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lpkmckenna · Mar 5, 2007, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by MasonMcD

Maybe you can't see it, but the spaces windows are blue-grey, and spaces window number 1 is illuminated from behind sort of as the Apple logo is in the MacWorld San Francisco tease poster:

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/reso.../01/tease1.jpg

New color scheme, illuminated from behind when selected. Maybe that doesn't say anything to you. Dunno.

It appears you may be correct. Look at the hightlighted selection in that Spotlight sidebar: the text looks "illuminated" from behind.

Maybe "Illuminous" is real?

Frankly, I'd prefer they went with the "glossy black" selection method we see in iTunes 7. I'm kinda bored with the "aqua blue" selection colors we've been seeing for 6 years.

kmkkid · Mar 6, 2007, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

It appears you may be correct. Look at the hightlighted selection in that Spotlight sidebar: the text looks "illuminated" from behind.

Maybe "Illuminous" is real?

Frankly, I'd prefer they went with the "glossy black" selection method we see in iTunes 7. I'm kinda bored with the "aqua blue" selection colors we've been seeing for 6 years.

Yeah, they way they've added a white stroke around selected icon and text could very well mean at least black/dark highlights.

Chuckit · 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

It appears you may be correct. Look at the hightlighted selection in that Spotlight sidebar: the text looks "illuminated" from behind.

It's pretty much the same blue highlight I'm looking at around this text field in Safari 2.0, only it's on text with a dark blue background.

It occurs to me that there are no occasions where such an effect appears in the current standard UI, so I whipped up a quick 30-second example app just to show how similar it is to the highlight that we see on controls.

monkeybrain · Mar 6, 2007, 10:39 AM

Turn on full keyboard access and you can see that blue selection glow on almost any element. It could just be the user of Leopard has this on, and has used the keyboard to select the text in the sidebar.

lpkmckenna · Mar 6, 2007, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

Turn on full keyboard access and you can see that blue selection glow on almost any element. It could just be the user of Leopard has this on, and has used the keyboard to select the text in the sidebar.

If you can select text like that in Leopard, that would be new. You can't do that in Tiger.

I WAS the One · Mar 6, 2007, 10:38 PM

I don't know if you think like I do, but every video of Leopard that I found on google or youtube it shows the Finder with features that PathFinder offer since it debut. If that what I will get with Leopard, forget about it. I can show you where you can get, multiple desktops, iChat live effects, smart backups, email templates and notes applications for Macs right now! do you want a better Finder? try Pathfinder. I need to see MORE. and I mean something really eye-candy and functional, if Vista looks like Tiger already, it will be dumb to let Leopard look like Tiger. I mean, a new GUI and a couple of out of this world features will make me upgrade, but right now... I'm not impress. it is like the iPhone showcase, when Steve introduce it I was killing to get one and buy one... but right now I'm thinking: do I really need one? NOPE. so, go ahead and bring us the leopard we all want, Apple... but hurry up!

onlyone-jc · Mar 7, 2007, 09:31 AM

Leopard will bring Time Machine, Core Animation, and 64bit processing. That's enough for me.

I just hope they don't go and spoil the GUI. If they change it, I hope they do it extremely well. This is Apple, so they should do.

Chuckit · Mar 7, 2007, 10:49 AM

I'm really trying to understand why people think OS X so desperately needs more stupid eyecandy and they'll be severely disappointed if there isn't a significant increase in the number of dancing paperclips, but I'm drawing a blank.

besson3c · Mar 7, 2007, 11:05 AM

I really think it will take years before Core Animation has any meaningful and positive impact on our overall computing experience, if at all. The jury is still out as to how well Time Machine works, there is a lot up in the air, it is foolish to just assume it will be the ideal solution for you in every way as your primary means of backup, IMHO.

monkeybrain · Mar 7, 2007, 11:53 AM

Actually I think Apple are very hit-and-miss with interfaces. Just look at not only the different styles but the way they update almost parts of Aqua but have left other bits as the same as in 10.0 (like scrollbars). If we are seeing a new interface (which I think basically refers to a redesigned Finder, other than just some new widgets), it will be version 1.0 and probably have a few holes in it.

Chuckit · Mar 7, 2007, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

The jury is still out as to how well Time Machine works, there is a lot up in the air, it is foolish to just assume it will be the ideal solution for you in every way as your primary means of backup, IMHO.

I've yet to find any ideal solution for backing up. Time Machine sounds better than anything else for general use so far.

besson3c · Mar 7, 2007, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I've yet to find any ideal solution for backing up. Time Machine sounds better than anything else for general use so far.

It (per-file revision control) is one approach to the problem. I agree it looks good, but we don't know whether it will keep complete copies of binary files for each revision (I hope it doesn't), how it will handle running out of disk space, how it performs, how flexible it is in handling exclusions, etc. It also doesn't provide a solution for those who need complete snapshots of their entire home directory, for some reason.

Simon · Mar 7, 2007, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

It also doesn't provide a solution for those who need complete snapshots of their entire home directory, for some reason.

True, but that problem was already solved by another tool.
ditto -rsrcFork ~ /Volumes/FWBackupDisk/

besson3c · Mar 7, 2007, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

True, but that problem was already solved by another tool.
ditto -rsrcFork ~ /Volumes/FWBackupDisk/

True, and there are several other tools that do this too...

I'm just saying it probably isn't wise to make assumptions that Time Machine will fulfill all promises, for now it's vaporware.

Simon · Mar 7, 2007, 05:19 PM

Umm, no. It's a previewed part of Leopard and currently still in development. Obviously you can't judge it yet. And for the record, it isn't a backup solution either.

monkeybrain · Mar 8, 2007, 11:36 AM

What on earth is it, if it isn't a backup solution?

besson3c · Mar 8, 2007, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

What on earth is it, if it isn't a backup solution?

Revision control.

Technically a backup is a complete copy you could use on any other system supporting your backup file system and data formats used to save your files. You could not, for instance, give the Time Machine revision database to somebody running Tiger and expect it to be terribly useful.

Chuckit · Mar 8, 2007, 11:42 AM

But you could give it to somebody running Leopard and expect it to be terribly useful, couldn't you? Saying Time Machine isn't a backup is like saying TAR isn't for backing up because, hey, maybe somebody somewhere is running some odd system that can't unarchive tarballs.

besson3c · Mar 8, 2007, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

But you could give it to somebody running Leopard and expect it to be terribly useful, couldn't you? Saying Time Machine isn't a backup is like saying TAR isn't for backing up because, hey, maybe somebody somewhere is running some odd system that can't unarchive tarballs.

I don't know if you could. My hunch is that you'd have to provide the user with both the actual file along with the revision database if they wish to backpeddle. I wouldn't imagine that the revision database would yield a working copy of the file all on its own, but this is all idle speculation.

A wise man once said something about counting your chickens before they hatch, except of course in our case we aren't dealing with chickens.

Simon · Mar 8, 2007, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

A wise man once said something about counting your chickens before they hatch, except of course in our case we aren't dealing with chickens.

Indeed.

TETENAL · Mar 8, 2007, 12:00 PM

I think Apple should know best what Time Machine is.

You back up your system regularly, right? Well, you would. If you had a better way to do it. With Mac OS X Leopard and Time Machine, not only can you back up and preserve everything on your Mac — including priceless digital photos, music, movies, and documents — without lifting a finger, you can go back in time to recover anything you’ve ever backed up.

Set it, then forget it
The first time you attach an external drive to a Mac running Mac OS X Leopard, Time Machine asks if you’d like to back up to that drive. Set up the drive and Time Machine takes care of everything else, automatically, in the background, so you can get on with your digital life.

Back up everything
Right from the start, Time Machine in Mac OS X Leopard makes a complete backup of all the files on your system. That includes your system files, applications, accounts, preferences, music, photos, movies, documents — everything you keep on your Mac. As you make changes, Time Machine only backs up what changes, all the while maintaining a comprehensive layout of your system. That way, Time Machine minimizes the space required on your backup device. Since backups are stored on your device by date, you can browse through your entire system as it appeared on any date. And that’s what makes Time Machine different from any backup application you’ve ever tried.

Go back in time
With Time Machine, you can restore your whole system from any past backups and peruse the past with ease. Can’t find a file you want? Enter Time Machine’s time-based browser to see a snapshot of how your entire system looked on any given day — file by file. When you find the file you want, just select it and restore it. Time Machine brings it into the present. You can do the same with a group of files, whole folders, even your entire system. With a single click.

from: Apple - Apple - Mac OS X - Leopard Sneak Peek - Time Machine

besson3c · Mar 8, 2007, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I think Apple should know best what Time Machine is.

Apple also says they support the Enterprise

Apple has been sloppy in their use of marketing language in the past (as have many other companies), so as far as I'm concerned this means nothing until we can actually get our hands on this product to verify this.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 8, 2007, 12:14 PM

Time machine is a nice idea but it looks even more confusing to use than Spotlight is.

Chuckit · Mar 8, 2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Apple also says they support the Enterprise

And for most definitions of the extraordinarily fuzzy term "enterprise," they do.

Originally Posted by besson3c

Apple has been sloppy in their use of marketing language in the past (as have many other companies), so as far as I'm concerned this means nothing until we can actually get our hands on this product to verify this.

Apple Developer Connection - Membership - ADC Select Membership

JonoMarshall · Mar 9, 2007, 05:44 AM

Guessing you've all read this but:

Turn the next big thing from Apple into the next big thing from you.
At WWDC, you'll work hands-on with the latest developer tools, learn best practices for choosing and using the latest APIs and make the most of the new technologies, cutting-edge graphics capabilities, and enhanced features in Mac OS X Leopard. The session tracks at WWDC are designed to show you how to harness these features to create awesome user interfaces, improve the performance of your application, and create the ultimate customer experience on the road to developing your killer Leopard application. source

Sounds like Leopard could be introducing some major user-based changes? Or am I just clutching at straws?

Chuckit · Mar 9, 2007, 10:45 AM

They've already announced several technologies for creating the user interface (assuming that's what you mean by "user-based changes").

Simon · Mar 9, 2007, 11:29 AM

What do you guys mean with "user-based changes" and "creating the interface"? Are we talking skinning or are we talking Interface Builder modifications here?

monkeybrain · Mar 9, 2007, 12:32 PM

I'd like it to be true, but I think it's probably just marketing-babble.

Chuckit · Mar 9, 2007, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

What do you guys mean with "user-based changes" and "creating the interface"? Are we talking skinning or are we talking Interface Builder modifications here?

I'm not sure what "user-based changes" means, but I was talking about technologies that developers can use in designing and implementing their interface. Some of these changes are in Interface Builder. Other examples: Core Animation, Core Text, the resolution independence APIs. All of these fall under the heading of "technologies that can help you create awesome user interfaces." I've heard people hint at other shiny new technologies as well, but I don't know about those.

Face Ache · Mar 9, 2007, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

New appearance? Count on it. I don't expect earth-shattering changes (other than some clever UI animations), but some elements will vanish: Goodbye to brushed-metal, blue-gel scrollers, and streetlight-colored window controls.

I'm hoping that lonely little black Dashboard button in Safari 3 gets company.

He looks outta place there. Black is the new black IMO.

I noticed they ripped off one of their new screensavers from my sig.

----->

But don't worry - Face Ache Legal is onto it.

Chuckit · Mar 9, 2007, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Face Ache

I'm hoping that lonely little black Dashboard button in Safari 3 gets company.

He looks outta place there. Black is the new black IMO.

It's just a zoomed-in version of the Dashboard icon. Might be a temp. Does look out-of-place, though.

Face Ache · Mar 9, 2007, 11:04 PM

The Great Facetrodamus predicts there shall come a time of much white on black, and black on white. And there shall be shades between that are coloured yet not coloured. And there shall be zooming for the sake of zooming. The time approacheth when the front is behind and the many shall look back and say "Wow!" For although the False King hadst proclaimed that the wow starteth now, it had not. In the unknown hour there shall be rejoicing amongst the pasty ones.

Edit: And there shall be one more thing...

blackbird_1.0 · Mar 9, 2007, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Face Ache

The Great Facetrodamus predicts there shall come a time of much white on black, and black on white. And there shall be shades between that are coloured yet not coloured. And there shall be zooming for the sake of zooming. The time approacheth when the front is behind and the many shall look back and say "Wow!" For although the False King hadst proclaimed that the wow starteth now, it had not. In the unknown hour there shall be rejoicing amongst the pasty ones.

Edit: And there shall be one more thing...

xe0 · Mar 10, 2007, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by JonoMarshall

[..]harness these features to create awesome user interfaces[..]

Sounds like Leopard could be introducing some major user-based changes?
Or am I just clutching at straws?

Two words.

Multi touch.

TETENAL · Mar 10, 2007, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by xe0

Multi touch.

Good luck trying that with one mouse.

monkeybrain · Mar 10, 2007, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It's just a zoomed-in version of the Dashboard icon. Might be a temp. Does look out-of-place, though.

I don't think it's a temp, it's actually included in Tiger's Safari too, but just doesn't do anything. But maybe they'll change all the buttons. A unified Safari with black buttons like that could be quite nice, I've always found the white buttons of Safari to look boring if it is unified.

Chuckit · Mar 10, 2007, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by xe0

Two words.

Multi touch.

It doesn't seem like there's nearly enough time for that, considering they just put out the ad for the guy who would do it. Maybe in whatever's after Leopard.

Simon · Mar 10, 2007, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by monkeybrain

I don't think it's a temp, it's actually included in Tiger's Safari too, but just doesn't do anything. But maybe they'll change all the buttons. A unified Safari with black buttons like that could be quite nice, I've always found the white buttons of Safari to look boring if it is unified.

Isn't it just the button to select part of a web page in order to make a dashboard widget out of it?

Aron Peterson · Mar 10, 2007, 03:40 PM

Multitouch for desktop and laptop computing is ways away. It's an iPhone and Tablet thing until large screens will be scratch and fingerprint proof. On portable devices those are too be expected but they are a pain in the arse for desktops and laptops.

austinh · Mar 12, 2007, 02:23 AM

Will Leopard run fine on a 1.83ghz C2D macbook with 2gb of ram? The only reason I ask this is because I'm coming from the pc side of things where every new os means having to get a new computer even if the old one is just a few months old

Thanks!

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 02:51 AM

Originally Posted by austinh

Will Leopard run fine on a 1.83ghz C2D macbook with 2gb of ram?

I'd bet money on it. 10.4 runs better than 10.1 did on most machines.

mindwaves · Mar 12, 2007, 02:51 AM

Yes, it will run perfectly fine.

Kevin · Mar 12, 2007, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I'm really trying to understand why people think OS X so desperately needs more stupid eyecandy and they'll be severely disappointed if there isn't a significant increase in the number of dancing paperclips, but I'm drawing a blank.

I think OS X needs a less cluttered and streamlined GUI. A consistent one. One that doesn't distract from the content.

Platinum did this. They need a modern version of this.

Big Mac · Mar 12, 2007, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by austinh

Will Leopard run fine on a 1.83ghz C2D macbook with 2gb of ram? The only reason I ask this is because I'm coming from the pc side of things where every new os means having to get a new computer even if the old one is just a few months old

You have a new computer, and Apple supports its hardware for many years. For instance, every Mac with built-in Firewire is capable of running Tiger, the current release. That means Tiger supports computers going as far back as January 1999. Apple's whole regular line got built-in firewire by late 2000. As for Leopard, it appears to up the requirement to G4 or better, which means it will exclude computers all the way up to late 2003 with the last iBook G3. At the very least you're looking at four years of support, and usually more.

xe0 · Mar 12, 2007, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It doesn't seem like there's nearly enough time for that, considering they just put out the ad for the guy who would do it. Maybe in whatever's after Leopard.

That all depends on the amount of time its been in development.

I too am unsure, however the article from Ars regarding logic makes you wonder... specifically:

"there will be no Logic 8. The successor to Logic 7 will have a new name. The unnamed application will be 10.5 only and will work with a new line of touch sensitive Apple displays.

Link

I hope This rumor is true. Apple would indeed live up to its claim and then some.

Aron Peterson · Mar 12, 2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by austinh

Will Leopard run fine on a 1.83ghz C2D macbook with 2gb of ram? The only reason I ask this is because I'm coming from the pc side of things where every new os means having to get a new computer even if the old one is just a few months old

Thanks!

Only Windows upgrades make computers slower. My PowerBook has had 10.2, 10.3 and 10.4. Each upgrade has made my Mac faster. Of course that isn't true for every Mac but the point is it takes more major upgrades of Mac OS to make a Mac slower than Windows.

Aron Peterson · Mar 12, 2007, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by xe0

"there will be no Logic 8. The successor to Logic 7 will have a new name. The unnamed application will be 10.5 only and will work with a new line of touch sensitive Apple displays.

Link

I hope This rumor is true. Apple would indeed live up to its claim and then some.

The rumor will be true if Apple can find a way to make Mac users put up with cleaning their screens every few hours.

Face Ache · Mar 12, 2007, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

The rumor will be true if Apple can find a way to make Mac users put up with cleaning their screens every few hours.

How about something like a multi-touch sensitive graphics tablet that could double as a, um... graphics tablet?

Goodbye mouse.*

Just a thought.

* Maybe a "mouse" pen for the tablet, so the tablet can be used as a regular mousepad too.

austinh · Mar 12, 2007, 09:29 PM

Thanks everyone

xe0 · Mar 12, 2007, 11:55 PM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

The rumor will be true if Apple can find a way to make Mac users put up with cleaning their screens every few hours.

Unless your fingers are abnormally unclean, I doubt that would be a problem.