[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

What makes some jobs real and some jobs not?

Well, I'm guessing here, but:

Real job = a good day's pay for a good day's work.
Not a real job = capitalist pigs making money off the backs of innocent proles.

I'm glad I haven't got a real job.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

What makes some jobs real and some jobs not?

In the example we were discussing, if you're in training for your career, and you will soon start your career, you're not in your real job yet. More broadly than that, I don't know.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Of course it's a lot of work. It's just not a real job or career.

Of course it is: when you want to stay in academia, you have to do certain things to make a career out of it (teaching + research + writing publications). You're not working for a company in the free market, but I don't see how this is different from being a school teacher (which is actually easier).

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Of course it is: when you want to stay in academia, you have to do certain things to make a career out of it (teaching + research + writing publications). You're not working for a company in the free market, but I don't see how this is different from being a school teacher (which is actually easier).

No, it's different because you're training for your job; you don't have it yet. The school teacher has the job that they trained for. I spent 6 years making ~$10000/year in grad school. I was in training. Then I got my real job that I was training for.

I'm not really sure why this is a big controversial point. I was simply expressing amazement that someone would spend the time to get 3 PhDs in a row, because they would have spent so much time in training. If they're real PhD programs, which usually require full-time status, the individual would have to be almost middle-aged and not have yet started their real career/their real job/at their full pay/whatever you want to call it. I stand by that, and it turned out that wasn't the case anyway.

[edit] I seem to be working towards a PhD in Thread Derailment, so I'm going to drop out before I finish.

[brassplayersrock²]

so you could say you went from the jv team to the varsity team then?

[ghporter]

To continue the derail only for a moment...

If your planned career is academic, then your grad school work is indeed what your career is; you're IN that profession, but instead of working independently, you're actually an apprentice. And in academe, an apprentice is indeed a working slob that doesn't make beans.

My part of derail over.

ON topic item: how long has it taken folks to get these degrees? I went through high school in the normal period of time (never skipped a grade nor was held back), but it was about 11 years before I got my first associates' degree. About three years later I got my second AAS, four years after that my BS (none of these were independent: I applied stuff that went to each AAS to my BS). After 10 years of not taking a class, I went back to school to get the prerequisites for my masters' program-it took a full year (due to class scheduling) to get the prereqs, and the master's program takes three years. I have mere days left in the second year of that program, with the third being all field and clinical work. So... How long did it take everyone else to get to the degree(s) they have?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

No, it's different because you're training for your job; you don't have it yet.

That's not true, if you plan to stay in academia, it's not job training, it's work experience.

[Atheist]

High School Diploma for me... and rather low in my overall graduation class (like around 200 out of 320). I did some college but dropped out. I was a really sucky student. Hasn't affected my earning potential however. I got into the IT field in the early 80's and back then, the Computer Science degrees were worthless (in my humble opinion). I've taught myself everything I know which is almost mandatory in this field because it changes so rapidly.

[Laminar]

As of next December, I will have my bachelors in Mechanic Engineer in 8 semesters of classes with no transfer credits or summer classes. Not incredibly impressive, but I am in the minority.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

As of next December, I will have my bachelors in Mechanic Engineer in 8 semesters of classes with no transfer credits or summer classes. Not incredibly impressive, but I am in the minority.

Do you mean 7? 8 semesters/2 semesters per year = 4 years which is normal.

I have 8 days left of classes and I will have a BS in CS. Graduation in a may, start work in june

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

Do you mean 7? 8 semesters/2 semesters per year = 4 years which is normal.

I've found that most schools have very useful summer semesters-I got a lot out of the summer of 2005, getting my prereqs. And my current program is full-on, every semester chock-full of required courses (this program is considered a "group-lockstep" model). Working on my first BS, I took classes every summer until my last - working full time AND taking 9-12 hours of classes after work wears you out pretty quickly. But those summer semesters cut my time on campus by a year, so they were worth it.

[SVass]

I received a BSEE in 1960 and worked in the field for many years. My last real job was with experts in Avionics/Airplane design and most of my co-workers had higher degrees and were recognized experts in their fields such as flight controls, aerodynamics, real-time software, etc. Technical learning can extend beyond formal academic training in the proper environment. The academic degree is merely a learner's permit to begin a life-long exercise.

Now, I engage in analysis of yDNA profiles with a group of "amateurs" (retired physicists, geneticists, engineers, anthropologists, etc) attempting to aid in tracing the ascent of humankind. Analytical capability, pattern recognition, and database design are the requisite skills in this endeavor. Working for a living was interesting; but, it should not be the goal. sam

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I've found that most schools have very useful summer semesters-I got a lot out of the summer of 2005, getting my prereqs. And my current program is full-on, every semester chock-full of required courses (this program is considered a "group-lockstep" model). Working on my first BS, I took classes every summer until my last - working full time AND taking 9-12 hours of classes after work wears you out pretty quickly. But those summer semesters cut my time on campus by a year, so they were worth it.

I agree, my school is very strict about transfer credits and hasn't been close to my internships so I haven't been able to take any summer classes.

But he said he didn't take any, which is why i assume he meant 7 semesters, because graduating in 4 years with BS isn't difficult.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

I agree, my school is very strict about transfer credits and hasn't been close to my internships so I haven't been able to take any summer classes.

But he said he didn't take any, which is why i assume he meant 7 semesters, because graduating in 4 years with BS isn't difficult.

Unless it's a 4+ year program. A lot of engineering programs are like that, as was my goddaughter's philosophy program. Technically, my computer science program was considered a 5-year program, but I actually brought a lot of transfer credit with me, so my four years on campus were mostly 3/4 time.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

[edit] I seem to be working towards a PhD in Thread Derailment, so I'm going to drop out before I finish.

ABD, huh? Well, as I understand, you can still practice.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

So... How long did it take everyone else to get to the degree(s) they have?

I have a BSE which took the normal 4 years, and a PhD, which took about 5. By passing my general exams for the PhD, I obtained a MA, which in engineering is not worth the paper it is printed on .

[Amorya]

I have a BSc, which took 3 years, and I'm on my second year of three in my PhD.

Amorya

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Timo 

ABD, huh? Well, as I understand, you can still practice.

My dissertation was going to be "In Before Lock: Derrida, Foucalt, and the Deconstruction of the MacNN Thread." But I think I'll just take my Master's so I can get on with my life.

[MarkLT1]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

My dissertation was going to be "In Before Lock: Derrida, Foucalt, and the Deconstruction of the MacNN Thread." But I think I'll just take my Master's so I can get on with my life.

Plus, you don't want to be "Just another asshole with a PhD" (tm).

[vexborg]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Picking up and moving to Scotland for several years isn't a good idea, at this time.

Or at any time actually, at first you'll like the country, but then, after a while, you'll end up hating the place (speaking from experience)...

Going there on holidays = yes. Living there = never again!

[vexborg]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

What, you mean like calling anyone who’s finished fifth grade ‘Doctor’?

Heh, like Dr. Dr. Herbert Schmidt?

[PlacidTubs]

I'll have a BA in two weeks, if I can get this damn piece I'm working on finished.

[mattyb]

BEng (Hons) Mechanical Engineering. Took me five years to get it. Normal people only take three.

The loans were REALLY low interest OK ?

Then I gave up a job offer at Rolls Royce (Aero Engines) and went into IT.

What an idiot.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by vexborg 

Library and Information Science here.

My step-mom has an MLS. She also has one of those memberships (I dunno what they call them) that allows you to actually use the Library of Congress. Only a few people a year qualify.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

Do you mean 7? 8 semesters/2 semesters per year = 4 years which is normal.

I have 8 days left of classes and I will have a BS in CS. Graduation in a may, start work in june

I meant what I said and I said what I mean DR SEUSS LOL

4 years may be normal for some degrees, but not engineering.

Originally Posted by mattyb 

BEng (Hons) Mechanical Engineering. Took me five years to get it. Normal people only take three.

I'd loooove to know what school that's at. After passing out of the entry level math and english classes, taking only the classes for graduation at 16-19 credits every semester for eight semesters left me with room for exactly ONE class for fun. If I had taken 19-21 credits every semester I MIGHT have been able to knock off almost one semester, but there's no way that ISU's bachelor's program could be completed in 3 years without tons of transfer credits or summer classes.

Then I gave up a job offer at Rolls Royce (Aero Engines) and went into IT.

My uncle is an engineer at Rolls Royce in Ohio, and I often see them at our career fairs.

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I'd loooove to know what school that's at. After passing out of the entry level math and english classes, taking only the classes for graduation at 16-19 credits every semester for eight semesters left me with room for exactly ONE class for fun. If I had taken 19-21 credits every semester I MIGHT have been able to knock off almost one semester, but there's no way that ISU's bachelor's program could be completed in 3 years without tons of transfer credits or summer classes.

I think that depends a lot on the country. In the UK at least, nearly every batchelor's degree is 3 years. A four year undergraduate degree would be a master's. (You can also take a 1 year postgraduate master's degree, if you already have a batchelor's.)

Amorya

[mindwaves]

Arstechnica did a story earlier about why it generally takes a shorter period of time to get a PhD in England as opposed to getting a PhD here in the US. I guess the same applies to bachelors and masters degree also.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Amorya 

I think that depends a lot on the country. In the UK at least, nearly every batchelor's degree is 3 years. A four year undergraduate degree would be a master's. (You can also take a 1 year postgraduate master's degree, if you already have a batchelor's.)

Amorya

Same here. Bachelor’s degrees have been standardised and are all 180 ECTS, i.e., three years. Some bachelor’s degrees (like mine, Chinese) actually take four years because there’s an initial propaedeutic year, but that first year is not technically a part of your degree, though it is listed on your diploma.

(Actually, I thought it wasn’t listed on your diploma, either, but I just checked the student site of my old university, and it does list the first, too, saying that I have a 240 ECTS bachelor’s degree, which is odd. It’s also annoying, though hardly surprising, that, despite handing in my final project in May last year and thus technically graduating as of 30 June 2007, they still haven’t gotten around to actually making my diploma)

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

Arstechnica did a story earlier about why it generally takes a shorter period of time to get a PhD in England as opposed to getting a PhD here in the US. I guess the same applies to bachelors and masters degree also.

Do those schools undergo a similar accreditation process? As in my bachelors in mechanical engineering means the same thing as theirs? To graduate, I need 128.5 credits, where most classes are 3 or 4 credits, minimum required for full time status is 12/semester and average class load is 15-19.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I meant what I said and I said what I mean DR SEUSS LOL

4 years may be normal for some degrees, but not engineering.

I'd loooove to know what school that's at. After passing out of the entry level math and english classes, taking only the classes for graduation at 16-19 credits every semester for eight semesters left me with room for exactly ONE class for fun. If I had taken 19-21 credits every semester I MIGHT have been able to knock off almost one semester, but there's no way that ISU's bachelor's program could be completed in 3 years without tons of transfer credits or summer classes.

Sorry for the mixup. Our schools must be very different.

I actually go to a technical university. We have 7 week long terms. 4 terms a year. You take 3 classes a term for a total of 12 classes a year.

We have 3 projects you need to graduate. A humanities project which which is equal to 1 class. I wrote a paper on Scientific America's coverage of World War 2. Then we have a junior year project which is non major related. 60% of students go abroad. I worked in a group with 3 other students(an ECE, 2 bios) at the British Museum on a project for 7 weeks. That is equal to 3 classes. Then we have a our senior project which is equal to 3 classes. I just completed an eclipse plugin that incorporates the document manager from Sourceforge into eclipse with another student.

I will be graduating with a BS in computer science in about a week, but most of my guy friends are civils, MEs, or ECEs and most of my girl friends are bio/biotechnology with a mix of biomedical engineering in there somewhere.

That said, the only people that don't graduate in 4 years at my university are people that fail too many classes or just don't don't plan well.

[Hawkeye_a]

Bachelors of Science (Computer Science)
Masters of Engineering (Software Engineering)

Contemplating a Phd or MBA.