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xtal · Jan 30, 2003, 10:24 AM

I really enjoyed reading this article, as did many I know. From the most determined warmonger to the most ardent peacenik. I suggest taking a few minutes and reading it. It's worth the time.

Racked with Iraq
The Toronto Star
January 26, 2003

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...32188854&col=9

Please post and let me know what you think.

SimeyTheLimey · Jan 30, 2003, 10:40 AM

A fascinating read for anyone who is convinced that the sky is about to fall. The problem is there are no guarantees that the sky won't fall even without an invasion. There are also no guarantees that things won't be improved by removing Saddam. Regime change could just as easily be like lancing a boil.

Perhaps it might be more constructive to figure out a way to change the regime without letting the sky fall. If the international community were to present a united front, that would be a big help.

voodoo · Jan 30, 2003, 10:41 AM

Good thoughts.

voodoo · Jan 30, 2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
A fascinating read for anyone who is convinced that the sky is about to fall. The problem is there are no guarantees that the sky won't fall even without an invasion. There are also no guarantees that things won't be improved by removing Saddam. Regime change could just as easily be like lancing a boil.

Perhaps it might be more constructive to figure out a way to change the regime without letting the sky fall. If the international community were to present a united front, that would be a big help.

Nobody thinks the sky is goint to fall here. Some analysts believe that an Iraq campaign would result in a balance shift in the Middle East that could lead to incresed conflict there for some time. That is it. There is no way come hell or high water that a 3rd WW or whatever is goin to be made because of or by the Middle East. There simply isn't a regime or group there capable of such a feat. With Saddam gone a lot could change in the Middle East. It is unlikeley that it will go exactly the way Bush intends it to do, but generally perhaps. Anyway, the point of that article was to give people insight in what is happening and what has happened in the Middle East up to today.

Timo · Jan 30, 2003, 11:04 AM

Nice write up.

That site totally locks up Safari for me.

scottiB · Jan 30, 2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Timo:
Nice write up.

That site totally locks up Safari for me.

Locks it for me, too. Can't even get the bug report to function. Am reading the article now in I.E.

xtal · Jan 30, 2003, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by Timo:
Nice write up.

That site totally locks up Safari for me.

Sorry about that! I read it using Chimera, and didn't think to try it with Safari. I've already sent this site's bug report, so it will hopefully work with the 1.0 release.

Keep the replies coming.

Hawkeye_a · Jan 30, 2003, 09:37 PM

nice comprehensive look at the complexity, and the people(or rather countries and 'organizations') concerned.

The Middle East will never be 'free' ..... free to choose their own government, laws or prices for exporting their natural resources. pity.

rampant · Jan 30, 2003, 10:06 PM

I like the part where it talks about Bush being so incompetant.

Nicko · Jan 30, 2003, 10:12 PM

Yea good read

I'm on Safari and it took well over a minute for the page to load, but it did eventually! I think you just have to be patient.

Face Ache · Jan 30, 2003, 10:37 PM

Hasn't Israel been quiet in all of this? They're going to be the big winners.

xtal · Jan 31, 2003, 12:28 AM

In the actual print version of the article, there was a fantastic satellite image of the Middle East, including many topographical features, with profiles on each of the nations involved, their leaders, their political stance, etc. etc. I wish I could find an online copy of that map, I learned a great deal about how the geography of the area plays a huge role in the sordid history.

For example the Kurds in northern Iraq and the moutainous region separating it from Turkey.

Things like that are alluded to in the article, but the map is a great addition.

xtal · Jan 31, 2003, 10:15 AM

Although not the same map I mentioned above, there is a link to some satellite imagery from the article itself.

Sorry, I didn't notice that the first time.

NeoMac · 10:59 AM

[EDIT] BTW, I'm not dissing the article. It's a fine read. All I'm saying is that there's counter-balancing issues that it doesn't touch upon.

It expouses the view that the whole thing will fail. It almost guarantees it. It digs back a century to find failures to make it's point.

If it was meant to be a reasoned article, then it should have also touched upon the reasons it (liberation of Iraq) could succeed and that history also teaches us how to succeed. It would only need to look back at the past 20 years to see that the U.S. has successfully liberated Panama, Kuwait, the Yugoslav states, and Afghanistan. And Eastern Europe (indirectly).

And before you start tossing drivel about how some of those countries still have issues, atleast have the grace to admit that there have been drastic improvements in those countires; that it takes time for nations to recover from decades of oppression; that their peoples are free which intrinsically is of high value to them and the world.

NeoMac · Jan 31, 2003, 10:55 AM

This also a good commentary. Canadian news commentary:

http://www.cbc.ca/national/real/rex_030129.smi

(REAL stream)