04:24 AM

Originally posted by rm199:
I do 'serious' work in VPC but that doesn't mean I wouldn't lose patience with the 667 if taking it to client sites. The suggestion to get a cheap wintel is a good one.

RM

Yep Yep Yep. A friend of mine has the 800 DVI with 1024 mb of ram. He uses VPC with a very large research program for his science field. He says it's just OK. He compared it to his old 300mhz P-II laptop. Take it for what it's worth because this program he uses is HUGE and very demanding.

PeteWK

D'Espice · Nov 23, 2002, 08:19 AM

I do... or let's say I did. Back when I was still running OS 9 on my PowerMac 7300 with a 450MHz G4 and 368MB of RAM, I was running Linux in VPC4 to do my programming work for university. I had to do some Java programs, some Gofer and Pascal stuff, and VPC did a great job.
I's also running Windows 98 and some MS developer tools in VPC4, which was slow yet usable.

VPC under OS X however is incredibly slow and not worth it. You might already fall asleep while virtually booting, it's terrible.

Cards1 · Nov 23, 2002, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by D'Espice:
I do... or let's say I did. Back when I was still running OS 9 on my PowerMac 7300 with a 450MHz G4 and 368MB of RAM, I was running Linux in VPC4 to do my programming work for university. I had to do some Java programs, some Gofer and Pascal stuff, and VPC did a great job.
I's also running Windows 98 and some MS developer tools in VPC4, which was slow yet usable.

VPC under OS X however is incredibly slow and not worth it. You might already fall asleep while virtually booting, it's terrible.

I teach an Intro to Computers class that covers Windows and Office XP. VPC was not fast enough (for me) to do live instruction. However, then I learned about Remote Desktop Connection. This is a free Microsoft product that allows you to login and "pull" the screen from a PC. So.....I set my Dell up in my office and simply login to it using my PB. In essence, you are pulling the image from the Dell through the network. It is fast--as fast as your network because you are using the Dell processor. Check it out. It is VERY acceptable.

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 11:47 AM

MS RDC is awesome, but I'm not sure it solves his problem. Just to reiterate, basically you have to hijack another physical PC to use it. Not much help when you're on the road.

I do use it at home though all the time. I have only one copy of Quicken, and that's for the PC. I use RDC to access it. Not only is it fast, it ensures all my edits are on the same file all the time.

lokjah · Nov 23, 2002, 02:24 PM

serious work in VPC

i'll answer that question when ive recovered from a laugh attack and can pick myself up from off the floor.

l�k

CheesePuff · Nov 23, 2002, 02:36 PM

As long as you are running OS X 10.2, have more than 512 MB RAM, run Virtual PC 5.0.4, and only use Windows 2000 SP3, it will be fine.

Cards1 · Nov 23, 2002, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by lokjah:
serious work in VPC

i'll answer that question when ive recovered from a laugh attack and can pick myself up from off the floor.

l�k

Yea bro, I'm hearing ya.....

grey · Nov 23, 2002, 06:50 PM

I'm also inclined to suggest you purchase a PC laptop if you really depend on windows.

$2999.99
1GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 & 256K L2 cache
133MHz system bus
512MB SDRAM memory
60GB Ultra ATA hard drive
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000
w/64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem
1 FireWire & 2 USB Ports
AirPort Card Included

vs.

$1650.00
p4 2.4ghz
60 gig HD
1 gig DDR2100 ram
dvd/cd-rw
4 usb 2.0 ports
1 firewire port
ethernet/56k modem
infrared port
s-video output
s/pdif audio output

hmmmm... tough choice

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by grey:
I'm also inclined to suggest you purchase a PC laptop if you really depend on windows.

$2999.99
1GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 & 256K L2 cache
133MHz system bus
512MB SDRAM memory
60GB Ultra ATA hard drive
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000
w/64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem
1 FireWire & 2 USB Ports
AirPort Card Included

vs.

$1650.00
p4 2.4ghz
60 gig HD
1 gig DDR2100 ram
dvd/cd-rw
4 usb 2.0 ports
1 firewire port
ethernet/56k modem
infrared port
s-video output
s/pdif audio output

hmmmm... tough choice

I should point out that the Firewire port on the P4 is a 4-pin, and you failed to mention how much that laptop weighs.

I'm still interested in knowing if anyone has tried VPC with the images on an external Firewire fast laptop drive. It would have to be Win 2000 or Win XP with all the services and eye candy turned off though.

Fortunately, that 6-pin Firewire connector on the PB would be able to power the external drive natively.

ryju · Nov 23, 2002, 07:13 PM

Does RDC work with XP Home edition or 98 SE by any chance?

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by ryju:
Does RDC work with XP Home edition or 98 SE by any chance?

Nope. XP Pro.

grey · Nov 23, 2002, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by Eug:

I should point out that the Firewire port on the P4 is a 4-pin, and you failed to mention how much that laptop weighs.

I'm still interested in knowing if anyone has tried VPC with the images on an external Firewire fast laptop drive. It would have to be Win 2000 or Win XP with all the services and eye candy turned off though.

Fortunately, that 6-pin Firewire connector on the PB would be able to power the external drive natively.

point being that pc laptops are a better value; he could get a significantly smaller/lighter laptop if all he needed was windows for vb. and i'm sure there are adapters for sony's take on 1394..

not that either of these justifies the huge price gap..

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by grey:

point being that pc laptops are a better value; he could get a significantly smaller/lighter laptop if all he needed was windows for vb. and i'm sure there are adapters for sony's take on 1394..

Actually I find that similarly small and lightweight PC laptops are not cheap either.

And the difference between 4-pin ports and 6-pin ports is that the 4-pin ones are not powered but the 6-pin ports are.

The "adapters" that allow Firewire power from a 4-pin port are essentially Firewire hubs with AC adapters. Not very convenient.

There are direct 4-pin to 6-pin adapters, but of course they provide no power.

grey · 07:59 PM

still much cheaper than apple

and for the record, aren't vaios the only ones with i-Link 4-pin 1394 ports? and even vaios have a second 6-pin one..

edit: oh wait, is apple even using usb 2.0 yet?

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by grey:
still much cheaper than apple

and for the record, aren't vaios the only ones with i-Link 4-pin 1394 ports? and even vaios have a second 6-pin one..

edit: oh wait, is apple even using usb 2.0 yet?

Check it out. You'd be hard pressed to find a comparatively spec'd PC laptop with the same weight and the same price. Trust me, I've looked. And every single PC laptop I've looked at with Firewire use 4-pin ports. This includes the Vaios but I haven't checked in the last couple of months. Indeed, this has shown up as a major thorn in the sides of some Dell users. All of the their Firewire endowed-laptops use 4-pin ports.

As for USB 2.0, I have less interest in it at this time. My PC desktops don't even have it. USB 2 is sort of like USB 1.1 on steroids, or Firewire without enough power. I'd much rather have USB 1.1 and 6-pin Firewire than USB 2 and 4-pin Firewire.

Anyways, we digress.

dvd · Nov 23, 2002, 08:20 PM

what graphics does the peecee have, and i have no idea about pc procs that much, how much proc cache does teh p4 have?

Cards1 · Nov 23, 2002, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by rm199:
I do 'serious' work in VPC but that doesn't mean I wouldn't lose patience with the 667 if taking it to client sites. The suggestion to get a cheap wintel is a good one.

RM

Based upon this forum, I went ahead and installed Windows XP Pro and Office XP on my 1Ghz PB Superdrive. It actually runs pretty well on it!! Obviously, nothing like the actual hardware, but it is not too bad. I gave the program 256 megs (in VPC) and it just might be fast enough to teach from in a classroom. Of course Photoshop or any other graphics programs would suffer, but Office XP will work nicely.

Eug · Nov 23, 2002, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by Cards1:

Based upon this forum, I went ahead and installed Windows XP Pro and Office XP on my 1Ghz PB Superdrive. It actually runs pretty well on it!! Obviously, nothing like the actual hardware, but it is not too bad. I gave the program 256 megs (in VPC) and it just might be fast enough to teach from in a classroom. Of course Photoshop or any other graphics programs would suffer, but Office XP will work nicely.

I'd suggest turning off ALL the eye candy. It makes it immensely faster. I do just this on one of my PC desktops. In fact turning off all the eye candy makes it look just like Windows 2000 actually. Bland but speedy.

dvd · Nov 23, 2002, 08:50 PM

and you can disable most of the services in windowsxp. which might make it faster, i didnt see a difference though.

Cards1 · Nov 23, 2002, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by dvd:
and you can disable most of the services in windowsxp. which might make it faster, i didnt see a difference though.

Actually, Connectix has a pdf that helps optimize VPC to run faster. Check it out:

http://www.connectix.com/downloadcen...ProandHome.pdf

wallinbl · Nov 23, 2002, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by grey:

he could get a significantly smaller/lighter laptop if all he needed was windows for vb.

I'd like to eventually move away from VB programming, but it's not going to happen overnight. That's why I was asking if I could use VPC in the mean time. If I buy a PC laptop, I'll never force myself to learn to work on the Mac or to find Mac clients.

Nephron · Nov 23, 2002, 10:54 PM

We use RDC at work every day for Microsoft Access development. I also use Windows 2000 on VPC for Microsoft Access as well. It's slow but stable, and for Microsoft Access, it is fast enough.

Cheers!

issa · Nov 23, 2002, 11:01 PM

Posted by Cards1:
Based upon this forum, I went ahead and installed Windows XP Pro and Office XP on my 1Ghz PB Superdrive. It actually runs pretty well on it!!

(While I get a bad taste in my mouth recommending any flavour of Winbloze...) I'd highly recommend passing on all the eye candy completely and running WIN2000 Pro instead. It's noticeably faster under VPC 5.0.4 than even an "optimized" XP and you give up nothing in terms of function and stability. Hate to admit it, but WIN2000 doesn't run all that slowly since moving up to a 1GHz TiBook.

photoeditor · Nov 24, 2002, 01:04 AM

How does Win2K run in 5.0.4 in OS X compared to the latest version of VPC in OS 9? If I ever have to use Windows anything, it would be worth knowing.

(Windows use is less likely to happen to me, though, since I switched from using SPSS statistical software to Stata . . . Stata's Mac support is SO MUCH BETTER than SPSS, besides which it is more powerful, more configurable software anyway. Stata even had their software Carbonized in August 2001; we're STILL WAITING for SPSS 11 for OS X)

issa · Nov 24, 2002, 01:55 AM

posted by photoeditor:
How does Win2K run in 5.0.4 in OS X compared to the latest version of VPC in OS 9?

A single installation of VPC 5.0.4 runs in both OS X and OS 9, which is handy. While it is noticeably faster under OS 9 where it can hog CPU time, it has been doing fairly well in OS X as well since upgrading to the 1GHz PB G4. Wish I could simply erase VPC and WIN, but clients demand some work that forces me to spend more time than I'd like to admit on the dark side. Clients. Can't live with them, and can't go to their offices and beat them over the head with a baseball bat.

DVD Plaza · Nov 24, 2002, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by Chris Gilpin:
I have an iBook and connect through airport to my PIII 500mhz and it runs quite well (set the colour to 24 bit, and i can surf the web faster going through my ibook - wintel compared to just using IE in OS X)

So dump IE, it's such a piece of crap under OSX that one can't help but wonder if it intentionally was written that way.

Install Chimera and enjoy "instant" browsing again