[ambush]

Originally posted by Mike Pither:
I am also on a laptop (15 in al powerbook) and I have home and end keys. They are the up down left and right keys.

The left key has home written on it and the right end. If I hold down the fn key home takes me to the top of the page in one click and end the bottom in one click. If I hold down fn with the left or right keys I scroll up or down the page rapidly.

oh! right!

thanks!

I must be blind! Never noticed

[sjk]

Originally posted by ambush:
I must be blind! Never noticed

Bet you'll wonder how you got along without using those keys for window scrolling/paging, etc. Consider yourself uncrippled now.

Btw, page-up/down and home/end keys don't work for scrolling in bookmark windows in OW5 (and Safari, for that matter). Bookmark window keyboard navigation in general could be improved.

[jcb9]

Is anyone else getting really high CPU usage with the beta? Yesterday my Powerbook's fan came on, which I *never* remember it doing be for, and when I checked top, CPU usage was around 80%, and at one point spiked at 117%. Since then, I've noticed high CPU usage pretty regularly - usually between 60%-80%. It doesn't seem to happen when I first open OW up, but when I have 5-6 tabs open, CPU usage soars, even when the browser is just sitting there, not doing anything.

[Mike Pither]

Nope, even with several tabs open it idles at around 8/10%. Incidentally how can you 117% processor usage?

[RevEvs]

Originally posted by Mike Pither:
Nope, even with several tabs open it idles at around 8/10%. Incidentally how can you 117% processor usage?

dual processors = 200%

[Neo.cmg]

Originally posted by RevEvs:
dual processors = 200%

Yes..but he indicated he was on a PowerBook...no dual processor PowerBooks that I'm aware of.

[smaug]

Same thing happens with Safari. Probably one of them has flash or a bunch of animated GIFs.

[GeeYouEye]

I love this version but it's definitely a beta. Bugs: text box problem that everyone else has, the text editing window doesn't always actually open when clicked (and Yahoo mail text boxes for some reason is constantly screwed up in other ways), along with many of the other issues. As a suggestion: have an option to put the tab drawer on the bottom of the window but leave the scrolling vertical; I love the visual tabs, but they take up too much space as is. Putting them on the bottom (at least in my case) would give me more tabs before scrolling.

Looking forward to sneakypeeks and b2.

[jcb9]

Originally posted by smaug:
Same thing happens with Safari. Probably one of them has flash or a bunch of animated GIFs.

I don't know - with the same tabs open, Safari's CPU usage is around 1%. And I have OW set not to play animated GIFs.

Maybe I'll try doing a fresh install of OW again.

[spdemac]

All I want to know is when a new build will be out?

As I am sure OG is making progress and would like to see some of it.

[BZ]

Guys from OG have bee very quiet. I am sure it is getting the next round ready. Lets hope for some stability and some optimization so I can start to move BACK to OW for good.

BZ

[Krypton]

Originally posted by spdemac:
All I want to know is when a new build will be out?

As I am sure OG is making progress and would like to see some of it.

Mmmmmmmmm new build

Unfortunately I don't think they will release until they have made some notable improvements.

[larkost]

Krypton, in the past the guys at Omni have shown that they can make some great strides in a week. I would expect that at this point they have made some real strides.

They have made a call for all the cases where people can get a consistent crash/hang on the "data stream not valid" issue so that they can nail all of the cases. It sounds like they have made progress on that, but it is a multi-threading issue, and those can be bears to solve.

[jcb9]

Originally posted by Mike Pither:
Nope, even with several tabs open it idles at around 8/10%. Incidentally how can you 117% processor usage?

I don't get it either, but I managed to get a screenshot:

[Tim2 at Omni]

Originally posted by jcb9:
I don't get it either, but I managed to get a screenshot:

That's really interesting, considering you're on a single processor machine. I'll talk to you off list and see if we can't get this worked out...

[BZ]

TIM!!! Less posting more coding!

Where is our OW5B2?

BZ

Originally posted by Tim2 at Omni:
That's really interesting, considering you're on a single processor machine. I'll talk to you off list and see if we can't get this worked out...

[Tim2 at Omni]

Originally posted by BZ:
TIM!!! Less posting more coding!

Where is our OW5B2?

BZ

Hehe... I was actually out of town for almost a week. What do you think about that?

Anyway, I'm back, and everyone has been fixing bugs like mad. Beta 2 is looking pretty shiny and smooth!

(edit) -- Oh yeah, I can't tell you when it will be out. Let's just leave it at "soon".

[ratlater]

Originally posted by Tim2 at Omni:
Hehe... I was actually out of town for almost a week. What do you think about that?

Anyway, I'm back, and everyone has been fixing bugs like mad. Beta 2 is looking pretty shiny and smooth!

(edit) -- Oh yeah, I can't tell you when it will be out. Let's just leave it at "soon".

Just seeing 'Beta 2' and 'soon' makes me happy.

-matt

[Catfish_Man]

Just thought I'd post this, although I haven't figured exactly what's going on. It seems as though after a while of using OW5 my system starts behaving oddly. The main symptom I've noticed is that the dock is very difficult to get "unhidden", it won't pop up. When it does, the tooltip with the app name often gets stuck on one app for a while. I'm not sure this is Omniweb, but I haven't seen it since I stopped using the beta for a while. I'm using 10.3.2 on a dual 867 G4. Anyone else seeing this?

[MadBrowser]

I remember hearing soon in regards to OW5 when we were talking in November. :-)

I know that for my impatient ass, 'soon' will never be soon enough.

I can't wait... which is a little sad since this is a Web browser...

Keep up the good work!

[larkost]

On the 117% issue: If you are only seeing spikes, this is fairly normal for two reasons: first off top is not an exact science, it is useful for getting quick numbers, but don't pay too much attention to it.

The second thing is that top looks at load. If you call more complex (but atomic) operations you can stack more load on the the processor than it can get done inside a single window. This is how you can run loads larger than one. It can also cause > 100% spikes on individual threads.

But you should never see a constant > 100% on any thread. You could theoretically engineer something to do it, but most of the schedulers out there are going to start penalizing you to keep it from happening.

[BZ]

There was a time, way-back-when, OmniGroup used to put out SPs almost daily. It was a great thing to wake up in the morning, download teh SP and start to browsing.

I thought all of the feedback was a good thing, but maybe OG just doesn't want to release in that type of cycle anymore.

Personally, once a week would be great to keep up interest and feedback.

BZ

Originally posted by MadBrowser:
I remember hearing soon in regards to OW5 when we were talking in November. :-)

I know that for my impatient ass, 'soon' will never be soon enough.

I can't wait... which is a little sad since this is a Web browser...

Keep up the good work!

[cpac]

Originally posted by BZ:
I thought all of the feedback was a good thing, but maybe OG just doesn't want to release in that type of cycle anymore.

I think more than anything it was a signal to noise ration decision.

No matter how many warnings and "under construction" signs they put up, you'd always see posts here that said things like "this crashes and seems slow so I'll never use Omniweb" I can only imagine that the crash reports they got back were also too numerous and vague to be truly useful.

I loved getting the sp's every morning too, but if this process helps them release better software more quickly, then I'm all for it.

(but I do with I'd caught Tim's post before he edited out the beta 2 release date)

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally posted by Tim2 at Omni:
Hehe... I was actually out of town for almost a week. What do you think about that?

Anyway, I'm back, and everyone has been fixing bugs like mad. Beta 2 is looking pretty shiny and smooth!

(edit) -- Oh yeah, I can't tell you when it will be out. Let's just leave it at "soon".

Well the beta 1 license expires 3/3 so it's going to be before that.

[cpac]

Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
Well the beta 1 license expires 3/3 so it's going to be before that.

Well i thought when they announced that the beta would be released 2/2 that they also said they hoped to have 5.0 final done by early march - can't seem to find that on the announcement page now though, so maybe I was smoking something funny?

regardless, i would hope they aren't more than a month (or at this point, a few weeks) away from a 5.0 final - especially given how far along 5.0b1 seems to be, (and then maybe another month from a 5.01 or 5.1 with updated webcore...)

[MrBS]

Originally posted by Tim2 at Omni:

Originally posted by mrbs:
Why'd the reload get reversed?

Good eye. That was an error. It's been fixed internally.

::looks at watch::

::looks at backwards refresh button::

::taps watch::

~BS

ps. okay that quote was from the other huge omni thread, but still, reloading goes back a bit and takes a running start at the page. You don't go forward a bit then come back to where you were.

[MadBrowser]

No Valentine's Day gift from the Omni Group?

:-)

[Catfish_Man]

More on weird problems around the same time as launching Omniweb: the last time I launched it, loginwindow crashed. I have a crash log, but there's nothing in there that seems terribly Omniweb related, so it may just be a weird coincidence.

[Nebagakid]

Originally posted by MadBrowser:
No Valentine's Day gift from the Omni Group?

:-)

Hey, as long as it can load cube.ign.com with out any fault, I enjoy using it!

[Deestar]

So Omni guys, when can we expect Beta 2? Beta 1 is nearly 2 weeks old and I'm eager to see the progress you guys have made.

[Krypton]

Originally posted by Deestar:
So Omni guys, when can we expect Beta 2? Beta 1 is nearly 2 weeks old and I'm eager to see the progress you guys have made.

Hmm I wonder if we'll see OW5b2 or 2.5Ghz PowerMacs first?

[sjk]

Hopefully there's still something more interesting to discuss than the ridiculously redundant "when's the next OW5 beta?" topic. I don't know anyone who likes being "pestered" so much about anything. Hell, I bet OW5 programmers get asked less often by their managers!

Obviously OG will share any news about it when they're ready, as they've always done. No sooner, no later.

[Phoenix1701]

Hey Rick, et al.,
Do you folks have any plans to support P3P? Netscape and IE support it, and it could be a very valuable feature for users if done right (that is, not the way IE or Netscape has done it). For those wondering what P3P is, it stands for Platform for Privacy Preferences. Any P3P-enabled site (of which there are many large ones) posts an XML file on the server that contains information about their privacy policy in a format that can be read by the browser, compared against the user's privacy settings, and parsed into a human-readable form that isn't legal mumbo-jumbo. This not only makes privacy policies much easier to find and read, for those who are interested in doing so, but allows the browser to handle decisions about whether to allow or block cookies, etc., based on things like whether the site claims it will use personal information about you, sell it to third parties, etc. OmniWeb could have a little P3P icon appear in the bottom right whenever a policy is available, like the cookie and autofill icons currently do, and tie P3P into the ad blocking and cookie preferences in a transparent way (I suspect Rick knows how that might be best accomplished, so I'll leave that to him). Netscape and IE don't allow you to view the privacy policy unless a cookie has been blocked because of your settings, so it's really not very helpful unless someone's doing something nasty. I think OmniWeb could take it a few steps further.
Comments?

[Rickster]

We haven't very seriously looked at P3P as it's still sort of an emerging technology, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did something like that in a future release.

[MrBS]

A nice thing with OW 5 and these forums is that hitting enter will go to the next page (it finds the link by the text being "�"). It would be really nice if that behavior was extended to take advantage of the rel and rev link attributes, and if they made shift-enter do the reverse. That way it would be available on all sites that used those attributes to specify the relationships between their pages.

~BS

(or if you wanted to get really crazy and there were no rel=next links and no � links you could try to take a guess at the next page, like if the current page ends in a filename with a number+extension just increment the number)

[Mike S.]

Originally posted by Phoenix1701:
... allows the browser to handle decisions about whether to allow or block cookies, etc., based on things like whether the site claims it will use personal information about you, sell it to third parties, etc.

People are just going to trust the claims made by a file?

Trust No One.

My settings say accept cookies from originating domain only (just so I can get in without hassle) and delete them when I quit (which is daily) except for a select few sites.

[NeXTLoop]

Just saw Beta 2 on VersionTracker...

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/3253

[Krypton]

Beta 2 seems much snappier and less buggy, although it insists on the tab drawer going on the left when I specify the right.

[BZ]

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh... I got OMNIWEB... YEAH!!

(gotta go home now to download and try).

BZ

[Krypton]

This is seriously spiffy:

� Graphics placeholders (while they're loading) are more subtle and take up less room.

� Tabs now have little tool tips with the web site name and url (I like this a lot).

� Downloading works!

� As fast as Safari! (well it seems that way, but possibly not)

� Stop now works too!

I could enjoy using this now

Cons:

� Cancel downloading, and Stuffit tries to open the partial download.

[CJM]

very nice. performance seems improved and i'm coming around to the new tabbing system.

any idea when the TITLE tag is going to be supported for links? I know that this just recently started working correctly in safari, so maybe it has something to do with the updated version of webcore ??

[oVeRmInD911]

Good work, Omni Group. Beta 2 is much more solid than beta 1.

Keep it up.

[gorickey]

Whoa, OW 5 b2 is awesome thus far...amazing differences from b1 for darn sure! Great work, keep it up!

[NeXTLoop]

Security and Ad Blocking preferences don't seem to be sticking.

[OAW]

OW5 b2 is a significant improvement over b1! I do have a few suggestions ...

1. Purely cosmetic I know, but the color in the Reload button appears to be a different shade of blue than the Back and Forward buttons.

2. The ability to Command + Click a folder should work like Safari. It should close all the open tabs first and then load the new tabs. It is really annoying to have to select "Close All Tabs" yourself first just so you don't have new tabs spawning ad infinitum. Especially when you can't get to this command unless you click on empty space in the tab drawer ... which is next to impossible if you have more than 5 or 6 tabs open in icon view. At a minimum, this should be a preference to either use the existing behavior or close all open tabs first.

3. Lock icon doesn't display on HTTPS sites unless the site is loading.

4. Whatever happened to Minimum Font Size? I simply can't find it in the Preferences.

OAW

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally posted by OAW:

4. Whatever happened to Minimum Font Size? I simply can't find it in the Preferences.

OAW [/B]

Appearance > Font Style > Custom

[JangoFett124]

Suggestions :

1. When autofilling addressbar I would like it to automatically select the most viewed page from the list, rather than starting at the top (with just what I typed. This makes going to my favorites so much quicker without having to go to the bookmarks menu.
2. The tab drawer auto-opens when tabs are added - it should autoclose when there's only one left.
3. Maybe it's me, but the reload button appears backwards.

[Mike S.]

Originally posted by Krypton:
� As fast as Safari! (well it seems that way, but possibly not)

Like hell it is, this has go to be the slowest version of OmniWeb in the history of OmniWeb (on OS X anyways)

I've been keeping a performance diary to track progress and if this isn't a regression I don't know what is.

I linked to an image of my previous test earlier in the thread so here's the updated data (time in seconds):

OW 4.5: 57.15

OW 5 b1: 63.41

OW 5 b2: 105.69

Good god, I think iCab would be faster.

I'm probably going to try blowing out everything OmniWeb 5 related and downloading from scratch because there was some serious weirdness going on.

Preferences wouldn't work until I tossed the OW 5 folder in Application Support and then the settings it reverted too were odd (3.00 default text zoom, do not enable javascript/ java or accept cookies, default UID was Internet Explorer 4.1, etc..)

I hope this is some local funk. I've been beta testing another app and the dev was neglecting 10.2 during development which resulted in odd things he didn't notice until he started testing against 10.2. I hope this isn't the case here.

I fully realize this is in development and all so I'm not holding any anger or disappointment but these performance figures are abysmal and I sure hope they only get faster.

[pliny]

I've only been using it for a bit but this release seems a pretty substantial improvement over beta one. It is faster, more responsive, and much more stable.

Very nice work.




edit:

[Tim2 at Omni]

Originally posted by Mike S.:
Like hell it is, this has go to be the slowest version of OmniWeb in the history of OmniWeb (on OS X anyways)

I've been keeping a performance diary to track progress and if this isn't a regression I don't know what is.

I linked to an image of my previous test earlier in the thread so here's the updated data (time in seconds):

OW 4.5: 57.15

OW 5 b1: 63.41

OW 5 b2: 105.69

I would really like to know how you're carrying out your tests. OmniWeb 5 beta 2 is significantly faster than beta 1 and 4.5 on every machine I've tested it on.

Are you loading pages from your local disk, or from the network? Network speeds (esp. outside your LAN) can be so variable from moment to moment that testing a browser's performance by loading a remote page is a complete waste of time.

Try backing up and deleting your preferences (~/Library/Preferences/com.omnigroup.OmniWeb5.plist). Then try clearing out ~/Library/Application Support/OmniWeb 5. Then delete ~/Library/Caches/com.omnigroup.OmniWeb5.

Is OW5 still so incredibly slow?

(edit): Please keep in mind, Mike, that you have the opportunity to help make OmniWeb 5 the fastest browser around, which can only benefit you. When you post about slowness, it would help to include details like the exact page you're trying to load, your machine configuration, OS release, etc. Also, if you know how to run the "sample" terminal command, you can send its output to our support guys and we will absolutely investigate.