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Sleeping Advice
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Athens
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Sep 27, 2011, 01:04 PM
 
Been having major issues sleeping and I am not one for taking sleeping pills. I am willing to try other things so any advice would be great. I've tried turning off all light sources, and making my room as dark as possible. But I'm still stuck falling asleep at 4 am which really sucks when you wake up at 7am. I'm going to try some tea before bed tonight. Any other ideas or natural methods?
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
sek929
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Sep 27, 2011, 01:25 PM
 
Exercise.

If you wear yourself out physically during the day you will pass out as soon as you hit the pillow.
     
SSharon
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Sep 27, 2011, 01:31 PM
 
Athens, can you share any other details? What time do you eat dinner? Do you have caffeine throughout the day?
AT&T iPhone 5S and 6; 13" MBP; MDD G4.
     
olePigeon
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Sep 27, 2011, 01:54 PM
 
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Athens  (op)
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Sep 27, 2011, 02:05 PM
 
Don't matter how beat I am, I could have been hiking all day and still end up being wide awake at night. The odd thing is im tired from 5-9 and can easily fall asleep for a couple hours then but once it hits midnight I'm wide awake.

Don't normally eat past 9 sometimes 10, was off caffeine for a good 8 months and for the last couple weeks been drinking it again but Ive had this sleeping problem for a few months now.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2011, 02:11 PM
 
Sounds like you're a night person.
     
bstone
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Sep 27, 2011, 02:49 PM
 
What is your night routine like? Do you hang out in your room? Use your laptop in bed? There is an idea called 'sleep hygiene'. Basically, you need to make your bedroom and bed places that are easy to sleep in. I used to have major problems sleeping and would be up all night, but then I realized the problem. I was using my laptop in bed, hanging out in my bedroom and generally not making my room conducive for sleeping. Now I *only* sleep in my room. I never bring my laptop in my room and never hang out in it. Now when I lay down to sleep it takes me 10 minutes before I am in dreamland.

Try it out and let me know how it works out for you.
     
Athens  (op)
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Sep 27, 2011, 03:28 PM
 
I am a night person, always have been but I used to be able to fall asleep by at least 2. My ADHD also causes problems with a racing mind, im always thinking about a dozen things at a time. Just don't know why it takes 2 more hours to fall asleep when nothing in my life has really changed to cause it.

I thought it might have been the fir from the Animals, both the cat and dog are shedding but I spent the weekend getting ALL the hair out and its not helping. Just makes no sense. I might just have to go see my doctor to get refereed to a sleep specialist but I really don't want to be put on any kind of drugs. Addictive personality, I like to avoid most medications.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 27, 2011, 03:31 PM
 
When I have problems like this, the main hurdle is not taking that nap after I get home to make up for getting 3 hours of sleep the night before. Worse, those first few nights even when you're not taking naps, you'll still get that second wind around the time you'd like to go to sleep. You just have to power through somehow.
     
Sealobo
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Sep 27, 2011, 03:35 PM
 
exercise.

/thread.
     
Gankdawg
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Sep 28, 2011, 12:48 AM
 
No eating after 6PM. Switch to a high protein diet. 100+ ounces of water a day, no carbonated or caffeinated drinks.

Regular exercise routine but not in the evenings.

Melatonin supplement before bed. It's not a sleeping pill.
     
subego
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Sep 28, 2011, 03:33 AM
 
They make tiny, battery operated LED lightboxes for people with SAD, and screwy circadian rhythms (the Phillips GoLight is what I have IIRC). Innit cloudy all the time in Vancouver? That would **** me up.

The lightbox worked for me FWIW, the only problem I found is you need to sit still by the sucker for a half hour, and I'm too antsy. I'm considering getting some grow lights so I can have the same effect while pacing all over the place.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 28, 2011, 04:24 AM
 
Beer always makes me sleepy.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 28, 2011, 09:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Gankdawg View Post
No eating after 6PM.
Ha! I haven't been home before 6 in a while.

(I like to eat late anyway. The majority of my meals come after 7 PM, and have for probably a decade now).
     
brassplayersrock²
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Sep 28, 2011, 09:48 AM
 
Making wrongs right usually helps.
     
iMOTOR
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Sep 28, 2011, 05:58 PM
 
I’ve been taking these:

http://www.amazon.com/Schiff-Melaton...7246552&sr=8-1

If I forget to take them at about 9-9:30pm, then end up laying in bed wired till about 2am.

I bike 20 miles several times a week, and even on those days, I will still end up laying awake if I don’t take the melatonin plus.
     
bstone
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Sep 28, 2011, 06:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
What is your night routine like? Do you hang out in your room? Use your laptop in bed? There is an idea called 'sleep hygiene'. Basically, you need to make your bedroom and bed places that are easy to sleep in. I used to have major problems sleeping and would be up all night, but then I realized the problem. I was using my laptop in bed, hanging out in my bedroom and generally not making my room conducive for sleeping. Now I *only* sleep in my room. I never bring my laptop in my room and never hang out in it. Now when I lay down to sleep it takes me 10 minutes before I am in dreamland.

Try it out and let me know how it works out for you.
Athens, can you describe for the above?
     
ghporter
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Sep 29, 2011, 07:02 AM
 
Melatonin has helped me with really big sleep problems, but the biggest help was working on clearing my mind before bed. It was never that I wasn't tired, but mostly that I couldn't get my thoughts to slow down. Anything that helps you relax your mind will be helpful, whether it's light reading, listening to soothing music, or meditation. It also helps to establish a solid routine for "going to bed," which includes a fairly fixed time you begin your preparations, a pretty consistent time you actually turn off the lights, and so on.

And if you don't fall asleep after 30-45 minutes, it's OK to get up and do something that will help you relax. Don't engage in activities that increase your alertness, like watching television or playing a video game. Instead, do a crossword puzzle or read short articles. Give yourself an hour to get relaxed, and then try to go to bed again.

It can take 25 to 50 repetitions of a planned routine to turn it into a habit that is self-sustaining, so be patient with establishing your "set routine."

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
olePigeon
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Sep 29, 2011, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gankdawg View Post
Melatonin supplement before bed. It's not a sleeping pill.
I'd be very careful about taking melatonin. First and foremost, melatonin is a hormone. Don't f*ck with it unless your doctor prescribes it to you (which no doctor does.)

Secondly, it was only postulated that melatonin may be involved in circadian rhythm (your day/night cycle), but further studies revealed that it is actually your central nervous system that controls nearly all of your wake and sleep functions.

And third, melatonin does not affect your sleep cycle. Your melatonin receptors work when your NCS signals for melatonin, not because you took a melatonin pill. 90% of melatonin is cleared through your liver, with majority of the remaining amount passed through urine. You only have a certain amount of melatonin receptors, taking more melatonin will not increase the absorption rate.

It is only recently that melatonin overdose has become a problem thanks to the unregulated dietary supplement industry, and the side effects look very grim. From relatively simple lethargy to suicide. We didn't even know how to test for toxicity levels of melatonin before those idiots started selling it as a pill.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Athens  (op)
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Sep 29, 2011, 12:53 PM
 
Can't get Melatonin in Canada with out a prescription.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Sep 29, 2011, 01:18 PM
 
As a fellow person with ADD, it usually takes and hour of just lying in a dark quiet room for my mind to stop spinning and fall to sleep. Stress makes it worse. During college comprehensives I was getting 3 hours a night. I don't know if the stress insomnia is related to ADD or not. It's not linked to physical fatigue though. On rough work days when I'm mentally spent get to sleep quicker.
     
subego
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Sep 29, 2011, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Can't get Melatonin in Canada with out a prescription.
Would that be difficult?
     
Athens  (op)
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Sep 29, 2011, 01:38 PM
 
Prob since doctors have no financial incentive to write prescriptions that people don't need. Unless my doctor really thought it would be helpful, no chance at all I will get one. After looking up more about it as well I wouldn't want it anyways.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
subego
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Sep 29, 2011, 01:42 PM
 
Should you change your mind, I'd be shocked if you couldn't get some form of grey market import.
     
Lateralus
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Sep 29, 2011, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Beer always makes me sleepy.
Yupp. A beer or two within 30 minutes or so of intending to go to bed works wonders for me.
I like chicken
I like liver
Meow Mix, Meow Mix
Please de-liv-er
     
Athens  (op)
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Sep 29, 2011, 02:43 PM
 
Works for me to but its not something I want to do nightly just to sleep. Every one in my family are drunks, its why im careful about any substance. I would trade my entire left ARM to quit smoking for good.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
CollinG3G4
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Sep 29, 2011, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Works for me to but its not something I want to do nightly just to sleep. Every one in my family are drunks, its why im careful about any substance. I would trade my entire left ARM to quit smoking for good.

How the hell did you expect to keep up with P90X as a smoker?
     
Athens  (op)
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Sep 29, 2011, 03:13 PM
 
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Sep 29, 2011, 04:34 PM
 
It sounds like you need to talk to a doctor. You'll probably get better results than crowd sourcing it. It could be a symptom of an actually hormone problem (or a brain tumor.)
     
Gankdawg
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Sep 30, 2011, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Ha! I haven't been home before 6 in a while.

(I like to eat late anyway. The majority of my meals come after 7 PM, and have for probably a decade now).
OK, try not eating anything 3 hours before you go to bed.

And, FWIW, the best sleep I've gotten is when I was doing the Atkins diet.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 30, 2011, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gankdawg View Post
OK, try not eating anything 3 hours before you go to bed.

And, FWIW, the best sleep I've gotten is when I was doing the Atkins diet.
Hmmm... considering that's between midnight and one, I'd say I accomplish that at least 2/3rds of time. Not bad.
     
Demonhood
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Sep 30, 2011, 02:52 PM
 
Don't look into a screen an hour before bed (activates your brain).
Use your bed for sleep, sex, and maybe some reading.
Don't rely on alcohol to make you drowsy. It's not a good long term solution.
Change your sheets regularly.

Like Gankdawg, maybe diet is a big factor. Try Atkins or Paleo (did this earlier in the year) and see how you feel. Cut out food groups one by one to see what affects you. Dairy, grains, etc. Maybe you're slightly allergic and you just don't know it.
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 30, 2011, 03:32 PM
 
I have difficulty sleeping frequently, but I know my bad habit is what I've used as a cure: falling asleep watching TV. Watching TV helps shuts off the nagging worrying that keeps me up when I try to sleep in bed, but it also keeps me awake longer and is more uncomfortable on the couch.

I did a webinar at work that had a few helpful tips:

Breathing through your nose
relaxing one muscle group at a time, slowly, head to toe
     
olePigeon
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Sep 30, 2011, 04:28 PM
 
Reading puts me to sleep, rather unfortunately. The motion of my eyes makes me sleepy. I'm surprised I did so well in English class considering I was falling asleep half the time.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Athens  (op)
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Sep 30, 2011, 05:27 PM
 
TV has been my best method until recently.
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
jmiddel
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Sep 30, 2011, 09:20 PM
 
I know a bunch of people who do not sleep because something is bothering them and they don't know it. I try to hold on to to a scene that I like that involves me doing something easy, gratifying and aggressive, like imagining hacking XYZ, choose your target, and messing with the offending humans. in the greater good, of course
     
calverson
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Oct 1, 2011, 01:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sealobo View Post
sexercise.

/thread.
Fixed that for you.
     
Athens  (op)
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Oct 1, 2011, 08:05 AM
 
5am and still wide awake, sigh
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
Athens  (op)
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Oct 5, 2011, 03:09 AM
 
I got a prescription for Zopiclone today from my doctor and after reading the Wiki page on it im really not sure about taking them. Some of the effects last up to a YEAR

Zopiclone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Has any one here ever used this stuff?
Blandine Bureau 1940 - 2011
Missed 2012 by 3 days, RIP Grandma :-(
     
polendo
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Oct 6, 2011, 05:04 PM
 
I think you should follow your Dr´s instructions. They know best. I´m aprehensive on taking medicines to sleep but I have read lots of times that is worse NOT to sleep than taking medicine to help you rest.
Fortunately, I do not have such a problem (a few ocassions a year) but I had other problems like colitis and pre hypertension which in some way relates to stress and the need to erradicate them.
Some habits I changed to help me thru that:

1. BY all means try to slow down your mental activity. I , like some guys already said, couldn´t slow down thinking all sorts of things at any time. What I did is to mentally create a mental shut down switch from things of the office and ONLY think about things that I like. I like cars, so at night instead of counting sheep I imagine driving a white Porsche on a coastline.

2. Cut down the caffeine, nicotine and sodium. Sodas, coffee, cigarrettes need to be controlled and brought to a reasonable level. Try not to consume those at the evening.

3. Excercise. Here you need to be clever. If you excercise too much after work your body will demand to rest. The problem with that is if you over do it your brain will make your muscles rest first and afterwhile goes your brain´s chance to do so. So, having said that.. try excercising normally and not over do it so that your body feels the need to recover and after a while will cause your brain to relax.

4. Get dinner not so late. Similar to over excercising at night. If you have a heavy dinner your body will be too busy digesting your food and your brain will stay wake. In other words.. have breakfast like a king, supper like a champ and dinner as a beggar.

5. Tea. A cup of chamomile tea in the afternoon is great for relaxing your stomach. A cup of tea at night called 7 azares or (7 blossoms) tea is great for relaxing at night. One before trying to sleep is great. Lots of medicines come from the same ingredients as tea. The guy from Napster (Sean) brews his own tea.. that guy knows it. Lettuce helps also getting sleepy. Dressing on lettuce doesn´t help.

6. Don´t think that you won´t be able to sleep. If you think negative you can be sure you won´t sleep at all. So think that you will get a good night rest.

Good luck! and tell us how it went
     
   
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