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US finally paying attention to World Cup? (Page 4)
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Jawbone54
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Jul 3, 2010, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
This makes no sense.

I've done the exact same thing as Suarez before - the goalie's down and out, it's a sure goal, so you play goalie yourself and let them try a penalty kick. The odds are still massively with them, but at least it's not a sure goal. (Having said that he probably should've just taken it off the face, but whatever.)

It's the same thing in hockey with "covering the puck in the crease" or basketball with "hard fouls." Those are penalized actions, but sometimes you have to do them and put the onus back on the other team.

This statement makes no sense when you harken back to the wonderful basketball days of yore in the previous post. 80s basketball was all about abusing the rules as much as possible. The reason we have a ticky-tack foul regime today is because of the backlash from that era.
Suarez' move makes tactical sense, and I understand completely why he did it, but the comparison to hard fouls in basketball doesn't quite hold up; hard fouls in basketball are an essential and common part of the game. Hard fouls have their place (but step over the line when you foul someone hard enough to injure them). Intentional handballs in soccer are deemed unethical by almost anyone except the player/team benefiting from them. They're not part of soccer's culture, except in cases where they're abused (Maradona, Henry, and now Suarez).

80s basketball was definitely about hard fouls and (sometimes) fights, but so is hockey. Soccer is not. The key issue is the accepted culture of a sport. Also, how were they "bending the rules" so much in the 80s? With hard fouls? I'd say the rules are bent more often today, with traveling and carrying becoming an accepted part of the game.

Hahaha... well there were a few legitimate fouls in there(somewhere) - he was also getting hacked on almost every possession. That's his game though - he's sort of like a Sean Avery type, except with talent to match. And it's not like you can't say Robinho was any less annoying, with his outrageous antics after every legitimate foul call....

Either way, fantastic game! I managed to catch most of it but had to run to court with about 7 minutes left and Brazil pressing hard. Ended up sneaking some texts to get the final score....
Oh, no doubt about Robinho. Every time he yelled like a maniac, I was hoping for a yellow card. I like watching Brazil, but not Dunga's Brazil. The Netherlands are playing a much more entertaining brand of soccer these days. Another note about Robben: even Gullit laughed about how much he flopped in the post-game analysis. I like Robben, and love the Dutch, but he was taking it a little too far. Definitely got into the Brazilians' heads though.

I can't wait for the Germany/Spain semifinal, and really can't wait for the Dutch to hammer Uruguay.
     
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Jul 3, 2010, 04:38 PM
 
Germany v Argentina was such a disappointing game to watch. I kind of despise Germany's tactics, but they will probably win this world cup with them.

Spain v Paraguay was far more entertaining. The ref was far too involved for my liking, but luckily he didn't actually decide the game. Good stuff, looking forward to the last 4 games of the cup.
     
Jawbone54
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Jul 3, 2010, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
That handball should have lost them the game. I really see it as abuse of the rules.
Fixed.
     
Jawbone54
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Jul 3, 2010, 04:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Spain v Paraguay was far more entertaining. The ref was far too involved for my liking, but luckily he didn't actually decide the game. Good stuff, looking forward to the last 4 games of the cup.
I think that's part of the problem: this World Cup is probably going to go down for how influential referees have been throughout rather than the quality of play. So many controversial decisions...
     
boy8cookie
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Jul 3, 2010, 04:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Fixed.
     
Sealobo
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Jul 3, 2010, 04:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
I kind of despise Germany's tactics, but they will probably win this world cup with them.
What's wrong with their tactics? Solid defense with counter-attack... what's not to like?
     
Jawbone54
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Jul 3, 2010, 05:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 3, 2010, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by boy8cookie View Post
Germany v Argentina was such a disappointing game to watch. I kind of despise Germany's tactics, but they will probably win this world cup with them.

Spain v Paraguay was far more entertaining. The ref was far too involved for my liking, but luckily he didn't actually decide the game. Good stuff, looking forward to the last 4 games of the cup.

Have we actually watched the same two games? Spain vs. Paraguay was so boring, one missed pass after another from both teams. It was more exciting than the game Germany vs. Argentina only in the sense that it wasn't so clear-cut as to who will win the game. I didn't mind the refs today, no major eff ups and they controlled the game quite well. On one occasion, the ref could have repeated one of Paraguay's penalty shots, though.

Regarding Germany's tactics, I don't get what you mean. I think they're playing beautiful, almost Brazilian soccer. Triple passes, fast-paced, beautiful goals. The players are not whiny, foul all the time or pretend they are fouled. What else do you want from a team?
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Spheric Harlot
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Jul 3, 2010, 06:31 PM
 
^ Indeed.

Germany - Argentina wasn't as beautifully precise and well-oiled as Germany - England, but then, Argentina put up a hell of a fight.

Jogi Löw was criticized heavily leading up to the World Cup for his choice of "inferior" players, but it's become obvious that he was building a real team, rather than a collection of egos.
     
OreoCookie
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Jul 3, 2010, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
^ Indeed.

Germany - Argentina wasn't as beautifully precise and well-oiled as Germany - England, but then, Argentina put up a hell of a fight.
Yeah, Argentina could have equalized in the first half and they had some good shots at our goal in the second half. This wasn't North Korea we were playing against.

If Spain plays like this on Wednesday, I think we have a good chance to win deservedly. To be honest, I was much more concerned about the Argentinians than the Spanish. But we shouldn't underestimate Spain … 
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Jawbone54
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Jul 3, 2010, 07:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Regarding Germany's tactics, I don't get what you mean. I think they're playing beautiful, almost Brazilian soccer. Triple passes, fast-paced, beautiful goals. The players are not whiny, foul all the time or pretend they are fouled. What else do you want from a team?


Bingo. I'm really hoping for a Netherlands/Germany final, and it looks like that's what we'll wind up seeing.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jul 4, 2010, 10:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Jawbone54 View Post
Suarez' move makes tactical sense, and I understand completely why he did it, but the comparison to hard fouls in basketball doesn't quite hold up; hard fouls in basketball are an essential and common part of the game. Hard fouls have their place (but step over the line when you foul someone hard enough to injure them). Intentional handballs in soccer are deemed unethical by almost anyone except the player/team benefiting from them. They're not part of soccer's culture, except in cases where they're abused (Maradona, Henry, and now Suarez).
Yeah, sorry, I meant to say "flagrant foul". But either way the analogy is a poor one, because after thinking about it I think basketball flagrant fouls and/or hockey "dangerous hits" are frowned up more for their physical contact and danger to the (innocent?) player, rather than the notion of "gentlemanliness."

But I guess I just disagree with your assessment of soccer's culture. Some aspects of sportsmanship still do remain - giving the ball back despite an advantage caused by an injury to the other team for example - but I think the notion that soccer is somehow a self-reporting system like golf is sadly outdated. If that was the case players would be able to jump for a corner kick without having their jerseys pulled 98% of the time. In fact soccer is full of players doing "little things" to cheat. The fact that it doesn't have the physical contact element of other North American sports doesn't mean it's somehow far more gentlemanly.

Case in point is intentional handballs when letting the ball go through would result in a run for the other team. Yellow cards have been given for that play several times this WC in the matches I've managed to see. But you'll never find a player who would say "they should have let that ball get past them and give the other team an opportunity" - you take the yellow and the free kick in that situation.

It's not much different here, except that it was a sure goal for Ghana. Might not be the gentlemanly thing to do, but I would bet my next paycheck that any other player for any other team in the same situation would have done the same thing.

Of course, I 100% supported Zidane too, so....

greg
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turtle777
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Jul 11, 2010, 09:18 PM
 
Wow, the referee in the Final was a complete ****tard. What a moron, he completely screwed up the game. With a ref like that, you might as well decide the champion with a coin toss.

The bad refereeing in this world cup stands out. Unfeckingbelievable.
If the FIFA doesn't get their act together, I might just not watch the next world cup altogether.

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Jul 11, 2010, 09:20 PM
 
Yep, that game is bound to have reminded Americans why we weren't paying attention to soccer. Excruciating.

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stevesnj
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Jul 12, 2010, 12:01 AM
 
Still more exciting than Baseball
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angelmb
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Jul 12, 2010, 06:24 AM
 
Blame the Dutch team. The wrecked the whole face of the game.

Hurrah for Spain soccer team. And hurrah for Paul, the Octopus, eight picks, eight correct.
     
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Jul 12, 2010, 07:05 AM
 
I think the ref did a decent job. His one big mistake was that last corner that the Netherlands didn't get. Spain has been diving all over the place for the entire tournament, and that finally caught up with them with the ref taking his time to start handing out yellows. By the end of the game, he was faster with the yellow cards (the last one was terrible, the dutch guy never even touched the diving Spaniard). Playing hard but fair is not against the rules - I'm more annoyed with the diving, and the few nasty things (that kick in the chest on Alonso) that should have given reds.

The Netherlands did what noone else managed - they broke the Spanish game. Spain won this game for one reason only: Iker Casillias. His excellent goaltending saved Spain before the Dutch finally tired and slowed down their defense. By the time that the game was in overtime, Spain was the better team, but remember that the Netherlands were 4 minutes from a penalty shootout.
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badidea
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Jul 12, 2010, 10:26 AM
 
^what he said!
Nigel de Jong should have gotten a red card but Iniesta as well (for his revenge foul and all his diving)!
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Jul 12, 2010, 12:49 PM
 
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Jul 12, 2010, 12:56 PM
 
     
boy8cookie
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Jul 12, 2010, 05:37 PM
 
So, who won?
     
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Jul 12, 2010, 07:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb View Post
Blame the Dutch team. The wrecked the whole face of the game.

Hurrah for Spain soccer team. And hurrah for Paul, the Octopus, eight picks, eight correct.
How 'bout that octopus? The question arises though, who figured out he had this "gift," and how?

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Jul 13, 2010, 08:01 AM
 
That's selective reporting for you. I'm sure there are 10 other zoo animals doing the same thing and failing miserably.
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Jul 13, 2010, 10:53 AM
 
We should have nicked the cup before the match when they were playing the spanish national anthem.
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stevesnj
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Jul 13, 2010, 09:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by PB2K View Post
We should have nicked the cup before the match when they were playing the spanish national anthem.
Seems like your only chance to ever get the cup
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