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Studs in the winter? (Page 3)
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Laminar
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Nov 9, 2016, 03:43 PM
 
Yeah, I'd just stick with decent all-seasons.
     
subego
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Dec 12, 2016, 03:10 PM
 
I got hosed by the place I ordered wheels from, and haven't gotten around to reordering them until now.

Still haven't 100% settled on the tires themselves. If I go with the Blizzaks, should I be worried their max pressure is close to what I'd need to fill them to?

My van is supposed to be between 39 and 42. IIRC, the Blizzaks max at 45.
     
Laminar
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Dec 12, 2016, 03:21 PM
 
Not an issue! Burst pressure of a tire is closer to 200psi. Max pressure listed on the tire is more about wear characteristics.
     
subego
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Dec 12, 2016, 04:36 PM
 
Awesome! Thank you!
     
subego
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Dec 13, 2016, 02:16 PM
 
I'm still kinda miffed at the people I tried to buy wheels from about a month ago. I won't mention the name, but they come up first in Google.

I placed the order, set up the shipping address to be a courier service I use, and then waited for them to get into stock.

In the meantime, the courier service I use goes out of business.

I sign up with a new service, and ask the wheel people (rimmers?) if they can send it to a new address.

They say fine, and I send them the address.

They say "this is a courier service, we can't send there".

I reply "I'm willing to send it to my home address, but that's a pain for various reasons... what's wrong with this courier service, the last address was a courier service?"

They said "we can only continue this transaction if you have it delivered to your home address".


I display a willingness to do exactly what's being asked, but pose a question, and you turn on me like I'm trying to scam you? **** that, and **** you.


A mention to Detroit Wheel & Tire for not sucking.
     
Laminar
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Dec 13, 2016, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
(rimmers?)
If that's not already a thing then it needs to be a thing.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Dec 14, 2016, 10:29 PM
 
I use Michelin X-Ice3s, with steel rims so I don't beat up the fancier non-winter wheels. They are a very solid winter tire.

The difference in cold/snow grip between my low-profile 19" Conti all-seasons and the 17" Michelins is immediately noticeable. The tire tests I've read appear to bear out the real-world feel - they have significantly better performance in snow and cold weather, particularly in the all-important stopping distance.
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subego
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Jan 4, 2017, 11:22 AM
 
I'm really getting hosed in the wheel department.

The second set I tried to order hit the three week point and they weren't able to hunt them up.

They're going to rack me on the price, but I may just go dealer so I can get it over with. We're definitely in the phase where they'd be useful.
     
Laminar
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Jan 4, 2017, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I use Michelin X-Ice3s, with steel rims so I don't beat up the fancier non-winter wheels. They are a very solid winter tire.

The difference in cold/snow grip between my low-profile 19" Conti all-seasons and the 17" Michelins is immediately noticeable. The tire tests I've read appear to bear out the real-world feel - they have significantly better performance in snow and cold weather, particularly in the all-important stopping distance.
The wife's crossover has 17" Blizzaks on it now, there is definitely a dropoff in performance after the first season. The first time I drove them on the snow my mind was blown. I didn't have to adjust my driving a bit on snow - same acceleration, braking, and turning as the normal 20" all seasons, and a smoother ride to boot. This is their third season pushing about 17,000 miles total with 1/2 tread remaining and the difference from new is noticeable, Tahoes are pulling away from my 2wd car leaving stoplights and it's NOT OKAY. Next season will either be a fresh set of Blizzaks or X-Ices, leaning toward the Michelins.

I'm running some garbage Dunlop snows on my Focus, they're awful, but they came with the wheels I bought on Craigslist. Forty-five degrees F is supposed to be the crossover where winter tires grip better than summers, but I swear my summers, though hard when cold, still hold better down to about 30 degrees than these guys. In the wet the Dunlops feel greasy and slick, they squeal easily and loudly for like, no reason, and there's a lot of tire whine on the road.

I'll be getting some Nokian Hakkapeliittas for the Focus next season, time to tear it up like a Finnish rally driver.
     
And.reg  (op)
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Jan 4, 2017, 04:33 PM
 
Yeah go for the Nokians. The R2s are rated for 30,000 miles.
I could not find a tread life quoted for the Blizzaks when I looked on their site. I am actually not too surprised to hear that yours ran out. According to customer reviews, they ought to go about 20,000 miles.
( Last edited by And.reg; Jan 4, 2017 at 05:01 PM. )
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subego
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Nov 20, 2017, 10:13 PM
 
After last season’s abortive effort, avoided the headache this time by ordering new wheels from a dealer.

Got gouged, but they’ve arrived, and I pick them up in a week when I go in for a service appointment.
     
And.reg  (op)
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Nov 21, 2017, 12:07 PM
 
Which ones, Blizzaks?
Yours truly, And.reg, "The Mighty" Pain in the Ass
     
subego
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Nov 21, 2017, 01:11 PM
 
Haven’t gotten the tires yet, but that’s the plan.

Currently, I do 1,500 miles a year, so I’m not too worried they appear to wear quickly.
     
subego
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Dec 16, 2017, 06:35 PM
 
Achievement Unlocked: Snow Tires.
     
And.reg  (op)
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Dec 17, 2017, 07:52 AM
 
Last thing to keep in mind is that Blizzaks (and most other hardcore snow/winter tires) are squishy soft on the road compared to all seasons, so you need to give yourself extra braking distance. This is normal. Also go slower if there is heavy rain.
Yours truly, And.reg, "The Mighty" Pain in the Ass
     
subego
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Dec 17, 2017, 09:43 AM
 
Good to know! Thank you!

They felt a little weird. It was also in the 50s yesterday.
     
subego
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Dec 17, 2017, 11:16 AM
 
In case anyone is curious. Here are the stock all-weathers versus the Blizzaks.






Hard to tell from the pic, but the treads on the Blizzaks are a good twice as deep.
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 17, 2017, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Hard to tell from the pic, but the treads on the Blizzaks are a good twice as deep.
Also, much more aggressive sipes, running almost completely across the face of the tread, creating more of a block pattern, helping the tire dig into the snow.
     
reader50
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Dec 17, 2017, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
much more aggressive sipes, running almost completely across
New word! I didn't know that one.
     
subego
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Dec 17, 2017, 01:02 PM
 
Was not familiar with that word either.

That definitely stands out. In layman’s terms I went “oh... it’s got channels to squirt the snow out”.
     
Laminar
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Dec 18, 2017, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Last thing to keep in mind is that Blizzaks (and most other hardcore snow/winter tires) are squishy soft on the road compared to all seasons
When it's warm. Below ~40 degrees, all seasons tend to harden and snow tires stay pliable, maintaining traction.

Also, the levels of variance within "all seasons" and "winter tires" is so huge that generalizations aren't typically helpful. A set of Nokian R2s will likely out handle most all season tires in any weather. On the other hand, I had a set of Dunlop snow tires that were utter garbage in every single condition minus deep snow or dirt. They were worthless and greasy as soon as the roads got the tiniest bit wet.

In this test, using Michelin tires of varying ratings (summer, all-season, winter) they found that the winter tires outhandled all-seasons in both snowy and wet conditions. The only place the snows lagged behind all-seasons was in dry conditions in Southern California.

My new car was running a set of cheapo Eagle RS-A tires that are technically all-seasons, but are pretty terrible, hard, fast-wearing tires. They were pretty bad when it got down into the 30s. I swapped a set of Blizzaks on a few weeks ago and it's night and day. These are the high performance Blizzaks, and I'm finding I can still take the curvy onramps at 70+ without much squacking.



( Last edited by Laminar; Jan 26, 2018 at 03:19 PM. )
     
subego
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Dec 20, 2017, 11:36 PM
 
Two potentially dumb-ass questions.

I happened to be perusing my van’s manual, and I saw “snow tires” in the index, so I checked it out for giggles. It mentioned not driving on them over 70 for extended periods. Anything I should worry about?

The other question really has little to do with snow tires, unless I catch a flat. I got a nice floor jack with a big, circular pad you put under the jack point. The van has flanges on the underbody the stock jack is meant to slot into. Is this something I need to worry about? I’ve been blessed with never needing to fix a flat (knock on wood), so I have no idea what’s normal. I was imagining having something wider for the pad to press against. This is really just a flange.
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 20, 2017, 11:55 PM
 
Snow tires come with a speed rating, which can easily reach 190 km/h, much more than 70 mph. But there is also the consideration that if you are driving a van with a high center of gravity in cold weather, you shouldn't overdo it.
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subego
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Dec 21, 2017, 12:02 AM
 
Around here on the Interstate, if the road isn’t wet, “with traffic” maxes at about 75mph/120kph. Temperature has no bearing.
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 21, 2017, 05:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Around here on the Interstate, if the road isn’t wet, “with traffic” maxes at about 75mph/120kph. Temperature has no bearing.
I was talking about a rating for the tires. It's been a while, but as far as I remember, my dad had very good ones on his Mercedes that were rated up to 210 km/h while my mom's were rated up until 190 km/h. Point being that even the lower max speed rating is way above the recommendation of your car manufacturer and way above any speed limit in the US (which AFAIK tops out at 85 mph). So I reckon the recommendation in the car's manual has nothing to do with limits of what the tires can do, but rather with what the car manufacturer seems to think is safe or is required by law. (As far as I know the speed limit in most US states is 65-75 mph, so those numbers seem to match.)
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subego
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Dec 21, 2017, 01:02 PM
 
I getcha. I was trying to get across the idea I do consistently go over 70, but not so much over 70 to be overdoing it.

I don’t think I’d take the van past 80. By contrast, I'd take my Jeep to 90-100 for some “white knuckle” driving. The BMW was still smooth at 120. This is the zone where cops have guns drawn when they pull you over, so I didn’t do it as often as I’d have liked, and never found out where the edge of the car’s envelope was.

Around urban areas the limit is 55-65, so “with traffic” is 10-20 over the limit.
( Last edited by subego; Dec 21, 2017 at 01:15 PM. )
     
andi*pandi
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Dec 21, 2017, 01:22 PM
 
The lawyers no doubt make them put a limit on them so you don't get rambo in his humvee caroming down i-95 at 80mph in 10" of snow.
     
subego
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Dec 21, 2017, 01:51 PM
 
That’s the thing though. It’s not warning against doing that. It’s warning against doing that for a long time.

My instincts tell me the problem is shit snow tires get too warm if they’re run at high speeds.
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 21, 2017, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I getcha. I was trying to get across the idea I do consistently go over 70, but not so much over 70 to be overdoing it.
I understood that part: it's safe to speed with snow tires if conditions allow for it.
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Dec 21, 2017, 06:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My instincts tell me the problem is shit snow tires get too warm if they’re run at high speeds.
As I wrote above: if you are in cold temperatures, that's not an issue, because winter tires are rated for much higher max speeds. 120 mph corresponds to Vmax for average snow tires in Europe (190 km/h), although depending on the conditions, it may not be advisable to drive that fast.
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P
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Dec 22, 2017, 04:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My instincts tell me the problem is shit snow tires get too warm if they’re run at high speeds.
Well, they do, but this is part of what they test. What is the speed rating on your tires (the last letter)? A lot of winter tires these days are rated "Q", which is 160 km/h (100 mph).

I find that speed ratings on tires are getting very high lately. My summer tires, from the manufacturer, are "W", or 270 km/h. That's...pretty fast, for middling hatchback.
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OreoCookie
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Dec 22, 2017, 04:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Well, they do, but this is part of what they test. What is the speed rating on your tires (the last letter)? A lot of winter tires these days are rated "Q", which is 160 km/h (100 mph).
As far as I can tell, 160 km/h is the lowest rating that I was able to find.
Originally Posted by P View Post
I find that speed ratings on tires are getting very high lately. My summer tires, from the manufacturer, are "W", or 270 km/h. That's...pretty fast, for middling hatchback.
270 km/h is ambitious in any conditions, especially in winter, though
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P
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Dec 22, 2017, 04:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The other question really has little to do with snow tires, unless I catch a flat. I got a nice floor jack with a big, circular pad you put under the jack point. The van has flanges on the underbody the stock jack is meant to slot into. Is this something I need to worry about? I’ve been blessed with never needing to fix a flat (knock on wood), so I have no idea what’s normal. I was imagining having something wider for the pad to press against. This is really just a flange.
You don't have to worry that the flange won't rake the load, they're more than strong enough. The flanges are there to give the car sideways stability when jacked up, as the support surface from the stock jack against the ground is small, and you may not be standing on perfectly flat ground (sideways) when jacking up the car after a flat. Having something to grip around gives the scissor jack a little bit more margin of error. Without that, the car would start to slide off the jack as soon as the weight of the car was no longer centered over the jack.

The garage jack has a much bigger support surface towards the ground. If the ground is not flat enough so the car is off center sideways, the jack's outer support point will start to rise off the ground before it starts to slide off. Seeing that outer leg start to rise off the ground is a good time to start to worry, but you at least have that hint that you need to put a wheel on quickly and move the car if you need to do more work.

If you're worried, place the spare tire under the car after jacking it up but before removing the first. If the car slides off the jack, it will land on the tire instead of on the brake disc, minimizing damage.
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P
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Dec 22, 2017, 04:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
270 km/h is ambitious in any conditions, especially in winter, though
Oh don't tell me. I've done 200 km/h when I was late for a flight once (on the autobahn, so all legal), but that was on dry asphalt, and I'm not doing it unless I have to. The consequences of a mistake are so heavy at that point. I only know the rating of my tires because I have to replace them, and at some point I will have to figure out what I need to buy.
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subego
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Dec 22, 2017, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
You don't have to worry that the flange won't rake the load, they're more than strong enough. The flanges are there to give the car sideways stability when jacked up, as the support surface from the stock jack against the ground is small, and you may not be standing on perfectly flat ground (sideways) when jacking up the car after a flat. Having something to grip around gives the scissor jack a little bit more margin of error. Without that, the car would start to slide off the jack as soon as the weight of the car was no longer centered over the jack.

The garage jack has a much bigger support surface towards the ground. If the ground is not flat enough so the car is off center sideways, the jack's outer support point will start to rise off the ground before it starts to slide off. Seeing that outer leg start to rise off the ground is a good time to start to worry, but you at least have that hint that you need to put a wheel on quickly and move the car if you need to do more work.

If you're worried, place the spare tire under the car after jacking it up but before removing the first. If the car slides off the jack, it will land on the tire instead of on the brake disc, minimizing damage.
Thank you!

I figured it should be okay... I didn’t think the stock jack could provide much lateral support, but better safe than drop a van.
     
subego
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Dec 22, 2017, 02:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Well, they do, but this is part of what they test. What is the speed rating on your tires (the last letter)? A lot of winter tires these days are rated "Q", which is 160 km/h (100 mph).

I find that speed ratings on tires are getting very high lately. My summer tires, from the manufacturer, are "W", or 270 km/h. That's...pretty fast, for middling hatchback.
I’m not near them, but online says H, which is ironically faster than Q at 210/130.

Here’s the bit from the manual, so people don’t think I’m crazy.

     
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Dec 22, 2017, 09:44 PM
 
Being from SoCal, I refuse to live anywhere where it snows. All season tires all of the time for me.
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OreoCookie
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Dec 22, 2017, 10:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Oh don't tell me. I've done 200 km/h when I was late for a flight once (on the autobahn, so all legal), but that was on dry asphalt, and I'm not doing it unless I have to. The consequences of a mistake are so heavy at that point. I only know the rating of my tires because I have to replace them, and at some point I will have to figure out what I need to buy.
My father used to get winter tires with a Vmax of 210 km/h, and his car topped out at ~240 km/h. I don't think outside of Germany ratings matter as much

I miss driving >160 km/h. In Japan that's simply not possible, driving “fast” here means 110-120 km/h. Even on the country backroads the speed limit is often either 40-50 km/h, meaning that I can often keep up with traffic on my (muscle-powered) bike, sometimes cars and trucks slow me down.
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subego
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Dec 23, 2017, 01:13 PM
 
Over 100 (mph) on the Interstate is pretty common outside of urban areas. I used to do this all the time. The trick is to drop to 80 when coming upon a spot with a potentially hidden State Trooper.

Only got pinched twice, and one was when the Trooper was actually on the Interstate, but a semi was blocking my view of him.

We were making a four hour trip back to the city from a location scout for a movie. We told the Trooper this, but he didn’t believe us, because we “didn’t have equipment”. He assumed we were drug mules, separated us, started tearing up the car, and said we needed to wait for the drug dogs.

This normally wouldn’t be a problem, but I had lost a roach in there, so it was potentially bad news.

Thankfully I had learned you put the date on the polaroids you take during a scout, and when he found the stack in the glove compartment, he realized we were legit.

Finally found the roach a few months later.
( Last edited by subego; Dec 23, 2017 at 02:47 PM. )
     
subego
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Dec 23, 2017, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Being from SoCal, I refuse to live anywhere where it snows. All season tires all of the time for me.
If it were practical, I’d move to Key West in a second.

SoCal is fine, but for whatever reason I prefer the Atlantic/Gulf to the Pacific, and prefer swamp to desert.


Edit: I do like the desert, but I can’t stand when people pretend it’s not, which I find common in SoCal. WTF with all this grass?
( Last edited by subego; Dec 23, 2017 at 02:14 PM. )
     
OldManMac
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Dec 23, 2017, 09:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Last thing to keep in mind is that Blizzaks (and most other hardcore snow/winter tires) are squishy soft on the road compared to all seasons, so you need to give yourself extra braking distance. This is normal. Also go slower if there is heavy rain.
Not only braking distance, but handling considerations. I put a set of Blizzaks on my Explorer last December ( a friend owns a tire shop and gave me a decent price, plus he stores my other tires and wheels for free when it's time to switch out), and I can tell the difference in handling as soon as I have them switched; it's more squirrelly, and I have to adjust my driving. I live in metro Detroit, so we have some snowy winters (100+ inches a couple of years ago).
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subego
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Dec 23, 2017, 10:35 PM
 
They do feel a bit squishy to me, but I haven’t noticed braking difference.

I drive very chill because it’s a van, though. Also, no highway, snow, rain, or weather really that cold yet. Had some right before I put them on.

On Tuesday I’m seeing family in the burbs, and it’s supposed to be 10°, so I can knock two of those off the list.
     
Laminar
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Jan 2, 2018, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Not only braking distance, but handling considerations. I put a set of Blizzaks on my Explorer last December ( a friend owns a tire shop and gave me a decent price, plus he stores my other tires and wheels for free when it's time to switch out), and I can tell the difference in handling as soon as I have them switched; it's more squirrelly, and I have to adjust my driving.
Wife's Edge runs 20" stock wheels/tires, but grabbed a set of 17" steel wheels from an Explorer to put Blizzaks on. Putting the snow tires on the car is such a relief - the ride is so much more compliant, the steering is 100x easier, and it's all around a better driving experience.
     
subego
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Apr 7, 2018, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Over 100 (mph) on the Interstate is pretty common outside of urban areas. I used to do this all the time. The trick is to drop to 80 when coming upon a spot with a potentially hidden State Trooper.
Somebody gave in, and the speed limits on the interstate around here are going up to 70!

Now I only need to go 10 over the limit to stay with traffic, instead of 20-25.
     
turtle777
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Apr 7, 2018, 06:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Somebody gave in, and the speed limits on the interstate around here are going up to 70!

Now I only need to go 10 over the limit to stay with traffic, instead of 20-25.
Yes, hallelujah. Finally.

Recently, I was going 80mph in a 55mph designated stretch of I90W.

Car behind me approaches fast, I pull over to the right-er lane.
Cop is passing me going 85mph+, not even a shrug.

Another time, some asshat was going "only" 70mph in the left lane (mind you, posted speed limit was 55mph).
Police pulls up behind him, turning on the their lights.

Guy starts moving over to the right lanes, to getting ready to stop.
Police didn't care. They just wanted to clear the left lane and pass.

-t
     
subego
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Apr 7, 2018, 07:27 PM
 
I’m certainly happy about it, but there’s this tiny bit of me which isn’t going to get over the part where people have been complaining the speed limit is too low my entire life.

That’s almost 50 years it’s taken everyone to sort out not simply being wrong, but in your face wrong.
     
reader50
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Apr 7, 2018, 10:14 PM
 
Shows how responsive our politicians are to public concerns.

The western states did raise the limits sooner. Unfortunately, they had to force a change in Congress first. The 55 speed limit had been tied to federal highway funds. Raise the limit without getting the fed law changed, and a state would have to cover a whole lot more in highway maintenance.

However, once the fed logjam was broken, it was up to each state. Western states quickly raised it. The rest were less responsive.
     
subego
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Apr 7, 2018, 11:40 PM
 
We’ve had 70 for awhile, but either state or municipal authorities refused to allow it close to populated areas. The the entire corridor between Wisconsin and Indiana is quite seriously populated.
     
And.reg  (op)
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Apr 8, 2018, 08:25 AM
 
I've heard rumors that the norm for people rushing through Montana was 110 mph. Any validity to that?
Yours truly, And.reg, "The Mighty" Pain in the Ass
     
P
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Apr 8, 2018, 02:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Somebody gave in, and the speed limits on the interstate around here are going up to 70!

Now I only need to go 10 over the limit to stay with traffic, instead of 20-25.
I would not be surprised if this means that the average speed of traffic drops to 70. If people don't accept the speed limit and decide to speed, they tend to drive faster than if they think that the limit is reasonable but on the low side. This is what happened in Sweden - we had 110 km/h (70 mph, more or less) on highways, and politicians decided to drop it to 90 km/h (55 mph, essentially). This lead to the speed in the left lane becoming 119 km/h, because the penalties for being more than 30 km/h over the speed limit were much more severe than being under that limit, so people stayed exactly 29 km/h over the limit. After a few years, sanity prevailed, and the speed was reset to 110 km/h on a lot of stretches, and speed dropped back down to 110 km/h. Some people speed still, but a much smaller number.

Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Another time, some asshat was going "only" 70mph in the left lane (mind you, posted speed limit was 55mph).
Police pulls up behind him, turning on the their lights.

Guy starts moving over to the right lanes, to getting ready to stop.
Police didn't care. They just wanted to clear the left lane and pass.

-t
Something similar happened to me in Italy. Speed limit is 130 km/h (80 mph) on the highways there, but this was a roadwork zone, and the speed was decreased a lot as a result - I think it said 50 km/h. The thing is, nobody was working at the time - one lane was closed, but nobody was working there. I didn't know what to do, but I had noticed that absolutely nobody kept to 50 km/h. Every time I was in one of these zones, cars were queueing up behind me. I decided that I would drive a little faster, around 70 km/h, thinking that if I got caught it would just be a fine and not losing my license.

On one of these stretches, I police car catches up to me, blue lights flashing. I figure that he was stopping me from speeding, so as soon as the lane closure ends, I move over to the right lane. Police speeds right by. He just wanted to pass.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
 
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