[raferx]

Everyone I think we should all take a moment and tell Steve Jobs what the Mac faithful are hoping/looking for in the new PMac lineup. I would like this to be a serious thread that will reflect what real Mac users need to be competitive in the most competitive market of all. DESKTOP COMPUTING.

[jwblase]

A more modular architecture. Things like better hardware support for sound cards, more expansion bays, etc...

Also: A rack-system model just for server use. There is a HUGE potential market for this, but Apple has let this one slip.

JB

[ 12-31-2001: Message edited by: jwblase ]

[raferx]

I need this from Steve and Co.:
1.2 ghz + Desktops
Hypertransport or similar I/O
DDR Ram and at least 80 Gig HD's across the line
A 17 inch LCD Display that is capable of 1600x1200
Firewire 2 and a Superdrive that can burn dual density/double-sided DVD's
ALL Apple Apps ready for OS X

If all that or even close to that could come true I would be a very
happy camper indeed. I'm buying in January so I sure hope Steve can deliver.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

I would like to see Apple take their cinema displays to a new level. Please reduce the price on the 22" display. Also, please make dual monitor support standard on your new graphics cards.

The only thing better than a Apple Cinema Display is two Apple Cinema Displays.

[silverghost]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
<STRONG>I would like to see Apple take their cinema displays to a new level. Please reduce the price on the 22" display. Also, please make dual monitor support standard on your new graphics cards.

The only thing better than a Apple Cinema Display is two Apple Cinema Displays.</STRONG>

haha, i agree. on the apple web store i configured a dual 800 for fun and i was able to make one with a geforce 3 and a radeon. now does that mean that i can run 2 flat panels?


aloha

[raferx]

Dual ADC support should be a standard Video card option on the new Macs... great points from everyone so far, c'mon lets hear more!

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by silverghost:
<STRONG>

haha, i agree. on the apple web store i configured a dual 800 for fun and i was able to make one with a geforce 3 and a radeon. now does that mean that i can run 2 flat panels?


aloha</STRONG>

not necessarily. i believe that a graphics card has to be built specifically to support dual displays.

So, if you have 2 cards...it means nothing if one of them isn't built for supporting dual monitors.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by raferx:
<STRONG>Everyone I think we should all take a moment and tell Steve Jobs what the Mac faithful are hoping/looking for in the new PMac lineup. I would like this to be a serious thread that will reflect what real Mac users need to be competitive in the most competitive market of all. DESKTOP COMPUTING.

</STRONG>

Nah, I think we should wait and see how he handles this... it could be very amusing. Heh.

[MikeM32]

I doubt we'll see a "standard" dual video card. I don't even know of any computer that comes with such a standard. The option of adding a second card will always be available I'm sure. Maybe we'll see an optional card with dual display capabilities, but I highly doubt it'll ever be "standard-issue".

I think a larger second expansion bay is over-due. Of course Apple needs to break the Ghz barrier once and for all. Faster BUS speed or DDR RAM.

Mike

[zac4mac]

For dual monitors, you currently have two options.
GF2MX Twinview supports two all by itself.
Install a second card. I have a Radeon AGP(ADC) and an Orion PCI in my duallie, and in my 8500, 4 MB MoBo VRAM and an 8 MB PCI vid card. Both run dual monitors just fine.
Only question I have is: if you BTO a GF3 AGP and a Radeon or GF2 PCI, do you get two ADC outs, or do you get what I have now? One ADC and one VGA...

[raferx]

When I said "standard option" I should have been more clear. I meant that it should be a BTO option, standard in the sense that it is at least available thru Apple.

[Diggory Laycock]

BlueTooth

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
<STRONG>


not necessarily. i believe that a graphics card has to be built specifically to support dual displays.

So, if you have 2 cards...it means nothing if one of them isn't built for supporting dual monitors.</STRONG>

Uhm... nope. Since 1987 (the original MacII), you could slap any two (or more up to available slots) and have automatic support for that many displays. The cards didn't need any special "support".

This is a Mac here. You plug stuff in, and they work!

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by hayesk:
<STRONG>
Uhm... nope. Since 1987 (the original MacII), you could slap any two (or more up to available slots) and have automatic support for that many displays. The cards didn't need any special "support".</STRONG>

well, you know more than me. I figured since the tech specialist at work ordered a special more advanced card instead of a ghetto second card then that must have been the reason.

I still may be right though in this sense though....a special dual display card is needed for some higher resolutions right? correct me if i'm wrong

[Cipher13]

Resolution is dependent on the card, yes; but if you're just installing a second card, well, it'll be powerful enough.

A second card is a better option than a dual-head video card anyway, IMO.

[jcadam]

Macs need:

1. More cache! I want at least a 1M on die L2 cache (This would be more important to me than higher clock speeds). Maybe also an even larger off-die L3 cache (2-4Meg) The ZIF G3s and G4s have a slower, but larger off-die 1Meg L2 cache and they perfrom better in some situations than an equiv. clocked chip w/ 256k on-die L2. 2.

2. Faster bus, perhaps a 133Mhz DDR bus (w/ DDR RAM also).

3. more freakin expansion slots (make them 66mhz 64-bit PCI). In addidtion to 1 AGP slot I want at least 5 or 6 PCI slots (in my power system). Also, more drive bays!!! (A full-tower PowerMacintosh w/o resorting to ATX conversions)

4. It is OK to have more than just 2 models of desktop computer, How about something in-between the iMac and the PowerMac towers. Perhaps bring back the desktop form factor (not everyone likes towers anyway) for a mid-range macintosh. A lot of people want more expandability than the iMac (I'll never, ever buy an iMac) but don't want to lay down the $$ for a PowerMac tower.

Maybe I'm out of line, I dunno, I used to be a PC user but I switched to mac because it's a better platform and for Mac OS X. But I still like some aspects of the PC (modular design, more customization options, etc) a little bit better.

[Dan Szwarc]

Give us performance that at least compares well to a 2GHz P4! Everything else is secondary until we can say a Mac is as fast as a PC and not just in Photoshop, but in everything (browsing, copying files, typical stuff). No more sub-gigahertz processors, please!

6 PCI slots? Maybe for a top of the line machine. I sure don't need it.

How about a PowerMac for the home user? iMacs are for novices and PowerMacs are for Power users. Give us something in between.

And how about a software package with Office? All the damn PC users can get the "small business edition" of office with their PC from Dell or Gateway, why not from Apple? We'd like to use our computers when we pull them out of the box! Not buy more software!

How about 256MB of ram minimum? If it's so cheap, why can't Apple make it standard? You can still gouge us on ram upgrades at the Apple store!

How about monitors with VGA too? We all WANT to buy a flat panel apple monitor, whether it's for a mac or a PC, but we CAN'T because of this stupid ADC. Standard VGA sells displays!

No less than 60GB drives in everything. iBooks and PBs should have 30Gb minimum. We need space for that digital video!

Rant over...

[CityGuy2003]

(1) a "midrange" model: something between the imac and the powermac, maybe desktop form factor maybe tower, im not sure, but something that gives people another option...

(2) servers: rackmounted, hot swappable drives...if apple ever wants to capitalize on os x server than it is going to have to build the hardware to go along with the software...

(3) software: the pro models especially need standard software: word processor, spreadsheet, presentation...office essentials be they from MS or wherever a full fledged office suite is needed...on the consumer machines you could have MS word and AppleWorks, on the pro machines you could have MS Office...

[Scotttheking]

Here is mine.

Case

• 3 or more 5.25 drive bays
• 1 3.5
• 4 internal HDs
• use ultra quiet fans for the PS and for the case

System itself

• Faster proc, either G5(X2 is good) or G4X2 at much higher clock
• DDR ram, preferably running at a 400MHz effective clock
• 2 ATA100/66 drive connectors for the 4 external bays
• 2 ATA100 Raid controllers for the 4 internal bays
• Superdrive or DVD/CD-RW, and make that CDRW part a fast one
• Get the new Geforce and Radeon cards for AGP, and include a ADC to DVI adaptor, VGA, and svideo
• PCI ADC/DVI (adaptor), VGA, svideo
• 5 or 6 PCI slots
• Faster Firewire, and 4 ports, 1 or 2 on front
• USB 2, 6 ports on back, 2 on front

That's about it.
Should be a pretty complete system

[MacGorilla]

I Ghz PPCs--G4 or G5
AirPort Cards standard
USB printer sharing in 10.x
Software Base Station

[Millennium]

I'd like to see the following:

• Faster system buses.
• DDR RAM (although I'd take just a port of DDR, if the pads are available )
• Another PCI slot. I used to think five PCI slots were enough; I've changed my tune.
• Lower prices on the flatscreen monitors.

That said, time for a dose of realism. What we'll probably see:

• We'll break 1-GHz. Whether it's via the G4 or G5, I don't claim to know.
• Updates to the Desktop line, most likely, to account for the faster chips. Probably a formal introduction of the Combo Drive TiBook as well.
• Updates to the iMac line. However, I don't think we'll see a flat-panel iMac; the screens are still Just Too Expensive.

What we might see:

• Another iDevice.
• Another iApplication.

What we probably won't see:

• AppleWorks 6.5 or 7.0 (please please please make it a decent Carbon app...)
• Another minor OSX update (though personally, at this rate I'd be happy as a clam with just a decent Installer app, to replace Apple's current rancid offering).

What we definitely won't see:

• An Apple PDA. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.
• A sub-$500 machine. Shame, too; a G3 Cube at that price point, billed as "ideal for home networking", could do well.
• Full support for older-model iMac and Beige G3's in OSX. And dammit, I have four of those machines to take care of...
• The GeForce 4 Adamantium. "It rips the competition to shreds!"

[jcadam]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
<STRONG>Here is mine.

Case

• 3 or more 5.25 drive bays
• 1 3.5
• 4 internal HDs
• use ultra quiet fans for the PS and for the case

System itself

• Faster proc, either G5(X2 is good) or G4X2 at much higher clock
• DDR ram, preferably running at a 400MHz effective clock
• 2 ATA100/66 drive connectors for the 4 external bays
• 2 ATA100 Raid controllers for the 4 internal bays
• Superdrive or DVD/CD-RW, and make that CDRW part a fast one
• Get the new Geforce and Radeon cards for AGP, and include a ADC to DVI adaptor, VGA, and svideo
• PCI ADC/DVI (adaptor), VGA, svideo
• 5 or 6 PCI slots
• Faster Firewire, and 4 ports, 1 or 2 on front
• USB 2, 6 ports on back, 2 on front

That's about it.
Should be a pretty complete system </STRONG>

My ATI Radeon PCI has VGA, DVI, and S-Video ports on the card.

Perhaps the vid cards in new Apple system could at least have an ADC AND a DVI connector. If they need to make a double-wide (takes up two slot spaces) vid card to get all the connectors on there so be it. Some of the AGP Pro cards for the PC are double-wide cards. The Studio Displays should be able to get input from both ADC and DVI also.

Perhaps in the top-of-the-line powermacs the AGP slot could be upgraded to an AGP Pro slot? We would of course need high-powered AGP Pro cards to go with it

[JoeG4]

And a Free Trade in for all the quicksilver buyers to their relative machine.

Example:

DP800 buyers would get a free DP1600, or whatever

[Romulus]

I gots an Idea! Like with the PCs, why dont we make it so that you can buy it seperatly? Like the case from Apple, with a MoBo and a Proc, but the RAM from whomever (DDR 2100, of course) and the HDs from where ever. I am sick of paying like 2000$ for what I can get on a PC for 1200$...and on the PC, it can play TONS of games!

Rant over, sorta

Wouldnt it be nice for the iMac to just be a desktop, with out a display? I HATE THE DISPLAY BEING BUILT IN!!! I would like to be able to get a G4, but they cost too much, so I have to get a POS iMac... But if the system and display were seperat and were decent priced, it wouold be good... Ah well...

Get me DDR 2100!

[Mack]

While faster bus speeds and DDR Ram and raw processor speed are big deals to computer enthusiasts, I think the average guy, the guy who is buying a machine for his kids or an upgrade for himself, doesn't focus on these sorts of minutiae. For every Mac/PC that is sold to a true computer fanatic, probably ten are sold to average folks who just want to know that they will have a reliable machine that will let them do the things they enjoy: internet, music, photo/video, games, basic office work and perhaps some financial work.

PCs are dominant, not because they have faster specs, but because of the wealth of software and peripherals they can support. And with a a hundred people developing products for PCs for every one developing products for Macs, most innovative products tend to appear first on the PC side. At least, that's the perception among among the vast majority of the consumers who comprise the kinds of market share leaps that Apple hopes to make.

But the PC world has hit a wall, I think. Something of a lack-of-identity crisis. For example, the vast majority of people who bought new PCs lately didn't buy the most advanced 2ghz machines; they bought lower-priced, lower-spec machines. And the PC manufacturers are having to resort to lower and lower prices, by selling cheaper and cheaper systems, because none of them can establish any brand dominance over the others. PCs have become largely interchangeable to the average guy.

Apple is the one company that has true brand identity. Macs are inherently cool and the average guy will pay a premium for that, provided he is convinced that he can still do everything at least as well as he can do them on a PC. The new iMacs certainly will attract the notice of the average guy and, at least for a moment, prompt him to reconsider the Mac. But, to land him in any substantial numbers, Apple is going to have to offer more than just a pretty new face. Or even faster specs.

Apple is doing the right thing, I think, by emphasizing the music/photo/video capabilities of Macs. And with Office X, Macs can hold their own with PCs on the productivity front. Apple still needs to address the glaring hole in its gaming capabilities (a PS2 emulator perhaps).

In the midst of the current malaise in the PC world, Apple has a great opportunity. If it can communicate a unique product to go with its already unique brand.

[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Mack ]

[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Mack ]

[tullamore]

Sorry raferx but it's a little late, they can't just put together new products in two days!

[Christopher]

Okay.....New case for the G-5.Totally Futuristic Design and Color...Make the WinTel Platform users salivate over it.Steve Jobs and Team have done it before...they can do it again.Motorola MPC 8500, HyperTransport,Rapid IO,C-Cube/
MPEG-4 chip on motherboard,Raycer Chip for O/S-X,DVD-R/CDRW,Wireless card
built-in,DDR-Ram,starting with 1 Gig of Ram,N-Vidia 32 Megs VRam or Lisa
64-Megs of VRam,100 Gig HD / 10,000 RPM,Broadband built-in,etc..Offer a Dual
G-4 2.2 GHz for later in the year.Taking orders now but the wait time is
3-5 months.iMac G-4,etc..Put the Apollo chip in the coming G-4 Ti for Tokyo.We hard-core long-timers...need G-5 not a middle of the path
G-4 1.4 GHz, 600 Mhz bus....Why Apollo for the name???Space Mission or
Greek Mythology?What Up???

[raferx]

I just wanted this to be a post about reasonable expectations for MWSF, what we needed, not fantasy... just realistically what we would want to see. I think everyone has been very reasonable, I know its late but you know what they say.
BETTER LATE THAN NEVER!