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Harry Potter 7 - No Spoilers! (Page 3)
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shifuimam
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Jul 22, 2007, 04:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
So, exactly the same as witchcraft then.
Except that the magic in Harry Potter wasn't available to just anyone. From what I've read, modern wiccan and pagan beliefs teach that everyone is god and that everyone has the power; they just have to learn how to use it.

Harry Potter ultimately teaches that nobody is god and that every wizard out there, no matter how great and honorable, is fallible and screws up - and abuses their power at one point or another.
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Doofy
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Jul 22, 2007, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Except that the magic in Harry Potter wasn't available to just anyone. From what I've read, modern wiccan and pagan beliefs teach that everyone is god and that everyone has the power; they just have to learn how to use it.
Yes, but modern wiccans and pagans are idiots. I'm talking about proper witchcraft. Sure, it's available to all - but some are more "gifted" than the rest and will find it extremely easy going (the Harry Potters, so to speak) and some will never get it no matter how hard they try, even though it's latent in them (the mundanes - "muggles" in Potter speak?).

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Harry Potter ultimately teaches that nobody is god
Now, I admit to not having read them so this is an honest question: Does it teach that nobody is god because there is no god? That might have a bearing on the anti-Potter stuff you hear from certain churches.
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Jul 22, 2007, 06:38 PM
 
AFAICT there is no mention of religion at all. New Age stuff like clairvoyance gets attacked a good bit though which I found amusing.

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Doofy
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Jul 22, 2007, 06:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
AFAICT there is no mention of religion at all.
There ya go then - that's probably what they're fussing about. Now, if only JK would have gone about it like Francis Barrett's The Magus and given God the credit for the abilities then it'd all probably be hunky dory.
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Jul 22, 2007, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
There ya go then - that's probably what they're fussing about. Now, if only JK would have gone about it like Francis Barrett's The Magus and given God the credit for the abilities then it'd all probably be hunky dory.
She did, but on the sly. It's genetic with an occasional mutation popping up (Hermione, for example, is from muggle parents). That means that effectively "God gave them their powers" without coming out and saying as much, and without any of the (I think) unnecessary religious overtones in Barrett's work. You see, there are good wizards and bad wizards in Harry's universe, and if God gave the bad wizards their powers, then how would that play to the religious crowd? It's necessary for Rowling's stories that it is the individual PEOPLE who choose which way they'll go, not being fated or compelled to be good or evil.

By the way, I've had time for about 15 pages, and they've been great. Darn home work!

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Jul 22, 2007, 10:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
She did, but on the sly. It's genetic with an occasional mutation popping up (Hermione, for example, is from muggle parents). That means that effectively "God gave them their powers" without coming out and saying as much, and without any of the (I think) unnecessary religious overtones in Barrett's work.
THAT is effectively saying "God gave them their powers"? I'd like to see the mental acrobatics that made you reach that conclusion. You might as well say that it effectively is saying that effectively "Darwin gave them their powers"

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Jul 22, 2007, 11:04 PM
 

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Jul 23, 2007, 02:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Yes, but modern wiccans and pagans are idiots. I'm talking about proper witchcraft. Sure, it's available to all - but some are more "gifted" than the rest and will find it extremely easy going (the Harry Potters, so to speak) and some will never get it no matter how hard they try, even though it's latent in them (the mundanes - "muggles" in Potter speak?).
It's never said that magic is latent in everybody in the Harry Potter series. Wizards have magic (and it will actually manifest on its own even if they suck at controlling it), muggles don't.

Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Now, I admit to not having read them so this is an honest question: Does it teach that nobody is god because there is no god? That might have a bearing on the anti-Potter stuff you hear from certain churches.
Nah, religion is basically avoided. But a very strong theme in the series is that being more powerful than someone else doesn't make you better than them. It's constantly emphasized that the villain of the series is the most magically gifted wizard in the world, and he wants to use that to rule over everybody else, but what matters about Harry is his love for his friends. It's really good Christian values — I can't imagine how anyone could read the books and think, "Hey, this chick is trying to teach my children to love others and stand up for what they know is right! How dare she?!"
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shifuimam
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Jul 23, 2007, 09:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
It's never said that magic is latent in everybody in the Harry Potter series. Wizards have magic (and it will actually manifest on its own even if they suck at controlling it), muggles don't.
Right. Not even that, but there are kids that are born to families with a strong wizard bloodline who have no wizarding abilities - they're called squibs in the Harry Potter series. The books make it very clear that what these kids do is learn how to use a genetically-provided capability, which is quite different from what I understand witchcraft/wicca/paganism to teach.

...but what matters about Harry is his love for his friends. It's really good Christian values — I can't imagine how anyone could read the books and think, "Hey, this chick is trying to teach my children to love others and stand up for what they know is right! How dare she?!"
That's what really gets me. These books can teach excellent values to kids - love, loyalty, trust, honesty, personal strength, confidence...

That Wikipedia article has an image from a Jack Chick tract where the girl claims that Harry Potter let her into things related to the occult (ouija boards, crystal balls, etc.). Like someone else mentioned, the book actually mocks the whole New Age psychic crap. Granted, Professor Trelawney did speak two prophecies in her lifetime, but God gave prophecies to people in the old testament specifically about the state the world was in and how Christ's actions were going to redeem mankind. Trelawney gave prophecies that basically told how Voldemort was going to be defeated. But the crap that Jack Chick mentions? Hell no! I'm wondering if he even read the books.
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Jul 23, 2007, 09:08 AM
 
So does someone in here actually believe these books promote kids becoming real life wizards or something?
     
ghporter
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Jul 23, 2007, 10:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
THAT is effectively saying "God gave them their powers"? I'd like to see the mental acrobatics that made you reach that conclusion. You might as well say that it effectively is saying that effectively "Darwin gave them their powers"
Who are we to say that God did NOT use genetics to create us? And Darwin didn't do anything but explain the process. Being a scientist does not negate the possibility of a person being spiritual you know. The mechanism our Creator chose to do that creating need not be mumbo jumbo and a bunch of hand waving and magic words. It's impudent to suggest some limit to the mechanisms the Creator may have considered or used. That's like saying "God created a rock He couldn't lift."
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
That Wikipedia article has an image from a Jack Chick tract where the girl claims that Harry Potter let her into things related to the occult (ouija boards, crystal balls, etc.)..
Jack Chick must have done some SERIOUS acid back in the '60s. Since about then, his tracts have been consistently built of fantasy and hallucinations. Gotta wonder which side he's really on...

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Jul 23, 2007, 11:47 AM
 
By the way, I finished the book last night. I enjoyed it a lot, though I think Stephen King had it dead-on when he said the end of the series was bound to be imperfect because nobody wants it to end.

 
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shifuimam
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Jul 23, 2007, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
By the way, I finished the book last night. I enjoyed it a lot, though I think Stephen King had it dead-on when he said the end of the series was bound to be imperfect because nobody wants it to end.

 
Yeah - it feels weird to know that there's no more books coming in the future. At least we've got two more movies to look forward to - and lots and lots of merchandising!

 
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Jul 23, 2007, 05:50 PM
 
Has anyone else had difficulty in finding the last movie? Goblet of fire seems to have disappeared, I'm wondering if they are waiting to re-release it or something. Anyone know?
     
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Jul 23, 2007, 09:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Who are we to say that God did NOT use genetics to create us?
We are rational beings who don't have to invent supernatural explanations for things we don't understand, that's who

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Jul 23, 2007, 10:04 PM
 
Chuck
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Y3a
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Jul 24, 2007, 08:55 AM
 
Ok...so WHO is this "Ron" Character then???
     
shifuimam
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Jul 24, 2007, 10:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by crushonjlw123 View Post
Has anyone else had difficulty in finding the last movie? Goblet of fire seems to have disappeared, I'm wondering if they are waiting to re-release it or something. Anyone know?
Buy it while you can. DVD's getting discontinued in like a month. Granted, they discontined the first two at the beginning of the year and they're still in stock, but the price is eventually going to go up.

I just really, really, really hope they're not planning on releasing movies 5-7 on HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray only. They'd better release them on standard DVDs...

Originally Posted by Y3a View Post
Ok...so WHO is this "Ron" Character then???
You are hi-freakin-larious.
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Jul 24, 2007, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
So does someone in here actually believe these books promote kids becoming real life wizards or something?
There are real life wizards?
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 24, 2007, 02:50 PM
 
Only in the KKK.
     
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Jul 24, 2007, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
So does someone in here actually believe these books promote kids becoming real life wizards or something?
You're getting that confused with Dungeons & Dragons.
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Jul 24, 2007, 03:14 PM
 
Let's LARP at the local abandoned mine!
     
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Jul 24, 2007, 03:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
Let's LARP at the local abandoned mine!
You'll have to get past the Gorvil, first.
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Jul 24, 2007, 03:23 PM
 
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Jul 24, 2007, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
You people are full of names I don't know today.
I assumed you were talking about Mazes & Monsters.
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