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The Future of the Supreme Court (Page 4)
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Chongo
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Sep 24, 2018, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
A 2nd accuser has spoken up. I do not recall anyone stating their political leanings.

Are you implying they should be given the Anita Hill treatment, followed by a rubber-stamp confirmation?
She is a registered Democrat.

I’ll be surprised if Ford shows since all the people she claims were there have denied knowledge. If she does show, the questioning will most likely be done by a female attorney.
     
Laminar
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Sep 24, 2018, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
It wouldn’t have mattered what male judge Trump nominated, this was going to happen.
Yes, that is the line you're being fed to help you rationalize everything that's happening.
     
Chongo
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Sep 24, 2018, 02:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Yes, that is the line you're being fed to help you rationalize everything that's happening.
Not so. Kavanaugh is replacing Kennedy, and Gorsuch replaced Scalia. This is nomination is viewed as "tipping the balance of the court" whereas the last appointment was not. When Trump nominates Barrett to replace Ginsberg, that's when the real fireworks will start.
     
reader50
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Sep 24, 2018, 03:24 PM
 
I doubt this confirmation would be so troubled, if Obama's nomination had been confirmed. Why should the Ds give an easy confirmation, when the Rs already cheated?

btw, it bothers me. That it's implied the accusers are lying/making it up. That their claims are baseless, if they have registered as Democrats. This suggests accusations of misconduct could only be believed if it were women registered as Republicans.
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 24, 2018, 04:00 PM
 
All someone has to do is say the magical spell "soros paid them" and then be relieved that they don't have to bother themselves with worrying about supporting a bad person. It's like those words validate their own beliefs or something.
     
Chongo
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Sep 24, 2018, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
All someone has to do is say the magical spell "soros paid them" and then be relieved that they don't have to bother themselves with worrying about supporting a bad person. It's like those words validate their own beliefs or something.
That deserves a meme!
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 24, 2018, 04:56 PM
 
exactly.

     
OreoCookie
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Sep 24, 2018, 10:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
btw, it bothers me. That it's implied the accusers are lying/making it up. That their claims are baseless, if they have registered as Democrats. This suggests accusations of misconduct could only be believed if it were women registered as Republicans.
Yeah, I think that's the most disgusting aspect here. Just have a look at the conservative commentariat à la National Review: they spill tons of digital ink saying “there is no corroboration or proof on the horizon” (very convenient if in addition you are in favor of a fast confirmation and against an in-depth investigation) or “oh, you misunderstand the statistics about women claiming to be assaulted” and so forth. That's a very far cry from the initial reaction here or when it was convenient to point out the hypocrisy of the Democrats when “Franken was credibly accused of sexual misconduct.”

But don't kid yourself, even if these were registered Republicans, that still wouldn't lend any additional credence to these women. Just have a look how Comey, Mueller and the Republicans involved in the investigation are treated.

On a larger scale, I really don't get it: if Trump had been smart and strategic, he would have withdrawn support from Kavanaugh and proposed another candidate (e. g. a woman) early on. It's not as if there isn't another Gorsuch-type candidate on the list, someone of the “right” ideology but with a clean record. McConnel was also concerned about Kavanaugh's nomination due to his long paper trail (and his clear partisanship).
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 24, 2018, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
But don't kid yourself, even if these were registered Republicans, that still wouldn't lend any additional credence to these women. Just have a look how Comey, Mueller and the Republicans involved in the investigation are treated.
They would just say they were never-trumpers.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 24, 2018, 10:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
On a larger scale, I really don't get it: if Trump had been smart and strategic, he would have withdrawn support from Kavanaugh and proposed another candidate (e. g. a woman) early on. It's not as if there isn't another Gorsuch-type candidate on the list, someone of the “right” ideology but with a clean record. McConnel was also concerned about Kavanaugh's nomination due to his long paper trail (and his clear partisanship).
Two things:

1. Trump doesn't like backing down. And he definitely won't back down on allegations coming from women (See: 'O Reilly, Ailes, Porter, Lewandowski, etc.)

2. There's definitely an element of alpha male bullshit coming from some conservative spheres. Getting a conservative vote isn't enough – they must pass Kavanaugh to show who's boss – or to own the libs.
     
OreoCookie
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Sep 24, 2018, 10:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
1. Trump doesn't like backing down. And he definitely won't back down on allegations coming from women (See: 'O Reilly, Ailes, Porter, Lewandowski, etc.)
Yup, I think you are dead on. And I think Trump is taking accusations of sexual misconduct personally for obvious reasons. The only “objection” is that I have written “if Trump were smart and strategic …”
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
2. There's definitely an element of alpha male bullshit coming from some conservative spheres. Getting a conservative vote isn't enough – they must pass Kavanaugh to show who's boss – or to own the libs.
Good observation. In each and every political battle, they must defeat the Dems/libtards/The Left/The Far Left rather than do what's right and come out better at the end. Even if Kavanaugh ends up being confirmed, this will remain a stain on the Supreme Court for as long as he is on it. History won't be kind.
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 24, 2018, 10:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Even if Kavanaugh ends up being confirmed, this will remain a stain on the Supreme Court for as long as he is on it. History won't be kind.
Funny you say that: Is anyone here old enough to have understood the Hill/Thomas hearings at the time? I wasn't. I don't even know enough to have an opinion on them. But if Thomas was a 'stain' as you say, well time has faded that memory.

Even with the comparisons regurgitating the spectacle of '91, I really don't hear commentary on Thomas. It's all focused on how badly it was handled (Orrin Hatch hasn't changed).
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 24, 2018, 10:53 PM
 
“It may not be our job to impose sanctions on him, but it is our job to make his pattern of revolting behavior clear — piece by painful piece,” [Kavanaugh] wrote. “Aren’t we failing to fulfill our duty to the American people if we willingly ‘conspire’ with the president in an effort to conceal the true nature of his acts?”
Its almost enough to make you believe in Karma.
     
OreoCookie
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Sep 24, 2018, 11:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Funny you say that: Is anyone here old enough to have understood the Hill/Thomas hearings at the time? I wasn't. I don't even know enough to have an opinion on them. But if Thomas was a 'stain' as you say, well time has faded that memory.
I think the times were different, and the attitude towards sexual misconduct was quite different. And after #metoo, there was a hope that stuff like this wouldn't repeat itself. Indeed, quite a few powerful men everywhere have lost their jobs (even though many have received golden parachutes to go away).
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Even with the comparisons regurgitating the spectacle of '91, I really don't hear commentary on Thomas. It's all focused on how badly it was handled (Orrin Hatch hasn't changed).
I've seen plenty out there in the media, e. g. on The Hill, Politico, Vox and all other media outlets. Even partisan publications mention Thomas's name, although they usually evoke a very different connotation (along the lines of Thomas almost got borked).
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 24, 2018, 11:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I think the times were different, and the attitude towards sexual misconduct was quite different.
Fun fact, after the spectacle of the hearing the number of women in the senate tripled to 6 after '92 elections. It was called Year of the Woman.

25 years later, the only women on judiciary are democrats.
     
Chongo
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Sep 25, 2018, 06:34 PM
 
Hmm, Uncle Joe doesn't like FBI reports.


Who is that behind Hillary circa the 2016 campaign?
     
Laminar
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Sep 26, 2018, 03:04 PM
 
Why does she dress like she's in a '60s Japanese sci fi movie?
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 26, 2018, 04:10 PM
 
well, maybe she was in china? also that looks comfy as heck. For Chongo: all the better to hide the medical paraphernalia with, my dear.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 26, 2018, 04:20 PM
 
You read Avenettis clients account? It'll leAve you disturbed. And she swore it under penalty of perjury.
     
Chongo
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Sep 26, 2018, 04:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
well, maybe she was in china? also that looks comfy as heck. For Chongo: all the better to hide the medical paraphernalia with, my dear.
that square on the side is a pouch holds a colostomy bag.
     
reader50
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Sep 26, 2018, 07:57 PM
 
There are now three accusers. Julie Swetnick currently has security clearances to work for the US treasury, US Mint, and the IRS. She says:
I witnessed efforts by Mark Judge, Brett Kavanaugh and others to cause girls to become inebriated and disoriented so they could then be ‘gang-raped’ in a side room or bedroom by a ‘train’ of numerous boys…

In approximately 1982, I became the victim of one of these ‘gang’ or ‘train’ rapes where Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh were present.
In case anyone was curious if she was a Democrat,
She registered as a non-affiliated voter in Washington DC in 2014 and voted in the 2016 general election.
     
OreoCookie
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Sep 26, 2018, 08:49 PM
 
How many women have to come forward before we can speak of a pattern? I think it is important to keep in mind that not getting a seat on the Supreme Court is not a punishment, nor is it a right that someone earns. If Kavanaugh does not get confirmed, he will get back to work at the DC Court of Appeals, not to jail.
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andi*pandi
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Sep 27, 2018, 01:43 PM
 
watching the testimony, she comes across very believeable. They are asking very detailed questions about whether she is scared of airplanes.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2018, 05:42 PM
 
Kavanaugh blaming leftists and a Clinton revenge conspiracy in his opening statement is ****ing appalling.
     
reader50
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Sep 27, 2018, 06:08 PM
 
I just checked in. Sounds like the usual playbook (trivialize Ford and rush Kavanaugh through) isn't working so good.
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
They are asking very detailed questions about whether she is scared of airplanes.
Missed that part. What do airplanes have to do with anything?
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 27, 2018, 06:09 PM
 
Questions no one asked: Who paid for his lawyer?
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 27, 2018, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Missed that part. What do airplanes have to do with anything?
There was some discussion during the scheduling of this hearing today, that she couldn't come right away because she didn't want to fly, possibly fear of airplanes. Special council today spent a lot of time asking her about her various vacations and how she got there. Implication was she lied about being scared of airplanes to delay proceedings. I believe she is scared, especially to fly coach.

A lot of slimy insinuations about who paid for the lie detector test and her lawyers also.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2018, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
They are asking very detailed questions about whether she is scared of airplanes.
The GOP pulled the prosecutor after a few rounds. Pretty scummy.
     
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Sep 27, 2018, 07:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
There was some discussion during the scheduling of this hearing today, that she couldn't come right away because she didn't want to fly, possibly fear of airplanes. Special council today spent a lot of time asking her about her various vacations and how she got there. Implication was she lied about being scared of airplanes to delay proceedings. I believe she is scared, especially to fly coach.
It's sad that this apparently still works in 2018.
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
A lot of slimy insinuations about who paid for the lie detector test and her lawyers also.
Make the victim into the accused.
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2018, 08:49 PM
 
     
OreoCookie
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Sep 27, 2018, 09:50 PM
 
It makes sense to me. Kavanaugh really wants the job that he feels he is entitled to after all the hard work. So he knows the longer this drags on, the lower his chances. And that from a political perspective, his confirmation will come at a loss — and the price will get higher and higher.
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2018, 11:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
It makes sense to me. Kavanaugh really wants the job that he feels he is entitled to after all the hard work. So he knows the longer this drags on, the lower his chances. And that from a political perspective, his confirmation will come at a loss — and the price will get higher and higher.
That's valid. Alternatively, he doesn't believe the investigation will help him.

The man raged and cried that his reputation has been ruined, but it seems to me he cares more about that seat than his reputation, otherwise he'd have the FBI help clear his name.
     
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Sep 28, 2018, 12:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
That's valid. Alternatively, he doesn't believe the investigation will help him.
I think both. In all likelihood, the investigation would have been inconclusive, i. e. neither could Dr. Ford's allegations be substantiated nor could they be proven to be false. And that would have left him with nothing in the court of public opinion. And here, I reckon, people have made up their minds — and a lot of them don't believe him. He knows this and hopes he can sit this out until he is confirmed and that people will eventually forget about this story in a few years.

I have to say, he really further hurt his credibility when in spite of all the evidence that he was a heavy partier from high school all throughout law school (which is totally fine in my book), he claimed that he was a virgin until later into adulthood and actually never drank in high school. It is clear to most people that he lied about that part at least, and that's not a quality I'd want to have in a Supreme Court judge.

Add to that the fact that Ford has nothing to gain from going public with her accusation (quite the contrary, she has a lot to lose) whereas Kavanaugh has everything to gain by denying that it ever happened.
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The man raged and cried that his reputation has been ruined, but it seems to me he cares more about that seat than his reputation, otherwise he'd have the FBI help clear his name.
All of this “ruining the poor man's reputation” makes me quite angry, because people ignore the victim. Her reputation with many is ruined. She has received death threats and some people believe she is part of some evil Democratic plan to sabotage the Kavanaugh confirmation hearing. Many people still believe the accused instead of the accuser when it comes to sexual misconduct, assault and abuse.
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 28, 2018, 09:17 AM
 
Quite honestly, Oreo, I think his best friend from the time, Mark Jdge would do damage. It's telling that the third person in the room that night wasn't called to testify. If they thought he'd be exonerating they would, but the guy is a mess that reinforces all the claims about Kavanaugh drinking and blacking out.
     
Laminar
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Sep 28, 2018, 10:00 AM
 
Everyone's focused on the assault allegations, but not many people are mentioning the mess his finances are. If there's something weird going on there, an FBI investigation would be bad news for him. Whether or not the FBI could confirm something that happened 37 years ago is one thing, but if they start digging into where all of his money is coming from and going, who knows what they'd find.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 28, 2018, 10:14 AM
 
It's because I can't speculate on them and nothing can be done to look into them.
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 28, 2018, 11:01 AM
 
I can't believe they are voting without FBI investigation. All the bluster about "I welcome investigation" went silent when asked why he isn't asking for the FBI.
     
Chongo
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Sep 28, 2018, 11:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I can't believe they are voting without FBI investigation. All the bluster about "I welcome investigation" went silent when asked why he isn't asking for the FBI.
I'll let Joe Biden answer that.
     
Chongo
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Sep 28, 2018, 11:19 AM
 
Talk about invading someone's personal space.
     
turtle777
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Sep 28, 2018, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I can't believe they are voting without FBI investigation. All the bluster about "I welcome investigation" went silent when asked why he isn't asking for the FBI.
I think it’s pretty clear: the FBI is already having a huge credibility issue, being instrumentalized against Trump with the Russia witch hunt.

Using the FBI for more political gain would shred their credibility even more. They are not interested in that. The FBI know that they’ll find nothing, and look like tools when it all ends.

-t
     
reader50
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Sep 28, 2018, 12:04 PM
 
When does the committee plan to question the other two accusers?
     
Laminar
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Sep 28, 2018, 12:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
being instrumentalized against Trump with the Russia witch hunt.
The witch hunt that's turned up a looooot of witches so far?
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 28, 2018, 02:23 PM
 
I don't know if Flake just helped us or damned us
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 28, 2018, 02:28 PM
 
So do any of our resident conservatives adhere to the "They're both telling the truth" perspective?

I have to assume chongo thinks all the women are democratic plants and maybe ((( S O R O S )))
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 28, 2018, 03:32 PM
 
I'm seeing several takes in the social medias.
PAID DEMOCRATIC PLANT features highly. Also, WHORE.
Yesterday's testimony that "she was assaulted by someone, at some time, in some place, poor dear" narrative allows them to both "believe" her and also imply she is mentally incapable of picking brett out of a lineup. This is more subtle.
     
turtle777
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Sep 28, 2018, 05:08 PM
 
So, exactly what is the FBI going to find, after having conducted multiple thourough background checks over the course of manybmonths ?

If there were undisputable facts, they would have been brought forth by the accusers already. All the FBI is going to find is that these allegations are “she said - he said”.

Kavanaugh is going to be confirmed in one week.

-t
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 28, 2018, 05:13 PM
 
The FBI hasn't investigated this. They will likely interview all the people that weren't brought in yesterday to testify. They will find out when his buddy worked at the grocery store, and do more research.

Whether one week is long enough, I doubt.

So it's possible this one-week extension is placebo based.

Entering calendars into evidence, as if a teenage boy is going to write "go to raging kegger" on the bedroom wall calendar where mom and dad can see it.
     
turtle777
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Sep 28, 2018, 07:06 PM
 
Well, the Democrats brought in the best they had. And even that was only unprovable accusations. If there was better facts out there, don’t you think the Democrats would have had it dragged before the committee yesterday ? They have been planning this for months.

The fact will be proven by the FBI’s non-finding: it was a bluff. And the Republicans called it.

Game over next week.

-t
     
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Sep 29, 2018, 12:16 AM
 
The GOP denied to subpoena the witness of the alleged assault, even though the Democrats wanted him to come, too.
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The Final Dakar
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Sep 29, 2018, 06:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
They have been planning this for months.
I find this amusing. Everyone who thinks Democrats are cunning, methodical politicians, raise your hand.
     
 
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