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Internet - Wish broadband didn't happen
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Athens
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Mar 22, 2012, 02:36 PM
 
There are times I really wish Internet didn't exceed the speeds of Dialup. You look at all the industries affected by the internet, the amount of jobs lost. The damage done to socialization. It just seems like in most ways its done more harm then good. The value of world wide communications, a voice to every person is the only reason I didn't wish Internet never happened at all. But that could be done over dialup speeds.

The loss to culture is immense as things become only 1's and 0's. Look at books for example. We can still make use of and read the knowledge in books a 500-1000 years old. Who wants to bet the CD our data is on wont last more then 20 years. When I was a teenager the city was full of bowling places, pool places, skating rinks, theaters and so forth. All that has shrunk as our culture becomes glued to the computer.
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Tiresias
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Mar 22, 2012, 02:40 PM
 
Huh?

But doesn't the Internet make information almost indestructible?

If the Library of Alexandria had been online, for instance...

And, at least where I live, there are still bowling alleys, swimming pool complexes, and skating rinks.

There.

After that memorable counterblast, I am tipsy and ready for bed.

Goodnight everybody!



Tomorrow's Friday.

As you were.
     
Athens  (op)
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Mar 22, 2012, 02:45 PM
 
Electronic data is more vulnerable then people think, so is our society.
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The Final Dakar
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Mar 22, 2012, 03:06 PM
 
     
sek929
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Mar 22, 2012, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post


I think it was all downhill after the wheel was invented, people used to walk more.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 22, 2012, 03:27 PM
 
Electricity ruined our sleep cycles. People used to get a better night's sleep when they couldn't see or do anything in the dark.
     
mduell
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Mar 22, 2012, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
There are times I really wish Internet didn't exceed the speeds of Dialup. You look at all the industries affected by the internet, the amount of jobs lost. The damage done to socialization. It just seems like in most ways its done more harm then good.
Look at all the jobs created. Look at all the leisure time created. High-speed internet is a huge win.

Are you suggesting we should go back to sustenance farming, so everyone can have some work to do (80% of it being agriculture)?
     
SSharon
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Mar 22, 2012, 03:37 PM
 
I thought this thread would be about bloated web pages full of ads instead of lightweight and streamlined pages of days past.

What about the rest of the arguments in favor of the internet? Think of all the trees we save by reading our news online instead of dead tree format.
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The Final Dakar
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Mar 22, 2012, 03:41 PM
 
Anyway, I look forward to the day I can download a car.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Mar 22, 2012, 04:51 PM
 
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Athens  (op)
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Mar 22, 2012, 04:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Electricity ruined our sleep cycles. People used to get a better night's sleep when they couldn't see or do anything in the dark.
Nope, actually happened before that with the first street lights going up in Amsterdam then London in the 1700's and it was candle based then.
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Athens  (op)
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Mar 22, 2012, 05:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by SSharon View Post
I thought this thread would be about bloated web pages full of ads instead of lightweight and streamlined pages of days past.

What about the rest of the arguments in favor of the internet? Think of all the trees we save by reading our news online instead of dead tree format.
Dead tree format = More Jobs, more trees, and a long term media that can stand the test of time....

Think about those that planted the trees
Think about those that cut the trees
Think about those that transported the trees
Think about those that milled the Trees
Think about those that transported the paper product
Think about those that printed the product
Think about those that transported the end user product
Think about those that sold the end user product
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mduell
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Mar 22, 2012, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Think about those that planted the trees
Think about those that cut the trees
Think about those that transported the trees
Think about those that milled the Trees
Think about those that transported the paper product
Think about those that printed the product
Think about those that transported the end user product
Think about those that sold the end user product
A lot of wasted labor schlepping pulp around.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Mar 22, 2012, 06:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Dead tree format = More Jobs, more trees, and a long term media that can stand the test of time....

Think about those that planted the trees
Think about those that cut the trees
Think about those that transported the trees
Think about those that milled the Trees
Think about those that transported the paper product
Think about those that printed the product
Think about those that transported the end user product
Think about those that sold the end user product
And all to produce wome worthless shitrag full of pointlessly oversensationalised, ill-researched and badly thought out opinions from mostly unqualified, self-important fools.
Most of todays journalists couldn't even write their own names without help from Wikipedia anyway.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
mattyb
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Mar 22, 2012, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
And all to produce wome worthless shitrag full of pointlessly oversensationalised, ill-researched and badly thought out opinions from mostly unqualified, self-important fools.
Most of todays journalists couldn't even write their own names without help from Wikipedia anyway.
There's always Page3, but then its owned by a c**t.
     
turtle777
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Mar 22, 2012, 08:49 PM
 
Geez, I wish cars were never invented. And air-conditioning. And electricity. And airplanes.

Life was so much better back then.

-t
     
abbaZaba
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Mar 22, 2012, 09:22 PM
 
it'd be nice if medical science could be rewound about 100 years
     
besson3c
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Mar 22, 2012, 09:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
Huh?

But doesn't the Internet make information almost indestructible?

If the Library of Alexandria had been online, for instance...

And, at least where I live, there are still bowling alleys, swimming pool complexes, and skating rinks.

There.

After that memorable counterblast, I am tipsy and ready for bed.

Goodnight everybody!



Tomorrow's Friday.

As you were.


Has your hat arrived yet?
     
besson3c
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Mar 22, 2012, 10:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Anyway, I look forward to the day I can download a car.

Well, you can have sex with one.
     
besson3c
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Mar 22, 2012, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Geez, I wish cars were never invented. And air-conditioning. And electricity. And airplanes.

Life was so much better back then.

-t

Did your turtle pellets taste better back then too?
     
boy8cookie
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Mar 22, 2012, 11:22 PM
 
You honestly believe paper is a longer lasting media compared to digital data?
     
Athens  (op)
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Mar 23, 2012, 02:39 AM
 
So much hostility...

And yes paper is longer lasting media compared to digital media. Think a hard drive or a memory stick or CD will last thousands of years. You can read a book with no power any time. Try to access digital media with no power or something sitting on a format 20 years old.
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besson3c
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Mar 23, 2012, 02:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
So much hostility...

And yes paper is longer lasting media compared to digital media. Think a hard drive or a memory stick or CD will last thousands of years. You can read a book with no power any time. Try to access digital media with no power or something sitting on a format 20 years old.

Not unless the paper has been shielded from the sun, moisture, and babies with gamble all over their hands.
     
subego
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Mar 23, 2012, 03:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Electronic data is more vulnerable then people think
This vulnerability is offset by ease of duplication and the low cost of storage space.

All my digital assets have at least two backups (one in the cloud), and I can jam a copy of absolutely everything in less space than a banker's box. Try doing that with a physical library.
( Last edited by subego; Mar 23, 2012 at 04:21 AM. )
     
knifecarrier2
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Mar 23, 2012, 03:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by SSharon View Post
I thought this thread would be about bloated web pages full of ads instead of lightweight and streamlined pages of days past.
THIS. And the fact that I think the majority of the internet is used for porn videos and people getting kicked in the balls. IT reminds me of Idiocracy, the TV show that the moron is watching, actually.
     
subego
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Mar 23, 2012, 05:04 AM
 
@Athens

It's one thing to care about people who get stuck when an industry dries up because it's been replaced. I can't fault you for that.

So, let's say you try to artificially prop up the industry in question. That's great for the people already in the industry, and of course for society, since these people continue being productive.

What happens when these people retire though? Well, they need to be replaced, and they're going to be replaced by people who should, both for the good of themselves and society, be in an industry which isn't drying up.
     
Big Mac
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Mar 23, 2012, 09:06 AM
 
He wants to go back to dial-up. Ahahahahaahaha. I didn't know we'd ever have an actual Luddite around here.

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The Final Dakar
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Mar 23, 2012, 09:10 AM
 
Do you remember a time when cookies came fresh from the oven? Petridge Farm remembers!
Do you remember a time when women couldn't vote and certain folk weren't allowed on golf courses? Petridge Farm remembers!
...
     
osiris
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Mar 23, 2012, 09:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
...
Remember those sweet, warm New England summers? Remember sipping lemonade underneath a shady tree? Remember when you hit that pedestrian with your car at the crosswalk and then just drove away? Pepperidge Farm remembers, but Pepperidge Farm ain't just gonna keep it to Pepperidge Farm's self free of charge. Maybe you go out and buy yourself some of these distinctive Milano cookies, maybe this whole thing disappears.

yeah, the good ole days.
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residentEvil
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Mar 23, 2012, 09:29 AM
 
for a while, i had my phone's ringer the old dial-up noise. amazing how many people didn't know what it was.
     
mduell
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Mar 23, 2012, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
@Athens

It's one thing to care about people who get stuck when an industry dries up because it's been replaced. I can't fault you for that.

So, let's say you try to artificially prop up the industry in question. That's great for the people already in the industry, and of course for society, since these people continue being productive.

What happens when these people retire though? Well, they need to be replaced, and they're going to be replaced by people who should, both for the good of themselves and society, be in an industry which isn't drying up.
Continuing to employ people manufacturing buggy whips, in numbers equal to what they used to be, is not good for society.

That's how you end up at Greece.
     
euphras
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Mar 23, 2012, 10:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This vulnerability is offset by ease of duplication and the low cost of storage space.

All my digital assets have at least two backups (one in the cloud), and I can jam a copy of absolutely everything in less space than a banker's box. Try doing that with a physical library.
I´m convinced, that (unlike you) most individuals don´t have a proper concept of backing up all their digital stuff. And there´s the huge problem of incompatibility between different types of storage media and file types.
Remember the ZIP drives? Almost completely vanished. I have two or three floating around with stuff of my thesis stored on them. It´s de facto gone unless i buy an old digital audio Powermac with a zip drive built in. Anybody used MacDraw in the nineties? I did a lot of graphics using MD. If you don´t own a Mac able to boot a classic OS or able to launch the classic environment (and, of course, a copy of MD ), these files are digital Nirvana. Ooh, wait - there is an OS X payware app, that´s supposed to be able to open them. I tried it just out of curiosity. It works kinda with simple files with not too many connected shapes, but it fails, when it comes to highly complicated files.

And i wouldn´t trust the cloud too much when it comes to safety of your digital portfolio.
( Last edited by euphras; Mar 23, 2012 at 10:59 AM. )


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Athens  (op)
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Mar 23, 2012, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by residentEvil View Post
for a while, i had my phone's ringer the old dial-up noise. amazing how many people didn't know what it was.
I almost picked up a old rotary phone a few weeks ago. Its amazing at what seems to Alien today that was normal growing up.
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sek929
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Mar 23, 2012, 12:57 PM
 
When I was young we still had a rotary phone. Was damn annoying since all the numbers in my area started with "999"

Then we upgraded to a fancy corded push button phone, but for a few months we still had the rotary service. So you'd dial the number on the pad, and then listen to the sound of the old rotary system dialing the number....then the call would go through.
     
Big Mac
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Mar 23, 2012, 01:09 PM
 
Wow, you're like really old and stuff then, sek.

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sek929
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Mar 23, 2012, 01:34 PM
 
Heh, nah, just grew up lower middle class.

I remember when I was moving out to college, since I payed for our Cable Internet at the time, I asked my dad if I should cancel the internet and let him go back to dial-up. He looked appalled at the thought, so I switched it to his name. This was when 50k/sec was considered really fast.

Go back to dial-up now? I'd rather give up a dozen other modern day trappings than do that.
     
The Final Dakar
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Mar 23, 2012, 01:37 PM
 
I imagine you'd rather deal with a rotary phone first.
     
besson3c
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Mar 23, 2012, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
He wants to go back to dial-up. Ahahahahaahaha. I didn't know we'd ever have an actual Luddite around here.

Rick Santorum might be in favor of this too. It would make it tougher to watch porn videos....
     
sek929
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Mar 23, 2012, 01:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I imagine you'd rather deal with a rotary phone first.
100% yes
     
abbaZaba
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Mar 23, 2012, 02:12 PM
 
I remember when I ran a Hotline server and was geeked when my upload bandwidth went ALL the way up to 40KB/sec. man those were the days...
     
osiris
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Mar 23, 2012, 02:19 PM
 
Hotline - now we're talking. I'd be connected for days mooching off you guys. I remember tweaking modem scripts to get a little more out of the modem.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
Athens  (op)
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Mar 23, 2012, 03:16 PM
 
Does any one remember when TV stations actually signed off for the night

KVOS TV 12 sign-off 1985 - YouTube <- always liked watching KVOS because as a border town it did 2 sign offs

KOMO 4 TV sign-off 1986 - YouTube
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Athens  (op)
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Mar 23, 2012, 03:16 PM
 
Oh the hotline days. Was a good system.
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euphras
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Mar 23, 2012, 03:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Does any one remember when TV stations actually signed off for the night
Yes, i remember! Quite a bit of derailling, though.

When i was a small child TV stations did shut down at about half past twelve. National anthem in the background with some cut-scenes of pictorial landscapes of Germany.


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turtle777
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Mar 23, 2012, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Athens View Post
Oh the hotline days. Was a good system.
How old were you back then ?

AFAIR, hotline servers went out of style in the late 90ies. I thougt you were too young to remember this.

-t
     
Athens  (op)
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Mar 23, 2012, 03:56 PM
 
Hotline went out of style in early 2000's

As for me and what I remember....

I was born in 1979 so I got to see the transition between pre digital and the digital world.

My earliest memories are in 1986. My First Mac experience was in 1988-1989

My first Dial Up internet connection at home was dial-up through sprint in 2000
My first broadband internet connection at home was through Rogers in 2001
My first Cell Phone was in 2000/2001
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Spheric Harlot
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Mar 23, 2012, 04:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by euphras View Post
Yes, i remember! Quite a bit of derailling, though.

When i was a small child TV stations did shut down at about half past twelve. National anthem in the background with some cut-scenes of pictorial landscapes of Germany.
Except on the Bavarian Channel, where they prefaced the national anthem with the BAVARIAN anthem ("Gott segne den weiß-blauen Himmel...").
     
Waragainstsleep
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Mar 23, 2012, 04:15 PM
 
I had a rotary phone as a kid. Didn't have an internet connection until college in 99. Broadband was probably 2004. I had a cell phone back in 97 though I think.

I also remember when the TV stations shut down for the night. When I was a kid, we only had four TV stations, and one of those was pretty new.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 23, 2012, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
How old were you back then ?

AFAIR, hotline servers went out of style in the late 90ies. I thougt you were too young to remember this.

-t
Carracho was way cooler, Mac-only, and not overrun with quite as many complete assholes.

I think I shut down my Carracho server in 2003...?
     
knifecarrier2
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Mar 23, 2012, 07:27 PM
 
I remember when the internet started; all the pages were text and the images were rare. It was awesome. It was just so chock full of information, without advertising and bullshit. I wish they'd start an "undernet" where pages had to be under 1 meg and only have certain amounts of data besides text.
     
 
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