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olePigeon · Mar 28, 2006, 12:34 PM

I woulda posted this earlier, but MacNN was kaput.

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/GSP/SEM0L6OVGJE_0.html

This is perhaps one of the most important discoveries and will certainly lead to some absolutely fantastic technology! If it is established by peer review, it will completely change our world. It'll turn general relativity and quantum mechanics on its head.

The ESA had funded some really smart people and the results is (they believe) a measurable amount of gravitoelectric fields produced outside of a non-magnetic superconductor (it's made a special material that's doesn't produce a magnetic field at certain temperatures.)

The reason I put gravity in quotes is because it doesn't actually make artificial gravity. Gravity, after all, is just curvature in spacetime. What these fields can do is accent space time so that objects will "fall" towards or away from the superconductor. It'll make the curvature deeper so objects will attract, or it'll make a "bump" and objects will push away.

This is really wild, and just absolutely amazing. The guys doing the test didn't believe it themselves, but they ran over 250 tests, upgraded the equipment in the lab 3 times, and validated the results for over 8 months before even making a decision to talk about it publicly.

Dakar · Mar 28, 2006, 12:40 PM

Awesome.

Dark Helmet · Mar 28, 2006, 12:41 PM

Did aliens help?

von Wrangell · Mar 28, 2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Awesome.

What he said.

olePigeon · Mar 28, 2006, 01:49 PM

Kinda figured this would get a little more attention. I mean, artificial gravity guys. Real flying cars. Force fields that would stop bullets and missiles.

This is straight outta sci-fi, it's so cool.

Jim Paradise · Mar 28, 2006, 01:55 PM

Bloody incredible stuff, olePigeon. I'm surprised that this hasn't been on any of the news sites I've been to today.

Ozmodiar · Mar 28, 2006, 01:57 PM

Would a force field really do much good against a missile? I mean, yeah, it would be great to stop bullets and stuff but I think the heat from the explosion of a warhead would still get to you.

PookJP · Mar 28, 2006, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

Would a force field really do much good against a missile? I mean, yeah, it would be great to stop bullets and stuff but I think the heat from the explosion of a warhead would still get to you.

Good point. Call the entire project off. Either it can allow me to withstand a direct missile attack unscathed or it doesn't deserve to exist in the first place.

Obi Wan's Ghost · Mar 28, 2006, 02:10 PM

When my enemies get hold of it I'm in big trouble.

Chuckit · Mar 28, 2006, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

Would a force field really do much good against a missile? I mean, yeah, it would be great to stop bullets and stuff but I think the heat from the explosion of a warhead would still get to you.

Not if the warhead wound up exploding in the middle of the ocean.

besson3c · Mar 28, 2006, 03:17 PM

I hope the terrorists don't get a hold of this...

turtle777 · Mar 28, 2006, 03:24 PM

Finally.

Can't wait to get a 17" notebook that ways less than 1 pound

-t

Dakar · Mar 28, 2006, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

When my enemies get hold of it I'm in big trouble.

His Dudeness · Mar 28, 2006, 04:07 PM

So will this thing conflict with my Flux Capacitor or what?

Ratm · Mar 28, 2006, 04:09 PM

^^^^^ of course

And to the poster -*Cool*-

iLikebeer · Mar 28, 2006, 09:16 PM

You missed out on what's really cool about this. The anti-gravity angle is good for publicity, but the field they created was only like 1/1000000 the force of gravity on earth. This isn't the anti-gravity you're looking for.

What this is though, is a way for them to be able to actually test theories between general relativity and quantum mechanics. Hopefully this could help lead to some kind of unified theory and be that first REAL step towards one day being able to figure out more of the everything we don't know....and get artificial gravity.

This is awesome though.

analogika · Mar 28, 2006, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

This isn't the anti-gravity you're looking for.

</obi-wan>

Chuckit · Mar 28, 2006, 09:23 PM

Actually, the field they detected was 100/1000000 (more simply, 1/10000) of earth's gravity. And that doesn't mean there couldn't be more powerful fields.

iLikebeer · Mar 28, 2006, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Actually, the field they detected was 100/1000000 (more simply, 1/10000) of earth's gravity. And that doesn't mean there couldn't be more powerful fields.

Between this thread and the flying car thread, I'll give you credit for being an extreme technology optimist. But I think this kind of sensationalizing gives more power to the crowd that doesn't like to spend money on science because it won't come to anything in our lifetime. In 20 years, people will be pointing to this saying they promised us artificial gravity, moonbases, fusion, and all that other stuff.

I'm not one of the few hundred people on the planet that's smart enough to say what this will or won't lead to. But from what I've read, the exciting thing about this is the ability for those few hundred people to use this to test new theories and come up with the next generation of breakthroughs.

JoshuaZ · Mar 28, 2006, 10:02 PM

Does this mean that the Chinese will soon take over space? Nothing like the threat of Space Commies.

forkies · Mar 28, 2006, 10:02 PM

because the experiments took place on earth, does that diminish the strength of the force that was created? in other words, if the same thing was done in space, would it be stronger?

Y3a · Mar 28, 2006, 10:37 PM

If it is warping space-time the effect will be the same. I can't wait for them to make a saucer shape out of 100,000,000 of 'em so they can try that Warp Speed stuff! The problem will be to move the saucer 100 miles. It will consume 150 times the energy that the sun produces in 500 centuries!

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 12:27 AM

I don't get it? Is this something new? I thought we are capable of creating artifical gravity already. Magnetism and gravity are related. You can use electricity to create an electromagnet. We can use magnets to create electricity. Why can't you use electricity to create gravity? Didn't know that was new.

Psychonaut · Mar 29, 2006, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I hope the terrorists don't get a hold of this...

I hope governments don't get a hold of this...

jamil5454 · Mar 29, 2006, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

I don't get it? Is this something new? I thought we are capable of creating artifical gravity already. Magnetism and gravity are related. You can use electricity to create an electromagnet. We can use magnets to create electricity. Why can't you use electricity to create gravity? Didn't know that was new.

The two are completely unrelated. One deals with electrons while the other deals with space-time.

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 01:39 AM

Dude, space-time is the 4th dimension. Gravity is the force between two mass. Mass from protons, neutrons, and electrons.

I don't buy the theory gravity can bend the space-time continuim.

iLikebeer · Mar 29, 2006, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

I don't get it? Is this something new? I thought we are capable of creating artifical gravity already. Magnetism and gravity are related. You can use electricity to create an electromagnet. We can use magnets to create electricity. Why can't you use electricity to create gravity? Didn't know that was new.

Um.....no.
Think about this hard now. Does a magnet stick to your head? Not unless you have a metal plate in there. To simplify this, you're not attractive to magnets, so then why don't you float away from the earth?! Anti-gravity! I'll let you think about that for a bit.

Ozmodiar · Mar 29, 2006, 01:56 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Magnetism and gravity are related.

They're not. Well not any more related than apples and aardvarks. Magnetism and electricity are components of the electromagnetic force, which is why a current can induce a magnetic field and vice versa. Also, the electromagnetic force is much, much stronger than the gravitational force.

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Um.....no.
Think about this hard now. Does a magnet stick to your head? Not unless you have a metal plate in there. To simplify this, you're not attractive to magnets, so then why don't you float away from the earth?! Anti-gravity! I'll let you think about that for a bit.

Um... dude. Your thinking is simplistic. The whole article was about finding the relationship between gravity, electricity, and magnetism.

Electricity, magnetism, and gravity are related. That's why they are study together in physics. You can you magnets to generate electricity. Use electricity to create a magnet. The article just closes the loop between the three. You can use electricity to create gravity.

iLikebeer · Mar 29, 2006, 02:20 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Um... dude. Your thinking is simplistic. The whole article was about finding the relationship between gravity, electricity, and magnetism.

Electricity, magnetism, and gravity are related. That's why they are study together in physics. You can you magnets to generate electricity. Use electricity to create a magnet. The article just closes the loop between the three. You can use electricity to create gravity.

Really? Compared to your complete lack of knowledge on the subject shown here: "I don't get it? Is this something new? I thought we are capable of creating artifical gravity already. Magnetism and gravity are related. You can use electricity to create an electromagnet. We can use magnets to create electricity. Why can't you use electricity to create gravity? Didn't know that was new."
I was just replying to your absolute wrongness there before others got excited and added to it.

wataru · Mar 29, 2006, 02:21 AM

You all need to go take a physics class.

According to current theory, magnetism and gravity are, for all intents and purposes, unrelated. However, as indicated by the incompatibilities between quantum mechanics and general relativity, current theory is wrong about something, but we don't know what exactly.

The supposed connection between gravity and magnetism is this: All forces (strong, weak, electromagnetic, and gravity) can be formulated as being mediated by some kind of particle. For the electromagnetic force, that's photons. For gravity, that's the theoretical graviton. Supposedly, at very high field strengths, the photons that mediate the magnetic force can take on the same properties as gravitons are hypothesized to have. These are then called "photogravitons."

hyteckit: Yes, this is new. Very new. And no, space-time is not the "4th dimension." Time is the 4th dimension, and general relativity describes gravity as warping space-time, thus accounting for the force between two masses. This is not obvious; you need to go back and look at your physics textbook, because you're clearly not remembering things correctly.

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

They're not. Well not any more related than apples and aardvarks. Magnetism and electricity are components of the electromagnetic force, which is why a current can induce a magnetic field and vice versa. Also, the electromagnetic force is much, much stronger than the gravitational force.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov

I seen it done over 10 years ago. Antigravity semiconductor. Nothing new.

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by wataru

You all need to go take a physics class.

According to current theory, magnetism and gravity are, for all intents and purposes, unrelated. However, as indicated by the incompatibilities between quantum mechanics and general relativity, current theory is wrong about something, but we don't know what exactly.

The supposed connection between gravity and magnetism is this: All forces (strong, weak, electromagnetic, and gravity) can be formulated as being mediated by some kind of particle. For the electromagnetic force, that's photons. For gravity, that's the theoretical graviton. Supposedly, at very high field strengths, the photons that mediate the magnetic force can take on the same properties as gravitons are hypothesized to have. These are then called "photogravitons."

hyteckit: Yes, this is new. Very new. And no, space-time is not the "4th dimension." Time is the 4th dimension, and general relativity describes gravity as warping space-time, thus accounting for the force between two masses. This is not obvious; you need to go back and look at your physics textbook, because you're clearly not remembering things correctly.

Nothing new. Seen it done over 10 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov

4th dimension is about bending space and time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...=Google+Search

wataru · Mar 29, 2006, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov

I seen it done over 10 years ago. Antigravity semiconductor. Nothing new.

Uh, sure, controversial work that was completely unverified until 2006? Yeah, you're real up on your science there.

"4th dimension" is not about bending space and time. Time is the fourth dimension, as formulated by general relativity. Have you ever actually studied physics at all?

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by wataru

Uh, sure, controversial work that was completely unverified until 2006? Yeah, you're real up on your science there.

"4th dimension" is not about bending space and time. Time is the fourth dimension, as formulated by general relativity. Have you ever actually studied physics at all?

Um.. dude. The 4th dimension adds the time component. But anyone who studies physics knows the 4th dimension is about the study of space-time.

From the wiki page:
-------------
In physics, spacetime is a model that combines 3-D space and 1-D time into a single construct called the space-time continuum (in which time plays the role of the 4th dimension)
-----------------

iLikebeer · Mar 29, 2006, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Um.. dude. The 4th dimension adds the time component. But anyone who studies physics knows the 4th dimension is about the study of space-time.

From the wiki page:
-------------
In physics, spacetime is a model that combines 3-D space and 1-D time into a single construct called the space-time continuum (in which time plays the role of the 4th dimension)
-----------------

QUICK! Someone edit the wiki page to say hyteckit is an idiot and can't use this page. Then see what his argument is for his ignorance!

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 02:49 AM

wataru,

I've seen it done IN PERSON over 10 years ago. Nothing new.

Here's some FAQ.

http://www.electrogravityphysics.com/html/faq.html

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 02:50 AM

I really don't know why this is new to you guys?

It done long time ago. Nothing new here.

iLikebeer · Mar 29, 2006, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

wataru,

I've seen it done IN PERSON over 10 years ago. Nothing new.

Here's some FAQ.

http://www.electrogravityphysics.com/html/faq.html

If you're talking about the magnet hovering over the superconductor in liquid nitrogen that everyone saw in high school physics, then this has nothing to do with that. If you're talking about the Russian that made similar claims in the mid 90's, you'll notice they were quick and concise in separating their experiment from his claims.

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 03:37 AM

Grand Unification Theory

Attempts to unified gravity with electricity and magnetism; To show that they are all related. The research shows that they are related. You guys are arguing with me that they are not related while I'm just agreeing with the article? You guys even know what the article says?

Here's a simple graph for those who don't grasp the concepts.

CharlesS · Mar 29, 2006, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Grand Unification Theory

Attempts to unified gravity with electricity and magnetism; To show that they are all related. The research shows that they are related. You guys are arguing with me that they are not related while I'm just agreeing with the article? You guys even know what the article says?

Nah, up until now it's been that they should be related somehow, but that scientists couldn't figure out how that would be. If these guys in the article are correct, they may have made a first step in being able to relate gravity to the other field forces. If this were the case, it would hardly be "nothing new here."

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 04:00 AM

Yes, a number of theory on unifying Gravity with Electricity and Magnetism. Most physicist are trying to unify gravity with electricity and magnetism. They are all trying to show the relationship.

Here's some good videos on Gravity and Electro-Magnetism.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

Watch "A New Picture of Gravity".

"Einstein's success in explaining gravity as warps and curves in the fabric of space and time set him on a quest to unify gravity with electricity and magnetism."

Chuckit · Mar 29, 2006, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

Between this thread and the flying car thread, I'll give you credit for being an extreme technology optimist.

The flying car thread? I think you've confused me with somebody else.

CharlesS · Mar 29, 2006, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

The flying car thread? I think you've confused me with somebody else.

You built up some bad karma by confusing me with someone else in the stealing bandwidth thread.

Chuckit · Mar 29, 2006, 05:13 AM

Hey, that ain't fair. I just transposed your reply with euchomai's right next to it. I didn't even post in the flying car thread. Guess I'll have to take it up with the Buddha…

dtriska · Mar 29, 2006, 05:16 AM

I don't think hyteckit is getting it.

wataru is right.

Originally Posted by hyteckit

I don't buy the theory gravity can bend the space-time continuim [sic].

You reject general relativity? Good to know.

forkies · Mar 29, 2006, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

this ms paint diagram just blew my mind

hyteckit · Mar 29, 2006, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by dtriska

You reject general relativity? Good to know.

It just doesn't explain everything. Einstein failed to unified gravity with electricity and magnetism, and establish the relationship between each one. There are other theories emerging - quantum mechanics and string theory.

Again, check out the PBS link I provided in a post above.

Check out your good friend at wikipedia on General Relativity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity

"On the other hand, general relativity is inconsistent with quantum mechanics, and the singularities of black holes also raise some disconcerting issues. So at the same time as it is accepted, there is also a sense that there may well be something beyond Einstein's theory still yet to be found."

olePigeon · Mar 29, 2006, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

You missed out on what's really cool about this. The anti-gravity angle is good for publicity, but the field they created was only like 1/1000000 the force of gravity on earth. This isn't the anti-gravity you're looking for.

I mentioned that. It's not really gravity at all since it doesn't warp spacetime, it's a force that can make "magnets" out of anything that does produce gravity. Even though it's just barely measureable, the technology will grow. A few years ago the thought of a fusion power plant was incredible. We now have several working prototypes and a full-scale prototype being built in France. We have the vital processes of our own sun contained and harnessed. That's just absolutely amazing.

I'm sure it's just a matter of time before the research results in superconductors that can produce a field strong enough to be relative to whatever it's attracting/repelling. Or, as you mentioned, perhaps it'll result in the discovery of gravitrons and anti-gravitons.

(unlikely, I think Einstein was right on gravity just being warped spacetime.)

Originally Posted by iLikebeer

What this is though, is a way for them to be able to actually test theories between general relativity and quantum mechanics. Hopefully this could help lead to some kind of unified theory and be that first REAL step towards one day being able to figure out more of the everything we don't know....and get artificial gravity.

I didn't miss it.

Originally Posted by olePigeon

If it is established by peer review, it will completely change our world. It'll turn general relativity and quantum mechanics on its head.

olePigeon · Mar 29, 2006, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

It just doesn't explain everything. Einstein failed to unified gravity with electricity and magnetism, and establish the relationship between each one. There are other theories emerging - quantum mechanics and string theory.

The Unified Theory has been elusive. We have equations that can relate any two to each other, but not all three. But then you get to the quantum level and you discover that a simple Unified Theory may be impossible.

If you wanna see scientists fight, bring up String Theory. It's as bad as the MacNN Political forum.