[Zimphire]

Biblical guidelines for Torture for Christians?

I am guessing the torture is reading the posts of all the religious hating zealots going on and on and hissing and honking about things they really don't understand.

Worse than chinese water torture.

[undotwa]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Uh, religions did not do these things. Man did.

You have to take the Bible as a whole. Not separate text.

God made provisions of war. If you don't understand what I mean when I say that, you need to go read the Bible a bit more.

Zimphire, thou shalt not kill is true, however you look at it in the Bible. Man should not kill another man. The act of killing is always evil. What changes however in the State of War, is (like I said in a previous post), the culprability of a man. Was it due to defense, or done in the pretext of a just war, was he pressured etc.

[undotwa]

Originally posted by OH-N'omac:
But you've established that man can corrupt the idea of god, and abuse religion...so that leaves the parts of the bible that are considered god itself...the ten commandments and the words of christ (Something about doing unto others as you would have them do unto you). Neither said Thou shalt not kill...except when (blah blah blah). All other text is man inspired by god to write, the same way other men inspired by god have waged holy wars and crusades and tortured and murdered.

So god says "don't kill anybody", man says "except when (blah, blah, blah)"....and everytime history looks back at those (blah blah blah) conditions, there's always an admission of "Whoops, we goofed...ignore the inquisition"....maybe it's time to give this religion thing a rest if man is so good at fowling up the intent?

The Bible is written by man, inspired by the Holy Spirit (in Christian doctrine), these men were Catholics, practicising and preaching the Catholic faith.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by undotwa:
Zimphire, thou shalt not kill is true, however you look at it in the Bible. Man should not kill another man. The act of killing is always evil. What changes however in the State of War, is (like I said in a previous post), the culprability of a man. Was it due to defense, or done in the pretext of a just war, was he pressured etc.

And I agree 100%. Provisions of war doesn't make killing any less evil.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by undotwa:
The Bible is written by man, inspired by the Holy Spirit (in Christian doctrine), these men were Catholics, practicising and preaching the Catholic faith.

Actually, they were just Christians. The "Catholicism" didn't come on till later on.

That is why there are Catholic practices that simply aren't covered in the Bible.

Catholicism is just another form of Christianity.

[undotwa]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Actually, they were just Christians. The "Catholicism" didn't come on till later on.

That is why there are Catholic practices that simply aren't covered in the Bible.

Catholicism is just another form of Christianity.

Oh dear, I just posted flame bait .

I'll leave it at this.

From Pentecost, was Catholicism, and the Church. It was the Apostles of Christ who were given the Keys of Heaven, and the power to make doctrine, and to administer the sacraments.

Pursue not this discussion...

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Torture is acceptable under certain circumstances. 'Nuff said.

no, torture is never acceptable, under no circumstances. period. especially not is a "civilized country".

[Developer]

Originally posted by undotwa:
You don't make judgements about a religion based upon what adherents of that religion do.

I sure do.

If a religion has doctrine (Like Christianity and Islam), you look at the doctrine to find your answers, not the actions of those who claim to be Christian.

Then let's look at the "doctrine":

Originally posted by Zimphire:
The old testament wars aren't the last God lead wars that will happen. Many have happened since, many more will happen.

Read the red text I posted above.

Doesn't sound like a peaceful religion to me.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by PacHead:
Torture is acceptable under certain circumstances. 'Nuff said.

Only in PacHeadless's world of violence, stupidity and ignorance.

[Logic]

Originally posted by undotwa:
You don't make judgements about a religion based upon what adherents of that religion do. If a religion has doctrine (Like Christianity and Islam), you look at the doctrine to find your answers, not the actions of those who claim to be Christian.

[Chris O'Brien]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I am guessing the torture is reading the posts of all the religious hating zealots going on and on and hissing and honking about things they really don't understand.[/B]

I presume that you meant 'religion hating zealots' otherwise it would be 'religious, hating zealots', in which case you would be talking about yourself

I think torture is wrong, although there are, of course, grey areas where the torture of some murdering bastard to get needed information would benefit many people. There's too much black and white, right or wrong views, it seems. Sometimes things just need to be done. It's a question of looking at the bigger picture I think.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

[phoenixboy70]

Originally posted by undotwa:
You don't make judgements about a religion based upon what adherents of that religion do. If a religion has doctrine (Like Christianity and Islam), you look at the doctrine to find your answers, not the actions of those who claim to be Christian.

nope. not buying it. interesting tough that we are discussing this over and over again (in various different threads). far too many christians are total ignorant motherfu<kers and a55holes for these things to be mere coincidences. btw, how can something that you believe in so deeply not effect the way you think and do things on a very essential level.

i agree that, on paper, christianity appears to be a rather benevolent and peaceful religion, but its followers either don�t seem to understand its basic teachings and principles, or they are full of **** from the get go. but, no matter what, something doesn't seem to be working the way it is suppose to here (same goes for many muslims etc. as well, btw).

truth be told, that capitalist atheists (aka Libertarians) are usually equally, if not even bigger, pieces of sh1t. so maybe religion is not to blame in its entirety, - but nevertheless, it seems to attract and "willingly form" the cowardice, backstabbing and greedy into the worthless sycophants we see today.

maybe in the future scientist will be able to conduct research into what causes people to be total fu<kwits, and whether religion plays a significant role in this or not. my "hunch" is, it does. until then, i guess we have to listen to people's half witted justifications like "religion can't do that" and "(evil) man or teh devil" is to blame. afaic, i don't give two sh1ts and a fu<k what the root cause is. i treat them all the same.

/excuse the polemics
//all IMHO, of course

[turtle777]

Still not locked ?

It's hard to believe the mod's missed it.
That leaves only one conclusion...

-t

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Developer:
Doesn't sound like a peaceful religion to me.

It teaches peace. But it is also realistic.

For example lots of eastern self defense teachings teaches you not to attack. But to defend.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Still not locked ?

It's hard to believe the mod's missed it.
That leaves only one conclusion...

-t

Yeah specially since we were told such topics were banned.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yeah specially since we were told such topics were banned.

Well, it's a bit idealistic to think that mod's have no double-standard.
On the other hand, sometimes here in the Lounge,it's TOO abvious that they indeed DO...

-t

[PacHead]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Only in PacHeadless's world of violence, stupidity and ignorance.

Nope, I am a very peaceful person. Torture is acceptable against exactly certain people/groups who are primitive, violent and behave as subhumans. Chickens have more rights than these.

[PacHead]

I also find it pretty strange that certain people constantly criticize me for even commenting on a topic that has to do with politics etc., while other people constantly start threads about this in the lounge.

[KrazyEvilGoat]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

How do you know God doesn't have people like that? The NT speaks of war, and wars to happen in the future. And even speaks about God's army.

You should really read the Bible sometime.

God will always favor Abraham's decedents. It's a pact he made with them. God favors those who put his trust in him back then, and now as well. Just because things aren't written down in a book anymore doesn't mean miracles and God's people don't exist. [/B]

Can we stick to discussion and avoid petty insults?

You're linking these that have nothing to do with each other. Just because it says there will be wars and that god has an army does not mean god army will be fighting wars. Specifically it was reassuring christians that while there will be wars, and pestilences, that God has not forsaken them.

That pact was also broken into tiny little pieces. The old covenant was broken and a new one form, one with 'spiritual' israel. Christians are now God's people.

As for miracles.. I see no evidence in todays world of miracles performed by God.. and the only other miracles were performed by jesus and his disciples.

[wolfen]

Somehow "What would Jesus do?" and "Hand me the pliers" seem incompatible to me in this context.

[OH-N'omac]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
It teaches peace. But it is also realistic. For example lots of eastern self defense teachings teaches you not to attack. But to defend.

Ah yes...the inquisition, defense.

The crusades, defense.

Biblical justification for slavery, defense.

Manifest destiny, defense.

Premption in Iraq, defense.

The KKK's war for christian values, defense.

Abortion clinic bombings, defense.

How could I have missed it? These must have all been god's people defending themselves.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by KrazyEvilGoat:
Can we stick to discussion and avoid petty insults?

Petty insults? Where was the insult in my post?

You're linking these that have nothing to do with each other. Just because it says there will be wars and that god has an army does not mean god army will be fighting wars.

Read Revelations. It indeed does say that.

That pact was also broken into tiny little pieces. The old covenant was broken and a new one form, one with 'spiritual' israel. Christians are now God's people.

No, that covenant was not broken. God didn't say "You will have these things till the Messiah returns" Just look now how both sides (the arabs and jews) are both doing well for themselves.

As for miracles.. I see no evidence in todays world of miracles performed by God.

I've seen quite a few. Maybe you aren't looking in the right places.

and the only other miracles were performed by jesus and his disciples.

Read what Jesus had to say about man performing miracles just like he did.

Again, the people who come down on Christianity need to learn a bit more about it before they go on ranting sprees.

That above was not a petty insult. That is just me speaking the truth.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by OH-N'omac:
Ah yes...the inquisition, defense.
<snipped silliness>

Are you going to ignore everything that was said about these things in this thread? These are the works of man. Not God. Your beef is with man.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Still not locked ?

It's hard to believe the mod's missed it.
That leaves only one conclusion...

-t

That we all have real jobs and other real life commitments that prevent us from spending every waking moment patrolling the forums for flame-bait?