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The official Leopard thread (Page 19)
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Super Mario
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Jun 14, 2007, 02:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
His name is "CharlesS", and mine is "besson3c". Pleased to make your acquaintance!
I'm calling you BessWifeofgoMac
     
JLL
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Jun 14, 2007, 02:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
Charlie man my Photoshop work had thumbnail previews back in the OS 7.x days.
Because Photoshop made/makes a custom icon with a small preview - it has nothing to do with the OS.
JLL

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Super Mario
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Jun 14, 2007, 03:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by JLL View Post
Because Photoshop made/makes a custom icon with a small preview - it has nothing to do with the OS.
I'm horsing around duh
     
analogika
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Jun 14, 2007, 04:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Seems like you just drag any folder to it and it becomes a stack. You really just need to make a folder on the computer anywhere... drag it to the dock.. and tell safari to save files to that folder.
Actually, during the keynote it was shown that you can drag any clump of objects to the Dock - not a folder, but a selection of objects - to make a Stack.

This must be customizable, though.

I assume that Stacks are just folders that are by default placed in a specific directory in your home folder, like Smart folders with search results.
     
schalliol
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Jun 14, 2007, 04:23 AM
 
Stacks looks like an improved version of what I have often done (especially pre-spotlight) and created a folder with certain applications to launch or documents. However, you'll now have more efficient access than the ctrl-click or click-hold to access the item.
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CharlesS
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Jun 14, 2007, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Super Mario View Post
my Photoshop work had thumbnail previews back in the OS 7.x days.
Photoshop was pasting custom icons on your files when you saved them. It did this specifically to work around the fact that the OS didn't have a thumbnail feature.

And again, this is completely irrelevant.

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OreoCookie  (op)
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Jun 14, 2007, 12:57 PM
 
People, keep it civil. I think there are more important topics (and revolutionary features) than thumbnail previews.
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MattJeff
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Jun 14, 2007, 05:51 PM
 
Thumbnail Previews would make my life hundreds of times easier. but we have them now so yay!
quick question- how do you know what apps you have open? in the key note i didn't notice any little triangles.
     
JLL
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Jun 14, 2007, 07:21 PM
 
There is a blue spot.
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TETENAL
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Jun 14, 2007, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Photoshop was pasting custom icons on your files when you saved them. It did this specifically to work around the fact that the OS didn't have a thumbnail feature.
The OS did have a thumbnail feature. It just required that the application that saves the file also creates the thumbnail.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 14, 2007, 09:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
The OS did have a thumbnail feature. It just required that the application that saves the file also creates the thumbnail.
Similarly, DOS had awesome 3D animations; it just required you to create and render the pictures yourself and stick them on your screen in quick succession.
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MattJeff
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Jun 14, 2007, 11:49 PM
 
why doesn't safari look like it did in the keynote? Does the new os automatically change the look of apps?
     
CharlesS
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Jun 15, 2007, 12:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
The OS did have a thumbnail feature. It just required that the application that saves the file also creates the thumbnail.
No it didn't, it had a custom icon feature which some clever programmer at Adobe realized could be used to store thumbnails. The OS itself had absolutely no thumbnail functionality at all.

I can't believe we're still arguing about this.

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JLL
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Jun 15, 2007, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by MattJeff View Post
why doesn't safari look like it did in the keynote? Does the new os automatically change the look of apps?
There is no dark unified look in Tiger.
JLL

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TETENAL
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Jun 15, 2007, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
The OS itself had absolutely no thumbnail functionality at all.
Technical Q&A QTICM08: Creating Thumbnail PICTs
Technical Q&A QTMCC10: QuickTime Preview Behavior

Case closed.
     
mindwaves
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Jun 15, 2007, 02:50 PM
 
Actually, stacks are another implementation of Pop Up folders in Mac OS 8-9 days. I used them a lot and I'm looking forward to their return!
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Chuckit
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Jun 15, 2007, 02:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Actually, stacks are another implementation of Pop Up folders in Mac OS 8-9 days. I used them a lot and I'm looking forward to their return!
My thought exactly. Popup folders were awesome. I hope stacks work as well.
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CharlesS
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Jun 15, 2007, 05:18 PM
 
Quick summary. How to put a thumbnail on an icon:

1. Make it yourself

2. Put it on the file

I hardly think it's analogous to the automatic thumbnail features present in OS X and Vista.

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TETENAL
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Jun 15, 2007, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
I hardly think it's analogous to the automatic thumbnail features present in OS X and Vista.
Now that's a new qualifier you didn't use before. The classic Mac OS supported icon thumbnails. They required the saving application to create them, but they were there.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 15, 2007, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Now that's a new qualifier you didn't use before. The classic Mac OS supported icon thumbnails. They required the saving application to create them, but they were there.
There's a difference between supporting and not completely forbidding. The old OS did nothing to support icon thumbnails. If you wanted to create icon thumbnails yourself and assign them yourself, you could, but the OS did not support icon thumbnails as a feature, automatic or otherwise. It did support custom icons, which could be used to display thumbnails, but the feature did nothing to enable this behavior. Similarly, the early system versions did not support multitasking, but it was possible to hack multitasking on.
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CharlesS
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Jun 16, 2007, 01:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Now that's a new qualifier you didn't use before. The classic Mac OS supported icon thumbnails. They required the saving application to create them, but they were there.
The classic Mac OS didn't have any thumbnail feature at all. If the OS has absolutely nothing to do with making the thumbnails, the application has to make them itself, and the OS doesn't have any idea that the custom icons being made are thumbnails, then the thumbnails are not a feature of the OS. They are a feature of the application, as is patently evident to anyone who is not a lobotomy patient.

It's like saying that the classic Mac OS supported MS Word documents. They required the saving application (MS Word, specifically) to create them, but they were there.

Therefore, since Word docs were able to exist in the old OS, Mac OS X's feature of providing Word doc support to all Cocoa applications (as seen in TextEdit) is nothing new.

In someone's bizarro land.

Oh, and if someone can find a page on Apple's site that mentions Microsoft Word, written years after people were already making Word docs, then that proves it! Case closed.

Oh, and as for "Now there's a qualifier you didn't use before", it sometimes helps to read the freaking discussion and have a look at the context. MJF was talking about Leopard's QuickLook, and claiming it looked like Vista's thumbnail feature. I pointed out that the Vista thumbnail feature looked more like OS X's pre-existing thumbnail feature which has been there since 10.0. Now, the big question is, by "thumbnail feature", were MJF and I referring to the "feature" of not actively searching out and destroying any custom icon that some application happens to have put on a file and which happens to be a thumbnail?

< cue Jeopardy!™ theme music >

If your answer was "What is OF COURSE NOT!", then congratulations, you're correct!

And finally, this is still massively off topic!
( Last edited by CharlesS; Jun 16, 2007 at 02:02 AM. )

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rubaiyat
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Jun 16, 2007, 01:37 PM
 
Just how automatic is this OSX thumbnailing anyway when there seem to be enough major file formats (eps for example) where it would be extremely useful but it doesn't work?
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CharlesS
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Jun 16, 2007, 01:43 PM
 
Answer: completely automatic for the formats it supports. And based on what Steve showed us, it looks as if Leopard has greatly increased the number of such formats, so who knows, maybe your EPS will be supported in Leopard too. Only time will tell.

At any rate, OS X has much more of a preview functionality than OS 9 ever did.

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Chuckit
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Jun 16, 2007, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by rubaiyat View Post
Just how automatic is this OSX thumbnailing anyway when there seem to be enough major file formats (eps for example) where it would be extremely useful but it doesn't work?
1. Whether thumbnailing supports a particular file format has nothing to do with whether or not it's automatic.

2. It will support basically every file type in existence come Leopard.
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Jun 16, 2007, 04:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
It will support basically every file type in existence come Leopard.
Bullshit. Leopard will support the common image and office formats and that's it.

If I remember correctly from what Steve said in the keynote CoverFlow will use the QuickLook-plugin, and maybe that also applies to the icon thumbnail, but that relies on third-party support.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 16, 2007, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Bullshit. Leopard will support the common image and office formats and that's it.

If I remember correctly from what Steve said in the keynote CoverFlow will use the QuickLook-plugin, and maybe that also applies to the icon thumbnail, but that relies on third-party support.
Wait, so OS 9 supported icon thumbnails because applications could create thumbnails and turn those into icons, but Quick Look doesn't support arbitrary filetypes even though it has a plugin mechanism specifically for that? What are you smoking?
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hldan
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Jun 16, 2007, 09:47 PM
 
Boy has discussion for this topic become boring. Discussions are getting more into OS9 which is a dead OS.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 17, 2007, 02:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by hldan View Post
Boy has discussion for this topic become boring. Discussions are getting more into OS9 which is a dead OS.
And yet it had features that OS X doesn't. Seems interesting to me.
Chuck
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Jun 17, 2007, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by JLL View Post
There is no dark unified look in Tiger.
I'm not sure, but I think the active window appears "dark unified" and inactive windows appear "light unified."
     
Kate
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Jun 17, 2007, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Quick summary. How to put a thumbnail on an icon:

1. Make it yourself

2. Put it on the file

I hardly think it's analogous to the automatic thumbnail features present in OS X and Vista.
Automatic in Leopard? In Tiger there is no automatic tumbnail generation. Will there be in Leopard? This would be a nice improvement, I could do away with all those tumbnail generating apps I use for this.

What about the "new" Finder? Besides maybe automatic thumbnail generation, does it preview via Quicklook quickly, or does this feature take its time and beachball a lot while scrollng through data to find the looked for file?
     
CharlesS
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Jun 17, 2007, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kate View Post
Automatic in Leopard? In Tiger there is no automatic tumbnail generation.
Uh, yes there is.

1. Click on any image file in column view. You'll see a preview in place of the icon.

2. In View Options, check "Show Icon Preview." All icons for image files will now be replaced by a preview of the image.

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analogue SPRINKLES
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Jun 18, 2007, 11:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Uh, yes there is.

1. Click on any image file in column view. You'll see a preview in place of the icon.

2. In View Options, check "Show Icon Preview." All icons for image files will now be replaced by a preview of the image.
I really have to wonder why Apple doesn't have that on by default as it has been there since 10.2 or .3
     
TETENAL
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Jun 18, 2007, 11:46 AM
 
I think it's always been in OS X. It's probably not on by default because it reduces performance (of the Finder – and that was a big issue in the early 2000s).
     
Chuckit
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Jun 18, 2007, 12:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I really have to wonder why Apple doesn't have that on by default as it has been there since 10.2 or .3
I was going to suggest that's because it's useless eyecandy that sucks up performance in most cases, but then I was like, "Wait, this is Apple."
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Kate
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Jun 18, 2007, 05:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Uh, yes there is.

1. Click on any image file in column view. You'll see a preview in place of the icon.

2. In View Options, check "Show Icon Preview." All icons for image files will now be replaced by a preview of the image.
You mean to click the triangle and it opens a preview in the next column? I frankly admit that I always considered this a , hm, preview, not a thumbnail, since the icon itself usually has the default icon of, let's say, a .jpg.

When forcing the Finder, via an Applescript, or using one of those tools out there, to generate a thumbnail replacing the default icon, I thought that was a thumbnail. You can see it also in icon view and it is not generated automagically.

Where is the difference then?
     
TETENAL
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Jun 18, 2007, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kate View Post
You can see it also in icon view and it is not generated automagically.
You can see it automatically if you follow Charlie's second instruction. Open View Options from the Finder's View menu and turn on "Show Icon Preview".
     
inkhead
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Jun 18, 2007, 09:28 PM
 
Hell freezes over, somebody uploaded this to show netbios support. I guess it's better for integration into windows network

IMGSpot.com- Free Web Hosting
     
Chris Grande
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Jun 18, 2007, 10:15 PM
 
Whats also interesting in that image is that the text/graphics under that sheet are blurred.
     
WJMoore
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Jun 19, 2007, 07:10 AM
 
Certainly is ever so transparent, pointless but nice touch.
     
TheoCryst
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Jun 19, 2007, 12:56 PM
 
I like the slight translucence for a sheet. I've seen sheets that are larger than the window they are attached to, and it can be a little disorienting.

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
kilechki
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Jun 19, 2007, 01:52 PM
 
After a look on Apple's Leopard website, I'm quite surprised to see some holes compared to what was announced last year:

- the new synthetic voice ("alex") is far from the announced performance
- spotlight is just missing in action: there's not even a dedicated page for it. It was supposed to become an important app in the OS, and yet it does not even have its icon in the dock anymore?
- adress book is also MIA, slowly becoming the oldest unupdated OS X app (with Chess?), althought it should be gaining importance with all the "sync your life" message. It already lags far behind in 10.4 feature and UI-wise, compared to vista. What's going on?
- quick time: also forgotten, and this is maybe the first time. Is it still brushed metal? Is it quicker? Does it have playlists?

I'm also quite curious to see if metadata handling has improved in the finder. For the timebeing, you can't even add the same spotlight comment to different items without the help of apple script, this is crazy. Can I finally add automated tags? How is Finder's info window?
After 10 years of OSX development, why isn't there some "collaborative" framework allowing to double-click an item in a doc to open it in an other app (à la opendoc)? This is becoming vital, and still nothing?

There were so many things to improve in 2.5 years, I'm quite happy to see where Leopard is heading - but I can't help thinking that what we see is what we're gonna use until at least 2010. In this regard, there are really a lot of points where OS X remains underpowered.
( Last edited by kilechki; Jun 19, 2007 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Forgotten some point)
     
inkhead
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Jun 19, 2007, 04:25 PM
 
Kilechki, because apple didn't share it on their website it doesn't exist? What reality distortion field are you in?

*Synthetic voice works great (it has a few kinks with certain letters) that apple lists as BUGs they are fixing. It's the first time speech is good enough to read back documents for proofreading.

*Spotlight is not missing, it's completely brand spanking new, a whole new database algorithm. It's hella fast. There is an icon in applications you can put in your dock if you want. But only an idiot would do this considering COMMAND + Spacebar activates it and it's up in the corner and every finder window as well.

*Addressbook has completely been OVERhauled, there are tons of new features, great for syncing, keeping contacts up to date, and even works with leopard to serve the addressbook in formats other than LDAP (if you choose)

*Quicktime, overhauled, new look and feel, and fullscreen added without any registration required.

Seriously your logic makes idiots look brilliant. Have you ever seen my office or me? Obviously if you haven't seen me (by your logic) I don't exist.
     
kmkkid
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Jun 19, 2007, 04:53 PM
 
Does anyone else have the feeling WWDC Leopard preview was a complete Joke?, and what we see in october will be much different?



Just the way I felt. Could Apple have pulled the wool over our eyes?





I mean come on:

Hideous GUI.
CoverFlow in the finder (So What?)
Transparent menu bar.
Pointless 3distic Dock.
Many features introduced at last years WWDC absent.
Mentioning "TOP SECRET" Features, which for some reason I can't find in the keynote... (No a slightly improved finder, and 3D dock don't count.)
The Pushing back of the release date nearly a year.

It all adds up to a prank to me, either that or Apple has lost it's mind and really devoted their whole Software division to the iPhone.
     
Adam Betts
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Jun 19, 2007, 07:36 PM
 
Nah the way I see it, they decided to save some features for 10.6 as they don't want or have the power (due to iPhone stealing developers) to pour in all top features for 10.5 and have a harder time thinking of what to add to 10.6.

At this point Leopard is pretty much already purchase-worthy, at least to me.
     
kilechki
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Jun 19, 2007, 07:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by inkhead View Post
Kilechki, because apple didn't share it on their website it doesn't exist? What reality distortion field are you in?
I'm into Apple marketing.
Not a word from Jobs on scene.
Not a word on the website.
And I don't pirate.
So what? Of course I don't know what's behind the door if I can't open it. This has nothing to do with RDF, just seeing that was said last year did not find at least small echo on stage this year.
You're saying that Spotlight has indeed been revamped - okay, but then, why no word on it? The same goes for AdressBook. Same for QuickTime, although you say nothing about it.

Weird way to prioritize features. At one point, if you don't emphasize the main features of your OS in front of your developers and the media, what is it supposed to mean?
     
Chuckit
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Jun 19, 2007, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by WJMoore View Post
Certainly is ever so transparent, pointless but nice touch.
That's not the cool part. Sheets are already translucent. The cool part is that it's blurring the stuff behind it.
Chuck
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analogue SPRINKLES
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Jun 19, 2007, 08:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Adam Betts View Post
At this point Leopard is pretty much already purchase-worthy, at least to me.
They had me on stacks.
     
Kerrigan
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Jun 19, 2007, 09:33 PM
 
The interface actually looks very nice, not hideous as some say, or boring as I had initially thought.

I'm even really digging the new menu bar - it's not too flashy or glossy as I had worried. And the thicker shadows do a good job differentiating active windows.

http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/.../picture01.jpg



http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/.../picture13.jpg

The only thing which I think needs a bit of work is the dock's blue dot that indicates open apps.
( Last edited by Kerrigan; Jun 19, 2007 at 09:37 PM. Reason: auto-resizing is not working for large screenshots)
     
TETENAL
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Jun 19, 2007, 10:06 PM
 


So much for the automatically turned on thumbnail generation in Leopard...
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Jun 19, 2007, 10:12 PM
 
I think the scroll bar is a real eye sore next to the flat look of the new icons. They should really make it look like the iTunes one at the least.
     
 
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