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Obama's response to gun question (Page 7)
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besson3c  (op)
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Jun 27, 2016, 07:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm not trying to be a jag... what's actually being clarified here?

Convicts aren't allowed to bear arms. This has been adjudicated as constitutional.
The right to bear arms may be infringed depending upon the type of arm, as they are with automatic weapons and shotguns which are concealable. This has been adjudicated as constitutional.
We have background checks. These have been adjudicated as constitutional.

Let's start here: what language in the 2A is most debated, and why?

I'm talking language, not ideology, so let's leave the ideological reasons as to why it might be debated aside.
( Last edited by besson3c; Jun 27, 2016 at 07:50 AM. )
     
subego
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Jun 27, 2016, 07:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Let's start here: what language in the 2A is most debated, and why?
My guess would be the Militia clause.

Which, ahem... has been adjudicated.


Edit: as to why, I'm leaning more and more towards there being a grammar drift from when it was written.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jun 27, 2016, 07:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My guess would be the Militia clause.

Which, ahem... has been adjudicated.

That's it? Why is the 2A still up for debate then?
     
subego
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Jun 27, 2016, 07:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
That's it? Why is the 2A still up for debate then?
Umm... it's not?

I think I'm confused by your question.
     
turtle777
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
That's it? Why is the 2A still up for debate then?
Because guys like you keep bringing it up

-t
     
Chongo
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Jun 27, 2016, 09:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Because guys like you keep bringing it up

-t
So...
45/47
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 27, 2016, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
That's it? Why is the 2A still up for debate then?
Because crackpots on the Left won't accept the USSC rulings?
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Snow-i
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Jun 27, 2016, 08:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@Snow-i

Is everything okay? You seem uncharacteristically angry.
Yeah, I'm good. Long hours @ work and all that.

@Bess - I'm sorry if I'm being a bit agro on you. It just irks the ever-loving-shit out of me when you don't use your noggin. You have one, and I've seen you use it genuinely. Here it just honestly seems like your trying to work backwards from your already made up mind, and it's taking what could otherwise be a legitimate discussion into playing whack-a-mole with logical fallacies. I apologize for the extra snark - I'd just love to see you come to the table with an honest and open mind as to why your view is the minority viewpoint, and work forward from a rational premise instead of backwards from a political ideology.

I wouldn't be so hard on you if I had no respect for you - I wouldn't say anything at all.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 27, 2016, 11:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@Snow-i

Is everything okay? You seem uncharacteristically angry.
Probably because so many of our "friends" on the Left are so uncharacteristically salty. I mean, they commonly resort to shady conversation tactics, just not to the degree we've seen in the last week. I saw an MSNBC news anchor break down and almost start weeping over the failed Senate gun sit-in. Seriously.
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subego
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:01 AM
 
TBH, everybody seems a bit on-edge at the moment.
     
subego
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Jun 28, 2016, 06:25 AM
 
@besson

Back in 2010, the McDonald v. Chicago decision basically ended most of the argument. The militia clause was decided irrelevant, and the amendment applies to the states by way of the Due Process clause.

I actually think the militia clause was incorrectly interpreted in the decision, but my opinion is worth exactly jack and shit. Decision's been made.

Since then, there have been only two arguments which are actually worth having. The first is dealing with the private sale/background check loophole. The second is whether there should be a ban on high-capacity rifle magazines.

The rational response to the first is "the loophole should be closed, but it needs to be done carefully".

With the second, I think the data shows these aren't a big enough problem, but I'm not going to call someone a dumb**** for holding a different opinion.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 28, 2016, 07:18 AM
 
Why has everyone started using the word 'salty' all of a sudden?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
BadKosh
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Jun 28, 2016, 07:23 AM
 
Lets use "Abrasive"!
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 28, 2016, 09:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Why has everyone started using the word 'salty' all of a sudden?
Because it's the best word to characterize the Remain camp's attitude? Brexit is by far the biggest news. Hell, it's even overshadowing the US election debacle. Who would have thought that the UK could outdo Hillary vs Trump? I mean, actually saying things like, "Old people shouldn't be allowed to vote because they'll soon be dead anyway" and "There should be intelligence tests for voting"? WTF?

"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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Waragainstsleep
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Jun 28, 2016, 05:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Because it's the best word to characterize the Remain camp's attitude? Brexit is by far the biggest news. Hell, it's even overshadowing the US election debacle. Who would have thought that the UK could outdo Hillary vs Trump?
Thats interesting. Feels like there is a bit of a lull in the US election interest anyway. Trump has been quiet and everything being said about Hilary is old hat. Not really gonna grab attention from anyone except the obsessive Hilary bashers and they only watch a select few news channels I'd wager.


Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I mean, actually saying things like, "Old people shouldn't be allowed to vote because they'll soon be dead anyway" and "There should be intelligence tests for voting"? WTF?

I did hear about a few older voters who 'donated' their vote to their kids.

My version of the intelligence test suggestion was to give everyone one vote, but to set a short quiz for referendum type votes to test whether the voter has a good grasp of the subject and consequences of their vote. If you pass, your vote counts double. More an anti-apathy test than an intelligence test.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
 
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