[mattyb]

My son is 7 - his birthday was this week. He's being bullied by a kid a school who is in the class above him. This kid is 'special'. He only attends school in the mornings because he causes problems. He's pushed teachers, he's thrown stuff at other students. Every parent I know, who has kids the same age as my daughter (10) and son, has a story to tell about this kid. This kid's mother is president of the Parents-Teachers Association. He has a younger brother (5) who is completely normal. I found out tonight that he threatened to kill my son.

I have my own ideas about what should be done. I'd like to hear yours.

[Mike Wuerthele]

Law enforcement. It's time.

No kidding. Threats to kill your kid - zero tolerance. Call the school as a courtesy, tell them that you're involving the cops.

[Waragainstsleep]

Kids threaten to kill each other all the time. You can't dismiss it but the school will be against you if you go steaming in with the cops without talking to them first.

So PTA lady, did she take this position in order to try to protect her son from exactly this sort of thing? Just wondering if there is a history of her getting him off the hook using her influence.

[Mike Wuerthele]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Kids threaten to kill each other all the time. You can't dismiss it but the school will be against you if you go steaming in with the cops without talking to them first.

So PTA lady, did she take this position in order to try to protect her son from exactly this sort of thing? Just wondering if there is a history of her getting him off the hook using her influence.

Yeah, that's my issue. Favorite Mom, favored son. The school hasn't done anything NOW, so by definition, they're against the bullied.

Cops time.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by EstaNightshift 

Law enforcement. It's time.

No kidding. Threats to kill your kid - zero tolerance. Call the school as a courtesy, tell them that you're involving the cops.

Completely agree. You *might* be able to convince yourself it was hyperbole with a normal kid, but with this psycho you want to start the trail in case things escalate.

[reader50]

Also hit your PTA's website, and read the bylaws. Like how to recall the president. Between your family and the other parents you know, you should be able to scare up a candidate.

When I was in school, there was a special one-room "school" near the main one. For the hard cases. With separate fencing, and separate entrance well away from the regular school entrance. Might have been a reform school - I was too young to investigate, and of course, never attended that one.

You might also look into your state's school attendance law. Parents who do not make their kids attend school can be declared unfit and have their kids taken away by Social Services. Which is probably why he attends each morning. But I don't know if attending mornings-only complies with the law. If it doesn't, you have some negotiating leverage.

[akent35]

Originally Posted by EstaNightshift 

Yeah, that's my issue. Favorite Mom, favored son. The school hasn't done anything NOW, so by definition, they're against the bullied.

Cops time.

Yup, call the cops! Based on what you stated above, it has been known for along time that the kid is a bully. Time to put a clamp on it.

[Shaddim]

Contact a lawyer or talk directly to the police, tell them about the other child's mental state and make sure to spell it out to them. Get a restraining order against the kid, after that the police can be more proactive. If the bully is disturbed as well as impaired, which sounds likely, anything could happen. It's very possible that basic moral restraint won't stop him from being violent and hurting your child, in this situation. Don't leave this in the hands of the school. I know, I had nearly the same thing happen to me when I was 10; a really big (12 y/o, almost 6' tall, and over 200lbs), yet mentally impaired, guy bullied me for over a year. As far as I could tell he didn't have full access to that part of his brain that allows us to reason. After I lost a couple teeth, suffered a broken nose, and a received a concussion, others started to see him as a threat and he was finally relocated to a place where he could be properly handled.

[moonmonkey]

I'm sure it would be so easy to involve the police in France.

Would suggest formally writing to the school at least.

[ghporter]

Go to the school's administration - not just the principle, but higher up. A child that EVERYBODY knows for being a violent, bullying child, is a problem for everyone, and the school is liable for what that child does unless the school takes positive steps to control him. If his mom is president of the PTA, she may be using that position to make things better for all the kids in the school, but maybe it's just to do things for that one child. If she's obviously doing things to ensure that this one child isn't disciplined or otherwise controlled, there should be a mechanism through the PTA's bylaws to remove her. And the restraining order idea has lots of merit; not only does having the police and courts involved help protect your child, it usually gets a school's administration's attention.

[Chongo]

[Waragainstsleep]

^^^ Yes ganging up and assaulting a mentally impaired child. Way to go Chongo.

Seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Matty are you still in France? Do the French do restraining orders?

[mattyb]

Restraining order route - don't even know if they have that in Frogland. I'll look into it though. Also not sure if I can get the cops involved in stuff like this, I'll ask.

Letter and meeting with school principal to be organised. Other parents are also going to write letters - or at least they said that they would.

Tempted to teach my son some self-defence but Mrs. Mattyb is against it.

PTA has no remit for childrens' security, so this president shouldn't be able to influence any potential solution. Then again she is a good friend of the mayor.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Restraining order route - don't even know if they have that in Frogland. I'll look into it though. Also not sure if I can get the cops involved in stuff like this, I'll ask.

Try, just for the documentation. That way if something happens two months down the road you can scream "I tried to warn you guys two months ago!"

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Tempted to teach my son some self-defence but Mrs. Mattyb is against it.

lol.

[Waragainstsleep]

If I'm not mistaken, the French way of dealing with perceived injustice is to riot. You've always got that as a backup plan.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

lol.

Well I can't give him a 45 yet so ...

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

If I'm not mistaken, the French way of dealing with perceived injustice is to riot. You've always got that as a backup plan.

Not seen many 7 year old rioters, but there does seem to be a few pissed off parents.

[Waragainstsleep]

I was thinking the parents more than the kids.

[Phileas]

Cops? Restraining orders?

Against an eight year old who's most likely mentally handicapped?

In all seriousness, have you all gone absolutely mad?

[BLAZE_MkIV]

No they haven't. When things aren't being handled by the people who should be handling it then you escalate. Just because its a child doesn't mean it isn't a crime. Is accessory after the fact a chargeable offense in France?

[Chongo]

Just exactly how "special" is this kid, or is his mother just claiming this because she cannot dicipline him?.

[ghporter]

When another parent fails to sufficiiently manage their child, and that child is both a problem to others AND "known" to most of the other kids' parents, it's not a matter of "accommodating" a special needs kid. It's a matter of making it clear to the problem child's parent that HER lack of performance in taking care of her child is a problem.

If he's mentally handicapped, he should be in the appropriate program to help him learn to cope appropriately. It sounds like Mom has forced the school to "mainstream" him, which isn't appropriate in all cases. As a occupational therapist, I've worked with special kids whose coping skills were in need of work, and that was pretty much my job in treating them. But you can't help someone whose mother thinks he's just perfect and does everything she can to keep him out of the kinds of programs he needs to succeed in the world.

[Mike Wuerthele]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Cops? Restraining orders?

Against an eight year old who's most likely mentally handicapped?

In all seriousness, have you all gone absolutely mad?

"Gee Billy, Bully McBullington only broke your arm, and punched you in the nose because he's got a mental disability. Don't worry about it. Oh yeah the pain you're in? Sorry."

Yeah. Cops time. I've got a six-year old profoundly disabled child and I promise you, at the first sign of abuse by other children, I GUARANTEE law enforcement is getting involved.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by Phileas 

Cops? Restraining orders?

Against an eight year old who's most likely mentally handicapped?

In all seriousness, have you all gone absolutely mad?

Apparently, yes.

Find out where the kid lives and cut his puppy's throat open in front of him. Tell him if he screws with your son again, you're coming for his family. Say it in a Liam Neeson "Taken" voice.

But seriously, I'd speak to the school principal and the mother (together) and let them know you are taking this very seriously. And teach your son how to punch.

[subego]

Looking at this from a purely theoretical standpoint, isn't it more important to be able to take a punch? Then you show the opponent they can't control you with violence, and gives you the ability to retaliate with relative impunity.

I get the impression that's a big part of more modern fighting styles. You need to get the shit kicked out of you a few times not to get fazed by it happening.


As I said, all theoretical. I know nothing about this from a practical perspective. Never been in a fight, and having thought about it, I know my only option if I get in one is to attempt to murder the other person.

[andi*pandi]

If he's got "special needs" then he probably only attends in the mornings because he's going someplace else for help in the afternoons. What type of bullying is happening?

I'd probably still follow these steps: teacher, other parent, school, and then if those avenues fail the cops. The teacher likely has some eye-witness reporting that could be handy. If the PTA mom says, "oh, billy just would never do such a thing" go to the next steps. My junior high bully's mom wouldn't believe her little girl was a vicious bitch until we both got suspended for fighting and had a conference with the principal.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by subego 

Looking at this from a purely theoretical standpoint, isn't it more important to be able to take a punch? Then you show the opponent they can't control you with violence, and gives you the ability to retaliate with relative impunity.

That might not be such a bad idea when the bully is a developmentally normal asshole. If this kid has severe autism or something like that, then the required levels of empathy and emotional reasoning just might not be there at all.

[mattyb]

This kid isn't mentally handicapped AFAIK. He isn't always in school because of the problems that he creates. He has a carer just for him, but she doesn't seem able to stop him punching other kids, throwing things at the other kids or pushing teachers. My concern is that my son and daughter aren't protected when they're in school.

There's one week of school left. After talking to some other parents affected by this kid's behavior over the weekend, nobody wants to take any action the last week. I don't agree with this and have asked for a meeting with the head teacher.

[BadKosh]

Got any evidence on your iPhone? Let the PTA mom go down with her brat son in a viral video on YouTube. See what bad PR can do.

[mattyb]

Not allowed to film other people's kids in France.

[BadKosh]

KIDS will be kids. Can Kids videotape each other in franth?

[Waragainstsleep]

Right so he's basically just a little shit who happens to have learning difficulty or something?
Will he be gone for good after this last week of school?

[Chongo]

My personal experience is that schools will do nothing until there is an actual fight. I had to put up with name calling that started in 4th grade. Complaints to school officials did nothing. It did not stop until 7th grade when one kid decided he could take it the next step and I was forced to knock him on his ass. No one botherd me after that.

[subego]

I was fat and "sensitive" so I got bullied, both verbally and physically, but the point was to get me to do something like cry, so it never got dangerous. Not that it justified it, but I could be pretty ****ing annoying when I was 7.

There was one exception. One kid was truly psycho. He threw a brick at me once. He ended up being expelled, though not for the brick.

I went to hippy-dippy Montessori school, and you really had to ****-up to get expelled. In my 8 years there only that kid, and someone who attempted a sexual assault got tossed. Even the kid who was the lookout for the sexual assaulter got welcomed back.

That one was a little confusing to 11-year-old subby.

[Chongo]

In 7th grade, we had a kid that had been expelled from several schools for fighting. It was our turn. It did not take long before he got into a fight, with a teacher. He was expelled. I have no idea what happened to him after that.

[Waragainstsleep]

There was one kid who got expelled from my school at age 12 or so. It was always going to happen. A few years later he got put away for life along with his cousin after the two of them tried to burgle their own grandmother and one of them stabbed her to death. So I heard anyway. Long time ago now.

There was a couple more who got expelled at 16 right before they would have left (like a week or two in both cases). One started a fight that I guess was just a step too far or perhaps more serious than I realised, the other got done for possession and/or supply of drugs. Both had fairly long disciplinary rap sheets going back years though. One of them is still my FB friend. Seems to have gotten his act together somewhat. He leads a more interesting life than I do at any rate.

Actually I think one more got shipped out for punching a teacher as well. Another repeat offender as you'd imagine.

Not one of these kids had a mother on the PTA. Total opposite AFAIK.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

My personal experience is that schools will do nothing until there is an actual fight. I had to put up with name calling that started in 4th grade. Complaints to school officials did nothing. It did not stop until 7th grade when one kid decided he could take it the next step and I was forced to knock him on his ass. No one botherd me after that.

Similar to my experience. having a first name of Stacy didn't help. Class bully threatened to "push my lips through my braces" in 7th grade. I grabbed his hand, and specifically, his "bird Finger" bent it down to expose his wrist and I buried my braces in his wrist to draw blood. By the time the school bus dropped us of, the bully had to use his shirt to wrap his wrist.(LOL!) His parents came over to complain about their little darling, and that is when his parents got the wake-up call that their brat was a bully too. My dad told them to take a hike. The bullies dad apologized, and the bully do the same and that if he ever bothered me again, HIS DAD gave me permission to hit him in the head with a rock! Some parenting skills huh?

[subego]

We actually had my 4th grade teacher expelled for being Napoleon with boobs. At some point a significant group of parents all threatened to yank their kids at once. It was a private school, so they listened.

The replacement, though much nicer, needed to be teaching high school. He was teaching us full-on organic chemistry in 6th grade. That was good for the super-smart kids, but was well beyond the only sorta-smart kids, like myself. He taught us stuff I didn't hear again until I was a junior in high-school.

But the kid who was sharp enough to get a free ride at Northwestern in organic chemistry? He was undoubtedly helped by it.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

There was one kid who got expelled from my school at age 12 or so. It was always going to happen. A few years later he got put away for life along with his cousin after the two of them tried to burgle their own grandmother and one of them stabbed her to death. So I heard anyway. Long time ago now.

There was a couple more who got expelled at 16 right before they would have left (like a week or two in both cases). One started a fight that I guess was just a step too far or perhaps more serious than I realised, the other got done for possession and/or supply of drugs. Both had fairly long disciplinary rap sheets going back years though. One of them is still my FB friend. Seems to have gotten his act together somewhat. He leads a more interesting life than I do at any rate.

Actually I think one more got shipped out for punching a teacher as well. Another repeat offender as you'd imagine.

Not one of these kids had a mother on the PTA. Total opposite AFAIK.

To give you the opposite end, my dad, who went to Catholic School in the 60's, was far more worried about getting the shit kicked out of him by Brothers, who all worked-out like mother****ers because they were sexually frustrated.

One Brother punched a kid so hard he needed his jaw wired shut. He got the disciplinary action of getting moved to a different school.

Of course, if you told your parents the Brothers were smacking you around, then your parents wood smack you around again, assuming you deserved it.

[andi*pandi]

My school didn't do much until blood was drawn. There were 3 years of taunts, pushing, obscene phone calls, gum on my clothes and hair, not letting me sit on the bus, etc from this girl and her pack. The most the school did was arrange for me to walk half a mile to where a different bus stopped. It took the fight (huge messy bloody nose evidence) for them to call a conference. My mother was PISSED that they put me on a bus home with blood everywhere and hair pulled out. Luckily, though this girl had a good punch, I had height on her and ended the fight with her lifted off the ground by the neck.

This girl 20 years later tried to friend me on facebook. I didn't think it was to apologize for what a shitty person she was. I googled her and found recent arrest records.

[subego]

By the time I was in high-school, I was big enough people didn't try and tangle with me physically, unless they were bigger. I was 180 as a freshman, and 270 as a senior, so there weren't many of those. I actually weigh less now than I did as a freshman.

Most I got into was a shoving match or two, which I was on the way towards losing before teachers broke it up. Slippery loafers vs. tennis shoes on a hardwood floor.

We did have a kid who disappeared, and the scuttle was he murdered someone.

[andi*pandi]

See, I was taller than this girl, but a) she had a pack of mean girls, and b) I had no idea how to fight.

[subego]

I had a particular group who had it out for me, but they kept it strictly mental. They were jocks, too, so any of them could have taken me. I think they realized they would have gotten in trouble, but otherwise had impunity.

What made it worse is they pretended to pal around with me in the beginning. I had foolishly assumed being self-effacing about my lack of jockness was working.

I'm jealous of y'all who ended up resolving the situation by kicking ass.

[subego]

I somehow managed to be low kid on the totem-pole all through grade school, and second to lowest in high school.

And in not one of my prouder moments, in high school I tended to bully that one kid who was below me.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

I grabbed his hand, and specifically, his "bird Finger" bent it down to expose his wrist and I buried my braces in his wrist to draw blood.

So you probably think Suarez is getting a raw deal too then?

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

So you probably think Suarez is getting a raw deal too then?

He has a bottle opener made to look like him. But He's doing it to be a jerk.

I did it to SCARE the bully, and let him see even though he was stronger, he could still get hurt by me. ( I had planned to drop my pants belt, working like a noose, over his head and drag him down the marble stairs as fast as I could as the next move.)

[Waragainstsleep]

I wouldn't say I was bullied but there was a culture of fighting amongst a number of my classmates and occasionally they interpreted a lack of interest in that as a sign of weakness. That and my being a geek and speaking more properly than many of them (though not public school elocution lessons proper, just not yokel style).
I was never in a proper fight but there were instances where others sometimes tried to impress their friends by having a go at me. It all changed after what seemed like a completely innocuous PE less where we had all been in the weights room bar two guys who had taken some free weights into the next room. These guys fancied themselves as being fairly tough and when I walked out past them on my way back to the changing rooms they thought it would be hilarious to ask me to try and dead lift a dumbbell they had loaded up and failed to get very far off the ground themselves. If I had lifted it over my head any more nonchalantly I would have had to do it one handed. I guess they told a few other people because no-one ever so much as glared at me after that day.

[Face Ache]

We had a school bully who was a crazy loner. Barry always walked around with 5 metres of personal space, as people cleared a path before him. Nobody was safe - nerd or jock, if Barry was coming for you something bad was about to happen. Creative too. This kid would have been heavily promoted during the Spanish Inquisition.

For some reason he left me alone. As far as I know, I was the only kid with a "safe" status, which in itself was worrying. Like, maybe he had something big in store for me. He picked on all my friends, but he never bothered me.

The only person who bullied me at school was a male phys-ed teacher - one of those short guys who swagger around with their elbows stuck out, like they're bigger on the inside. Mini-Tardis-Jock would follow me around, calling me a fairy. I was a pacifist, but if I could go back in time, that is one guy I would like to punch.

Had plenty of fights after school. I have a voice that carries and a face that apparently elicits violence in a certain kind of guy (drunk insecure jock). In a bar setting this effectively gives me a virtual neon sign above my head that says "Punch this guy!"

I've never started a fight, but eventually you get the hang of winning them.

[Waragainstsleep]

There is a guy who was a few years older than me and I don't think I ever spent time in his presence without him being a total prick to me. Even now, 20 years later I will take any excuse he gives me to punch him in the face. Sadly I think he has worked this out and since I am now three times his size I doubt he'll slip up.

[subego]

I won't say I've forgiven all the people who treated me badly in school. If I had, I'd be going to reunions.

OTOH, one of the more valuable things I learned as an adult is people act shitty for a reason, and the need to act shitty means they are being punished on some level.

IOW, they have to live with themselves, which can't be easy, because if it was, they wouldn't be behaving like a ****ing animal.