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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 153)
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Eug
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Mar 13, 2008, 09:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles View Post
Toshiba faces 986 million dollar loss on HD-DVDs

We told you so! So many times BD supporters told HD DVD supporters that their "cheap" HD DVD players were being sold below cost but you called us liars and FUDsters. The Blu-ray insiders knew how much the hardware would cost even on the HD DVD side.

A loss of almost a billion on sales of 700,000 standalone players globally is proof that they were selling players at a loss for most of the format war.

To expect to buy a High Def player at this early stage for under 200 while not on sale is an unrealistic expectation.
Somebody is seriously confused. Loss on the technology ≠ hardware manufacturing costs.

Obviously it didn't cost Toshiba $1400 to build each HD DVD player. Or perhaps you're now trying to claim that Toshiba didn't pay off any of the studios, didn't pay anything for their advertising etc, and their employees worked for free in developing HD DVD?

You also seem to forget the price of the Venturer player - $199.99. They're a manufacturer that wasn't encumbered by any real development or advertising costs. And they didn't have to pay off any studios.
     
olePigeon
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Mar 13, 2008, 11:33 AM
 
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
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you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
exca1ibur
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Mar 13, 2008, 11:37 AM
 
     
olePigeon
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Mar 13, 2008, 12:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
ECHO... ECHO... ECHO...
Kinda hard to keep up with this thread.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
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analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 13, 2008, 02:36 PM
 
I think the real reason is that because all the xmas promotions are over. The disks themselves are getting cheaper and cheaper though.
     
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Mar 13, 2008, 02:58 PM
 
     
Eug
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Mar 13, 2008, 03:46 PM
 
Philips: $349 Blu-ray Player Going to $399

Bromley said the $349 price in the January press release was a "typo."

Bromley was then reminded that scores of publications had written about the $349 price last January -- and that Philips had never issued a correction saying the price should be $399.

After that conversation, she called TVPredictions.com back and said the $349 price was not a typo after all. Actually, she said, the price had changed sometime after it was originally set at $349.

Bromley said she did not know why Philips decided the price had to be raised to $399, but she said it definitely had nothing to do with HD DVD departing.


Yeah, right...
     
exca1ibur
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Mar 13, 2008, 04:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
The disks themselves are getting cheaper and cheaper though.
50% off sale.
Amazon.com: Blu-ray up to 53% off
Amazon.com: Blu-ray up to 53% off
Amazon.com: Blu-ray up to 53% off

Terminator for $13... hmmm
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 13, 2008, 08:03 PM
 
Oh well. Not like I would want it but:

no blu-ray for xbox
     
TETENAL
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Mar 13, 2008, 08:19 PM
 
Will Microsoft continue to sell the HD DVD add-on?
     
Eug
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Mar 13, 2008, 09:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Oh well. Not like I would want it but:

no blu-ray for xbox
It will likely eventually come.

Mind you, I don't want one either (unless it's 79 bucks or something in 2009).
( Last edited by Eug; Mar 13, 2008 at 10:59 PM. )
     
mrtew
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Mar 13, 2008, 09:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
wow thanks! I just got it

I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
     
exca1ibur
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Mar 13, 2008, 09:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Will Microsoft continue to sell the HD DVD add-on?
They discontinued it two weeks ago.
     
turtle777
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Mar 13, 2008, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Bromley said she did not know why Philips decided the price had to be raised to $399, but she said it definitely had nothing to do with HD DVD departing.[/i]

Yeah, right...
Screw them all.

I'm holding off until the prices come down. And many others will.

-t
     
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Mar 14, 2008, 12:09 AM
 
I think you guys will be surprised. I think HD-DVD will make a come back in the 3rd quarter of 2008.

     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 14, 2008, 01:09 PM
 
     
Eug
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Mar 14, 2008, 03:10 PM
 
Batman Begins on Blu-ray Disc July 8

Two Blu-ray editions are in the works: a single-disc version at $28.99, and as part of a limited-edition gift set at $49.99. The gift set also includes a Batman Begins motion art lenticular, exclusive photos, script pages, storyboards, five collectible Batman Begins postcards and $7.50 in movie cash toward a Dark Knight ticket. Both the standalone version and gift set Blu-ray releases include an exclusive comic book prologue to The Dark Knight.

Warner also will re-release Batman Begins on DVD, re-packaged as a $39.92 gift set that includes a 128MB Batman flash drive, the collectible postcards and movie cash. A Warner spokesperson said the DVD includes all the content from the 2005 two-disc special edition DVD set.
     
icruise
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Mar 14, 2008, 03:13 PM
 
Good news, but these special editions sound really lame.

Two Blu-ray editions are in the works: a single-disc version at $28.99, and as part of a limited-edition gift set at $49.99. The gift set also includes a Batman Begins motion art lenticular, exclusive photos, script pages, storyboards, five collectible Batman Begins postcards and $7.50 in movie cash toward a Dark Knight ticket. Both the standalone version and gift set Blu-ray releases include an exclusive comic book prologue to The Dark Knight.

Warner also will re-release Batman Begins on DVD, re-packaged as a $39.92 gift set that includes a 128MB Batman flash drive, the collectible postcards and movie cash. A Warner spokesperson said the DVD includes all the content from the 2005 two-disc special edition DVD set.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 14, 2008, 03:32 PM
 
Ya that flash drive is lame but so is anyone who still buys DVD's
     
Eug
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Mar 14, 2008, 03:44 PM
 
They should have put a throwing star in it instead.



Or maybe you can use the flash drive as a throwing star?

     
Eug
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Mar 14, 2008, 05:08 PM
 
Hi-def sales for the week ending March 9:

65% Blu-ray vs 35% HD DVD

1) Beowulf (100)
2) 30 Days of Night (80)
3) American Gangster (70)
4) Planet Earth (51)
5) Michael Clayton (49)
     
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Mar 14, 2008, 05:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Hi-def sales for week ending March 9:


1) Beowulf (100)
2) 30 Days of Night Blu-ray (80)
3) American Gangster (70)
4) Planet Earth (51)
5) Michael Clayton (49)


65% Blu-ray vs 35% HD DVD
Oh man. HDDVD is making a comeback from the dead.
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
olePigeon
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Mar 14, 2008, 05:17 PM
 
Be nice if it did make a comeback. VHS won the consumer war in part of being cheaper than Betamax, despite Betamax being technically better.

Further evidence that retarded people decided the result of the format war is because 30 Days of Night is a best seller. Ugh.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
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Eug
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Mar 14, 2008, 05:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Be nice if it did make a comeback. VHS won the consumer war in part of being cheaper than Betamax, despite Betamax being technically better.
I didn't like beta. Technically better? Not really. The recording time of the initial players was simply too short.

As for image quality, both were about the same, at least with real-life consumer players, for a given recording time.

Oh and VHS wasn't really that much cheaper either. VHS was simply "better" in that it could handle longer recording times.
     
olePigeon
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Mar 14, 2008, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I didn't like beta. Technically better? Not really. The recording time of the initial players was simply too short.

As for image quality, both were about the same, at least with real-life consumer players, for a given recording time.
It was capable of having better image quality, it was a popular format in broadcasting. But if all things being equal, VHS would be "better" because it was cheaper.

The same can be said for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray offers almost no real advantages over HD-DVD, but it commands a much higher premium. HD-DVD discs were a little more expensive because they included a compatible DVD layer, but those prices would've dropped. Also, being able to play the HD-DVD on any player (even a Blu-Ray) is a bonus and well worth the $5 in my opinion.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
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Eug
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Mar 14, 2008, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
It was capable of having better image quality, it was a popular format in broadcasting.
Theoretically better maybe, but in real life that wasn't the case, at least with consumer players.

But if all things being equal, VHS would be "better" because it was cheaper.
After RCA intro'd their $1000 VHS player, beta dropped pricing so that it was actually slightly cheaper.

Guess what? People still bought VHS, because it was "better" with longer recording times, and equal real-life quality (in consumer players).

HD-DVD discs were a little more expensive because they included a compatible DVD layer, but those prices would've dropped. Also, being able to play the HD-DVD on any player (even a Blu-Ray) is a bonus and well worth the $5 in my opinion.
Not worth $5 IMO. I definitely like it, as it has proven very convenient with my Star Trek HD DVDs, but I don't think it makes sense for a combo disc to cost 25% more (ie. say $24.99 vs. $19.99).
     
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Mar 15, 2008, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Oh well. Not like I would want it but:

no blu-ray for xbox
That doesn't sound much different than what they said about HD DVD. There's nothing in that article to preclude them releasing an external drive.
     
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Mar 15, 2008, 04:44 PM
 
     
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Mar 15, 2008, 11:45 PM
 
     
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Mar 16, 2008, 10:35 PM
 
According to Hollywood insider Penton-Man on Blu-ray.com, DTS HD MA support is coming to Blu-ray via a firmware update soon.

Blu-ray Forum - View Single Post - "Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"
I will tell you though that it is a certainty that the PS3 will get DTS HD MA.
Well, let me rephrase as the only certainties in life are death and taxes.

I say you can pretty much hang your hat on getting the above with a future firmware upgrade for the Playstation 3.
My "game console" purchase keeps on getting better and better.
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Mar 17, 2008, 01:11 AM
 
what's a DTS HD MA?
     
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Mar 17, 2008, 01:58 AM
 
Digital Theater System - High Definition Master Audio

More...
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 17, 2008, 01:47 PM
 
Come to think of it Sony might be keeping stand alone BR players high to encourage PS3 sales which is fine by me as it is the best player on the market anyway.
     
Eug
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Mar 17, 2008, 02:21 PM
 
Zip.ca Blu-ray deal of the week - I Am Legend

At Zip.ca we love Blu-ray. We love it so much that we want to give you a good reason to make Zip.ca your source for Blu-ray rentals and purchase. Each Tuesday we're selling the week's hottest title for $10. $10 dollars (plus tax), free shipping and no strings attached. Seriously.

Here's how it works:

- Each Friday at noon we'll announce the next title for sale at the special price.

- Then at 12:00 pm ET on Tuesday it's available to buy - the week's hottest Blu-ray disc for the incredibly low price of $10 plus tax.

- There are a limited number of copies available and when they're gone, they're gone!
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 17, 2008, 02:37 PM
 
That's cool but that movie sucked.
     
Eug
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Mar 17, 2008, 04:52 PM
 
New movie (hopefully) every week.
     
aristotles
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Mar 17, 2008, 05:01 PM
 
Well I already order I Am Legend from Amazon.com for 18.95 USD as part of a larger order but thanks for the heads up.
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icruise
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Mar 18, 2008, 12:07 AM
 
Right now at Amazon, the pricing for Planet Earth goes like this:

HD-DVD: $44.99
Blu-ray: $49.95
DVD: $54.99

I think the Blu-ray price is because of sale Best Buy is running, but still it's interesting to see it less than the DVD price.
     
mrtew
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Mar 18, 2008, 06:07 AM
 
That's a good idea... keep the price of Blu-rays higher so they seem like they are worth more and of higher value, but put them on sale a lot so they are actually less money to buy and catch on faster! Brilliant! I should have gone to marketing school and made something of myself!

I love the U.S., but we need some time apart.
     
Eug
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Mar 19, 2008, 12:38 AM
 
Sweet. Roxio Toast 9 Titanium (with the HD/BD plug-in) burns both Blu-ray and HD DVD hi-def on standard DVDs.

The cool part of this is I believe that such HD DVDs may work in any recent Mac (assuming they're doing it with H.264 or MPEG2).

At this point it would make more sense in some ways to burn Blu-ray on DVD instead of HD DVD on DVD, but DVD Player.app can't read Blu-ray yet.

The new HD/BD plug-in for Toast 9 gives users the ability to author high definition video content on to Blu-ray, or even standard DVD discs! Take high-def video footage from AVCHD camcorders, TiVo and EyeTV and create Blu-ray discs that can be played on any standard Blu-ray set top box or Playstation3 game console. Did you invest in HD DVD? The HD/BD Plug-in even supports HD DVD formats and disc players.
     
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Mar 19, 2008, 12:40 AM
 
does the xbox HD thing work without an xbox, iow, as a stand alone player?
     
Eug
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Mar 19, 2008, 12:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
does the xbox HD thing work without an xbox, iow, as a stand alone player?
Nope. You can use it with Windows and PowerDVD though.
     
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Mar 19, 2008, 01:00 AM
 
sucks. they have a manager special on an opened box one at my best buy for $50.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 19, 2008, 01:14 AM
 
So wait? What would you do with this? Does anyone have an HD burner?
     
Eug
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Mar 19, 2008, 07:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
So wait? What would you do with this? Does anyone have an HD burner?
That's the beauty of it. With Toast 9 and BD/HD plug-in, almost EVERYONE has an HD DVD burner, cuz you can burn these discs to DVD-R.

It should work for Blu-ray as well, although I'm a little unclear on how it works for Blu-ray on DVD, and if the discs are 100% compatible on all players. (It should eventually be though, if it isn't already.)

Somebody with a PS3 (ie. you aS), please give it a shot. I'll try it with HD DVD when I get the chance.

The main problem though is recording time. 30 minutes on DVD-5 (and presumably 60 minutes on DVD-9). I wonder if you can downrez the video to 720p, cuz if so, that would give you a lot more space.


Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² View Post
sucks. they have a manager special on an opened box one at my best buy for $50.
That's what a lot of places are selling it for, with some places selling the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive for $40. In fact, the Venturer standalone HD DVD player going for $70, and it comes with 2 free movies in the box.
( Last edited by Eug; Mar 19, 2008 at 08:48 AM. )
     
Eug
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Mar 19, 2008, 08:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Sweet. Roxio Toast 9 Titanium (with the HD/BD plug-in) burns both Blu-ray and HD DVD hi-def on standard DVDs.

The cool part of this is I believe that such HD DVDs may work in any recent Mac (assuming they're doing it with H.264 or MPEG2).

At this point it would make more sense in some ways to burn Blu-ray on DVD instead of HD DVD on DVD, but DVD Player.app can't read Blu-ray yet.

The new HD/BD plug-in for Toast 9 gives users the ability to author high definition video content on to Blu-ray, or even standard DVD discs! Take high-def video footage from AVCHD camcorders, TiVo and EyeTV and create Blu-ray discs that can be played on any standard Blu-ray set top box or Playstation3 game console. Did you invest in HD DVD? The HD/BD Plug-in even supports HD DVD formats and disc players.
Awesome: These HD DVDs have been confirmed to work in OS X's DVD Player.app.

All of us now have a way of burning hi-def discs for playback on our Macs, without having to resort to DVD Studio Pro.
     
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Mar 19, 2008, 12:38 PM
 
the xbox player i saw said that the hd version of king kong comes with it inside. if it's an open boxed item though....
     
Eug
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Mar 19, 2008, 01:05 PM
 
I applaud the work these guys do, but nonetheless I find them too annoyingly self-congratulatory.

Antigua, West Indies - March, 19th 2008

AnyDVD HD now with BD+ support

Film studios that have switched to Blu-ray may have crowed a little
too early because the much-praised BD+ copy protection is an ad
absurdum affair now, too. With today's release of version 6.4.0.0 of
AnyDVD HD it is now also possible to make backup security copies of
Blu-ray discs protected with BD+.

Richard Doherty of the Envisioneering Group will have to revise his
statement from July, 2007 regarding BD+: "BD+, unlike AACS which
suffered a partial hack last year, won't likely be breached for 10
years". It is worth mentioning that since he made that statement only
eight months have gone by.

Peer van Heuen, head of High-Definition technologies at SlySoft adds:
"Admittedly, we are not really so fast with this because actually we
had intended to publish this release already in December as promised.
However, it was decided for strategic reasons to wait a bit for the
outcome of the "format war" between HD DVD and Blu-ray. On top of
that, we first wanted to see our assumptions confirmed about the in
the meantime released BD+ titles regarding the BD+ Virtual Machine. We
are rather proud to have brought back to earth the highly-praised and
previously "unbreakable" BD+. However, we must also admit that the
Blu-ray titles released up to now have not fully exploited the
possibilities of BD+. Future releases will undoubtedly have a modified
and more polished BD+ protection, but we are well prepared for this
and await the coming developments rather relaxed". Van Heuen adds
jokingly: "The worst-case scenario then is our boss locks us up with
only bread and water in the company dungeon for three months until we
are successful again".

Giancarlo Bettini, SlySoft CEO, adds, "We are convinced that today's
release will give the high-density market new impulse. It remains
unclear just what direction this will take. On the one hand, it can
give Blu-ray a boost because the end-user has the certainty in knowing
now that a backup security copy can also be made from Blu-ray disks
protected by BD+. On the other hand, one or more film studios may want
to reconsider their withdrawal from HD DVD and Toshiba could also
grant the high-density DVD a reprieve. HD DVD certainly deserves a
second chance, particularly since HD DVD hardware has obtained a
higher market share within the last months than its BD counterpart
from SONY. In any event, I wish all those involved a happy Easter from
the bottom of my heart."
     
Eug
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Mar 19, 2008, 01:25 PM
 
Apparently, all BD+ discs are fully broken now, except Hitman:

AnyDVD still doesn't have the full BD+ command set built in.
It has all required "features" that are required for the first wave of BD+ titles.

Hitman obviously utilizes more of that BD+ command set.
We'll know more, when I see that disc.
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Mar 19, 2008, 01:29 PM
 
     
 
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