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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 155)
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starman
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Mar 24, 2008, 11:37 AM
 
Anything is possible, but I don't see why Sony would bother implementing it. If you borrowed the movie, then Sony would probably feel that they'd need to charge a rental fee for the borrow. If you rented it, Sony has no way of knowing if you borrowed or rented it, and they'll probably charge you anyway.

So again, I don't see the point.

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analogue SPRINKLES
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starman
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Mar 24, 2008, 12:53 PM
 
Anyone see a BR burner for under $250 yet? I see they're $375 now but I think somewhere between $199 and $249 is my magic number.

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goMac
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Mar 24, 2008, 01:11 PM
 
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exca1ibur
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Mar 24, 2008, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Anyone see a BR burner for under $250 yet? I see they're $375 now but I think somewhere between $199 and $249 is my magic number.
This is the cheapest I can find so far. $334. It also is an HD-DVD ROM.

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analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 24, 2008, 01:44 PM
 
So what. Their loss. BR will do just fine without the Xbox.
     
mrtew
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Mar 24, 2008, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Anything is possible, but I don't see why Sony would bother implementing it. If you borrowed the movie, then Sony would probably feel that they'd need to charge a rental fee for the borrow. If you rented it, Sony has no way of knowing if you borrowed or rented it, and they'll probably charge you anyway.

So again, I don't see the point.
I don't know where you're getting this stuff about Sony charging me for anything and I don't know why you can't see the point of an easy new feature that is free and benefits everyone but please don't post that you don't see the point again without at least thinking about it and explaining what you mean. I don't see the point of that. I explained in great detail how it helps me and Sony and Blockbuster. Are you a HD-DVD fanboy or something? :-]

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starman
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Mar 24, 2008, 03:49 PM
 
How does it help Sony and Blockbuster? If your friend paid for a movie, and you take it and copy it, how does that help Sony and BB? Sony loses a sale because you didn't pay to see the movie, and BB doesn't make money because you didn't rent it from their store. You essentially stole a copy to watch.

Your exact words:

Is it possible or will it be possible to copy Blu-ray films onto the PS3 itself? So you can rent or borrow a movie and then watch it a few weeks later after you've taken it back?
The "borrow" part is what I have the biggest problem with. Sony gains NOTHING from letting you borrow a friend's disc and copying it to the hard drive. Please explain how this helps Sony.

Rentals have been based on the amount of time given to watch a movie since rental stores opened in the early 80's. That's not going to change and offers nothing to BB because they make their money on re-renting it if a movie isn't watched in the given time.

Get it now?

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analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 24, 2008, 03:50 PM
 
( Last edited by analogue SPRINKLES; Mar 24, 2008 at 04:04 PM. )
     
Eug
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Mar 24, 2008, 04:29 PM
 
It seems rather pointless to rent a Blu-ray movie so you can get the PSP version.

If you're gonna do that, you may as well rent the DVD instead and rip it.


Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Heh.
     
mrtew
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Mar 24, 2008, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
How does it help Sony and Blockbuster? If your friend paid for a movie, and you take it and copy it, how does that help Sony and BB? Sony loses a sale because you didn't pay to see the movie, and BB doesn't make money because you didn't rent it from their store. You essentially stole a copy to watch. The "borrow" part is what I have the biggest problem with. Sony gains NOTHING from letting you borrow a friend's disc and copying it to the hard drive. Please explain how this helps Sony.
It helps Sony because they sell more PS3s. It's a great new free feature that makes their product more attractive. It helps Blockbuster because it makes people more likely to rent videos. I was there today and saw three Blu-rays that I kinda wanted to see but since the long weekend is now over I don't know when I'll get a chance to watch them. If I had that feature I might have gotten one or all of them and loaded them onto my PS3 for later. Since I don't I didn't get them and who knows if I ever will go back and rent them or not. I lost. Blockbuster lost. And Sony lost a few sales from people that would have bought the PS3 if it did have the feature. Also I can borrow Blu-rays from my friends and watch them already so is it really going to cost more sales if I can keep it on my hard drive for a little while? Or does it just increase the sales because the movies are more useful now? I'm more likely to buy movies if they are less restricted. Does that make any sense or do you just want to argue that wonderful free new features that benefit everyone are pointless.

Originally Posted by starman View Post
Rentals have been based on the amount of time given to watch a movie since rental stores opened in the early 80's. That's not going to change and offers nothing to BB because they make their money on re-renting it if a movie isn't watched in the given time.
It's already changed. Blockbuster used to charge your azz double if you kept a video for an extra day and now they have no late fees even if you keep if a week or two. They agree with what I'm saying. People would like a little freedom as to when to watch a movie and giving it to them will help sales. You haven't been to blockbuster recently, they are much better now. They even volunteer that you have an extra week before they charge you a re-stocking fee now.

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jokell82
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Mar 24, 2008, 05:55 PM
 
mrtew that doesn't make much sense. Essentially what you're saying is you'd like to temporarily pirate a movie and you hope Sony and Blockbuster would just be cool about it, because you're just going to delete it later.

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starman
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Mar 24, 2008, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
mrtew that doesn't make much sense. Essentially what you're saying is you'd like to temporarily pirate a movie and you hope Sony and Blockbuster would just be cool about it, because you're just going to delete it later.
That's a different way of looking at it, but kinda true.

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olePigeon
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Mar 24, 2008, 07:03 PM
 
I like that the encryption has been cracked. When I start buying a few HD movies, I want to be able to rip them to my media center so I can watch them with my other movies. I don't want to have to buy a new one if someone steps on the DVD and breaks it, or if it becomes really scratch and unplayable. I like future-proofing my investments.

Besides, I can't imagine a 500-disc carousel Blu-Ray player would be cheaper than a couple terabyte hard drives. It's also be a lot slower than iTunes (and no cover artwork.)
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mrtew
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Mar 24, 2008, 09:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
mrtew that doesn't make much sense. Essentially what you're saying is you'd like to temporarily pirate a movie and you hope Sony and Blockbuster would just be cool about it, because you're just going to delete it later.
Arguing about what pirating is and isn't can go on forever, but if I rent a movie and don't watch it till after I take it back is that really pirating? Or if I watch it 7 times during the two weeks I've rented it and then another time after I've returned it? If I borrow a movie from someone for a week is that pirating? If I borrow it from them overnight and then watch it a week later, then it is? You guys are planning on illegally ripping 500 movies to your terabyte drives! And the feature I think Sony should add to the PS3 makes me the pirate!!!

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jokell82
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Mar 24, 2008, 10:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
Arguing about what pirating is and isn't can go on forever, but if I rent a movie and don't watch it till after I take it back is that really pirating?
Yes.
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
Or if I watch it 7 times during the two weeks I've rented it and then another time after I've returned it?
Yep
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
If I borrow a movie from someone for a week is that pirating?
Nope
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
If I borrow it from them overnight and then watch it a week later, then it is?
Yessir
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
You guys are planning on illegally ripping 500 movies to your terabyte drives! And the feature I think Sony should add to the PS3 makes me the pirate!!!
Ripping movies you own for personal playback is considered fair use, as long as you still own the original media. But if you sell that media or give it away, you are obligated to delete your copy or buy another licensed copy.

Now you can argue all day long that none of these scenarios are *morally* wrong, but they are technically an infringement of copyright.

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mrtew
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Mar 24, 2008, 11:22 PM
 
Well if all of copy-write law is based on where the hard copy is then now wonder you're so excited about downloads! Bring em on!

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analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 24, 2008, 11:59 PM
 
PS3 2.20 firmware with BR 2.0 spec is now out.
     
Chongo
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Mar 25, 2008, 12:40 AM
 
downloading now
     
olePigeon
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Mar 25, 2008, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
You guys are planning on illegally ripping 500 movies to your terabyte drives! And the feature I think Sony should add to the PS3 makes me the pirate!!!
In the United States, there's a "Fair Use Copyright Act" which entitles a person to make 1 backup copy of copyrighted works they've purchased (DVDs, CDs, etc.) However, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act states it is illegal to circumvent DRM and encryption even to make a personal backup copy.

So it's illegal to circumvent the DRM to rip the DVD, but it's not illegal to have a backup copy. There's a relatively new law being proposed that you'd really want to push your congressman or congresswoman to support: H.R.1201, or the Digital Media Consumer Rights Act. This is a clarification to the DMCA that circumvention of DRM and encryption is acceptable as long as it doesn't violate the copyright.
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analogue SPRINKLES
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starman
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Mar 25, 2008, 03:06 PM
 
I noticed that some of the .VOB files that were flickering with the previous firmware now play properly. Woot!

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analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 25, 2008, 04:47 PM
 
THX Chief Scientist: "It's too late for Blu-ray" - Engadget HD

I'm thinkning more and more that in 3 years he will be right. Even now I am thinking how I would love to rip my 400 DVD and put them on a couple externals terabyte drives and just watch them though an, xbox, appleTV or PS3.

The cost of investment is pretty damn low to set that up.
     
Chuckit
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Mar 25, 2008, 05:01 PM
 
The feature being discussed here, where you can keep a movie as long as you want and watch it whenever, is called "buying." This is already implemented for Blu-Ray.
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analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 28, 2008, 02:58 PM
 
Oh boy.
     
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My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
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Mar 28, 2008, 03:36 PM
 
so my 5 hddvds are collector items now?! sweet!!
     
pooka
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Mar 28, 2008, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I'm thinkning more and more that in 3 years he will be right. Even now I am thinking how I would love to rip my 400 DVD and put them on a couple externals terabyte drives and just watch them though an, xbox, appleTV or PS3.
Didn't you guys call me a pirate when I noted Sony's draconian DRM history and how it would likely conflict with your desires?

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brassplayersrock²
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Mar 28, 2008, 05:48 PM
 
^ sweet, you can even use a PS2 remote. that receiver/transmitter is a nifty lil device
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Mar 28, 2008, 06:45 PM
 
"Ekland also demonstrated that a Sony PSP, put it into to USB transfer mode with a PlayStation 3, was able to transfer a special portable version of the whole film to the PSP. Ekland noted that it will take less than three minutes to to transfer a typical film and that there are currently 25 million PSPs worldwide now that can take advantage of this feature."

All the live features sound like crap except this one which is just meh.
"Another Devlin film coming out soon on Blu-ray, Men in Black, was loaded and used to demonstrate a trivia game. It was similar to the game “Scene It” in that clips from the movie were shown and two players with their BD remotes or PS3 controllers attempt to answer questions".

Never time to watch the same movie at the same time with a friend but those who do are all set.

The BD-Live Roll Out | Blu-ray Stats News Log
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Apr 3, 2008, 12:06 PM
 
If there is one way to use BR live poorly this is it:
Walk Hard's BD-Live features get tested on Sony's PS3 - Engadget HD

I mean why in the name of hell put downloadable trailers online and not on the giant disks themselves?
     
jokell82
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Apr 3, 2008, 12:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
If there is one way to use BR live poorly this is it:
Walk Hard's BD-Live features get tested on Sony's PS3 - Engadget HD

I mean why in the name of hell put downloadable trailers online and not on the giant disks themselves?
Maybe they maxed out the video/audio bit rate and had no room for 'em? But even still we're talking about a few megs each - that's pretty silly.

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analogue SPRINKLES
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Apr 3, 2008, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
Maybe they maxed out the video/audio bit rate and had no room for 'em? But even still we're talking about a few megs each - that's pretty silly.
Are you kidding? No way they could max out a 50 gig disk with a silly movie like that. The real reason is they wanted to use Live features but are all horribly uncreative people.
     
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brassplayersrock²
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Apr 6, 2008, 08:17 PM
 
Comments : *Blu-ray disc Recordable - write-once
**Blu-ray disc Rewritable
***Blu-ray disc Read Only Memory
See Apple for the BD player release date
1 GB = 1,000,000,000 bytes. Total accessible media capacity varies depending upon operating environment.
LaCie - d2 Blu-ray Drive - USB 2.0 & FireWire (it's under specs)

hmmm, anyone else getting any ideas?
     
powerbook867
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Apr 6, 2008, 09:05 PM
 
WOW! 729.. ouch

Would the idea be selling a kidney?
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brassplayersrock²
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Apr 6, 2008, 09:28 PM
 
noo, look closer at my post
     
residentEvil
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apple and blu-ray no way?
     
BasketofPuppies
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Apr 7, 2008, 12:50 PM
 
Would a moderator please put this thread out of its misery?

Because, you know, Blu-ray won. That kind of makes this thread finished.
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icruise
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Apr 7, 2008, 10:40 PM
 
It's still a good catch-all thread for HD-related topics. I don't see any reason to kill the thread if people are still using it to conduct on-topic discussion.
     
ajprice
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Apr 8, 2008, 03:49 AM
 
^^ What he said. No need for thread death.

Or rename the thread -
"So Blu-Ray won the format war... Now what?"

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
mrtew
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Apr 8, 2008, 06:41 AM
 
at least let it get to 200 pages before you kill it!

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ajprice
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Apr 8, 2008, 07:18 AM
 
The thing holding back download movies and tv is the speed of the internet and the cost of the broadband. A lot of packages have a Gb per month limit on usage, download a few TV shows or movies and you're over, and the internet speed is lucky to be 8mbit (in this country anyway), so movies will take a while to come down to your system. Until that gets sorted, there's a place for physical media.

Anyone got sales figures for Blu-Ray vs downloads? Might be their next battle.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
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Apr 8, 2008, 09:33 AM
 
I like ajprice's suggestion to rename the thread to something that reflects the reality of the contest. But I'd also like to point out that "winning" the HD/BR war has meant something for us, the consumers: higher prices for BR players. Way to go, Sony! Stick it to the people that pay your bills. It's not just the lack of competition either, at least in my view-it feels a lot like gouging. My question about all this is how Sony and the whole BR consortium could further gouge consumers on downloaded products? Do they license the format, or is it an open standard? CAN they gouge us on downloads?

On the plus side, I just bought another HD-DVD movie over the weekend, at a really nice price. I guess that's going to go on for some time, as inventories are depleted.

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starman
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Apr 8, 2008, 09:34 AM
 
Ok, here's the problem with the current thread....

It's 155 pages long and the bulk of it is about the war.

Can we LOCK IT and create a new thread please? Who wants to wade through 155 pages of crap?

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jokell82
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Apr 8, 2008, 09:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Ok, here's the problem with the current thread....

It's 155 pages long and the bulk of it is about the war.

Can we LOCK IT and create a new thread please? Who wants to wade through 155 pages of crap?
Is it that hard to click "Last Page"???

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starman
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Apr 8, 2008, 09:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
Is it that hard to click "Last Page"???
Oh come now, do you really think that this is a thread worth keeping? It's mostly bickering about a format war. Let. It. Die.

And duh, no, it's not hard to click "last page", but WHERE DO YOU TELL PEOPLE TO START READING?

"Hi and welcome to the old-but-new HD thread which was really about the HD-DVD/BR War. Please start reading on page 152. Well, if you changed your settings to have a different number of pages per thread than it won't be 152"

Get it?

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