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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Tiger: LaunchBar, QuicKeys, Konfabulator

Tiger: LaunchBar, QuicKeys, Konfabulator
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chrisutley
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Jun 28, 2004, 02:34 PM
 
Do any of these utilities come to mind as you read the description of new features in OS X? I consider LaunchBar an essential tool these days, looks like Apple does too.
     
Spliff
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Jun 28, 2004, 02:37 PM
 
Originally posted by chrisutley:
Do any of these utilities come to mind as you read the description of new features in OS X? I consider LaunchBar an essential tool these days, looks like Apple does too.
What feature is like LaunchBar? The new search capabilities?
     
chrisutley  (op)
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Jun 28, 2004, 02:53 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliff:
What feature is like LaunchBar? The new search capabilities?
Heck, yeah. System-wide indexing of everything under the sun. Will "launching" things be as easy as LB, I dunno. However, the service is going to be there, all a developer would have to do is write a front-end that mimics the LB interface - all the underlying work will already be done and probably be done much better than LB could have ever dreamed of doing it.
     
snerdini
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Jun 28, 2004, 02:57 PM
 
As soon as I saw Spotlight, I thought Launchbar. Boo.
     
Superchicken
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:02 PM
 
Now now... the folks at Lightswitch and Watson can attest to the fact Apple NEVER builds in another company's software into OS X.

That said... Dashboard... is stupid. I thought the screen shots were bad photoshop jobs.. I HOPED THEY WERE BAD PHOTOSHOP JOBS!

The interface looks like a bad photoshop job! What the heck is with that itunes controler... have we moved away from Brushed Metal and Aqua to bad plastic looking pieces of crap?

Granted some how intigrating konfabulator like features into the OS is not in it'self a bad idea, and might even be more resource light than Konfabulator... there's still the problem that... THESE THINGS LOOK UGLY!

I hope we can configure the actual looks of them because these look like crap. We all thought apple wouldn't do a fire engine red calendar... we were wrong apparently.
     
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:04 PM
 
It is stealing. That means some seriously bad karma for Steve Jobs. How ironic for someone touting good karma at every iTunes presentation. And are the "Redmond, start your photocopiers" signs really at WWDC? That's sarcasm.

It's really tough to build a livelihood around Macintosh shareware. What's the point to even try if Apple steals the ideas of exactly those people who succeed?

And then this was totally unnecessary. The consensus is Konfabulator that sucks (sorry Arlo). It looks cool, but it doesn't bring any real productivity enhancements. I have a brushed metal calculator and if I'm sick of the colour I dash over to the orange one!? Give me a break. As unnecessary as stealing Watson and then abandoning Sherlock. Or have we seen any new or updated plug-ins? Where are the promised localized plug-ins?

So why not leave those things to these creative shareware developers who are committed to the product?

This is very low of Apple.
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decursive
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:14 PM
 
stealing the idea of searching? you're kidding, right?

the dashboard though, that's more than just a bit risque...
= decursive =
     
:dragonflypro:
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:15 PM
 
Originally posted by snerdini:
As soon as I saw Spotlight, I thought Launchbar. Boo.
But, the thing is the ObDev guys are probably there and they will have the best insight as to how to deploy this. This does exactly what devs want, gives them easy access to tools that make their apps rock. That is assuming the Spotlight technology is accessible akin to Address book, etc.

Think LaunchBar 5.0

As for Dashboard, I actually like the idea. It means 3 or 4 apps not runnign down in the Dock that are really more like utilities anyway. They look pretty dorky, but this is a preview and I imagine the widgets will get a pretty good revision before the release. Coloring them is a good step and makes them instantly recognizable. A good idea that needs just a bit of love to make it sparkle.

T
( Last edited by :dragonflypro:; Jun 28, 2004 at 03:21 PM. )
     
K++
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:19 PM
 
It clearly says that the configuration options for those widgets are on the back of said widgets, I assume somewhat like the Looking Glass technology that SUN demoed some time ago.

So if you don't like the orange, you can make it a different color considering the capabilities of Core Image, making it a different color seems to be trivial to support.

As for killing off other companies tech. What are you guys smoking, they did not make a new launchBar, they created tech that lets user's search their machine more effectively. LaunchBar's goal is to put everything at your fingertips, the new searching technologies are designed to make everything easy to find accurately. I don't see how apple's making me able to search all my content in ways that LaunchBar is not yet even capable of kills LaunchBar, if anything, it provides an API through which LaunchBar can beef up it's own feature set and gain the improvements and speed that Apple has provided.

Competition is a problem only when you have no means by which to compete. QuickSilver has long leap frogged LaunchBar by both providing a superior technology to LaunchBar with more flexibility, and now Apple hsa provided a uniform technology and API that lets both have new abilities through which to provide users with that info that they want at their fingertips.

Where the hell is the problem?
( Last edited by K++; Jun 28, 2004 at 03:55 PM. )
     
Ganesha
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:20 PM
 
Stealing? I suppose then

Safari... is stolen from OmniWeb also?
     
hyperizer
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:29 PM
 
Originally posted by Ganesha:
Stealing? I suppose then

Safari... is stolen from OmniWeb also?
No, but RSS support will make NetNewsWire obsolete for many. Although its developer doesn't seem concerned .
     
K++
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:33 PM
 
Originally posted by hyperizer:
No, but RSS support will make NetNewsWire obsolete for many. Although its developer doesn't seem concerned .
A web browser supporting RSS, no ones ever thought of that.
     
ballmann
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:36 PM
 
i like the idea of konfab and the adaption apple made. the widget have a nice look. its good to have some contrast to the toned os x interface. but if you study the screenshots on apples website you will notice that the whole interface gets much more "plastic" and "shiny"!
     
iNeusch
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:37 PM
 
Does anyone think the guys at Konfab have been hired by Apple ?
     
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:41 PM
 
Originally posted by K++:
Where the hell is the problem?
The problem is that Apple is stealing ideas from its pool of creative developers, which is legal but "bad karma". And then complains in large posters about Redmond stealing those exact same ideas. That's bold.
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snerdini
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:45 PM
 
Originally posted by :dragonflypro::
But, the thing is the ObDev guys are probably there and they will have the best insight as to how to deploy this. This does exactly what devs want, gives them easy access to tools that make their apps rock. That is assuming the Spotlight technology is accessible akin to Address book, etc.

Think LaunchBar 5.0

As for Dashboard, I actually like the idea. It means 3 or 4 apps not runnign down in the Dock that are really more like utilities anyway. They look pretty dorky, but this is a preview and I imagine the widgets will get a pretty good revision before the release. Coloring them is a good step and makes them instantly recognizable. A good idea that needs just a bit of love to make it sparkle.

T
When you say the ObDev guys are "there", do you mean at WWDC, or are you saying that they were hired by Apple?
     
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:46 PM
 
Originally posted by iNeusch:
Does anyone think the guys at Konfab have been hired by Apple ?
Arlo Rose used to be an Apple employee some time ago (I think he did the OS 8 appearance manager). I don't know whether he quit or has been released. He hasn't been hired by Apple now/recently and he hasn't been offered a job like the Watson developer if you mean that.

http://www2.konfabulator.com/forums/...pic.php?t=3903
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bleuvixen
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:48 PM
 
Originally posted by iNeusch:
Does anyone think the guys at Konfab have been hired by Apple ?
Look here:

http://www.konfabulator.com/
     
K++
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Jun 28, 2004, 03:58 PM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
The problem is that Apple is stealing ideas from its pool of creative developers, which is legal but "bad karma". And then complains in large posters about Redmond stealing those exact same ideas. That's bold.
What ideas? The only reasonable one would be Konfabulator, but that is a marginalized overly resource intensive product. It is used by VERY few users and most people look at it, then move on.

It also costs money and relies on the creativity of its users to create the interesting widgets and gives them no compensation for it. That seems a tad flawed business plan to expect your product to make use of other people's creativity without ever giving anything to them in return. Apple's system is open, and free to all, so your still making no money, but now your widget gets scene by A LOT more people and doesn't help someone get rich, since last I checked people don't upgrade and by panther for a free widget.
     
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:05 PM
 
And Watson is dead. They sold their code and will discontinue it on Oct 5, though the rumour is Apple bought the code.
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BZ
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:13 PM
 
Apple has every right to build features based on Shareware applications, just as every shareware developer has a right to build on Apple ideas and software. Of course, when Apple does it it is called "stealing" when a small developer does it it is called "writing a new application".

Watson (which just go bought by Sun.. BTW) is a great app I use every day. Sherlock is slow and sucko.

If Apple they stole the idea for floating switching images from Lightswitch, Lightswitch stole it from Microsoft.

Konfabulator seems like a nice set of tools. Certainly Apple took ideas from them in creating the Dashboard, but like it was stated on /., the idea of small desktop apps running in a finder doing little tasks came form Apple, circa 1984.

Apple also just opened up the SDK to THREE MAJOR core functions that all developers should be very happy about.

1) iSync
2) Core Image/Videa
3) Spotlight

So, now it is time (almost a year) for the developers to bring out bigger better products with more functions, that have more features. This is why people buy things.

Should Omnigrou complain now that OW5 has great RSS reader?

Panic because of built in FTP?

They don't complain, they just move on. Create new apps.

BZ
     
:dragonflypro:
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:26 PM
 
The Konfab use of Expose in recent release just coincides with the Tiger announcement.

It is not as though Apple whipped this out in the last 2 weeks, though the widgets may look it.

Now, the Watson issue was a lot more murky. But, this is nothing like it.

T
     
JayTay
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:32 PM
 
Does no one remember Desk Accessories?

http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?pro...%20accessories
     
Spliff
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:33 PM
 
Re: Apple ripping off Konfabulator.

According to a post over at Slashdot.org, Apple had something called "Desk Accessories" which predated Konfabulator by a long time.

Desk accessories were a feature of the Mac OS prior to System 6 that let small pieces of code run alongside "real" applications, since the OS did not support multitasking of any kind. They occupied their own window and could be started and stopped independently of the application. When cooperative multitasking arrived in System 7, the concept of piggybacking DAs on other apps was no longer useful, and all the utilities that used to be DAs became (small) applications in MacOS 8 and 9. As the Slashdot post continues to point out, Apple has even more history of interface add-ons that precede Konfabulator- The control strip in the original MacOS, docklings in 10.0, menulings in 10.1 and 10.2. Only after all that did Konfabulator re-introduce free-floating self-contained windows similar to the original DA concept.
And here's the Wikipedia entry:
Desk Accessory
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

In the operating system for the Apple Macintosh computer, a Desk Accessory (DA) was a piece of software conforming to a particular programming model. The purpose of this model was to permit very small helper-type applications to be run concurrently with any other application on the system. This provided a small degree of multitasking on a system that initially didn't have any multitasking ability at all.

Within the OS, the DA was in fact implemented as a special class of driver. It was installed in the driver queue, and given time periodically. A DA was permitted to have a user-interface as long as it was confined to one main window. A special appearance of window frame was reserved for the use of DAs so that the user could distinguish it from the windows of the hosting application.

Typical early DAs included the Calculator and Alarm Clock. Third-party DAs such as spelling checkers could be purchased. It was considered hard to write a DA, especially early on when there was little in the way of developer tools. However, since on the early Mac OS drivers did not have any special privileges, writing a DA was, with practice, no more difficult than any other application.

With the advent of System 7, which included a standard co-operative multitasking feature, the need for DAs diminished greatly, and developers were encouraged to develop small applications instead. The system continued to run DAs (and still does up to Mac OS 9.x) for backward compatibility.
     
Spliff
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:40 PM
 
And on the Windows side, Konfabulator was preceded by DesktopX.

http://draginol.joeuser.com/printer.asp?AID=4472

Konfabulator is a great program. I use it on my Macintosh. I'm a registered user of it even. And Konfabulator would deserve a lot of credit for this innovation if it weren't for the inconvenient fact that DesktopX preceded it by THREE YEARS.
     
Spliff
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:41 PM
 
Re: Konfabulator

Here's a good Slashdot post.

I really hate reading this panic "they're stealing!" attitude every time.

Let's do a review here, okay?"

* 1984: Apple introduces desk accesories. Little programs that go anywhere on the desktop and can be run in parallel to other applications.
* 1986-ish: Apple introduces Multifinder.
* 1990-ish: Apple introduces System 7, and deprecates DAs.
* 1998: Windows 98, complete with active desktop and on-desktop widgets.
* 2000-ish: Apple introduces Mac OS X. Widgets now go in the dock.
* 2002-ish: Apple moves widgets to the menu bar.
* 2003-ish: Konfabulator is born.
2004: Apple moves widgets to the desktop and adds javascript.

Frankly, Konfabulator was a low hanging fruit. It didn't really introduce anything except using Javascript, it just tied together a batch of old technology with a very old Apple idea. It's common sense to realize that Apple would move widgets back onto the desktop and add Javascript support once they realized how well it would work out. About the only thing you can really take issue with is Apple's decision to use Javascript.
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.p...92&cid=9553500
     
hldan
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:44 PM
 
Originally posted by Superchicken:
Now now... the folks at Lightswitch and Watson can attest to the fact Apple NEVER builds in another company's software into OS X.

That said... Dashboard... is stupid. I thought the screen shots were bad photoshop jobs.. I HOPED THEY WERE BAD PHOTOSHOP JOBS!

The interface looks like a bad photoshop job! What the heck is with that itunes controler... have we moved away from Brushed Metal and Aqua to bad plastic looking pieces of crap?

Granted some how intigrating konfabulator like features into the OS is not in it'self a bad idea, and might even be more resource light than Konfabulator... there's still the problem that... THESE THINGS LOOK UGLY!

I hope we can configure the actual looks of them because these look like crap. We all thought apple wouldn't do a fire engine red calendar... we were wrong apparently.
WOw, some of you guys here compain about the wrong stuff. What's wrong with they way any version of MacOSX has looked or the way Tiger looks.
Ever used Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional? Now that's ugly. XP isn't a whole lot better either.
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sideus
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Jun 28, 2004, 04:47 PM
 
Originally posted by K++:
What ideas? The only reasonable one would be Konfabulator, but that is a marginalized overly resource intensive product. It is used by VERY few users and most people look at it, then move on.

It also costs money and relies on the creativity of its users to create the interesting widgets and gives them no compensation for it. That seems a tad flawed business plan to expect your product to make use of other people's creativity without ever giving anything to them in return. Apple's system is open, and free to all, so your still making no money, but now your widget gets scene by A LOT more people and doesn't help someone get rich, since last I checked people don't upgrade and by panther for a free widget.
Agree. I tried on 3 different occasions to find a use for Konfabulator. There just wasn't any widget that was useful for me. Konfabulator is pretty eye candy, but that is about it.
     
nforcer
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:04 PM
 
Originally posted by sideus:
Agree. I tried on 3 different occasions to find a use for Konfabulator. There just wasn't any widget that was useful for me. Konfabulator is pretty eye candy, but that is about it.
I agree. It looks cool, but that's about it.

The thing with Dashboard in Tiger, you have to invoke it from Expose or some other way? The widgets can't be left running on the desktop? So what's the point to konfab users if they can't take cool pictures of their desktop and show off the many worthless toys on it?

It's another Apple limitation I guess.
     
nforcer
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:10 PM
 
Originally posted by snerdini:
As soon as I saw Spotlight, I thought Launchbar. Boo.
When I read the rumors of a search deal in the upper right hand corner I thought to myself "Why doesn't Apple just buy Launchbar, it's useful enough to be on every system". Instead, they just made something very similar to it.

The underlying metadata system might be potentially spiffy, though. The Launchbar developer should be able to use it to make an improved 10.4 version if he wants.
     
nforcer
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:18 PM
 
Originally posted by BZ:
Apple has every right to build features based on Shareware applications, just as every shareware developer has a right to build on Apple ideas and software. Of course, when Apple does it it is called "stealing" when a small developer does it it is called "writing a new application".
The nice thing about shareware applications is that they tend to be updated much more frequently. You can talk with the developers to get features you want implemented. The developers are generally more responsive. And shareware apps tend to be more affordable than anything Apple offers.

Also keep in mind that Apple does not add anything significant to their applications between major OS updates (ie, 10.x versions) unless it involves:

1) A security issue, (usually obscure issues that would not affect one anyways)
2) Minor bug fixes
3) Another sleep related issue (almost every 10.x.x update has these)
4) A music store feature (witness: iTunes getting a minor version bump just for music store additions)
     
nforcer
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:21 PM
 
Originally posted by hyperizer:
No, but RSS support will make NetNewsWire obsolete for many. Although its developer doesn't seem concerned .
I don't think he has reason to be. RSS in Safari (and browsers in general, witness Omniweb 5) is just a logical addition.

Keeping this in mind, there are still plenty of things NetNewsWire does that Safari RSS does not. Safari RSS is a simplistic implementation. And I personally don't want to use a webbrowser to manually refresh RSS feeds to find news.
     
chrisutley  (op)
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:28 PM
 
I didn't start this thread to rip Apple, but I'm not sure what I think of this practice. I think perhaps Apple (in some cases) should reward the developer they are taking the idea from (when it's warranted). Give them a "grant" to develop more cool software, or award them some hardware and software and call it an Apple award for whatever. Perhaps the mere offer would then open the door for Apple to get sued by acknowledging the existence of the "look alike product", making these idea difficult. Of course they could simply approach the developer and make them a fair offer to buy the concept and perhaps offer a job. In most cases I'm guessing the Apple offer would far exceed potential future income from Shareware sales, and therefore would likely be accepted.
     
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:34 PM
 
Originally posted by K++:
It clearly says that the configuration options for those widgets are on the back of said widgets, I assume somewhat like the Looking Glass technology that SUN demoed some time ago.

So if you don't like the orange, you can make it a different color considering the capabilities of Core Image, making it a different color seems to be trivial to support.

As for killing off other companies tech. What are you guys smoking, they did not make a new launchBar, they created tech that lets user's search their machine more effectively. LaunchBar's goal is to put everything at your fingertips, the new searching technologies are designed to make everything easy to find accurately. I don't see how apple's making me able to search all my content in ways that LaunchBar is not yet even capable of kills LaunchBar, if anything, it provides an API through which LaunchBar can beef up it's own feature set and gain the improvements and speed that Apple has provided.

Competition is a problem only when you have no means by which to compete. QuickSilver has long leap frogged LaunchBar by both providing a superior technology to LaunchBar with more flexibility, and now Apple hsa provided a uniform technology and API that lets both have new abilities through which to provide users with that info that they want at their fingertips.

Where the hell is the problem?
looking glass thats totally what I was thinking.

I also agree with your 3rd paragraph,

and on a side note dashboard is pretty cool sure their are apps to do this like a freeware itunes controller and a summary of ical and a calculator and a clock but they take up space in your dock and are not integrated.
     
macaddict0001
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:41 PM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
The problem is that Apple is stealing ideas from its pool of creative developers, which is legal but "bad karma". And then complains in large posters about Redmond stealing those exact same ideas. That's bold.
just for the record features like these were first in the lisa.
     
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Jun 28, 2004, 05:47 PM
 
I had hoped that Dashboard wouldn't be a complete rip-off. But with a little more investigation, it appears to be. For crying out loud, even the widgets -a term they're using on the Website- are written in the same JavaScript language. Not something I'd ordinarily expect from a company so heavily invested in AppleScript and Python.

Not that it matters much from a use perspective. I'll probably use Dashboard about as much as I use Konfabulator, which is to say not at all. And certainly Apple stole no ideas; this is just the Desk Accessory concept all over again. However, the similarities between this and Konfabulator certainly do seem to be cause for alarm this time. Even Watson couldn't really be called a rip-off -there was no reason to believe code was stolen- but this one forces me to wonder.
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nforcer
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
That means some seriously bad karma for Steve Jobs. How ironic for someone touting good karma at every iTunes presentation. And are the "Redmond, start your photocopiers" signs really at WWDC? That's sarcasm.
Jobs can tout whatever he wants. Apple can do what it wants. The thing is, when they base a major feature in their OS off of an existing product that I use (or don't use), I just have one less reason to justify updating. Going down the Tiger primary feature list:

Spotlight: While it will have an underlying metadata and faster search system to use, the primary use of the feature is already accomplished by Launchbar. So I can't call this a major feature for me.
Dashboard: Konfab like. And I don't really care about Konfab. Not a major feature for me.
Automator: Looks like that one Aladdin utility that was expensive and didn't do very well. I never used it. I don't plan on using this, but it might come in handy a couple of times. Still not a major feature for me.
Safari RSS: I already use NetNewsWire. Not a major feature for me.
.Mac Sync: I don't use .Mac. Not a major feature for me.
Voiceover: Not a major feature for me.
iChat AV: Instead of adding something like tabbed messaging or a log viewer, features that would affect a bigger portion of users, they opted to do something for a smaller group and add multiuser video and audio conferencing. I don't use either. Not a major feature for me.
Xcode 2: It will have some nice things like auto vectorization, G5 optimized compiling, etc. But the improvements aren't nearly as significant as fix and continue or distributed builds or zerolink featured in Xcode 1. So this is only somewhat of a major feature for me.

If these are all the major features, I have very little reason to upgrade as a user. This is why Apple should focus more on general OS features that don't already have something similar in place, and why it should develop something that almost all developers and users can leverage. Features like Rendezvous and Quartz Extreme in 10.2, and Expose in 10.3.

If the current featureset remains when Tiger is released (as it mostly was in the case of 10.2 and 10.3), what do I really get? An underlying metadata system? General optimizations and improvements? Smart folders in the Finder and Mail.app that should have existed in 10.3? Right now, that's all it looks like.

Basically all I really see in Tiger that would be of use to me are what I call "minor convenience features". Features you can live without, and probably have for a while now, but if you need to use them it's kind of nice that they are there.
( Last edited by nforcer; Jun 28, 2004 at 06:11 PM. )
     
nforcer
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:05 PM
 
Originally posted by Millennium:
Not that it matters much from a use perspective. I'll probably use Dashboard about as much as I use Konfabulator, which is to say not at all.
The other thing to notice is that Dashboard is supposedly for using small widgets you might commonly use to get things done. Couldn't one use the new Spotlight feature to quickly find the Address Book or Calculator application, launch it, and use the real deal instead of some cheap javascript imitation?
     
JayTay
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:13 PM
 
Originally posted by nforcer:
The other thing to notice is that Dashboard is supposedly for using small widgets you might commonly use to get things done. Couldn't one use the new Spotlight feature to quickly find the Address Book or Calculator application, launch it, and use the real deal instead of some cheap javascript imitation?
But then you have to:

a) search for it
b) open it
c) wait for it to open
d) use it

with Dashboard:

a) press F7 (or 8 or whatever)
b) use it
     
iluvmypowerbook
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:34 PM
 
Another great upgrade for a great OS in my opnion.

I switched from window$ at the Jaguar stage. I was impressed with Jaguar by comparison to window$ and Panther was a big improvement to it for me.

Tiger looks to be yet another powerful and ground breaking OS.

My only fear is that Adobe will screw it up with their updates again and a lot of Mac users will be left standing in the cold. Adobe continues to blame Apple for installers that fail to work. All we can hope for is that some smart cookie will come up with a photoshop equivalent.

But I'll be first in line in 2005 for Tiger
     
powermacj7
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:41 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliff:
Re: Konfabulator

Here's a good Slashdot post.



http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.p...92&cid=9553500
That is a great point. And who is to say they did not pay Konfabulator? I have read and heard many people complain about this WWDC. I am not sure what people except to hear at these conferences. I would like an announcement for G5 PB, but I am glad that OSX is going forward in development. I guess many people set high expectations and are let down when Apple does not release what they want. I firmly believe OSX is a more robust OS then any customer product out. Each release requires much time and preparation, keeping in mind not losing older computer customers. Who is to stay that other developments are not going to happen before the release date.

     
hmurchison2001
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:47 PM
 
Basically all I really see in Tiger that would be of use to me are what I call "minor convenience features". Features you can live without, and probably have for a while now, but if you need to use them it's kind of nice that they are there.
What about the other 140 features you don't know about?


Launchbar- $20
Automater- What Aladdin utility?
Netnewswire- $40
Xcode 2- How do you know the extra features aren't there.


I'm sorry but your posts smacks of far too little knowledge to actually ascertain what users beyond yourself will get. What you see as a "minor" feature is something totally new to others. I think you have trivialized many of these features to support your weak thesis.
     
macaddict0001
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Jun 28, 2004, 06:56 PM
 
isn't anyone alse worried about the lack of fast user switching in the menu bar did they get rid of it or is it located somewhere else in the os sure 150 new features but what is happening to the old ones.
     
dj forge
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:05 PM
 
all this talk of launchbar

IMO, Quicksilver is much better:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/22549
DJForge.com

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krove
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:05 PM
 
Clearly, the major push with Tiger is a strong, underlying framework to aid 3rd party developers enhance existing applications or create new opportunities for other applications that may not have been previously possible or easy to implement.

I don't think the third-party stuff comes even close to these implementations by Apple. First off, they are extensible and accessible to developers (namely core audio/video/image, sync service, spotlight, etc). Spotlight will allow for developers to customize the search-ability of documents or whatever. I could see someone creating a SQL plugin that allowed for the searching of SQL databases, etc. The sky is the limit.

Clearly, many users are finally getting what we've been asking Apple to include all along: robust metadata support complete with fast searching capabilities.



Also, there is some overlap with existing products, but that should encourage them to develop better features. Use and leverage the new frameworks to enhance their applications and provide options and capabilities that Apple does not wish to give to all users. Apple may be encroaching a bit, but overall they are enabling a whole new class of applications and possibilities to emerge.

The author of NetNewsWire would agree. Fortunately, he sees farther than two feet in front of him, unlike so many of the posters here.

How did it come to this? Goodbye PowerPC. | sensory output
     
Chuckit
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:45 PM
 
Originally posted by bleuvixen:
Look here:

http://www.konfabulator.com/
HA! Apple must have known they had that one coming.

Anyway, while I'm not especially happy with Apple stepping on Arlo's toes, I think Spotlight (and the metadata system behind it) sounds like a great addition that goes completely out of the scope of what LaunchBar could ever do. I'm really curious to hear about Core Image, though. If it can help developers make more use of the GPU, that will be fantastic.
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chrisutley  (op)
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Jun 28, 2004, 07:53 PM
 
The talk is about LaunchBar because LB came first. I'm a registered LB user so perhaps I'm biased, but after using QS for a few weeks and now the LB beta - I prefer LB. Compare QS to the release version of LB and I prefer QS. The point ... the a very similar, one is free.

Originally posted by dj forge:
all this talk of launchbar

IMO, Quicksilver is much better:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/22549
     
Superchicken
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Jun 28, 2004, 08:03 PM
 
Apple considers features all kinds of things. My guess is they update most apps that consist of what comes on the installer disc and make sure they have changed at least 150 small things, and always add in about ten big apps or overhauls and call it a year.

This isn't so bad since we tend to get a very polished product, but you can't pretend like everyone one of those 150 features is a selling point. My guess, each person has about 40 things that change in the OS every year that actually make their lives better. For me, Expose, voice chat in iChat AV, updated Safari, better mail.app, the new finder + side bar and what not, some of the changes in system prefs, and some speed made X.3 worth buying.

Automater, and Spotlight are likely to be the big selling points for me this year. I MIGHT be getting an iSight... maybe so iChat AV may some day be a selling point if I know more people with web cams. But over all I'm more likely to be using the iSight with iMovie than anything... which makes me wonder if it would be smarter to get myself a Digital Camcorder outright.
     
Diggory Laycock
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Jun 28, 2004, 08:06 PM
 
For those of you that don't remember DA's

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py...&detail=medium
     
vmpaul
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Jun 28, 2004, 08:33 PM
 
So, I'm assuming all those Konfab Widgets will now have an even larger audience for their work? Of course how many versions of the clock do you really need?

Actually, Dashboard solves the one major problem I had with Konfab when I used it. I hated the Desktop clutter. I like the idea of having an Expose-like hide/show keystroke.

I remember when Konfabulator first came out there were all sorts of moaning and gnashing of the teeth about system resources and memory hogging. Either that was solved or if it wasn't it sure will be with an Apple implementation. That's a plus, isn't it?
The only thing that I am reasonably sure of is that anybody who's got an ideology has stopped thinking. - Arthur Miller
     
 
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