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goMac · May 12, 2006, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Another red steel review. Unfortunately the controls are no good:

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/707/707908p1.html

Does Sony install blinders on all their fanboys?

"Before we send fans scrambling to the boards in a fury of hatred or depression, we have to get a few things straight. Red Steel still has the potential to be one of the most desirable launch games on the Wii, and we still expect great things from the team working on it. It just needs some serious control work."

In other words, there is still work to be done on an incomplete game. IGN isn't surprised. Whould've thunk it?

meelk · May 12, 2006, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

To be honest im shocked at the look & feel reviews of Red Steel myself. it looks great in those GI scans and the controls seemed promicing. but i mean really....the visuals look subpar to GCN games and the stuff ive been hearing about the controls is just rather disappointing since they have been working on it for about a year now. i'd understand if the just the visuals were lacking since it's standard stuff to just bump the graphics up, but the controls should have been near perfected for the demos at E3.

tony hawk is worse. talk about an F quality development team. It only takes one look at zelda, which was originally a gamecube game (and still is) to know the system is capable of so much more.

goMac · May 12, 2006, 12:30 AM

Here is a video of the line of people waiting to play.... with Nintendo's Wii's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGlvLQzvJNA

greenamp · May 12, 2006, 12:47 AM

I know I sound dumb here with all you console dorks

, but how do you pronounce "Wii?"
Just like "we?" Or "why?"

meelk · May 12, 2006, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by greenamp

I know I sound dumb here with all you console dorks

, but how do you pronounce "Wii?"
Just like "we?" Or "why?"

we

zro · May 12, 2006, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Ummm..... now, i dont know thw whole story on HD, cause i dont spend that much time in front of a TV. but i was looking at screenshots on IGN of Wii games....andZelda was at least 720 pixels vertically, and Red Steel was 768 vertically. doesnt that qualify as HD ?

Screens like those were taken from dev kits which are capable of a higher resolution.

I was totally excited for the new control until I read a couple of negative impressions. Mostly the ones confirming (or claiming) that the sensor works on IR. That's giving me a lot of pause. All this time I was under the impression it was some form of radio telemetry that tracked the controllers every move and angle in 3D space. IR can't do that. Not on it's own, at least. And not at all once the controllers emitter leaves the sensors line of sight.

Hopefully the concerns raised in certain games can be ironed out in software. A gesture based control scheme that drops it's calibration and becomes unresponsive on gestures beyond a certain point isn't going to work well because it's not going to wok all the time.

Still several months until it's released. More in depth impressions on more complete software will come by then. Hopefully my concerns so far will be put to rest.

torsoboy · May 12, 2006, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Here is a video of the line of people waiting to play.... with Nintendo's Wii's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGlvLQzvJNA

All I can say is WOW. Do the people at the end of the line think they will get a chance to play?? That is just crazy.

greenamp · May 12, 2006, 03:40 AM

Dunno about the IR thing, but I'm really sold on the Wii controller. When you think about it, it's very close in feel to a mouse+keyboard setup with PC games (the wand and joystick together I mean).

I think PC gamers will realize the similarities in ergonomics and adapt very very quickly.

meelk · 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by zro

Mostly the ones confirming (or claiming) that the sensor works on IR. That's giving me a lot of pause. All this time I was under the impression it was some form of radio telemetry that tracked the controllers every move and angle in 3D space.

it is NOT IR. Nintendo knows IR doesnt work. Whoever you got that crap from straight up lied. Its a wireless radio signal, any major gaming site will easily confirm this and its reflected on Nintendos own Wii site.

Consider the stupidity of Nintendo moving BACKWARDS from the joy of the wavebird to ir of all things, you should be ashamed.

zro · 03:52 AM

I just so happen to have gotten that crap from the internet, thank you very much!

I'm not convinced of it, just taken back by the possibility.

Whoa! This isn't the standard input signal were talking about, but tracking of movement. I feel no shame.

meelk · May 12, 2006, 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by zro

I just so happen to have gotten that crap from the internet, thank you very much!

I'm not convinced of it, just taken back by the possibility.

Whoa! This isn't the standard input signal were talking about, but tracking of movement. I feel no shame.

Its bluetooth:

Controls: Intuitive control for anyone using the physical motion of the main Wii Remote, which resembles a television remote control. Up to four Wii Remotes can be connected at once using wireless Bluetooth technology. The wireless signal can be detected within 10 meters of the console. Both the Wii Remote and Nunchuk controllers include a three-axis motion sensor. The Wii Remote also includes a speaker, rumble feature and expansion port, and can be used as a pointer within 5 meters of the screen. The Wii Remote has a power switch, plus pad, A, B, Minus, Home, 1 and 2 buttons. The Nunchuk controller includes an analog control stick and C and Z buttons.

http://wii.nintendo.com/hardware.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote#_note-hard_inf

I've heard its still a bit sensitive. Its my opinion the people having problems arent "going out of range" they are probably moving too fast, not making distinct enough movements, etc. Nintendo still has months of tweaking they can do.

zro · May 12, 2006, 04:12 AM

It uses Bluetooth to send button and tilt commands to the console. No where does it say it's using Bluetooth telemetry to track the controllers position. I've yet to see it definitively stated what technology is being used to track the controller.

So what's the IR emitter doing on the tip of the controller when an IR receiver isn't evident on the console?

This bit from Nintendo's site is most ambiguous.

The Wii Remote also includes a speaker, rumble feature and expansion port, and can be used as a pointer within 5 meters of the screen.

torsoboy · May 12, 2006, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by meelk

I've heard its still a bit sensitive. Its my opinion the people having problems arent "going out of range" they are probably moving too fast, not making distinct enough movements, etc. Nintendo still has months of tweaking they can do.

Nintendo's job was to make it as sensitive as possible... the game developers' job it to program their games to control what that sensitivity means to the game. Some games will want all the sensitivity that is possible, and some will tone down the reaction to the sensitivity. Like someone else has said (maybe on another board), oversensitivity can be corrected and managed by the software but undersensitivity cannot be.

meelk · 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by zro

It uses Bluetooth to send button and tilt commands to the console. No where does it say it's using Bluetooth telemetry to track the controllers position.

Sorry to let you know this, but things like swinging virtual swords/tennis rackets are impossible with IR. believe whatever you want, or just call Nintendo and find out.

If you absolutely MUST have IR in there, then bluetooth does positional while ir would send button presses. That would limit IR to something ir can actually do without limiting controller functionality.

zro · May 12, 2006, 10:06 AM

Wow...

Doubtful.

Dark Helmet · May 12, 2006, 10:30 AM

Great. The Wii online will use those stupid name codes:

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/e30...des-173327.php

Dark Helmet · May 12, 2006, 11:14 AM

Another "Meh" impression of the Wii's controls:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/12/wi...e3-experience/

So far none of the reviews of the controller or games have been glowing. In fact there have been much more positive reviews of the games for the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Everyone is just hopeful at this point but not that excited or blown away.

No you cannot judge how cool it is just by watching videos.

goMac · May 12, 2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Another "Meh" impression of the Wii's controls:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/12/wi...e3-experience/

So far none of the reviews of the controller or games have been glowing. In fact there have been much more positive reviews of the games for the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Everyone is just hopeful at this point but not that excited or blown away.

No you cannot judge how cool it is just by watching videos.

: sigh : Don't you ever read the articles you post?

"The Wiimote and nunchaku designs are brilliant, as is the console, which, where necessary, is compatible with the GameCube controller. But the software, roughly six months before launch, is a mixed bag."

Everyone loves the controller, but everyone thinks the software is incomplete. This isn't a surprise.

ort888 · May 12, 2006, 11:22 AM

I have read several glowing reports of the controller.

Dark Helmet · May 12, 2006, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

: sigh : Don't you ever read the articles you post?

"The Wiimote and nunchaku designs are brilliant, as is the console, which, where necessary, is compatible with the GameCube controller. But the software, roughly six months before launch, is a mixed bag."

Everyone loves the controller, but everyone thinks the software is incomplete. This isn't a surprise.

Oh the other side of the fence the PS3 games and 360 games are just as far away but getting better reviews already even though they are just as incomplete.

And from the same story that you skipped over:

"I'm not convinced that, at this stage, the Wiimote and nunchaku add-on are superior to a gamepad. "

Dark Helmet · May 12, 2006, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

I have read several glowing reports of the controller.

Cool, share them.

ort888 · May 12, 2006, 11:43 AM

I've read bad ones as well. The reviews are kinda all over the place. It sounds like most of the problems are related to software problems, and not the system itself. We'll see. I'm still hesitant to buy one.

I want to see reviews of actual finished games, and I want to hear real world impressions from people who have really put this thing through the paces.

Right now, I'm cautiously optimist.

Adam Betts · May 12, 2006, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Another "Meh" impression of the Wii's controls:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/12/wi...e3-experience/

The author seems to be rather immature from what I see in his comment post:

"Sorry guys i just reliazed that im a fag and i dont even know what im talking about and Wii is the best thing to ever happen to gaming. Excuse my post above and consider Wii to be the best thing ever. Thanks guys." -James Ransom-Wiley

Unprofessional =/ I wouldn't want to read his opinion if he can't control himself like that.

goMac · May 12, 2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Oh the other side of the fence the PS3 games and 360 games are just as far away but getting better reviews already even though they are just as incomplete.

And from the same story that you skipped over:

"I'm not convinced that, at this stage, the Wiimote and nunchaku add-on are superior to a gamepad. "

No, they aren't. I've read reports that almost no one is lining up to see the PS3 games at E3. I've even read reports the the PS3 software is crashing.

It's an entirely new control scheme. I don't get why you think anyone would be surprised they're still working out kinks.

sabrejim · May 12, 2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by ink

One thing that really bugs me about the Wii is that it only supports Dolby Digital. It was embarassing that GCN could only do DD in 2001. My PS2 did full 5.1 with the digital-out in 2000. I guess paying royalties to Dolby is cheaper than putting a modern audio chip in.

I just noticed that XBox 360 still supports RF!

Do people still use that?!?

The cube didn't support digital sound at all. Dolby Digital can be up to 5.1. The PS2 didn't have many DD5.1 games so it was a wash. The XBOX was the only last gen system to reliably have 5.1 games.

baw · May 12, 2006, 02:39 PM

Nintendo's Wii steals show at expo
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsar...src=rss&rpc=22

The wait to try out the Wii at E3 pushed past four hours on Thursday afternoon, while the wait for hands-on time with Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 was barely 30 minutes

Nintendo FTW!

Dark Helmet · May 12, 2006, 02:42 PM

Still waiting for those "blown away by a revolutionary product" reviews....

Chuckit · May 12, 2006, 02:55 PM

Are you waiting for similar reviews of everything else on the face of the planet?

Dark Helmet · May 12, 2006, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Are you waiting for similar reviews of everything else on the face of the planet?

Before I purchase a new product I always always do plenty of research and read reviews.

So is asking for a couple reviews that the revolution actually is a BETTER way to play games over DIFFERENT. Is that really so much to ask?

olePigeon · May 12, 2006, 03:33 PM

I think Nintendo's gonna be the winner in this race. Microsoft and Sony are too busy fighting over who has more while Nintendo's going to concentrate on who's having the most fun.

Chuckit · May 12, 2006, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Before I purchase a new product I always always do plenty of research and read reviews.

So is asking for a couple reviews that the revolution actually is a BETTER way to play games over DIFFERENT. Is that really so much to ask?

You're looking for a "blown away by a revolutionary product review," not just a "Hey, this is generally a good system with some flaws" review. In my 20 years of playing video games, I don't recall ever having seen a glowing, universally positive review of a new system that wasn't an obvious shill. They always go, "Here's what's different, here's what's good, here's what's bad." The system I had the most fun with was the SNES, and early on people blasted it for the awful slowdown in games like Gradius 3, which was a valid complaint. In the long run, though, it was a good system with great games.

goMac · May 12, 2006, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Still waiting for those "blown away by a revolutionary product" reviews....

What news sites do you go to where you don't see these reviews? sonyfanboysrus.com? Worstwiireviews.com?

And the best part is all of the "bad" reviews you've posted so far have said the controller is excellent and definitely the next thing. They just state the software is buggy.

The PS3 has been crashing at E3. You don't see any "Nintendo fanboys" ranting about the PS3 being a crashing piece of junk. You're the only one rabidly posting usually upbeat reviews which you snip the negative sessions out of. It's running incomplete software. Thank you. We get it. We aren't shocked.

goMac · May 12, 2006, 04:57 PM

"Miyamoto hopes to further encourage this expansion of the consumer audience by offering a personal attachment to the new controller. Effectively, each person in the household could have their own controller, which is tied to their own gaming preferences and will ensure that the Wii automatically customises the look or settings of various games, depending on which controller is used to switch the machine on or join a new game."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=16994

ink · May 12, 2006, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Another "Meh" impression of the Wii's controls:

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/12/wi...e3-experience/

Did you even read that article?

He said that the nunchuck controller isn't the best for every game...

I hardly see that as a "Meh" review. Talk to the folks who forked over $200 to play that Robot sim with mecha controls on the X-Box; just because it doesn't work with Halo doesn't mean that it's "Meh". Ditto for flightsim controls, or even Kaboom! paddles on the 2600.

ink · May 12, 2006, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I think Nintendo's gonna be the winner in this race. Microsoft and Sony are too busy fighting over who has more while Nintendo's going to concentrate on who's having the most fun.

No... Microsoft is comfortable losing another Billion dollars on 360 (for ... some reason), while Sony is pinning their entire corporation on the PS3. Guess who wins that battle.

Hal06 · May 12, 2006, 05:21 PM

Maybe the DS got similar reviews some time ago, but the fact remains, people love it.

Japan, last week, units sold:

HARDWARE:
01 DSLite 161,010
02 PSP 37,946

SOFTWARE:
01 NDS Tetris DS - 160,148 [378,247]
02 NDS Brain Age 2 - 112,392 [2,164,256]
03 PS2 Winning Eleven 10 - 100,860 [561,409]
04 NDS Brain Age - 84,075 [2,136,857]
05 NDS Animal Crossing - 83,564 [2,645,481]
06 NDS Pokemon Ranger - 69,415 [496,834]
07 NDS English Training - 59,614 [998,343]
08 NDS Mario Kart DS - 37,037 [1,353,596]
09 GBA Mother 3 - 34,591 [291,428]
10 PS2 Dragon Quest Youth Yangus & Fushi no Dungeon - 33,279 [215,237]

Yeah, Nintendo got a Wiineer there.

ort888 · May 12, 2006, 05:24 PM

The DS had a great e3.

Yoshi's Island 2? Are freaking kidding me? How much better can it get.

goMac · May 12, 2006, 07:32 PM

"CVG: What are your impressions of Nintendo Wii and how did Snake appear in Smash Brothers?

Kojima: I’ve played Tennis, Zelda and Mario on Wii. I find Tennis very interesting. I played the early version but the E3 version is far more advanced. As a game designer, I’m very interested in creating something for the Wii. I’d like to run away from MGS 4 creation and create something for the Wii but unfortunately, I don’t have anything that I can announce at the moment. I have lots of ideas for Wii but I have a heavy schedule with MGS 4 and Metal Gear Online. Concerning Snake’s appearance on Wii in Smash Brothers, I’m friends with the designer of the game and I thought it would be nice if you could play as Snake - when I heard about the new game last year, I contacted the designer and we started working together."

http://www.nwiizone.com/nintendo-wii...-work-for-wii/

Hal06 · May 13, 2006, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Kojima: As a game designer, I’m very interested in creating something for the Wii. I have lots of ideas for Wii

That is all what really matters, a good game designer is going to find new ways to play, an average game designer is going to be happy giving the game a prettier face… it is like real life, gimme a smart human instead a cute face anyday.

angelmb · May 15, 2006, 01:39 PM

haha, this is so funny

Dakar · May 15, 2006, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Inside Man

Maybe the DS got similar reviews some time ago, but the fact remains, people love it.

Japan, last week, units sold:

HARDWARE:
01 DSLite 161,010
02 PSP 37,946

SOFTWARE:
01 NDS Tetris DS - 160,148 [378,247]
02 NDS Brain Age 2 - 112,392 [2,164,256]
03 PS2 Winning Eleven 10 - 100,860 [561,409]
04 NDS Brain Age - 84,075 [2,136,857]
05 NDS Animal Crossing - 83,564 [2,645,481]
06 NDS Pokemon Ranger - 69,415 [496,834]
07 NDS English Training - 59,614 [998,343]
08 NDS Mario Kart DS - 37,037 [1,353,596]
09 GBA Mother 3 - 34,591 [291,428]
10 PS2 Dragon Quest Youth Yangus & Fushi no Dungeon - 33,279 [215,237]

Yeah, Nintendo got a Wiineer there.

What about US?

Millennium · May 15, 2006, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Did you even read that article?

He said that the nunchuck controller isn't the best for every game...

I hardly see that as a "Meh" review.

No, but by SWG's standards something isn't "innovative" unless either it gets unanimous and glowing support from the readerbase, or it renders above some percentage more polygons than the previous generation.

angelmb · May 17, 2006, 04:36 AM

Do you like my Mac OS X boot image?

Adam Betts · May 17, 2006, 12:45 PM

Take a look at 20 min Metroid Prime 3 demo

http://media.revolution.ign.com/medi...47/vids_1.html
E3 2006 Demo (HD)

My opinion about poor graphics changed after viewing this video. I'm pretty happy with current graphics especially smokes, particles and lighting. They're really, really good.

My jaw dropped the entire video. Amazing control, mind-blowing boss fighting, etc.

Millennium · May 17, 2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by zro

So what's the IR emitter doing on the tip of the controller when an IR receiver isn't evident on the console?

My guess is that it's not an IR emitter at all. More likely, it's a light sensor akin to the Zapper of the NES days and Super Scope of the SNES days. Whether or not it works exactly the same way is difficult to say, but there definitely needs to be some kind of sensor if these games are going to work with the Virtual Console.

As for how the Wiimote tracks its position, there hasn't been anything definitive, as you say, but it's known that it has something to do with the "sensor bar". A GPS receiver takes this ID data and the positions of the satellites, and uses triangulation to determine its own location. My guess is that the Wiimote works similarly, and the "sensor bar" doesn't actually have any sensors at all: it's a set of radio beacons which the Wiimote uses to determine its position.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 17, 2006, 04:15 PM

"The last thing I want to do is get in between Nintendo®'s fans and their new console, I can see the death threats already. But after playing the new controller, it was apparent very quickly that something was not quite right. It was when I stepped up to play Red Steel and the slightest left or right movement would make the crosshair jump all the way to the edge of the screen. I felt like an idiot for a moment as the guys peering over my shoulder watched me looking around erratically. But then a Nintendo® rep came to my rescue and told me to take 2 steps back and aim the controller at the sensor bar stuck to the bottom of the TV set...whoah!... that's better. Immediately I was in control and taking down thugs with shotgun shots in their proximity. I mean it was working, but it wasn't like I expected it to feel (like a 3D air mouse). That's when I realized I had been duped.

"What I don't like is that the way the Wii controller works depends a lot on how close you are to your TV. If you are five feet away it feels one way. If you are 10 feet away, it feels completely different." - Will Wright

http://www.xgaming.com/newsletter/Wii%20Dupe.shtml

Let me guess, you all know better than him even though you have never touched it?

How is aiming at a light strip under your TV anything like it should be?

Chuckit · May 17, 2006, 04:35 PM

I don't claim to know better than him. I do, however, claim that his opinion is not the final word, and a lot of people seem to be liking Wii.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 17, 2006, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I don't claim to know better than him. I do, however, claim that his opinion is not the final word, and a lot of people seem to be liking Wii.

People also loved the gamecube and virtual boy when it was first shown.

Should we recap the hype at the GameCube announcement? "nintendo is concentrating on games, not DVD playback. They have the most powerful system out of all 3".

Chuckit · May 17, 2006, 04:42 PM

Also, now that I've read the whole thing, he also seems to believe the controller isn't finished yet and will probably be better at release. So even he doesn't think his word is definitive.

ort888 · May 17, 2006, 04:51 PM

If the controller does anything other then work 100% perfectly Nintendo is screwed.

I'm getting a lot of mixed reports on the Wii. Some love it and others aren't impressed. It sounds like a lot of the control problems are software and programing problems, since some games seem to work better then others. Red Steel has been pretty much universally panned as being almost impossible to control. So has Zelda. However, other games are supposed to work great. Exitetruck, Wario Ware and Metroid.