[Laminar]

Wife caught a wild hair and decided to do a solar consultation. We have a couple of neighbors with systems and frequently see ads for solar with "no money out of pocket." We ended up getting quotes from three different places. Here's what I learned:
- Most places size the system to replace 80-100% of your current electrical usage.
- My house has west-facing and east-facing roofs, so I'd need panels on both to get coverage throughout the day
- The solar panels are usually under warranty for 30 years, but at a reduced level of output each year
- The inverters have a 10 year warranty and expected life of 10-15 years

Here's what one of the vendors put together for us:




And the money. This is where it gets shifty. The "cash price" for the above system is $38k. There's also currently a federal tax incentive of 30% of the total solar system cost, so after that it would be about $27k out of pocket. We spend about $1600/year on electricity so it would take about 16 years for the system to pay for itself. Okay that's fine.

But most people don't just want to blast off $38k in cash, which is where the "zero out of pocket" deals come in. The cash price for the above system is $38k. But if you finance, it's an unsecured loan, so terms aren't super favorable. Their goal is that the monthly payment on the loan is roughly what you're saving each month on electricity, so the loan term is usually 25 years at 4-5% interest depending on who's offering.

We're not sure we're going to go for it. It's an investment with a long ROI, and putting that money toward, say, a new kitchen would make a bigger daily impact.

Anyone else done solar?

[andi*pandi]

I have thought of it but our house is surrounded by trees that would need to come down for effective sun hours. With that investment the kitchen, roof, windows, and paint would come first. There is also the consideration that our kids are presumably out of the house in 10 years and who knows if we will stay? So a 25 year investment seems like a lot.

[reader50]

The rule of thumb on appliance upgrades (for energy saving) is they should pay for themselves within 5 years. If it takes longer, you're making the call on features rather than economics.

I can see going longer on a capital improvement to your home. But I wouldn't go past 10 years, as you likely need to replace the inverters then anyway. Along with declining solar output that will have you buying juice by then for most of the year. 25 years? Probably when you have to replace the panels. You'd be paid off right around when the system is worth peanuts.

Doing it on time means your asset isn't entirely yours. Go to sell the house, and you either pay the system off out of pocket first, or have it removed, or explain things to prospective buyers.

The cost of lithium batteries is dropping rapidly. Not sure if your quote includes storage, but that part will be cheaper in a few years.
The panels are continuing to drop slowly, while efficiency continues to go up slowly. Panels become a better deal with time too.
Inverter cost probably won't change much, while install labor may go up (inflation) or down (larger pre-assembly and/or robotics).

Overall, it's a bad deal. Your annual power usage is marginal for a solar upgrade. I'd wait a few years and recheck the numbers. Or look into doing the install yourself, if you're handy enough. And comfy applying for permits.

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by reader50 

The rule of thumb on appliance upgrades (for energy saving) is they should pay for themselves within 5 years.

Given that modern appliances are engineered for a roughly 7-year lifespan, that’s cutting it close.

I’ve thought about solar a lot. We have a long, south-facing roof with an unobstructed view. The options are a bit confusing. There’s also the bit about having to remove the panels when you do any roofing work, which is more-or-less like doing another complete install.

[subego]

Tangentially related: since I buy a lot of Anker products, they floated their solar rechargeable giant battery, and I totally want one.

This despite having no use for it whatsoever.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Given that modern appliances are engineered for a roughly 7-year lifespan, that’s cutting it close.

I’ve thought about solar a lot. We have a long, south-facing roof with an unobstructed view. The options are a bit confusing. There’s also the bit about having to remove the panels when you do any roofing work, which is more-or-less like doing another complete install.

Yeah. My next-door neighbour’s son owns a solar panel business. So she has them. She is able to return to the grid and gets several hundred $$ a month from our power company.

But they do recommend either doing the roof at the same time or having it recently done. I’ve already been putting that off for a couple years and hoping to squeeze a few more years out of mine, so it’s a bit of a double whammy. Hopefully the newer EV platforms and home integration also continues to improve and perhaps in 4-5 years there’s more of a seamless integration between solar, home storage, car & grid.

[MacNNFamous]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Anyone else done solar?

Yes.

38k is steep as fuck, and like everything else in life, you can build it yourself for a metric shit ton less money. First off, unless you are space constrained, it makes way more sense to purchase used commercial panels. Use panels typically put out 95% of what htey are rated for, even with cosmetic flaws. I found some local 250 watt panels, for under $100 each. You can get stuff even cheaper from here:

https://www.santansolar.com/product-.../solar-panels/

Honestly, the panels themselves are going to be the cheapest part of the whole system, the most expense is going to be your batteries. But again, tons of ways to save money. Lots of newer companies putting out lithium ion batteris with built in BMS.

For charging/inverting, I highly recommend victron components. Victron is a premium brand, with a premium price, BUT, you get FREE access to all your data through VRM

https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...monitoring/vrm

This allows you to make sure everything is working correctly, optimize stuff, and do so from anywhere in the world. Other companies like Renogy want to keep your data behind a paywall, which is just infuriating. I also had problesm keeping my batteries charged until I switched to victron, Renogy is just chinese shit with a wannabe apple-esque user friendly vibe, but it's not actually done well.

You are pretty capable in terms of your skillsets, so I'd suggest you make an account over at https://diysolarforum.com/ and start asking questions.

The first thing you're going to need to do is an energy audit of your home, to see how much you use/day. Then you're going to need to figure out how many panels you'll need. And then, finally, you need to calculate the amount of low sun/grey days you get in a row, to size your battery bank appropriately. As an example, here is chicago, scroll down to 'cloud cover'. Your battery bank will need to hold you over however many days you want to go without using grid power.

[MacNNFamous]

One other thing, I would not do roof mounted panels. Your roof, as you stated, faces the wrong way. Do a big array, facing south.

I want to add I don't think it's worth it unless you live in area that is very sunny, alot of the time. In Wisconsin we get like 6 months of grey skies for winter so I don't feel it's worth it up here. My other place gets a ton of sun, so I am 100% off grid.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by MacNNFamous 

Yes.

38k is steep as fuck

The first quote was more like $72k. No plans to go with batteries and no space for an off-roof array, if our city code would even allow that.

I asked my wife if we were going to spend that kind of money on the house, would she prefer solar or a new kitchen? She answered very quickly, "Kitchen." The benefit to doing it now is capturing the 30% tax incentive that may go away depending on who wins in 2024. But either way I think there are better places to spend money on the house.

[MacNNFamous]

IMHO, solar only makes sense in certain parts of the country. Southwest is AMAZING for solar because it's so sunny, so often. I think you live in Iowa or some other midwest state and I wouldn't do it. I'd buy more old euro/jdm cars instead, much better ROI.