[Cipher13]

Ok, I've been wondering... how cool does the PPC750CX in iMacs run?
I mean they're pretty cool I know, but how cool?

Now, the iMac has adopted a fanless design cooled by convection currents.

Now, more specifically, how hot does the PPC750CX run in comparison to the PPC7410?

Is the 7410 cool enough to be put in an iMac without a fan? Even if a metal skeleton was required, as long as it could be hid around the bast of an iMac, then its ok.

The reason I ask is if the iMac is to move to a G4, then it must be a G4 that doesn't need fans - now in that case, it needs a large heatsink. Along the lines of an internal frame, like the Ti. Thats not really an option.

I'm just wondering if Apple has cornered itself with the fanless, crystal clear design of the iMac?

People won't accept any new iMac that has a fan, nor one that has a skeleton, unless it is VERY well designed, so as not to be surpassed aesthetically by the current iMacs.

Now if they could get an even cooler 7410... or if the 7410 is already cool enough... it'd be ok.

But as it is, though the 7410 works in a laptop - its at the expense of a design that makes the entire computer a heatsink, and I know from experience they can get quite hot...

So... whats everyones take on it?

[fatblackcat]

I think Apple's best bet is to just use the Cube for the next gen iMac. They are rumoured (Macuser UK, CNET) to have ditched CRT displays, which means a change in the iMac's form factor anyway (if it's true), and the Cube is ready and waiting as the perfect replacement. Steve'll want his baby to be redeemed and I think if it was cheeper we'd all have one. The cube is fanless- problem solved...

chris

[bradoesch]

Just another thought...how much heat does the CRT throw off? If they switch to LCD for the iMacs (which isn't likly, IMHO, but it'd be nice), then perhaps the extra heat from the G4 processor would replace the heat lost from the CRT.
It'd sure be nice to see G4s in the iMacs, then even more software would get AltiVec'ed, since (most?) of what Apple ships is iMacs (I'd imagine).

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Why 1984, won't be
like "1984"

[BRussell]

Heat shouldn't be a problem. My problem is Mhz - the current iMac is at 600, and the fastest 7410 is currently at 500, with a max of 600 in the future. So they wouldn't gain anything in future Mhz by moving to the 7410. In fact, they'd lose, because the G3 will go beyond the G4 7410. I think they'll wait until the next low-power G4 comes out.

I do hate the fanless designs they use - it limits them in upgrading the chips in their own computers, and it prevents the user from putting in graphics cards, processor upgrades, etc.

But SJ has a thing about fanless designs. Do people really care about that? It's kinda nice to have a quiet computer, but is it worth the trade-off? I don't think so.

[GraphiteBoi]

"Do people really care about that? It's kinda nice to have a quiet computer, but is it worth the trade-off? I don't think so."

I totally agree with you B Russell, however there is some logic behind it. A lot of the people that buy the iMac don't even concern themselves with the specs. They see a cool looking computer, that a lot of people love, and IT'S QUIET! I agree that for Apple to get the most into the Imac they have to put a fan in there, but this is the consumer level product. That is why they need a fan in the tower, those have to have the most power. I don't think we will be seeing a fan in the iMac for a long time.

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i Think, therefore iMac.

[Treebeard]

Originally posted by bradoesch:
Just another thought...how much heat does the CRT throw off? If they switch to LCD for the iMacs (which isn't likly, IMHO, but it'd be nice), then perhaps the extra heat from the G4 processor would replace the heat lost from the CRT.
It'd sure be nice to see G4s in the iMacs, then even more software would get AltiVec'ed, since (most?) of what Apple ships is iMacs (I'd imagine).

You're thinking like a normal person, not like an engineer.

If the CRT were cooler, the iMac would overheat. Yes, you heard me right. If the CRT were cooler, the iMac would overheat.

See, the iMac's G3 is below the CRT tube, which gets very very hot. The air around the CRT rises and escapes through the top vent holes. To fill the vaccuum, cool air rushes in from the bottom and over the G3, thus cooling it. A truly beautiful engineering design.

That said, I don't think we'll have to worry. We're moving to 17" displays, not LCDs. LCDs may come next year (Fall 2002) when prices are low enough. But even so, the 7450s still generally run too hot to be cooled by convection. New iMac will be 450 and 550 7410s, and 650 7450 (downclocked 667--runs quite cool). GeForce2MX is correct.

Faster G3s will be left for iBook.

Keep your eyes peeled during NECC (hopefully shipping by MWNY).


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Hoom hom hmmmmmmmmmmm...

[lee vieira]

Originally posted by BRussell:
Heat shouldn't be a problem. My problem is Mhz - the current iMac is at 600, and the fastest 7410 is currently at 500, with a max of 600 in the future. So they wouldn't gain anything in future Mhz by moving to the 7410. In fact, they'd lose, because the G3 will go beyond the G4 7410. I think they'll wait until the next low-power G4 comes out.

I do hate the fanless designs they use - it limits them in upgrading the chips in their own computers, and it prevents the user from putting in graphics cards, processor upgrades, etc.

But SJ has a thing about fanless designs. Do people really care about that? It's kinda nice to have a quiet computer, but is it worth the trade-off? I don't think so.

Most of what you say is correct, but just to note: The fastest current 7410 is 550 MHz, not 500. It is used as a 533 in the tower line.

Also, I like quiet, fanless computers

--lee

[fatblackcat]

do you guys think that they'll put a 17" display in the current iMac form factor (but enlarged to cope with it)? Can you imagine how cumbersome that'd be? I think that's why they stuck with the 15" for so long- 17"'d mean a complete redesign. It'd be to heavy for most to lug around with the ease of the current iMac, and I don't think that the handle, as it is now, would be able to cope with the extra weight...

The iMac design is old now- in need for the change- and if you look at the design trend in the more recent models I think it's clear that there'll be a change. I can't see Apple replacing the classic design of the iMac with something any less elegant than the cube, and I can't see a CRT display fitting particularly well with something like the cube.

But you're dead right about the price. How on earth they'll pull that off I don't know. Maybe they just wont.

chris

[PeteL999]

I think apple should ditch the cube (steve may a hard time doing it but it must be done) and then completely redesign the iMac and smack a G4 in it. With an LCD instead of a CRT. Would be too much of a problem to make a 17 " LCD or would Apple stay with the 15" design

[pliny]

my bet for imac2 is a cube-like imac with a 17" flat panel using a g3 chip @ baseline 500 mhz. maybe going flat panel is enough of a splash to drown out a bit the mhz.

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"i look in your general direction"

[Karnac T. Magnificent]

I highly doubt Apple will put G4's in consumer machines until the pro machines get G5's. THINK about this.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Karnac T. Magnificent:
I highly doubt Apple will put G4's in consumer machines until the pro machines get G5's. THINK about this.

You mean just to separate the machines for marketing purposes? What about the iMac, which was introduced with a G3 at the same time the PowerMacs had G3s? Or the iBook which had a G3 when the PowerBook had a G3.

No, they use other means of reducing costs and separating machines than just the chip.

[Macintosh]

A bigger screen and slightly slimmer iMac is all that's needed.

"Do people really care about that? It's kinda nice to have a quiet computer, but is it worth the trade-off? I don't think so."

The thing with the iMac is that it's in your face all the time. I have a 800Mhz Dell at work which is noisy as hell, but it hides under the desk so it's not too much of a problem. G4 tower owners also won't care because they can stick it far away from their ears.

My rev. A iMac was a pain the neck because the fan was right in front of me. I traded it in as soon as the fanless iMacs came out and I still hate the noise the hard drive makes. So long as they pursue the all in one box, on-your-desk design, they have to keep the iMac as quiet as possible.

[mdn125]

Having a G3 processor in the iMac is in my opinion no problem,, Comparing to the "Wintel" platform Intel has the Celeron processor, the Pentium III and Pentium 4, which spans the low level consumer market, to the high end performance. AMD has the new Athlon and the Duron the consumer, and performance market... Point being using a G3 in a consumer oriented computer is perfectly fine..

The speed of the processor is fine 600 MHz, a 128mb ram is normal, and a 40GB hard drive is above normal, the 16mb video card is also perfectly fine... The CD-RW is a great idea, however, a combo drive like the new iBook would be better... Having to usb and firewire ports, and ethernet,, is a step above other consumer oriented computers in the same price range, and also the wire-less ready is something no one else does either....

The only problem with the iMac that i can see is the display... that needs to be updated some how... better resolution is most likely,, possibly using a flat screen (not to be mistaken with flat pannel), going wide screen like the TiBook is possible,, that would be different, something no other computer companies do... Increasing the size to a 17in would be ideal,, but unlikely,, it would be nice because most other companies no longer use 15in crt monitors, they've all gone to 17in... maybe a 17in monitor in wide screen format,, that'd be different,, a complete form factor update,,...