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Are Europeans Conceited?
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tonton
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Jul 26, 2001, 02:35 AM
 
I'm confused. A good friend of mine is leaving our company, and the same day it's her birthday. She's from out of the country, and she doesn't have any friends in town outside of work. Naturally, I tried to organize a party to send her off. Unfortunately, no one else wanted to make any effort, and they all thought I was nuts.

Among our best friends within the company, one German, one French, and one Swiss (sounds like a bad joke) all think if she wants a party, then she should organize it. If she doesn't organize a party, then why should we organize one for her?

Is it just me, or is the answer to that question, "because she is our friend and it would be a nice thing to do"? Are Americans the only nice people who do things for others for no reason? It's not like she's going on holiday. She's leaving the company, and the country, forever. I'd like to think that we're all friends and not just colleagues.

Also, when people start throwing going away parties for themselves, I start thinking, "are they conceited?" Am I the only one who thinks this way?
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ZO
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Jul 26, 2001, 05:42 AM
 
That position seems the most extreme I have ever heard about, especially if you are all friends!

It is a fact that in Europe there is less sense of community, but this is a bit much.

My best friends here in Belgium are Dutch, Italian, Belgian, Finnish, Swedish, etc... and we always do things together. As a matter of fact, just last week we even had a friend's parents come over and a whole bunch of us to have a surprise bday party for a friend.

Guess the coldness of Switzerland has gotten to them a bit too much ;-)

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Demonhood
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Jul 26, 2001, 05:52 AM
 
it's not a euro thing. it's a lazy jerk thing.

that is all.
     
Cipher13
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Jul 26, 2001, 06:18 AM
 
Agreed... I'd start to quetion how friendly these 'friends' really are...

[ 07-26-2001: Message edited by: Cipher13 ]
     
voodoo
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Jul 26, 2001, 06:34 AM
 
...and don't believe the US is what you see in Hollywood movies. There is a reason Hollywood is called "the dream factory".

Now, I would like to propose a thesis*. Friends are like a family and many family mentalities apply. For instance it is "normal" in some families to kiss each other good-bye, but in others stiff waving or a handshake will do. So I will come to the conclusion that people's behavior in a small circle of friends is comparible to their behavior in families. Furthermore it has nothing to do wheather you are from Europe or whatever.

*A hypothetical proposition, especially one put forth without proof.

And here is a trick question for you trivia buffs: To which continent does Iceland belong,

1. Europe
2. N-America
3. Other answer
4. Both
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IceEnclosure
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Jul 26, 2001, 10:32 AM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
<STRONG>

And here is a trick question for you trivia buffs: To which continent does Iceland belong,

1. Europe
2. N-America
3. Other answer
4. Both</STRONG>

Answer: 3.Bjork

ice
     
gwrjr33
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Jul 26, 2001, 11:02 AM
 
Europe, because like Europe it's climate is made milder by the warm, north-flowing Gulf Stream. Along the Greenland coast, flowing south and separating it from North America, is the cold Labrador Current.

Although a good argument can be made for other - neither.
     
ctt1wbw
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Jul 26, 2001, 11:11 AM
 
Well, in answer to the thread question, I don't think Europeans are rude or conceited or anything
near that. I have been all over Europe in my Navy deployments: Spain, France, Italy, Germany,
Austria, Denmark, Norway, and other places such as Saudi Arabia, Guam, Panama, US Virgin Islands,
New York City for Fleet Week, Curacao, and I am sure I am forgetting somewhere... But the nicest people
I have met overseas were in France and believe it or not, New Yorkers were fantastic. The rudest, most
ignorant and disgusting people I have ever met were in the US Virgin Islands. St Thomas was a damn dump
and the people were disgustingly rude. I actually went back aboard the USS Saratoga in order to get off
the island.

If you go overseas to Europe with an open attitude and not with the "ugly American" attitude, people will
respect that and and respect you. I loved everywhere I have been in Europe and would go back again
tommorrow.
     
voodoo
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Jul 26, 2001, 11:43 AM
 
Originally posted by gwrjr33:
[QB]Europe, because like Europe it's climate is made milder by the warm, north-flowing Gulf Stream. Along the Greenland coast, flowing south and separating it from North America, is the cold Labrador Current.
QB]
Nice! I've never heard anyone define continents by their climate before. Although a perfectly feasible option I doubt that is the method � jour. A good idea, though.

It is not the correct answer of course...
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Trash
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Jul 26, 2001, 12:56 PM
 
It's a question of social upbringing. In America, if she threw herself a goign away party she would be considered obnoxious and conceited--"does she really think she's special enough to honor herself?"--whereas the attitude in most parts of Europe would be different--"that's nice, she wants to see her friends before she leaves." Having lived in France for three years, I observed that it was not uncommon for people to throw themselves birthday dinners or somesuch, because it's really not seen as conceitedness.

However, your friends' replies that "she can throw herself a party if she wants to," were uncalled for, since they should adapt to the American party mindset of "we have to do it for her". Besides, it was a rude way to put it.
     
daimoni
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Jul 26, 2001, 02:52 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
<STRONG>

Nice! I've never heard anyone define continents by their climate before. Although a perfectly feasible option I doubt that is the method � jour. A good idea, though.

It is not the correct answer of course...</STRONG>
Yes, I think it a nifty idea to define via climate.

But dotted lines drawn on a map-wise, Iceland is a nordic country, and therefore part of Europe. Early Viking past aside, in 1262 Iceland came under Norwegian rule, and in 1380 both Iceland and Norway became Danish possessions. In 1875 Denmark granted Iceland control of its own economy. In 1918 Iceland got home rule. And full independence in 1944. Blah, Blah, Blah...

I got all of these numbers from, "The Anthropology of Iceland" edited by E. Paul Durrenberger and Gisli Palsson, University of Iowa Press.

Bless!

[ 07-26-2001: Message edited by: daimoni ]
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MacmanX
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Jul 26, 2001, 04:49 PM
 
I thought it was pretty much standard in some parts of the world to organize your own party with groups of people such as coworkers and schoolmates. Whilst studying German, if we wanted a birthday party, we organized it ourselves and brought food for the class. It's one way to make sure you get to share special occasions with friends. I mean, lets face it. Many Americans are self-centered, mean, and unthoughtful. It makes more sense to organize your own party here than in other countries. What American has time to organize a party for someone else when there is a world to concur and "conceited" Europeans to bash?

Oh, the point. In certain circumstances in certain cultures norms are different. To apply a negative term to their customs is ethnocentric and furthers stereotypes of your own culture.

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gwrjr33
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Jul 26, 2001, 05:01 PM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
<STRONG>
Nice! I've never heard anyone define continents by their climate before. Although a perfectly feasible option I doubt that is the method � jour. A good idea, though.

It is not the correct answer of course...</STRONG>
Well, one could again say Europe by making the historical argument a la daimoni but Greenland is still a part of Denmark but obviously not a part of Europe.
     
daimoni
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Jul 26, 2001, 05:28 PM
 
Originally posted by gwrjr33:
<STRONG>

Well, one could again say Europe by making the historical argument a la daimoni but Greenland is still a part of Denmark but obviously not a part of Europe.</STRONG>
Exactly. I think the keyword here is "belongs". If we're talking about land masses and bodies of water, then they all belong to Earth -- I don't think Nature bothers to make such distinctions as one continent to the next -- it's all the same planet.

But people (and nations) have a sense of "belonging" -- therefore I'd still say Europe, even though the island could technically be part of North America or the general artic region or something.
.
     
ZO
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Jul 26, 2001, 06:44 PM
 
Originally posted by ctt1wbw:
<STRONG>But the nicest people
I have met overseas were in France and believe it or not, New Yorkers were fantastic.</STRONG>
France? The cradle of European arrogance?

Hmm, you must've been in Nice like all US ships that go for some R&R. The South is nicer, they have meditteranean cultures (a bit at least) and are used to having a ton of tourists.

Anywhere else in that country and even if you make your best effort to speak French (to show that you are at least trying) and they will still try and kick you to the ground. France is for the French and by all means, let 'em keep it.
     
Trash
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Jul 26, 2001, 07:22 PM
 
I've lived in France for three years, and my brother's in college there. I love the French--while a few of the older ones tend to fit the "snobby frog" stereotype, the majority of people nowadays are very friendly if you know how to handle social situations. They just hate it when people expect to be treated well for no reason whatsoever.
     
christ
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Jul 27, 2001, 07:22 AM
 
I know nothing of Europe, as I am English, but in general I would say that 'conceited' is not a word I would use for Europeans any more than I would for Americans. With regard to your friend's party, it is my opinion that workmates will do what they think the person deserves, not what tradition demands.

I think that Iceland should be in the Arctic (geographically) and Europe (geopolitically)
Chris. T.

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theiliad
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Jul 27, 2001, 07:37 AM
 
No, Europeans aren't like that....sounds like those people in your office are real assholes..

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voodoo
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Jul 27, 2001, 08:35 AM
 
Well I said it was a trick question, so the answer is ambigous.

First, though, cheers to daimoni for giving the correct answer! Iceland does belong to the continent of Europe.

But, geologically it is both a part of America and Europe, since it sits on top of the Atlentic ridge and is essentially split in two. Half of the land is on the American plate and half of the European plate.

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l'ignorante
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Jul 27, 2001, 08:51 AM
 
Originally posted by voodoo:
<STRONG>Well I said it was a trick question, so the answer is ambigous.

First, though, cheers to daimoni for giving the correct answer! Iceland does belong to the continent of Europe.

But, geologically it is both a part of America and Europe, since it sits on top of the Atlentic ridge and is essentially split in two. Half of the land is on the American plate and half of the European plate.

</STRONG>
And you live somewhere in the middle, right
Politically Iceland is European, being a member of the EFTA ( European Free Trade Association) which is a group of countries that don't want to be part of the EU. Other members are Norway, Switzerland and (!) Liechtenstein.
Military Iceland belongs to the NATO, US in particular because they have a huge base right next to the National Airport Keflavik ( for which the US paid).
Cultural Iceland is the most capitalist western country I've ever seen, even though their roots are more than a thousand years old ( Saga's and Edda) of which they are very proud ( should be!). They have very good footballplayers, writers and musicians. In short, it's the weirdest place I know. Children are more or less independant at 14, I know Icelandic grandmothers who are younger than 35. Everybody works, many have two jobs. Owning a Jeep has high status value, owning two even more....etc, etc
Correct me if I'm wrong Voodoo..
     
daimoni
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Jul 28, 2001, 02:51 AM
 
Originally posted by l'ignorante:
<STRONG>
Cultural Iceland is the most capitalist western country I've ever seen, even though their roots are more than a thousand years old ( Saga's and Edda) of which they are very proud ( should be!). They have very good footballplayers, writers and musicians. In short, it's the weirdest place I know. Children are more or less independant at 14, I know Icelandic grandmothers who are younger than 35. Everybody works, many have two jobs. Owning a Jeep has high status value, owning two even more....etc, etc
Correct me if I'm wrong Voodoo..</STRONG>
Nope you're not wrong. And I have Icelandic friends...

I once tried to teach myself the language, but I got a little tripped up with modern old norse -- I'm no William Morris.
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simifilm
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Jul 28, 2001, 03:24 AM
 
Originally posted by ZO:
<STRONG>
Guess the coldness of Switzerland has gotten to them a bit too much ;-)
</STRONG>
Ever been to Switzerland? Righ now we're sweatin ourselves to death...

I always think it's funny when people speak of "the" Europeans. It's already a very delicate thing to make generelized statements on one country, but the cultural difference between , let's say Italy, Switzerland and the Netherlands is so big, I really wouldn't know what European mentality is.
     
seanyepez
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Jul 28, 2001, 05:54 AM
 
In Spain and other European/South American countries, it is traditional to kiss twice as an introduction (even same sex). I thought this was very... disconcerting. I had to kiss people I didn't even know. But they are a very warm culture, I suppose. Then again, some Europeans can be cold-hearted jerks.
     
simifilm
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Jul 28, 2001, 06:37 AM
 
Originally posted by seanyepez:
<STRONG>In Spain and other European/South American countries, it is traditional to kiss twice as an introduction (even same sex). I thought this was very... disconcerting. I had to kiss people I didn't even know. But they are a very warm culture, I suppose. Then again, some Europeans can be cold-hearted jerks.</STRONG>
In France and Switzerland you even kiss three times (starting on the left cheek). In Germany you hug people, this was very distracting for me in the beginning, because I considered this to be much more intimate than giving a kiss on the cheek.
     
voodoo
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Jul 28, 2001, 08:31 AM
 
Originally posted by l'ignorante:
<STRONG>

And you live somewhere in the middle, right
Politically Iceland is European, being a member of the EFTA ( European Free Trade Association) which is a group of countries that don't want to be part of the EU. Other members are Norway, Switzerland and (!) Liechtenstein.
Military Iceland belongs to the NATO, US in particular because they have a huge base right next to the National Airport Keflavik ( for which the US paid).
Cultural Iceland is the most capitalist western country I've ever seen, even though their roots are more than a thousand years old ( Saga's and Edda) of which they are very proud ( should be!). They have very good footballplayers, writers and musicians. In short, it's the weirdest place I know. Children are more or less independant at 14, I know Icelandic grandmothers who are younger than 35. Everybody works, many have two jobs. Owning a Jeep has high status value, owning two even more....etc, etc
Correct me if I'm wrong Voodoo..</STRONG>
Ouch! Right on the money there l'ignorante!

(yes I belong to a nation which can be summarized in less than 200 words, for those of you who were wondering!)

But I'll always look at myself as a European. Somehow Americans seem like foreigners to me, and not Austrians or Finns. Or other any European. I think most Icelanders feel that way. If they have any opinion - they are a pretty apathetic bunch, with the possible exception of their explosive intrest in aquireing a Jeep.

Mm.
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noliv
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Jul 28, 2001, 11:51 AM
 
Originally posted by ZO:
<STRONG>

France? The cradle of European arrogance?

Hmm, you must've been in Nice like all US ships that go for some R&R. The South is nicer, they have meditteranean cultures (a bit at least) and are used to having a ton of tourists.

Anywhere else in that country and even if you make your best effort to speak French (to show that you are at least trying) and they will still try and kick you to the ground. France is for the French and by all means, let 'em keep it.</STRONG>



I feel hurted by your post! Do you really believe what you're saying?
Do you know lots of french?
What's the problem between Belgian people and french people?
-noliv
     
Dogma
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Jul 28, 2001, 05:38 PM
 
I hate gross generalisations - just because a few people appear to be conceited to you, it means that the whole nation must be too. (let alone continent)

If you had never met a Chinese person before, and the one you met for the first time was a dick, would that mean that you thought all Chinese folk were dicks. That would be racism.

I must admit that I have had bad experiences with Americans, but then Americans don't usually go down to well over here (I mean real Yanks - you know, the guys who think the US is the greatest place ever and it can't do anything wrong) It doesn't mean that I think all Americans are Tools, just some, and I admit we have some too. Deal with it.

If you have a problem with a person, confront them on a personal level with it - don't excuse rude or offensive behaviour because of someones nationality. Everyone has their own mind, not a collective one.

And don't call me European!
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simonjames
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Jul 29, 2001, 01:48 AM
 
Its purely a work-thing

If someone is popular then there'll be a leaving lunch/party

If someone if just accepted then (unless they have a good friend at work) there'll be no leaving lunch or party

Remember - the people you work with are not your friend - they're your work mates. You don't see them on the weekends; you don't see them except for work functions and so don't attribute real friendship to people you're forced to be with 8 hours a day. Real friends count
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Face Ache
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Jul 29, 2001, 03:11 AM
 
People are generally nice everywhere until they get to 25-ish.

After 25 they should be culled.

French people should be outlawed (particularly in lovely France).

French people over 25, well.....
     
noliv
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Jul 29, 2001, 10:31 AM
 
I'm 22
-noliv
     
   
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