[stevesnj]

Who won this debate?

[dcmacdaddy]

You need a "Neither" choice as well.

[design219]

This was McCain's strong point subject, but I think Obama came off quite well.

[BigBadWolf]

I didn't think either won. However, I liked McCain better, but accidently voted for barry in the poll. So, my vote is really for McCain, not barry.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

You need a "Neither" choice as well.

Well not answering the poll is a 'Neither' choice.

[Dork.]

Both candidates were very sharp, but neither was very inspiring. While it increased my confidence that either candidate would govern better than the current President, I don't think this debate alone will have much of an impact on what people think about the election.

I think I would say Obama won, because he had more to prove in this debate, both on the foreign policy front and on the general experience front, and did quite well in that regard. But that doesn't mean McCain did poorly -- in fact, I think he did exceptionally well. I wish this McCain was around in 2000. I might have even voted for him.

[olePigeon]

I'm undecided. I think they both did fairly well, but McCain was better spoken than Obama. Obama seemed to spend a lot of his time doing damage control, addressing half-truths from McCain and clarifying misconceptions. I think Obama addressed the questions a little better than McCain, but neither said anything that we haven't already heard.

I was equally frustrated as Jim Lehrer when both candidates kept avoiding the question about what programs they might have to drop or delay because of the bail out. Neither one wanted to change anything they've already said because they'd be instantly labeled as a "flip flop."

[design219]

I'm looking forward to the VP debates. I think that will be much more fun.

[stevesnj]

I do think they both did well but Obama came across clear and just presidential. McCain just sems to be playing the 'soldier'/'hero' thing too much. But he is a hero.

[Dakar V]

Obama opened strong, but I thought McCain took a nice amount of wind out of his sails by the end.

McCain got the only audience chuckle of the night, as far as I can recall.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Obama opened strong, but I thought McCain took a nice amount of wind out of his sails by the end.

McCain got the only audience chuckle of the night, as far as I can recall.

But was the audience laughing at him, or with him?

[Timothy Leary's brain]

I heard McCain was shot down. Oh, and taken prisoner. Actually I heard they both held their own.
Should be a third choice for 'no ****ing idea I was too drunk and oding on funk'.

[::maroma::]

McCain wasn't wearing a flag pin.

Discuss.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

But was the audience laughing at him, or with him?

Definitely WITH him. It was a small point though.

Obama looked flustered at times, during those times it seemed he wandered off the page his handlers had prepared for him. He became defensive and gave the impression that he was insecure. However, neither candidate destroyed the other and it was fairly close. It wasn't a performance that would change minds, and I doubt it would make anyone choose if they were undecided.

54% McCain, 46% Obama

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Definitely WITH him. It was a small point though.

Obama looked flustered at times, during those times it seemed he wandered off the page his handlers had prepared for him. He became defensive and gave the impression that he was insecure. However, neither candidate destroyed the other and it was fairly close. It wasn't a performance that would change minds, and I doubt it would make anyone choose if they were undecided.

54% McCain, 46% Obama

If Iran says they want to bomb Israel, what do you say? No, you can't?

Guess McCain would say go ahead. We'll bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.

[smacintush]

I can agree with the analogy of a boxing match. McCain wins in a split decision. No knockout. No clearly decisive win.

I also don't understand the notion that Obama didn't embarrass himself therefore he won. This isn't high school, this is a Presidential race. It seems irresponsible to credit a win to a guy because he had to fake it to do well.

[Dakar V]

Glad to see the poll isn't dividing along ideological lines...

[Gee-Man]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I can agree with the analogy of a boxing match. McCain wins in a split decision. No knockout. No clearly decisive win.

I also don't understand the notion that Obama didn't embarrass himself therefore he won. This isn't high school, this is a Presidential race. It seems irresponsible to credit a win to a guy because he had to fake it to do well.

It's not about that. For months, you folks on the right have been saying that Obama can't talk without a teleprompter, he's an empty suit, he'll get destroyed in foreign policy, he's dangerously misinformed about Russia/Iran/insert-country-here, blah blah.

This debate was supposed to be McCain's strong suit - if we were to believe the conservatives, Obama was supposed to be absolutely crushed tonight. The fact that a rookie, first-term senator just went through a 90-minute debate with a 26-year veteran senator and not only held his own, but convinced more than a few people that he's ready to be C-in-C, means that yes, he did do exceptionally well tonight. By normal circumstances, this shouldn't have been close.

You can disagree with Obama's positions, but he's proved he's no neophyte here.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

It seems irresponsible to credit a win to a guy because he had to fake it to do well.

Definition of a politician

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Gee-Man 

It's not about that. For months, you folks on the right have been saying that Obama can't talk without a teleprompter, he's an empty suit, he'll get destroyed in foreign policy, he's dangerously misinformed about Russia/Iran/insert-country-here, blah blah.

This debate was supposed to be McCain's strong suit - if we were to believe the conservatives, Obama was supposed to be absolutely crushed tonight. The fact that a rookie, first-term senator just went through a 90-minute debate with a 26-year veteran senator and not only held his own, but convinced more than a few people that he's ready to be C-in-C, means that yes, he did do exceptionally well tonight. By normal circumstances, this shouldn't have been close.

You can disagree with Obama's positions, but he's proved he's no neophyte here.

That's all fine but he shouldn't get "extra credit" for being the underdog. That is just rooting for your team rather than responsible deliberation.

Obama came across as very practiced. Little to none of his responses were based in any substantive experience on the part of Obama. He crammed for an oral exam and he did well. Personally, I'd prefer the guy who didn't have to cram. I prefer the guy who can spend the week doing…other things…and still come and win by speaking out of his experience rather than having good coaching.

[SDW2001]

Obama won Round 1/Question 1 on the economy. McCain looked nervous and was a bit disorganized in his answer.

McCain got back on track when he tackled earmarks. He then started firing on all cylinders as this issue went on.

After this point, I think McCain pretty much won the remaining rounds. Obama had some points about how much we're spending in Iraq and about focusing on Afghanistan and AQ. But Obama got clobbered on some things. For example, McCain hammered him on the meeting without pre-conditions thing. Then as Obama bounced up, McCain Wack-A-Moled him with the comment about sitting across from President Ahmadinejhad listening to him say "I want to destroy Israel..wipe it off the map." McCain said "what are we going to do...say no?" That got a laugh, as did the comment earlier on: "What...did you think I couldn't hear him?"

I also thought Obama pulled a Gore with his demeanor. He kept calling McCain "John," which frankly I thought was disrespectful. He smirked and interrupted at times, especially at the end. He looked slightly frustrated sometimes. He got knocked off balance on the experience issue, and earmarks. McCain's comments on business taxes went unanswered. Neither candidate said much about what he would give up in terms of fiscal priorities considering our current economic situation, but Obama's answer was worse because in the middle of claiming he would go "line by line" in examining spending (line item veto has been found unconstitutional, btw), he talked about spending MORE money on certain things, like early childhood education. This was a big mistake. The entire point is that we spend too much. It's not the time to talk about what needs more funding. Obama instead did the old bait and switch, comparing "tax cuts for the rich" to government spending, which are of course different things.

Last, I thought Obama made some transparent attacks that didn't come off well. For example, he did the tried and true "The Bush Administration, supported by John McCain...." thing, which has been part of the Democratic "Bush-McCain Economy" talking point this week. I thought McCain, while he certainly attacked Obama on lack of experience and his foreign policy naivete, was more forthright about it. He said "I honestly don't believe that Senator Obama has the experience and judgement to be President." It was authentic and direct. In that same vein, I also thought he scored big when he said "I love them and they know I'll take care of them" with respect to veterans. I'm not sure I've ever hear a politician put something quite that way before.

Anyway, yeah...I thought McCain won. It was a good debate though. Neither candidate knocked out the other or made ridiculous gaffes.

Round I: McCain

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

If Iran says they want to bomb Israel, what do you say? No, you can't?

Guess McCain would say go ahead. We'll bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.

what are you going on about? No president will change our current policy towards Israel. No politician is that stupid, not even Obama.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by SDW2001 

I also thought Obama pulled a Gore with his demeanor. He kept calling McCain "John," which frankly I thought was disrespectful.

How in god's name is that disrespectful?

[Shaddim]

McCain should have called him Barry, would have been a massive coup.

[Dakar V]

That would have been awesome.

[besson3c]

I think Obama ought to take some acting lessons and figure out how to manipulate by making more emotionally loaded statements. McCain does this fairly well.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think Obama ought to take some acting lessons and figure out how to manipulate by making more emotionally loaded statements. McCain does this fairly well.

Well he could have at least memorized that soldiers name on his bracelet before he said; "Oh look! I've got one too! See!"

[keekeeree]

After reading some of the comments on here and listening to some of the post-debate comments on the tube, people see and hear what they want to see and hear...although the amount of spin some folks put on their interpretation borders on delusional.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by keekeeree 

After reading some of the comments on here and listening to some of the post-debate comments on the tube, people see and hear what they want to see and hear...although the amount of spin some folks put on their interpretation borders on delusional.

It just goes to show how even it was. If Obama had really blown it there would be some here admitting it. Same for McCain. As it is neither candidate did a whole lot to scare away their supporters.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I was equally frustrated as Jim Lehrer when both candidates kept avoiding the question about what programs they might have to drop or delay because of the bail out.

That was a stupid question, and both candidates had the right answer: who says we have to drop a whole other program because of the bail-out? If we need to tighten our belts, for any reason, the way to do it is not to cut whole programs with a broad stroke, it's basically to do what McCain said earlier, to go through the budget and cut the fat piece by piece. It's not like the fat is hard to find.

[ebuddy]

I didn't vote. I can't tell any more. I think I've lost any objectivity. I was so flustered with McCain's flake-fest this week that everything coming out of his mouth seemed sniveling, nervous, and a little stilted or forced.

Originally, I had this thing kind of internally scored as Obama- 9, McCain- 7. My wife thought I was crazy. I put a lot of weight into delivery and frankly Obama delivered his message exponentially more effectively.

- Obama's vision seemed more forward-focused; relating to the futures of technology, space exploration and expansion, economic stimulus, and what he intends to do for 95% of Americans, with focus on "middle-class" on several occasions. That's most of us. McCain mentioned very little of technological advancement, his ideals on economic stimulus were vague and failed to hit the mark. His focus seemed mired in the past and focused primarily on veterans. That's few of us. Obama provided a fresh, sharp example of what brilliant oratorship should look like in a Presidential candidate and McCain held up his sharpie in a somewhat tired and uncomfortable display of old-school politicin'. Obama often addressed McCain head-on while McCain didn't appear able to actually even look at Obama. Overall delivery, gravitas, and sober rhetoric hands down Obama. In review of specifics however, I think the score begins to blur.

- McCain charged Obama with specifics regarding spending packages and it stuck. Obama tried to pin Bush on McCain and it didn't stick. Obama tried to stick McCain with tax cuts for the wealthy and it didn't stick while McCain challenged Obama on what he views as "wealthy" and it stuck.

- Neither one had very substantive replies to Lehrer regarding this bailout crisis. McCain threw a left hook of cutting all new spending and Obama ducked, fired back with the need to spend particularly in early childhood education. He suggested that his programs were "paid for", but didn't put any effort into an offensive here. McCain moved by suggesting not that we eliminate programs, but that we consolidate a bloated bureaucracy with an impassioned call for scouring all government programs and departments for waste and abuse citing specific examples. This was a rather long exchange with no clear winner until McCain urged listeners to look up the record on Obama's voting record. This one stuck and left a quirky look on Obama's face.

- On foreign policy, McCain was obviously better able to draw on personal experiences, charged Obama with not caring enough to have actually visited the regions in question or talked with the experts in charge and it stuck. McCain indicted Obama with naivete on several occasions and one of them stuck; the Pakistan exchange. McCain was even able to back Obama into the ropes by connecting him to Bush which was an interesting move. Listening to McCain rattle off names of several noteworthy middle eastern figures and personal experiences with each, one is reminded that while McCain is seasoned, he is not senile. Obama was forced to acknowledge his choice of Biden for experience in foreign policy. Exchange McCain.

In hindsight, I give McCain- 7, Obama- 6.5, but I'm not comfortable enough in my assessment to vote in this poll. I just don't know any more.

[Rumor]

"brilliant oratorship"

Not sure if you are old enough, or if you are a student of history, but does that seem reminiscent of someone?

(Not a jab. I really have no idea how old you are.)

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by SDW2001 

He kept calling McCain "John," which frankly I thought was disrespectful. He smirked and interrupted at times, especially at the end.

Blame the format of the debate for that. The moderator repeatedly implored the candidates to talk directly to each other, and the debate was structured to have "free-for-all" time. Obama addressed McCain directly several times, looking directly at him. He also interrupted only during the "free-for-all" portions, letting McCain have his say in the two minute direct answer periods.
McCain didn't see to be quite as comfortable with the format. I don't think he directly addressed Obama once.

I didn't really like the format.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

"brilliant oratorship"

Not sure if you are old enough, or if you are a student of history, but does that seem reminiscent of someone?

FDR? JFK? MLK? Or are we already invoking Godwin's law this early in the thread Just because someone is a good orator doesn't mean all good orators are like <######>.

Seriously though. The debate was not much of a game changer. No serious revelations or gaffes by either candidate ... I don't think a lot of minds are going to be changed by this one.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Well he could have at least memorized that soldiers name on his bracelet before he said; "Oh look! I've got one too! See!"

How many points was this worth?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

How in god's name is that disrespectful?

Are you really being serious? Obama was trying to be condescending by using his first name, rather than his title. These guys are, after all, trying to be POTUS. They should have used at least "Mr. xxx", but "Senator xxx" would have been most appropriate.

It's just Obama trying -- and failing -- to seem like he's above McCain.

[spacefreak]

1. I learned nothing new about the candidates' positions.

2. Both McCain and Obama had memorized snippets that they seemed to repeat over and over. Obama looked to have about 12 od these. McCain about half as many memorized, and as a result seemed more repetitive. How that works out, I don't know. It was a bit of a yawner for me as I watched the entire debate. But if someone tuned in for only 15 minutes, they were going to get a better snapshot of McCain's positions.

3. Obama was smoother than McCain. But over the course of the debate, this appeared more and more like aloofness.

4. McCain had quite a few run-on sentences, as he tried to inject his positions on more issues than the question necessitated (see #2).

5. Obama has no problems whatsoever covering up or misstating his positions. He's obviously fearful of the fallout he'd get if he truly explained his proposed taxation. The $250,000/year threshold is deceitful, and he know it. Truth is, someone making $150,000 is going to take a hit as well under Obama - perhaps not directly via fed. income tax - and their employers' will be stifled by taxes as well.

6. McCain missed out on the opportunity to describe in full his tax reform plans. He briefly mentioned his idea of us having an option of filing a much-simplified tax return. If anyone is familiar with Steve Forbes' flat tax idea (17%), part of his plan was filing your tax return on the back of a postcard. I've wanted this since I first heard Forbes preach it in 2000. McCain's approach looks to me to be a bridge-like step towards this. So I wished we could have heard more.

7. Obama looks good and talks smoothly.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

Are you really being serious? Obama was trying to be condescending by using his first name, rather than his title. These guys are, after all, trying to be POTUS. They should have used at least "Mr. xxx", but "Senator xxx" would have been most appropriate.

It's just Obama trying -- and failing -- to seem like he's above McCain.

Yeah, but McCain wasn't wearing a flag pin, so he was clearly disrespecting his country which is much worse.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by SDW2001 

I also thought Obama pulled a Gore with his demeanor. He kept calling McCain "John," which frankly I thought was disrespectful.

When speaking directly to McCain, how do you think Obama *should* have addressed him?

[besson3c]

Maybe "Senator POW hero maverick, sir"

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

"brilliant oratorship"

Not sure if you are old enough, or if you are a student of history, but does that seem reminiscent of someone?

(Not a jab. I really have no idea how old you are.)

Ronald Reagan?

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by spacefreak 

7. Obama looks good and talks smoothly.

Not only that, but he's articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy!

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Maybe "Senator POW hero maverick, sir"

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Krusty 

FDR? JFK? MLK? Or are we already invoking Godwin's law this early in the thread Just because someone is a good orator doesn't mean all good orators are like <######>.

Seriously though. The debate was not much of a game changer. No serious revelations or gaffes by either candidate ... I don't think a lot of minds are going to be changed by this one.

I was referring to JFK. Not much of a Godwin's Law kind of guy.

[lpkmckenna]

McCain referring to himself a maverick, several times, was sad.

Is McCain unable to turn his head to the left? Because I don't think he looked at Obama even once.

I was really perplexed by McCain's comments about the US losing the Vietnam war. Technically, the US didn't lose, they just left the field.

Obama's best moment was the three times "you were wrong" on Iraq stuff.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I was really perplexed by McCain's comments about the US losing the Vietnam war. Technically, the US didn't lose, they just left the field.

By any military definition of "win or lose the war," they lost.

greg

[chris v]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but a day later, my assessment is that this one isn't going to change the minds of anyone already solidly leaning one way or the other. There were no huge gaffes or blunders for the other side to seize on, and they both came off as pretty well prepared, and on top of their games. I was more impressed with McCain that I expected to be, frankly.

It looks like it's a slight leaner towards Obama amongst undecideds, at this point from the polling I've seen. I'd attribute that to the usual debate "intangibles," like body language and stuff. Obama definitely has a general communication advantage, whatever it is he's saying, compared to McCain, who never looked Obama in the eye, even when they shook hands, and rarely looked at the camera. He might have come off as a little distant.

[Big Mac]

McCain started off in the first part of the debate with an unfocused message on the economy, the bail-out or the reason why we're at this point economically (because then he'd have to offend his Democrat friends in the Senate). He did not explain why Obama is wrong on taxation and federalizing health care. He almost seemed to hold back and refraining from drawing clear distinctions there. He needs to clean that up and get on point.

On the foreign policy side he did better than Obama and showed he has a much better command of the issues and the players. Obama found himself agreeing with McCain a number of times, and he got flustered on some of the foreign policy questions. I especially thought it funny how BHO at multiple points kept harping on the past with the invasion of Iraq rather than the future of our presence there. However, Obama was able to keep it close enough for him to look weaker but respectable on foreign policy in the eyes of the average voter. McCain looked far more presidential, while BHO came off as smug and disrespectful. On the other hand, Obama came off more smoothly (despite the stuttering) and appeared more connected with voters. The debate went to McCain but not by a decisive margin, and he should work hard to do better in the next ones.

[Person Man]

Public poll.

Not voting.

Would be interesting to see how many more people would vote if this were a private poll.

[Kerrigan]

McCain had Obama on the defensive for basically the entire debate. McCain simply has more experience and knowledge in the area of foreign affairs.

Obama, despite being at a disadvantage, held is own better than I thought he would. He knew when to concede points, and when to stick to his guns. I felt that he stuttered too much, but being able to hold his own on this issue was impressive.

So just as with everything else in this race, this debate was basically tied in my view.