[besson3c]

Republican failings:

- You guys threw the intellectual wing of the party under the bus big time when Palin was chosen and her abilities over-inflated. Read some Christopher Hitchens. This part of the party pretty much felt that she was a moron, and we eventually saw a parade of defectors. The luster and novelty of the Palin pick simply didn't last long enough, it turned out to be a supremely bad choice

- Fragmentation: you have your Christian coalition, Libertarian types, old school small government types, Bush fans, etc.

- McCain's campaign was run by a bunch of monkeys. Really, you'd think they would have learned from past elections that simply insisting that McCain wasn't Obama or Bush was a losing idea. McCain needed to focus more on presenting his ideas, rather than simply tearing down Obama

- Bush made it *extremely* difficult going into this thing given that McCain had to constantly do a little dance to distance himself from Bush in front of the right people, and demonstrate closeness in front of others

- You had history working against you. No incumbent party has ever won against a failing economy

- Obama's campaign was, for the most part, brilliant, and will probably be the model of how a campaign ought to be run for years to come.

[CreepDogg]

time to dig in, conservatives.

Oh please. NOW is the time to 'dig in'? Where have you been for the past 8 years while the federal government has been spending like drunken sailors? Did you really expect the outcome of this election to change that (with, say, some 'miracle' election of Ron Paul)?

As far as I can tell, the only thing that will change is that maybe, we as taxpayers will need to pay as we go rather than putting it on the federal credit card. That's at least a step in the right direction, and I think the best we could hope for with the choices presented us.

Sounds like nothing more than sour grapes to me.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Funnily enough, one of my friends made the exact same point last night. Carter was a useless, ineffective leader...and Reagan was the one to swing in and pick up the pieces of his stupidity. Maybe we'll get lucky and, in four years, find ourselves with a real leader who gets back to the roots of conservative Republican politics. We'll just have to hope that Obama doesn't do any long-lasting damage to the country and its economy.

That's the general idea. I know it's a lot to hope for, but I would like to see a candidate even more fiscally conservative than President Reagan. He was constrained by the Cold War and a Democratic Congress. The next Republican president will have to be tough about cutting the federal government down by an order of magnitude and reforming Entitlements before it's too late. He will have to take Congress head on and shut down the government if need be until he gets real reform through. No one knows how much more massive and bloated the federal government will prove to be after 4 or (shudder) 8 years of Barack Hussein Obama.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Why wasn't he even close to getting the Republican ticket?

He comes off as too extreme, and he isn't all that likable based on his presentation style. He's also such an absolutist on most issues that it's difficult for the mainstream of the party to embrace him. We need a libertarian Republican who can sell a package of gradual reforms. The American people won't end their support for the Social welfare state and big government over night when it's taken us 70 years of Socialist policies to get to this point. He would need to adopt a platform of gradual but substantial change over the course of years and improve his image in order to have a shot. There is an opening for a Republican who can be that kind of a candidate, particularly when the electorate wakes up to the terrible choice made yesterday.

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

As far as I can tell, the only thing that will change is that maybe, we as taxpayers will need to pay as we go rather than putting it on the federal credit card. That's at least a step in the right direction, and I think the best we could hope for with the choices presented us.

Pay as we go for the $840B to $1T in new spending BHO wants over one term? There's no way to pay for that. Soaking the rich will not get the job done. If he gets his fiscal agenda implemented, you'll see deficits in trillions rather than hundreds of billions we have right now.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Time for conservatives to get back to basics. In the ebb and flow of politics, each party has its time where it must regroup and discuss the ridiculous things it did that lead to its loss of power. What we need is a new Gingrich to come along with a clear sense of mission to expound on the points illustrated above.

We do have a "New Gingrich", in fact two, soon to be Sen. Sarah Palin and Gov. Bobby Jindal.

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Moderator, I agree with you to the extent that the GOP should return to its noble principles. I disagree with you on Gov. Palin, although I must admit it will be difficult for her to gain traction nationally if that's what she hopes to do. She would probably have to run for the Senate and distinguish herself there first. She wasn't quite ready for a national campaign.

Ted Stevens has won reelection. Once his conviction is upheld and he resigns, Gov. Palin will take his seat.

McCain was running against BO, and the credit crisis. Before the credit crisis, BO was behind.
As I mentioned in another thread, BO ran right of center.
The three things he pounded on
Cut taxes
Cut spending
Eliminate programs that aren't working.


One good thing from BO being elected, the "Reverends" Jesse and Al are out of a job, BO got there without their help.


BTW, I'm still waiting for Bubba's middle class tax cut.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Carter Bush was a useless, ineffective leader...and Reagan Obama was the one to swing in and pick up the pieces of his stupidity.

Maybe we'll get lucky and, in four years, be saying the above.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Pay as we go for the $840B to $1T in new spending BHO wants over one term? There's no way to pay for that. Soaking the rich will not get the job done. If he gets his fiscal agenda implemented, you'll see deficits in trillions rather than hundreds of billions we have right now.

And if that happens, I agree it will be an epic fail and time to try something else. But I think he's smarter than to let it go down like that. I guess we get to find out.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

We do have a "New Gingrich", in fact two, soon to be Sen. Sarah Palin and Gov. Bobby Jindal.


Ted Stevens has won reelection. Once his conviction is upheld and he resigns, Gov. Palin will take his seat.

McCain was running against BO, and the credit crisis. Before the credit crisis, BO was behind.
As I mentioned in another thread, BO ran right of center.
The three things he pounded on
Cut taxes
Cut spending
Eliminate programs that aren't working.


One good thing from BO being elected, the "Reverends" Jesse and Al are out of a job, BO got there without their help.


BTW, I'm still waiting for Bubba's middle class tax cut.

Isn't Gingrich smart though? Until Palin demonstrates some intellect and much greater comfort with her subject matter, I really don't see her revitalizing your party.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Funnily enough, one of my friends made the exact same point last night. Carter was a useless, ineffective leader...and Reagan was the one to swing in and pick up the pieces of his stupidity. Maybe we'll get lucky and, in four years, find ourselves with a real leader who gets back to the roots of conservative Republican politics. We'll just have to hope that Obama doesn't do any long-lasting damage to the country and its economy.

Obama wont take office until January, and you've already concluded that his Presidency will be ineffective 4 years from now?

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Carter was a useless, ineffective leader...and Reagan was the one to swing in and pick up the pieces of his stupidity.

Why don't we give him a real chance before assuming that it's going to be a replay of Carter?

I would like to see Obama appoint some conservatives to his cabinet, which would show that he is willing to work with the other side. Forget about the "let's work against him... that'll show everyone when this country has been run into the ground."

Why can't we just agree to disagree and look for common ground so that we can all move forward together? Remember what McCain said in his concession speech. The Democrats can't be as effective without the Republicans and the Republicans can't be as effective without the Democrats.

And calling for filibusters of everything the Democrats try to do just because there's no "filibuster proof majority" is childish and stupid. It was childish and stupid when the Democrats did it to the Republicans and it will be just as childish and stupid if the Republicans do it to the Democrats. Especially so if it's just out of spite. If Republicans truly believe they are better than the Democrats then show it by behaving as adults.

If you truly believe that electing Obama is just the travesty that you think it is then do your best to work with him to prevent things. Don't just sit idly by and let it happen, and don't just "work against him at every step of the way" because you're hurting yourselves too. It doesn't have to be that way.

[The Crook]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Ted Stevens has won reelection. Once his conviction is upheld and he resigns, Gov. Palin will take his seat.

I believe AK state law provides for a Special Election.

Palin actually was a reformer on that issue. Think she'll run?

Originally Posted by Chongo 

As I mentioned in another thread, BO ran right of center.

Yeah, I called this in another thread.

Obama "ran a center-right campaign." Let's just forget the fact that you guys were calling him a socialist and making other disparaging remarks about his extreme left-wingedness just yesterday. You guys are so predictable.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Why don't we give him a real chance before assuming that it's going to be a replay of Carter?

I would like to see Obama appoint some conservatives to his cabinet, which would show that he is willing to work with the other side. Forget about the "let's work against him... that'll show everyone when this country has been run into the ground."

Why can't we just agree to disagree and look for common ground so that we can all move forward together? Remember what McCain said in his concession speech. The Democrats can't be as effective without the Republicans and the Republicans can't be as effective without the Democrats.

And calling for filibusters of everything the Democrats try to do just because there's no "filibuster proof majority" is childish and stupid. It was childish and stupid when the Democrats did it to the Republicans and it will be just as childish and stupid if the Republicans do it to the Democrats. Especially so if it's just out of spite. If Republicans truly believe they are better than the Democrats then show it by behaving as adults.

If you truly believe that electing Obama is just the travesty that you think it is then do your best to work with him to prevent things. Don't just sit idly by and let it happen, and don't just "work against him at every step of the way" because you're hurting yourselves too. It doesn't have to be that way.

Well said!

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by The Crook 

I believe AK state law provides for a Special Election.

Palin actually was a reformer on that issue. Think she'll run?



Yeah, I called this in another thread.

Obama "ran a center-right campaign." Let's just forget the fact that you guys were calling him a socialist and making other disparaging remarks about his extreme left-wingedness just yesterday. You guys are so predictable.

Yeah, whatever happened to "the most liberal candidate ever?" McCain was saying this, and none of you guys batted an eye.

[CreepDogg]

I think they're saying he represented himself as a center-right candidate, but is actually a communist.

[besson3c]

CreepDogg: that's Marxist, get it right man!

[CreepDogg]

Sorry - got it mixed up on the GML!

[besson3c]

The GML is up to 77 items now, BTW... I'm keeping it going:

- he's a Socialist
- he's a Marxist
- he's a Communist
- he's a dictator
- William Ayers
- he's an elitist
- Jeremiah Wright
- he's unpatriotic
- he wants to raise everybody's taxes
- he's running a dirty campaign
- he's inexperienced
- he reneged on his promise to accept public financing
- Joe the plumber/Tito the builder/etc.
- Obama's aunt
- Michelle Obama being proud of her country for the first time
- he voted "present" too many times
- he's a secret Muslim
- he wants to kill babies
- he's the most liberal candidate ever
- he wants to wipe Israel off the map
- he wants to destroy small towns
- he will be soft on terror and will meet with foreign leaders in a very careless way
- he wants us to stop singing the national anthem or reciting the Pledge
- he has secretly been making last minute changes to his tax plan that don't appear on his website
- he's been accepting illegal donations
- he's an empty suit
- he's not ready on day one
- he doesn't write his own speeches and relies on a teleprompter for staged theatrics
- he went to a Madrassa
- he's black/taking advantage of the fact that he is black/playing the race card
- he's godless/the anti-Christ
- he hates town hall meetings
- he's not a US citizen
- Tony Rezko
- The other Palestinian professor whose last name starts with a K
- Doesn't take care of his half brother
- He was a community activist/organizer.
- Truth Squads.
- Many of the things listed above prefaced with the term 'radical'.
- He likes arugula.
- He thinks he's the messiah.
- People think he's the messiah.
- He doesn't put his hand over his heart for the national anthem.
- He doesn't wear a flag pin.
- He thinks he's a rock star/celebrity.
- He had columns behind him.
- He snubbed the Clintons.
- He's opposed to nuclear energy
- He can't pay for anything he is proposing
- He supports homosexual civil unions
- He's not black enough.
- He's obsessed with homosexuals and their 'rights'.
- He's arrogant.
- He smokes.
- ACORN
- Obama took money from Fannie and Freddie
- He has a big ego
- He has a secret terrorist fist bump
- He is a part of dirty Chicago politics
- He is a fraud
- He wants to surrender to our enemies
- Biden puts his foot in his mouth too often
- Even Sarah Palin has more executive experience than Obama
- He thinks "a woman's health" should mean whatever her corrupt liberal socialist "doctor" (whatever that means) wants it to mean
- He wants liberal activist judges in the court
- His middle name is Hussein
- He wants to put bankrupt coal companies
- He was against drilling before he was for it
- He wants to socialize health care
- He wants to teach little kids how to use a condom
- He thinks that questions about abortion are "above his pay grade"
- "We just don't know enough about him..."
- Obama = Jimmy Carter
- Obama supporters have drunk the Kool Aid
- Something apocalyptic will happen with Obama as president
- We will suffer from another terrorist attack with Obama as president
- The markets will erode with Obama as president

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The GML is up to 77 items now, BTW... I'm keeping it going:

That goes for everyone... the GML has had it's time.

[besson3c]

What goes for everyone? Does the GML seem a little too mocking?

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What goes for everyone? Does the GML seem a little too mocking?

What I said about both sides coming together to achieve a common goal. That goes for both sides. How do you expect the Republicans to reach out to you instead of making fun of/fearing you if you're still making fun of/fearing their side.

That said, this IS the Political Lounge, and I mostly stay out of it for a reason.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The GML is up to 77 items now, BTW... I'm keeping it going:

Actually Bess, you may as well take this one off..

- We will suffer from another terrorist attack with Obama as president

...because you're going to get that whoever the new president is.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

What I said about both sides coming together to achieve a common goal. That goes for both sides. How do you expect the Republicans to reach out to you instead of making fun of/fearing you if you're still making fun of/fearing their side.

That said, this IS the Political Lounge, and I mostly stay out of it for a reason.

Yeah, you're right, I guess I should retire the list.

But for the record I was intending to mock the overall incoherency of the arguments against Obama in great part due to the lack of focus, as opposed to conservative ideals as a whole, which I respect.

[CreepDogg]

There have been a few in here already trying to tear down Obama's presidency, and he's not even president yet. I think for them, the GML is fair game as a gentle reminder of all the FUD and flailing in attempt to tear him down in the campaign. That said, I think beyond that, a lot of what's on the GML is moot - there will be plenty of new irrelevant and/or overstated criticisms to mock.

[PaperNotes]

The Bezmenov interview states perfectly how to get America back on track after all the subversion that has turned Americans against each other. I think it was in part 8.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jVZ4Lkm6JQw

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Yeah, you're right, I guess I should retire the list.

But for the record I was intending to mock the overall incoherency of the arguments against Obama in great part due to the lack of focus, as opposed to conservative ideals as a whole, which I respect.

Yeah - it was interesting to see it - because it really does show that the Republicans just didn't know what to do with him from a campaign perspective.

I'm sure they'll have some more concrete things to point to in 4 years. Doesn't mean they'll win - just that I'd bet they'll have a much better sense of where to focus.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Shouldn't you be out in the streets jumping around and stuff?

Why? Now is not the time to gloat. Now is the time for EVERY American to come together so we can make positive changes happen in this country after the disasterous past 8 years.

Originally Posted by Person Man 

Why don't we give him a real chance before assuming that it's going to be a replay of Carter?

I would like to see Obama appoint some conservatives to his cabinet, which would show that he is willing to work with the other side. Forget about the "let's work against him... that'll show everyone when this country has been run into the ground."

Why can't we just agree to disagree and look for common ground so that we can all move forward together? Remember what McCain said in his concession speech. The Democrats can't be as effective without the Republicans and the Republicans can't be as effective without the Democrats.

And calling for filibusters of everything the Democrats try to do just because there's no "filibuster proof majority" is childish and stupid. It was childish and stupid when the Democrats did it to the Republicans and it will be just as childish and stupid if the Republicans do it to the Democrats. Especially so if it's just out of spite. If Republicans truly believe they are better than the Democrats then show it by behaving as adults.

If you truly believe that electing Obama is just the travesty that you think it is then do your best to work with him to prevent things. Don't just sit idly by and let it happen, and don't just "work against him at every step of the way" because you're hurting yourselves too. It doesn't have to be that way.

NOTICE: PersonMan - someone has hijacked your account. I'll alert a mod.

Well said imposter.

[besson3c]

Yeah, I don't think anybody would ever claim that Obama will be perfect, including himself. All of this Messiah stuff is either just the naive wing of the left, something the right came up with to damage him, or just random incoherent bluster.

Of those imperfections of Obama which I'm sure we will be seen in the coming days, you guys will have plenty to bitch about. In the meantime, I *really* hope that you guys have learned that all of this wildly unfocused and manufactured drama probably hurt you more than it helped. If one were to read that list knowing nothing about Obama they would think that Obama is worse than Hilter or something. The second that people realize that all of this is greatly over-inflated they question the entire movement that tried to generate doubt - i.e. the central part of McCain's campaign strategy in the closing months.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Why?

Because you'd better party before the beer runs out.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

There have been a few in here already trying to tear down Obama's presidency

Obviously because he's nothing but words and the Democrats yet again are creating this Cult of Personality for gullible people the world over to adore. It's hard to have patience for such stupid irrational behaviour. There are people out there saying he isn't corrupt LOL! He's a politician for chrissakes! And there are people saying having a black president is respectful. Now that's quite racist against whites, but then that has become quite acceptable. Maybe we should also respect the great uncorruptable black leaders of Africa such as Amin, Mobutu and Mugabe? Or the UN's uncorruptable Kofi Annan who has been embroiled in a number of scandals.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

We do have a "New Gingrich", in fact two, soon to be Sen. Sarah Palin and Gov. Bobby Jindal.

Please. Palin hasn't got the intellectual capability to sweep up after Gingrich, and he was just another great snake oil salesman.

[hyteckit]

Conservatives are the losers. You guys lost by voting for McCain instead of the real conservative Ron Paul.

Pres. Bush - Compassionate Conservative

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

There are people out there saying he isn't corrupt LOL! He's a politician for chrissakes!

Plus, let's not forget that he's a lawyer.

And it's *always* the right time to make lawyer jokes.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Time for conservatives to get back to basics. In the ebb and flow of politics, each party has its time where it must regroup and discuss the ridiculous things it did that lead to its loss of power. What we need is a new Gingrich to come along with a clear sense of mission to expound on the points illustrated above.

Maybe we'll hear about how bad the deficit is for the economy now. Not likely.

[besson3c]

Healthy cynicism is a good thing, but rendering a verdict of guilty before he is even given the opportunity is unfair.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Maybe we'll hear about how bad the deficit is for the economy now. Not likely.

I hope so. No one is going to be popular telling Americans that the credit card bill is coming due, but whoever does will earn my respect.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

Yeah - it was interesting to see it - because it really does show that the Republicans just didn't know what to do with him from a campaign perspective.

I'd agree with that analysis if it really means "couldn't say anything about him w/o worrying about being called 'racist.'" So, yes, if that's what that means.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Because you'd better party before the beer runs out.

Aren't you supposed to do that no matter who's in charge? I mean, that goes without saying.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Because you'd better party before the beer runs out.

If things really did get that bad - I would think this would be the one industry that would benefit.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

It's alright boys. Arnold is coming. Someone with real experience who will bring balance to the force

I don't know where you think he's going considering he's not eligible to run for President...

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by finboy 

I'd agree with that analysis if it really means "couldn't say anything about him w/o worrying about being called 'racist.'" So, yes, if that's what that means.

Nope. It just means what it said. If they had something that had some depth to it, they wouldn't have had to worry about being called 'racist'. Since it was just FUD, yeah, that was a concern.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Please. Palin hasn't got the intellectual capability to sweep up after Gingrich

True. She's got some reform cred and some ability to lead and ignite a crowd. Trouble is, her intellect and diplomatic/strategic skills make her more suitable to lead the PTA than the USA.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I don't know where you think he's going considering he's not eligible to run for President...

Yes, Arnold can run for President with an little "change".

[PaperNotes]

[goMac]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Yes, Arnold can run for President with an little "change".

Way to obviously learn from your mistakes of fiddling with the constitution...

Somehow I don't think the Republicans will be a problem in 2012 if this keeps up.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Obviously because he's nothing but words and the Democrats yet again are creating this Cult of Personality for gullible people the world over to adore. It's hard to have patience for such stupid irrational behaviour. There are people out there saying he isn't corrupt LOL! He's a politician for chrissakes! And there are people saying having a black president is respectful. Now that's quite racist against whites, but then that has become quite acceptable. Maybe we should also respect the great uncorruptable black leaders of Africa such as Amin, Mobutu and Mugabe? Or the UN's uncorruptable Kofi Annan who has been embroiled in a number of scandals.

I see you got your account back from the imposter who posted above.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Obviously because he's nothing but words and the Democrats yet again are creating this Cult of Personality for gullible people the world over to adore. It's hard to have patience for such stupid irrational behaviour. There are people out there saying he isn't corrupt LOL! He's a politician for chrissakes! And there are people saying having a black president is respectful. Now that's quite racist against whites, but then that has become quite acceptable. Maybe we should also respect the great uncorruptable black leaders of Africa such as Amin, Mobutu and Mugabe? Or the UN's uncorruptable Kofi Annan who has been embroiled in a number of scandals.

Thanks for the partisan drivel. Now that I've seen your argument, it's obvious to me that no one could possibly have voted for Obama for any rational reason. Maybe if you spent less time tearing him down, and more time developing something to say yourself, you might garner more respect.

[The Crook]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

It's alright boys. Arnold is coming. Someone with real experience who will bring balance to the force

Arnold is way too liberal to win the Republican presidential primary.

He's pro-choice, pro-civil unions, anti-constitutional amendments banning gay marriage, pro-embryonic stem cell research, approved the nation's most stringent controls against global warming, and he supports the Brady Bill. This guy wouldn't get past the primary without changing his views.

That said, the "natural born citizen" requirement is discriminatory and wrong. He should be able to run.

[ort888]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Republican failings:

- You guys threw the intellectual wing of the party under the bus big time when Palin was chosen and her abilities over-inflated. Read some Christopher Hitchens. This part of the party pretty much felt that she was a moron, and we eventually saw a parade of defectors. The luster and novelty of the Palin pick simply didn't last long enough, it turned out to be a supremely bad choice

- Fragmentation: you have your Christian coalition, Libertarian types, old school small government types, Bush fans, etc.

- McCain's campaign was run by a bunch of monkeys. Really, you'd think they would have learned from past elections that simply insisting that McCain wasn't Obama or Bush was a losing idea. McCain needed to focus more on presenting his ideas, rather than simply tearing down Obama

- Bush made it *extremely* difficult going into this thing given that McCain had to constantly do a little dance to distance himself from Bush in front of the right people, and demonstrate closeness in front of others

- You had history working against you. No incumbent party has ever won against a failing economy

- Obama's campaign was, for the most part, brilliant, and will probably be the model of how a campaign ought to be run for years to come.

This really was he Barack Obama show. I think history will see this election as Barack Obama as the Harlem Globetrotters with McCain playing the part of the Washington Generals.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

He comes off as too extreme, and he isn't all that likable based on his presentation style. He's also such an absolutist on most issues that it's difficult for the mainstream of the party to embrace him. We need a libertarian Republican who can sell a package of gradual reforms. The American people won't end their support for the Social welfare state and big government over night when it's taken us 70 years of Socialist policies to get to this point. He would need to adopt a platform of gradual but substantial change over the course of years and improve his image in order to have a shot. There is an opening for a Republican who can be that kind of a candidate, particularly when the electorate wakes up to the terrible choice made yesterday.

I found him very likable, although I don't agree with quite a few of his positions (abolish most federal departments, his isolationist foreign policy). He literally believes (and believes literally) in the things that many Republicans run on: limited government, good financial policies, etc. So why aren't the people more honest (to themselves) and either start to take what they say more serious or change their selling point? This is hypocritical (but inevitably human).

This race was showcasing two things about the GOP: (i) there are cracks in the seam that glues `fiscal' (small government crowd, personal liberties) and `social conservatives' together. McCain's shift towards the social conservatives by changing some of his positions and choosing Palin as his running mate has alienated voters from urban areas -- which you need to win elections. With Palin's talk about `small town values,' McCain's strategists forgot that any modern country isn't just comprised of small towns.
(ii) The ominous `the party has lost their way' is not credible to the majority of the voters anymore (I'd rather say that a slogan has been used up in the eyes of the voter). Pretty much all of the current GOP grandees have actively supported Bush's policies for too long, cheerleading their way into oblivion. The problem can only be solved if there is a generational change and an open discussion on what the Republican Party should stand for.

BTW I don't think Ron Paul will run again (he's too old), so it's up to the next generation anyway.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by The Crook 

Arnold is way too liberal to win the Republican presidential primary.

He's pro-choice, pro-civil unions, anti-constitutional amendments banning gay marriage, pro-embryonic stem cell research, approved the nation's most stringent controls against global warming, and he supports the Brady Bill. This guy wouldn't get past the primary without changing his views.

That said, the "natural born citizen" requirement is discriminatory and wrong. He should be able to run.

Hopefully once the Republicans have restructured those social issues won't matter anyway, because they shouldn't.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by The Crook 

I believe AK state law provides for a Special Election.

Palin actually was a reformer on that issue. Think she'll run?



Yeah, I called this in another thread.

Obama "ran a center-right campaign." Let's just forget the fact that you guys were calling him a socialist and making other disparaging remarks about his extreme left-wingedness just yesterday. You guys are so predictable.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Yeah, whatever happened to "the most liberal candidate ever?" McCain was saying this, and none of you guys batted an eye.

His record says otherwise. All the audio and video from the Primaries and before show him espousing left wing ideology.