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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Why is the US weird about Cuba?

Why is the US weird about Cuba?
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besson3c
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Jan 5, 2010, 11:57 PM
 
What are the arguments on both sides as to why the US seems to have such an odd relationship with Cuba, why Cuban citizens can't travel to the US easily, and stuff like that?

I was just reading about a Cuban pitcher that might sign with the Blue Jays in part because his family would have an easier time traveling there to visit him.

I've never really figured out what the precise relationship between the US and Cuba is, what has changed in recent years, what the arguments are, pressures, etc.
     
Andy8
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Jan 6, 2010, 12:07 AM
 
Because they are not interested in any economic gains that would come from normalising ties with Cuba?
     
SpaceMonkey
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Jan 6, 2010, 12:10 AM
 
We should annex them simply for their baseball talent.

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mduell
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Jan 6, 2010, 01:00 AM
 
Florida is an important state in presidential elections.
     
imitchellg5
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Jan 6, 2010, 01:01 AM
 
We don't like it because it's like right there, but they like to go all Communistical on everyone, which is quite a lot of trouble, really.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 6, 2010, 01:29 AM
 
Didn't the Cuban annex a whole bunch of property held by Americans?
     
SpaceMonkey
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Jan 6, 2010, 01:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Didn't the Cuban annex a whole bunch of property held by Americans?
Yes.

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Wiskedjak
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Jan 6, 2010, 02:02 AM
 
Then, I would say *that's* why the US is weird about Cuba, rather than anything to do with Communism.
     
ghporter
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Jan 6, 2010, 08:25 AM
 
Congress and international policy have long memories. We had supported the Bautista government until it became clear that they were filthy corrupt, then we supported Castro. When it turned out that Castro was more interested in his buddies from Moscow, we cooled to them. Then there was the whole missile thing... Overall, the big problem has been rhetoric on both sides, but the rhetoric has been quite nasty and vile, which also leaves a long-term bad feeling.

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Orion27
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Jan 6, 2010, 09:25 AM
 
The assassination of President Kennedy?
Nuclear missiles aimed at the United States?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 6, 2010, 10:14 AM
 
Because Castro is still alive. It doesn't seem so politically rooted as sort of personal.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Jan 6, 2010, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Congress and international policy have long memories. We had supported the Bautista government until it became clear that they were filthy corrupt, then we supported Castro. When it turned out that Castro was more interested in his buddies from Moscow, we cooled to them. Then there was the whole missile thing... Overall, the big problem has been rhetoric on both sides, but the rhetoric has been quite nasty and vile, which also leaves a long-term bad feeling.
True. But it's still remarkable how different the trajectory of our post-Cold War relationship with Cuba has been from, say, Vietnam.

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nonhuman
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Jan 6, 2010, 10:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
The assassination of President Kennedy?
Nuclear missiles aimed at the United States?
Both more Russian acts than Cuban...
     
ctt1wbw
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Jan 6, 2010, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
We should annex them simply for their baseball talent.
And for the beachfront property values.
     
Orion27
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Jan 6, 2010, 11:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Both more Russian acts than Cuban...
The Kennedy, Mafia, Cuban connection is documented, but of course mostly speculation. The missile sites were not built in a vacuum. I suspect the sanctions are mutually beneficial. Castro's regime continues with minimal interference from the US. We did agree not to invade Cuba after the Russians left. Perhaps that included a cultural invasion as well. I hope Besson3c sees the irony here. We are the bad guys as usual. Normally, it is our culture, capitalist greed, hegemonic designs which are the issue. Even if we choose to ignore you,
there is fault to find.
     
ghporter
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Jan 6, 2010, 10:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
True. But it's still remarkable how different the trajectory of our post-Cold War relationship with Cuba has been from, say, Vietnam.
Vietnam has been open to outside business and has actually courted the US. Cuba? I wouldn't call having their government flat out call our government capitalist pigs (for decades), yet manage to survive on charitable donations being "courted."

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 6, 2010, 11:55 PM
 
For non-Americans, the lack of American targeted tourism in Cuba makes it a desirable vacation destination.
     
Andy8
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Jan 7, 2010, 12:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
For non-Americans, the lack of American targeted tourism in Cuba makes it a desirable vacation destination.
Exactly.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jan 8, 2010, 06:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
For non-Americans, the lack of American targeted tourism in Cuba makes it a desirable vacation destination.
So true.
     
Orion27
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Jan 8, 2010, 09:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
For non-Americans, the lack of American targeted tourism in Cuba makes it a desirable vacation destination.
Here'e a report by Human Rights Watch, you can read it on the beach. Enjoy your suntans.
New Castro, Same Cuba | Human Rights Watch
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 8, 2010, 09:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Here'e a report by Human Rights Watch, you can read it on the beach. Enjoy your suntans.
New Castro, Same Cuba | Human Rights Watch
By that same logic, I shouldn't visit the US because if *it's* human rights violations.
     
Orion27
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Jan 8, 2010, 09:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
By that same logic, I shouldn't visit the US because if *it's* human rights violations.
Care to elaborate? We'll set up a soap box in Times Square. From there you can march to Washington Square and hold a rally.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 8, 2010, 10:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Care to elaborate? We'll set up a soap box in Times Square. From there you can march to Washington Square and hold a rally.
Ah, the duality of the human rights arguments from the Right is always fun to watch.
     
Orion27
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Jan 8, 2010, 10:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Ah, the duality of the human rights arguments from the Right is always fun to watch.
Wow! You're really deep. Enjoy the sun! Just don't get too close the locals.
     
olePigeon
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Jan 8, 2010, 12:47 PM
 
The Bay of Pigs debacle probably has something to do with it.
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you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
olePigeon
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Jan 8, 2010, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
By that same logic, I shouldn't visit the US because if *it's* its human rights violations.
Fixed.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
Zeeb
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Jan 8, 2010, 01:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
By that same logic, I shouldn't visit the US because if *it's* human rights violations.
If we compare the human rights violations between the U.S. and Cuba you'll find Cuba to be much worse. I'm not saying the U.S. is perfect on this issue -- but your comment seems to be based on snobbery.
     
Orion27
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Jan 8, 2010, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
If we compare the human rights violations between the U.S. and Cuba you'll find Cuba to be much worse. I'm not saying the U.S. is perfect on this issue -- but your comment seems to be based on snobbery.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jan 8, 2010, 10:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Fixed.
You fixed my possessive 'it', but you didn't fix my 'if' instead of 'of'.



     
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Jan 12, 2010, 10:42 AM
 
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Orion27
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Jan 12, 2010, 11:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by thunderous_funker View Post
WiKi: ...UFCO had a mixed record on promoting the development of the nations in which it operated. In Central America, the Company built extensive railroads and ports and provided employment and transportation. UFCO also created numerous schools for the people who lived and worked on Company land. On the other hand, it allowed vast tracts of land under its ownership to remain uncultivated and, in Guatemala and elsewhere, it discouraged the government from building highways, which would lessen the profitable transportation monopoly of the railroads under its control.......

Provided jobs and at the same time promoted mass transit and discouraged highway building thus mitigating it's carbon footprint.
     
thunderous_funker
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Jan 12, 2010, 11:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Orion27 View Post
Provided jobs and at the same time promoted mass transit and discouraged highway building thus mitigating it's carbon footprint.
Somewhere a marketing company needs your talents.
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SpaceMonkey
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Jan 12, 2010, 11:15 AM
 


Yeah, okay...

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
   
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