[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Indecision08 

Obama is a Christian. Where/when has McCain ever publicly acknowledged that? Did he include it in the refutation of the suggestion that Obama was an Arab?

Did the person in question call him a Muslim? Why would McCain refute something that wasn't asserted?

Obama didn't used to be a Muslim. What do you base that assertion on?

The fact he was raised as a Muslim. He was registered at his school as a Muslim and had a Muslim father.

Of course, none of that means that Obama is a Muslim now or doesn't truly believe in his current chosen faith. Lot's of people are raised in and practiced a certain religion in their youth only to later adopt some other faith when they are older and are better able to make choices for themselves. Not everyone stays in the religion their parents pick for them.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Yes, it was. It says a lot about those that support BO.

Obama Youth - Junior Fraternity Regiment
I believe someone else, not BO, is call the "alpha omega"

I'm certain members of the KKK support McCain and Palin. What does that say about supporters of McCain? See why your logic is flawed?

Just because some nutcase supports a candidate does not mean that the candidate or his supporters agree with the extremist positions of the nutcase.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

I'm certain members of the KKK support McCain and Palin. What does that say about supporters of McCain? See why your logic is flawed?

Just because some nutcase supports a candidate does not mean that the candidate or his supporters agree with the extremist positions of the nutcase.

McCain in not left enough for the KKK, nor do they think he is the Messiah.

[Indecision08]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Did the person in question call him a Muslim? Why would McCain refute something that wasn't asserted?
The fact he was raised as a Muslim. He was registered at his school as a Muslim and had a Muslim father.

Of course, none of that means that Obama is a Muslim now or doesn't truly believe in his current chosen faith. Lot's of people are raised in and practiced a certain religion in their youth only to later adopt some other faith when they are older and are better able to make choices for themselves. Not everyone stays in the religion their parents pick for them.

Because Arab is not the opposite of decent or citizen so a bit of information about his religion would also have been helpful if he really wanted to address the point made in the question and more general concerns he must surely be aware exist among his supporters about the background of his opponent.

That wasn't the first opportunity he had either. When has the McCain campaign or McCain himself ever unequivocally stated that Obama was a Christian? Serious. Do you have an example because I can't find one.

This was their reaction after the ABC interview:

“Barack Obama’s suggestion that the McCain campaign is somehow trying to paint him with ‘Muslim connections’ is false, and a cynical attempt to play the victim. We’ve seen Barack Obama use these tactics before — and they’re just as offensive and wrong as they were the last time.
“Barack Obama said he was different. He promised a new politics of hope and change. Is this what that politics looks like?
“This week, Governor Palin said there are two kinds of candidates: those who use change to promote their careers, and those who use their careers to promote change. With each new cynical attack, it’s increasingly clear which kind Senator Obama really is.” –McCain-Palin campaign manager Rick Davis

Obama's father left when he was 2. What does he have to do with Obama's own religion? The registration form was filled out by his Indonesian stepfather and reflected his religion, not Obama's. The schools Obama attended in Indonesia between the age of 6 and 10 for which these registration forms were fllled out were public schools and a Catholic school. At the schools he received both Koran and Bible classes for religious instruction. His mother isn't even mentioned on the form and neither is her religion.
He has spoken and written about her approach to religion and education.

I was not raised in a particularly religious household, as undoubtedly many in the audience were. My father, who returned to Kenya when I was just two, was born Muslim but as an adult became an atheist. My mother, whose parents were non-practicing Baptists and Methodists, was probably one of the most spiritual and kindest people I've ever known, but grew up with a healthy skepticism of organized religion herself. As a consequence, so did I.

For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness...This isn't to say that she provided me with no religious instruction. In her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites. But I was made to understand that such religious samplings required no sustained commitment on my part. Religion was an expression of human culture, she would explain, not its wellspring, just one of the many ways — and not necessarily the best way — that man attempted to control the unknowable and understand the deeper truths about our lives. In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well.
[...]my mother was less concerned with me learning the catechism or puzzling out the meaning of the muezzin's call to evening prayer than she was with whether I was properly learning my multiplication tables.

The reality is that Obama was raised in a multi-cultural family with no particualr emphasis on one particular religion even when he lived in Indonesia. He wasn't raised a Muslim, nor did he become one.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Indecision08 

Because Arab is not the opposite of decent or citizen so a bit of information about his religion would also have been helpful if he really wanted to address the point made in the question and more general concerns he must surely be aware exist among his supporters about the background of his opponent.

Actually, Arab implies that they are someone who is foreign to the country and not the same as other Americans. Being a "citizen" is the only thing that is required to debunk that. Is it the case that there are no non-muslim arabs?

That wasn't the first opportunity he had either. When has the McCain campaign or McCain himself ever unequivocally stated that Obama was a Christian? Serious. Do you have an example because I can't find one.

He's never unequivocally stated that Obama was a man or a human being either. Given that he's also never stated that he wasn't, it's kind of irrelevant. That is unless you expect the candidates to refute every single untrue smear against their opponent, in which case I'm still waiting for Obama to explain that John McCain and "deregulation" isn't why the subprime mortgage market melted down.

This was their reaction after the ABC interview

Their reaction to what?

Obama's father left when he was 2. What does he have to do with Obama's own religion? The registration form was filled out by his Indonesian stepfather and reflected his religion, not Obama's. The schools Obama attended in Indonesia between the age of 6 and 10 for which these registration forms were fllled out were public schools and a Catholic school. At the schools he received both Koran and Bible classes for religious instruction. His mother isn't even mentioned on the form and neither is her religion.

For the most part, children are taught and raised in the religion of their parents choice. They don't really have a choice in what religion that are. People can choose to continue with that faith or choose a new one for themselves. Obama chose a new one which is his right. I'm not saying that Obama was a "practicing" muslim or believed deeply in the faith. It's just that all evidence points to Obama practicing the Muslim faith in his youth, for possibly no other reason than it was how he was raised.

The reality is that Obama was raised in a multi-cultural family with no particualr emphasis on one particular religion even when he lived in Indonesia. He wasn't raised a Muslim, nor did he become one.

Most of the evidence which can be independently verified doesn't support that claim. The evidence points to Obama's primary religion being Islam. I'm pretty sure his parent(s) who filled out the form which specifically shows that being the case were not lying way back then. They had no real reason to. Obama NOW on the other hand....

[Indecision08]

If McCain really wanted to address the issue raised by that question he would have mentioned religion. It is beyond naive to think the question didn't include the suggestion that Obama was a Muslim.

Gayle Quinnell, the woman asking the Arab question, admitted that it was her concern that Obama was a dangerous Muslim in an interview right after the rally. Reporters confronted her based on their suspicion that it was the reason why she had asked the question and she confirmed it. She was corrected and told that Obama was a Christian by reporters but not on-stage, on-air by McCain. If he really wanted to give the question serious consideration he should have confronted her more seriously himself. For a man who can talk about Obama for hours and who approves ads that contain little else, those 2 seconds he devoted to that question certainly paled in comparison for me.

Furthermore the woman claims to volunteer at a McCain campaign office. She said that she receives such information about Obama there and uses the office herself to distribute such falsehoods as the claim that he is a Muslim terrorist. This is a woman who apparently speaks on his behalf from an office he set up to spread his message. This goes beyond Farrakhan or Hagee. More like Arnold Conrad. Don't you think McCain has an obligation to address that?

During the ABC interview Obama told again about a persistent campaign to sow doubt about his religion. He said that people aligned with McCain have continued to spread the claim that Obama is a Muslim. The text I quoted was all the McCain campaign could bring themselves to say in reply. They feign outrage over the suggestion but don't dispel myths about his religion outright to make the whole issue go away.

You seriously want to equate having your religion represented honestly and not being accused of being a Muslim terrorist with a disagreement over deregulation policy?

I already addressed the issue of the school registration. Staff at the schools, who worked there when Obama attended, have confirmed that it is customary to list the religion of the father. Those forms tell you nothing about the religion of Obama himself or about the way he was raised.

While there is no argument that he received instruction about the Koran -for two hours a week- and that he is familiar with Islam because of living in Indonesia it is simply not true that he was a Muslim at some point. You even said that he didn't really practice or believe yet you continue to assert things for which there really isn't any conclusive evidence.
There is evidence, for example, that he said Catholic prayers and received Bible instruction in school also. If they really wanted to raise him as a Muslim why did they enroll him in a Catholic school? Why not a school that included more time for Koran classes and no biblical instruction? He spent more time in the Catholic school than in any other school while in Indonesia yet you claim that Islam was his primary religion. Based on what?
Why did his mother send him back to Hawaii before she returned there herself? Why did she introduce him to all those other beliefs I mentioned earlier? The reasons were clearly stated. She didn't want to raise him exclusively in any one particular religion. As I quoted, she wanted to give him a working knowledge of major world religions but didn't want to raise him in a religious way.

There really is no point talking to you, is there? My claim was accurate, Obama was raised in a multi-cultural family with no particular emphasis on one particular religion even when he lived in Indonesia. He wasn't raised a Muslim, nor did he become one.

[The Crook]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Actually, Arab implies that they are someone who is foreign to the country and not the same as other Americans.

"Arab" is an ethnicity.

As such, "Arabs" can be citizens of this country. She may have meant "foreign to this country," but it's no excuse.

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

It's just that all evidence points to Obama practicing the Muslim faith in his youth, for possibly no other reason than it was how he was raised.

Zero evidence exists that Obama is Muslim or that he was *ever* Muslim.

He was raised by an confirmed atheist, and his Kansas grandparents were Christian. He self-identifies as Christian and attended Trinity UCC for a very long time. You're repeating hateful lies in order to smear Obama.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by The Crook 

You're repeating hateful lies in order to smear Obama.

Why is being a Muslim a "smear"? Why would it be hateful to identify someone as a Muslim?

I'm not commenting on whatever faith Obama does hold, just I'm curious why I see this 'argument' so often, usually from people on the left. Seriously, please explain. Even if it's a blatant lie to say Obama is a Muslim, please explain all this 'hateful' and 'smear' stuff.

If people were saying Obama is an atheist, is it a hateful lie and a 'smear' to call someone an atheist?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by The Crook 

Zero evidence exists that Obama is Muslim or that he was *ever* Muslim.

Zero evidence that Obama is Muslim.
Lots of evidence Obama was Muslim.

He was raised by an confirmed atheist...

Both his father and stepfather at times in their lives were Muslims when Obama lived with them. He was enrolled in his school as a boy in Indonesia as a Muslim. That's not really under debate. Unless his parents are claimed to be liars.

and his Kansas grandparents were Christian. He self-identifies as Christian and attended Trinity UCC for a very long time. You're repeating hateful lies in order to smear Obama.

As I said, there's no evidence that Obama is currently a Muslim and no reason to believe he is. There is a lot of evidence which would lead someone who wasn't just taking Obama's word for it (which isn't worth much given how many former friends and associations he's had to "throw under the bus" to maintain an air of electability) that he used to be.

Besides, as it's already been pointed out, it's pretty bigoted to claim that it's a "smear" to be called a muslim. Islam is a fine and respectable religion. You don't find interviewers trying to set up "gotchas" on prime time to try and repudiate people who are muslim the way they have with Christians like Sarah Palin.

[ebuddy]

Oh the hate. McCain should've said Obama is change we can believe in. McCain should've endorsed Obama's campaign. That would've proven McCain is fair.

He took the friggin' mic away from the lady people. Move along.

[Chongo]

The "spread the wealth around" response is very telling.

[PB2K]

obama / osama..

to add a new dimension to the presidential elections

[The Crook]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

He was enrolled in his school as a boy in Indonesia as a Muslim.

You might want to tell that to Wikipedia.

[OldManMac]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/op...gewanted=print

Points out the fallacy of labeling Obama as a terrorist, and also points out the hypocrisy of Sara Palin, and many of you, in attempting to make a connection.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by The Crook 

You might want to tell that to Wikipedia.

Why? Are they considered experts on something?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/op...gewanted=print

Points out the fallacy of labeling Obama as a terrorist, and also points out the hypocrisy of Sara Palin, and many of you, in attempting to make a connection.

No one here labeled Obama a terrorist. A left-wing blog that disputes such a label which isn't supported by McCain and isn't mainstream isn't really necessary I don't think.

I'm guessing someone is trying to confuse the issue. Sort of like Obama trying to shift the focus from his long-time chosen peers as an adult to what happened when he was 8 years old. It couldn't be more transparent if it were made of glass.

[hyteckit]

I was enrolled in a Catholic School as a Catholic in elementary school. I also attended sunday school. No, I'm not a Catholic, nor was I a Catholic.

[Gee-Man]